Virginia Tech Massacre and Campus Security

"Mr. Y" expounded:

Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways,
the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him.

Who cares about his fear? Another person with a gun could have
stopped him. Doesn't matter if he feared it or not.
--
Ann
e-mail address is not checked

Kane wrote:



It only takes ONE.

But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair
and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID


The obvious answer is the one we "gun nuts" know perfectly well by
statistical data analysis works. An armed citizenry reduces the 'urge'
when the person knows he or she can be shot down by a legally armed
citizen, and two, that care about that or not, the murderous rampage
will stop when the murderer is down and or dead.

So your answer is more guns. With so many guns in the US why is the
USA not the safest country in the world.



No one could do it.

Imagine if that janitor you heard talk about being shot at about five
times, as he had to run away, had himself been properly armed, and
fired back.

Do a ng google on talk.politics.guns searching for "Tacoma Mall." The
armed citizen was hit even BEFORE he could get a shot off, but the
perp ran and hid and STOPPED SHOOTING PEOPLE.

It is wonderfuly sobering to the crazy to get return fire. They may
decide later to suicide by their own hand, but there is something
about someone ELSE shooting at you that tends to slow the scenario
down considerably.

A couple of school shootings in England, under similar circumstances,
that is that it was illegal to carry on schoolgrounds, ended with a
paroxism of gun control.

How's the UK doing today?

MORE GUN RELATED AND OVERALL VIOLENT CRIME than ever before.


Gun deaths per 100,000

United States 14.24

England and Wales 0.41



This relatively peaceful nation, one of those with the LOWEST gun
crime in the world, how has among the highest violent crime rates in
the civilized, or Western, world.

Thinking is the answer, not lockstep gun ban drooling.

What the university missed was sending out ARMED patrols to monitor
the other buildings quickly after the first incident of a killing.

But like cops everywhere, when the action starts, they tend to "clump"
at the site, then hang around getting their "hit" of adrenaline,
yakkin' it up, instead of going back out immediately on patrol, or
never coming to the incident site in the first place.

In this time and place, where both criminals and terrorists KNOW how
to create a situation to draw the cops off their primary target, or
their secondary one for that matter, having ANY slowdown in patrols
and changes in distribution of LE staff is totally stupid.

My we are slow to learn, eh?

Kane

Rob wrote:

Kane wrote:

It only takes ONE.

But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair
and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID

He didn't buy it at a gun fair (whatever that is). He had ID, he had
no police record and the buy was legal under the rules. If one has no
police record and is willing to wait the required number of days then
you can buy a gun. A safe would not help in the case where a person
wants to use his own gun.

The problem here is that none of the dots were connected. Some people
had one piece of evidence that he was mentally deranged, but no one
person knew all of the problem

Signs of derangement

1) Had an imaginary girl friend
2) Stalked some women
3) Wrote such violent plays that the female professor of the writing
class asked that he be removed from her class
4) Threatened suicide

And no one got him help until it was too late.

On Apr 17, 10:51 am, "Angelocracy.com"
wrote:
At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the
door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no
way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a
college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the
school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at
that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same
should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a
panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also
security cameras.

I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to
reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text
messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental
health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million
other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious:

CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!!

Jeremy

"Jeremy" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 17, 10:51 am, "Angelocracy.com"
wrote:
At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the
door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no
way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a
college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the
school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at
that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same
should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a
panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also
security cameras.

I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to
reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text
messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental
health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million
other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious:

CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!!

Jeremy


That's not going to happen.

Better lock up Quentin Tarentino right now by this criteria!


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:

Kane wrote:

It only takes ONE.

But that one seems to be so easy to get in the USA. Buy at a gun fair
and you don't need a Police check, A safe, to put it in or even ID

He didn't buy it at a gun fair (whatever that is). He had ID, he had
no police record and the buy was legal under the rules. If one has no
police record and is willing to wait the required number of days then
you can buy a gun. A safe would not help in the case where a person
wants to use his own gun.

