Should I warn him?

gini,

I appreciate your comments, and I completely understand that there are
many ncp's that pay a very high amount in child support and are hurt
by the system. However, I don't believe that because there are some
that have been hurt by the system or have been served injustly (sp?)
that I should never utilize the system myself. Regardless of whether
I went through the AG's office directly myself, or hired a lawyer to
get a modification in child support, the AG's office would be
involved. A lawyer is just a middle man, they have to also go through
the AG's office.

It is my EX's choice to not use all of his available visitation, and
his choice to not accept extra time with his kids when I offer it. I
cannot force him to want his kids. You see, I was married to him for
9 1/2 years. During that time his life consisted of working and
sleeping. His paycheck was his contribution to our family, and that
was it. Even when we were married, he never spent much time with his
kids. If he was at home, he was asleep. Even now when the kids do go
over to his home for visitation, he spends most of the weekend asleep
on the couch. If the kids try to wake their Dad up to spend time with
them, their step mother reprimands them, telling them that their Dad
works hard all week, and deserves to sleep if he wants. He works in
the IT field, his hours are most of the time 9-6 pm M-F. It's not
manual or physical labor. It's obvious that he either really requires
many more hours of sleep than the normal adult, or he has a medical or
psychological problem that causes him to sleep all of the time. The
kids do have resentment toward their Dad because of this sleeping
issue, and there have been times when my EX has willingly discussed it
with me and I've explained to him as gently as I can that the kids
would really prefer that he spend some waking hours with them when
they visit. But, his behavior never changes. He's been like that all
of his life. I tried for 9 1/2 years to make it work, and went to
many counseling sessions. In the end I divorced him because he
refused to acknowledge that his amount of sleeping time was
extraordinary, and he refused to seek help in any way. He obviously
found a wife that does not mind his sleeping habits, and I am very
happy that he did. But, it does still cause a problem with his
relationship with his kids.

When we first divorced it really made me angry that he was so lax
about his visitation, and the kids were hurt by it as well. My lawyer
at the time told me to document all missed visitation, and that my
only recourse would be to take him back to court, show the judge that
he was not exercising his visitation, and have the judge penalize him
by taking some or all of his visitation away. I did not see that as
an option. My kids already didn't get to see much of their dad, so
why would I take it away all together. Some might say that
threatening him with no visitation would make him think twice about
skipping visitation, and I agree, that he probably would straighten up
for a while and see his kids more, but what would actually happen
would be that the kids would spend more time at his house, while he
was sleeping most of the time. I'm not going to force my EX to take
his visitation, because I learned the long and hard way that you
cannot force another person to want to and willingly spend time with
you and be a family.

Asking him to contribute a little more was not an overnight decision.
I have thought about it for a long time. No, my kids are not going
without food, shelter, or clothing. Yes, if their father never paid
another cent in support again, I could provide for my children. It
would be harder without the support, and they would not get many
extras if any at all, but I could provide the bare necessities. I
refuse to buy into the theory that just because I work and could
provide the bare necessities for my children that their father should
be allowed to not contribute his share. Yes, I left the marriage, it
was my choice. He would have been overjoyed if I had changed my mind
and stayed married to him. What person wouldn't be overjoyed to have
a spouse that worked 40+ hours a week, took care of two small
children, did all of the housework, all of the laundry, all of the
bill paying, all of the yard work, all of the car maintenance, and
cooked all meals? What person wouldn't be overjoyed to have a spouse
that did literally everything to keep their family life going,
contributed financially, and they be left to work and sleep? So yes,
I left a marriage that I tried to make work. I begged and pleaded
with him to go to marriage counseling several times. He would go at
first, but as soon as the counselor would suggest that we do things
like share the burden of housework, or share the burden of lawn work,
his response was always "This is stupid, I'm not doing this". His
solution to the problem was for me to not do the housework if I hated
it so much. His solution to the problem was for me to not worry about
the lawn or car maintenance. If I was so overworked and stressed in
the marriage, then I should just stop doing so much... You could say
that I wasn't willing to go with his proposals as well, which is true.
I refused to live in a pig-sty, and I knew the importance of
maintaining your car.

Maybe I was asking too much of him. Maybe it was wrong for me to
expect that he share in our lives. Some might say I should have just
quit working, but with the bills that we had that was not an option.