The problem here is that none of the dots were connected. Some people
had one piece of evidence that he was mentally deranged, but no one
person knew all of the problem

Signs of derangement

1) Had an imaginary girl friend
2) Stalked some women
3) Wrote such violent plays that the female professor of the writing
class asked that he be removed from her class
4) Threatened suicide

And no one got him help until it was too late.

bluemoon wrote:
"Jeremy" wrote in message
I find it absolutely amazing that so many people think the way to
reduce these kinds of events is to lock doors, send out warning text
messages, install cameras, increase security forces, provide mental
health care, monitor students activities, ban MySpace and a million
other suggestions that totally miss the blindingly obvious:

CONTROL THE BLOODY GUNS!! Sheesh!!

That's not going to happen.

No, I know sigh. The USA will always be a place where someone with
a recent mental health evaluation and numerous complaints of
disturbing behaviour on file can walk into a shop and buy a machine
specifically designed to kill and enough ammo to kill 150 with it.

Jeremy

k-12 Schools did more to keep students safe. Virginia Tech is in
Montgomery County. Montgomery County Public Schools did more to keep
K-12 students safe. They acted faster and wiser than Virginia Tech.
After learning of the frist shooting at 7:15 at Virginia Tech.
Montgomery County Public Schools took extra security precautions to
keep there students safe. And also took steps to inform the parents of
the students. This all before Virginia Tech sent out an email to there
students at 9:26, and before the 2 shooting at 9:45.

So maybe Tiffany C. Anderson the Superintendent of Montgomery County
Public Schools , should be made President of Virginia Tech.

http://angelocracy.com/

http://angelocracy.blogspot.com/

On Apr 17, 5:55 pm, "Mr. Y" wrote:
Don't buy it. And I think that the Virginia Governor is an idiot for
showing such a pro-NRA stance.

Had there been just ONE armed person to return fire he might never
have made it OUT of the first building where he murdered.

If one could only buy shotguns, then they
would be harder to conceal and shoot up 32 people with.

Vise. Hacksaw. Very nasty weapon that would have done MORE carnage.
Ever handled a short barrelled shotgun?

He had on a coat that could easily have concealed my OWN home
protection shotgun (not the only protection I keep of course) a Rem.
Marine Magnum 870. 18" barrel. You don't even need a long coat.

But if you were worried about it "printing" through your clothes you
could easily carry it in various packages commonly seen on
campuses....like art students carry their portfolios around.

No one would even notice you.

The answer? Obvious.

Some OTHER deterent, my friend. Like the sure knowledge that the odds
are high that someone along the way will be armed and take YOU out
before you do very much damage.

Now had that janitor that Cho shot at five times had access to a
gun ... hmmmmmmm.

But they would be
good for home defense. Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways,
the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him.

Presumptuous of you. Why did he not wait for the cops and shoot them
to make them shoot him then?
THAT would prove he wasn't "afraid to die."

You mistake the motives for suicide.

My take is that, like at Columbine..where the shooters had every
intention of living on afterward, the reality of their acting out
eventually become apparent to them, and the horror of what they have
done overcomes them. THEN they decide to die.

He shot himself ONLY when the cops were closing in.

He was most certainly "afraid" of OTHERS with guns, lad. Stop and
think before babbling. Your babble will be more creative then.

Look up the Tacoma mall shooting in tpg.

Stop your wishful thinking. You cannot "remove the guns."

It is impossible for many reasons, some social, some practical
matters.

Mass murders are committed with explosives and flammables, and poisons
with even less effort.

Do a little searching.

Those who wish to kill can ONLY have their chances of success limited
by those with the means to stop them.

And in this country, the US, you cannot incarcerate someone
(theoretically) for intent, unless they are clear about the target(s).
Cho was not.

Until it was too late and the only thing, besides himself, that could
stop him, was someone with equal or better firepower.

Considering the number of groups you posted to, and I've kept in the
addy field, at least ONE person reading will one day face a deadly
force crises.

Will they and others die because they suffered the kind of thinking
errors you do?

I hope not.

Kane




"Kane" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Apr 17, 7:51 am, "Angelocracy.com"
wrote:
Virginia Tech Shooting

At Virginia Tech some of the students moved tables in front of the
door to try to keep the gunman from comming in. Because there was no
way to lock the door. A few years back there was a shooting at a
college or University in Canada. Can't remember the name of the
school. But today because of that shooting all class room doors at
that school can be lock and only a teacher can unlock them. The same
should be done at all schools here in the USA. Also there should be a
panic button in all classrooms and other parts of the schools. Also
security cameras.

The frist shooting happen at 7:15. The second happen at 9:45. There
was no alert sent out to students about the shooting at 7:15 until
9:26. People were still coming on to Virginia Tech. Students were
still make there way to class. After the 2 shooting at 9:45 a lock
down order was given about 15 min later. If a lock down order was
given right after the frist shooting at 7:15 the death toll would have
been much less. The school and the police drop the ball on this one.
In the weeks to come people will lose there jobs over this. There will
be many law suits.

http://angelocracy.com/

http://angelocracy.blogspot.com/

Hmmm...interesting thoughts.

Anyone that knows the routine, as this STUDENT obviously did, can plan
ahead, as this STUDENT obviously did (door chains, and filing serial
numbers off two guns?), would be likely to also plan ahead to deal
with locked doors.

As it was, in two instances, I believe, just blocking the door stopped
him from reentering a room he had just shot up.

One by students using just their feet (two people I believe) and one
using a large desk or cabinet, which he shot through but could not
come through.

This was a thoroughly americanized young man (came to the US at 8
years old). I'll bet you he knew his way around a hardware store or
farm supply. I can think of three things, portable, that would take me
through just about any classroom door in a split second from either
kind of store...and no, I won't list them specifically.

What happened at Virginia Tech is the same kind of bs that goes on
wherever gun grabbers, and ignorance collide. People think a ban
produces less opportunity to get a gun.

It only takes ONE.

The obvious answer is the one we "gun nuts" know perfectly well by
statistical data analysis works. An armed citizenry reduces the 'urge'
when the person knows he or she can be shot down by a legally armed
citizen, and two, that care about that or not, the murderous rampage
will stop when the murderer is down and or dead.

No one could do it.

Imagine if that janitor you heard talk about being shot at about five
times, as he had to run away, had himself been properly armed, and
fired back.

Do a ng google on talk.politics.guns searching for "Tacoma Mall." The
armed citizen was hit even BEFORE he could get a shot off, but the
perp ran and hid and STOPPED SHOOTING PEOPLE.

It is wonderfuly sobering to the crazy to get return fire. They may
decide later to suicide by their own hand, but there is something
about someone ELSE shooting at you that tends to slow the scenario
down considerably.

A couple of school shootings in England, under similar circumstances,
that is that it was illegal to carry on schoolgrounds, ended with a
paroxism of gun control.

How's the UK doing today?

MORE GUN RELATED AND OVERALL VIOLENT CRIME than ever before.

This relatively peaceful nation, one of those with the LOWEST gun
crime in the world, how has among the highest violent crime rates in
the civilized, or Western, world.

Thinking is the answer, not lockstep gun ban drooling.

What the university missed was sending out ARMED patrols to monitor
the other buildings quickly after the first incident of a killing.

But like cops everywhere, when the action starts, they tend to "clump"
at the site, then hang around getting their "hit" of adrenaline,
yakkin' it up, instead of going back out immediately on patrol, or
never coming to the incident site in the first place.

In this time and place, where both criminals and terrorists KNOW how
to create a situation to draw the cops off their primary target, or
their secondary one for that matter, having ANY slowdown in patrols
and changes in distribution of LE staff is totally stupid.

My we are slow to learn, eh?

Kane

On Apr 18, 4:35 am, Ann wrote:
"Mr. Y" expounded:

Since this guy was going to kill himself anyways,

Dear Mr. Y,

By the by. NO suicide note was found in his room or at his parents
home.. Nothing. He was as likely to wish to continue to live as anyone
else, UNTIL he had killed and had to suddenly face the reality of his
actions. AND that armed LE was fast approaching.

the fear of another person with a gun would not deter him.

Nonsense. And irrelevant.

Who cares about his fear? Another person with a gun could have
stopped him. Doesn't matter if he feared it or not.
--
Ann
e-mail address is not checked

Ann, I couldn't have said it more succinctly eloquent me very own
self.

Kane