So I left the marriage. We had no real estate. We each took a car.
We split all of our possessions equally. He took the refridgerator
and the stereo system, I took the washer and dryer. We each took a
T.V. We had two couchs, he took one, I took the other. We even split
up the kids toys so he would have some at his house. We split the
bills evenly. He agreed to pay the bills that totalled to $XX and I
agreed to pay the bills that totalled the same amount. I never asked
for any of the stock that he had been given by his employer. I never
asked for any of his retirement fund. I didn't have my own retirement
fund either, my pay was about half of his and my employer didn't offer
it. I never asked that he contribute to the kids day care expenses.
I agreed to child support that was far below what the state guidelines
were. In 10 years I never asked him to contribute one cent more than
the child support. Oh wait, he let me borrow $200 once when I was
changing jobs and the kids needed school clothes, and I paid him back
within a month. During those 10 years I knew that he was getting
promotions and raises. He himself would brag to me about getting a
promotion. He never told me the $$ amounts, but he did tell me many
times about promotions he had received. I knew from other people that
worked at his company (before I started working there) that the
employee's were receiving very large profit sharing checks twice a
year. Even though I knew that he was obviously making more money
every year, I never asked for an increase and never asked for any
extras until now. After 10 years of him never contributing one cent
more and making more and more money every year, I finally felt it was
the right thing for him to contribute a little more to the support of
his children. I know that all of my other posts might have seen that
one day I woke and and said "Hey, that jokers making a lot more money
that he was 10 years ago, I want more of it". I knew all along that
he was steadily increasing his income. Nothing that any of you say
will make me feel badly about asking him to contribute more. Whether
you argue that it is stupid for me to go through all of this for a
lousy $150 more a month, or say that I am evil because I'm asking for
one cent more when my kids are not desperate for it, you will not make
me feel bad. You are right, it is just $150. If it is so wrong for
me to be using the legal system available to me just to ask for $150
more, then why isn't wrong of him to just go ahead and contribute that
little bit more?

"gini52" wrote in message ...
"Leslie" wrote in message
om...
Since I have requested a review for child support (explained in my
other thread) through the Attorney General's office in Texas, I was
wondering whether I should let my EX know that I have opened a case.
........................


So, if you were facing an upcoming child support hearing, would you
want to be warned, or would that just make things worse? Or should I
just wait until he calls wanting to know why he's getting payment
coupons?
===

Disclaimer: This response is not intended to speak for all the participants
in ACS, but rather to encourage Leslie to consider the entirety of child
support and family court issues that we discuss regularly and that many
folks have just never considered before. I am aware that not all ACS
participants agree with all aspects of my response and encourage those
persons to respond according to their own beliefs.
Leslie,
I appreciate that you didn't come in to ACS screaming and raging as some CPs
have in the past. By now,
you must realize that this group is comprised mostly of the "other side" of
the child support issue.
Most are support paying non-custodial fathers who have paid what most of us
believe is unduly high child support awards and are frustrated because while
NCPs are required to pay child support based on an imaginary "lifestyle,"
CPs
are not required to spend the money on the child(ren). Too, the state has
mandated that fathers in "broken" families are subject to a much higher
standard of support than parents in an intact family and even custodial
parents. This has led to anger and frustration with the system, which while
enforces child support orders, does nothing to enforce custody and
visitation orders without the NCP retaining a very expensive private
attorney. Hence, the system, while claiming to operate in the "best
interest" of the child, operates only in the "best interest" of the state.
States receive federal funding commensurate with the amount of child support
collected (which is why states established "lifestyle" child support
awards).
It is also noteworthy that several custodial mothers, custodial fathers, and
second wives participate regularly. Most of us, including some of the
custodial parents, believe that the system has failed families and children
by encouraging an adversarial relationship between parents. This strain has
resulted in alienating fathers from their children. Most of us believe that
the most important relationship a child has with his/her father is not
monetary but rather continuing ongoing parental contact. Now, you should be
aware that when the state/court establishes a child support order, both
parents lose considerable decision-making ability relative to their
children. Any agreements parents make between them must be approved by the
court or they are invalid. The court/CSE will not just back off if you later
change your mind about how much support you need or if your ex runs into
some problems with work re lay-offs, injuries, disability, etc. If he has a
catastrophic personal event that jeopardizes his ability to pay the court
ordered amount, you simply can't tell him he can reduce the amount he pays.
The court has to do that and it can takes months resulting in large arrears.
These arrears cannot be forgiven by you or the court.

All that said, you have now questioned whether you should warn him. Many of
us would encourage you question whether you should go to court at all,
involving the adversarial process, alienating your kids even more from their
father and losing the decision-making ability that duly belongs to both
parents, not the court--all for $150.00 a month you are willing to accept.
As another poster commented, the courts are better utilized for NCPs who
refuse to pay at all, not those who pay regularly, and not for the sole
purpose of getting a few dollars more a month--not because your children
need it, as you have admitted, but because he earns more money than he did
when the order was established. Actually, what I would like to see you do is
warn him that you are going to court, not for a few bucks a month, but to
try to enforce the visitation that he has been lax on so you can tell him
how much the kids deserve his time and attention ;-)
Gini

====
====

"Leslie" wrote in message
om...

"gini52" wrote in message
...
"Leslie" wrote in message
om...
So, if you were facing an upcoming child support hearing, would you
want to be warned, or would that just make things worse? Or should I
just wait until he calls wanting to know why he's getting payment
coupons?

Leslie,

I've been reading your posts in this group over the last few days, but
haven't had the chance to respond. So here I am now...

I strongly believe you should take a step back and talk with your ex.
Inform him you will be asking for an increase in support and he as a choice.
Since you are not asking for 100% of what you can receive, he would be wise
to work with you instead of against you - and you inform him of that.
Before sitting down and talking to him clearly document the justification in
asking for the increase. This justification is not for this group, but for
him. Satisfy his need to know and I bet he'll be more cooperative. Be open
to other suggestions - like him paying directly for certain items. I guess
what I'm trying to get at is don't involve the state. Work with him and use
a private attorney for the modification, after an agreement has been
reached. Once you deal with the state you have no say in the outcome and it
will start a huge war between you and your ex. I strongly believe you don't
want a war.


I wish you luck,

Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

After reading your response and calculating in my head. I find that you are
most certainly being unreasonable, vindictive and spiteful. Further more,
you are an obnoxious bitch with an axe to grind and a greedy whore.

I had a long response prepared, but after reading your latest drivel, it
would be a tremendous was to time because you have clearly state your
objective as greed and revenge because your ex is a better human-being than
you are and your children are likely ****ed for life for being raised in
your home.

Your only purpose for being here is to bask in the glory of ****ing over a
man. You know it, we know it.

One day, the tables may turn on you. Maybe your ex will be the next to snap
and we will get to read about how your head was removed from your torso and
left on a pole in your front yard. :-) Oh what a laugh that would be.

So, equal jobs, equal pay. Now if you had only allowed him equal access, you
wouldn't need his money. But I'm sure that plays a big part in why, for some
strange reason, he doesn't spend much time with them. I'm sure that was a
part of your big plan.


"Leslie" wrote in message
m...
I said we work at the same company, but never mentioned we were peers.
We have the same job title and job level, but there are 10,000+
employees at our location alone. He is in a completely different
group than I am.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
"Leslie" wrote in message
om...
Since I have requested a review for child support (explained in my
other thread) through the Attorney General's office in Texas, I was
wondering whether I should let my EX know that I have opened a case.
This is the first time I've dealt with the AG's office. My EX has
always paid me the child support directly for the past 10 years, never
through the child support system. As part of the review process I
have been sending the AG's office signed affidavit's stating amounts
of direct payments I have received. I know that at some point my EX
will be required to start making the payments through the states
system, but I don't know if that will happen before the modification
is court ordered or at that time. I've read other posts that talk
about NCP's suddenly receiving coupons from the AG's requesting child
support payments.

Would it be better for me to alert him that I have indeed opened a
case and let him know what the process will be? I did tell him that I
would be doing this a couple of months ago when he refused to
voluntarily modify support, but I think he feels that I wouldn't go
through with it. I'm not that worried that he will try to dodge the
notice of hearing date, because I have since found the Texas Family
Law which states that if he doesn't respond or provide income proof,
the state will issue an administrative subpoena to his employer to get
income information.

So, if you were facing an upcoming child support hearing, would you
want to be warned, or would that just make things worse? Or should I
just wait until he calls wanting to know why he's getting payment
coupons?

Didn't you post the two of you work together and are peers in the
workplace?

Why don't you warn your HR Director you are pulling a Saturday Night
Surprise on your ex and you are afraid he might come to work and create
a
hostile work environment or worse harm you? That way you can get the CS
increased, get him fired from his job, push him further out of your
life,
use the firing as a reason to stop vistiation, and make his life really
miserable.

I'd say examine your motives and what it is your are trying to
accomplish
and stop hiding behind the excuse we have heard here many times, i.e.
the
state AG or local DA is doing all the dirty work and you are an innocent
bystander. You called out the dogs, and only you can call them off.

(Batch=A0File) wrote:
"Maybe your ex will be the next to snap and we will get to read about
how your head was removed from your torso and left on a pole in your
front yard. :-) Oh what a laugh that would be."

---This statement from Geno the Deadbeat not only serves to totally
remove any credibility from anything he posts, but also uncovers a deep
psychological malfunction. It also brands him as a moron that didn't
read the rest of the thread..

I know that at some point my EX
will be required to start making the payments through the states
system,

WHY? If he has paid his support on time as ordered, why all of a sudden
through the state? The only thing that will accomplish is to give the state a
$$ award for the support they collect. Its a nice scam the states have going!
Don't think for an instant if there were not something in it for the
politicians they would give a damn about collecting child support!

What she doesn't realize is that he could now quit his job and send $20 a
month and they wouldn't take any action against him if he had no assets.

If I were him, I'd liquidate everything and claim extreme mental illness
file for divorce and sign all his assets over to his wife. Then the greedy
wench would get nothing but an I O U.


"Gypsy0005" wrote in message
...
I know that at some point my EX
will be required to start making the payments through the states
system,

WHY? If he has paid his support on time as ordered, why all of a sudden
through the state? The only thing that will accomplish is to give the
state a
$$ award for the support they collect. Its a nice scam the states have
going!
Don't think for an instant if there were not something in it for the
politicians they would give a damn about collecting child support!