Odd question... Cigarettes and marijuana??

Debate earlier today between a friend and I...
I've tried to do a bit of reseach and look for some informative information
on the subject...
Yes, I am aware that either smoking cigarettes or smoking pot are both
probably not a fantastic idea during pregnancy, but does anyone know of any
studies or have any valid information on the subject? My friend said
they're both very, very bad to do during pregnancy. She was saying that pot
is JUST as harmful as cigarettes. I said that since pot doesn't contain all
the 'extras' (tar, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, etc.) I figured it was
probably not *as* harmful. I am NOT trying to prove who is right or wrong.
We've kind of let it go as agreeing to disagree. Now it's kind of
bugging me, and I'm looking for any info just to settle my own mind, but I
can't seem to really find any information... Everywhere I've checked out
said both are not recommended during pregnancy (duh) but there's nothing
that I've found that says much else. Lots of people smoke during pregnancy
and end up with your average, healthy, normal baby... I'm sure lots of
people do pot as well and end up with the same.
Is there any major known risks or problems that are known to be caused by
pot during pregnancy? I'm not talking about a regular, daily basis - maybe
something like once every couple weeks or so...
Anyone have anything to comment with?

I don't know about frequency, but here's some info from the NIH (scroll
down to see it in place yourself):

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

Research has shown that some babies born to women who abused marijuana
during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli28,
increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which may indicate
neurological problems in development29. During the preschool years,
marijuana-exposed children have been observed to perform tasks
involving sustained attention and memory more poorly than nonexposed
children do30,31. In the school years, these children are more likely
to exhibit deficits in problem-solving skills, memory, and the ability
to remain attentive30.

And here are the studies that paragraph cites:

28 Fried PA, Makin JE. Neonatal behavioural correlates of prenatal
exposure to marihuana, cigarettes and alcohol in a low risk population.
Neurotoxicology and Teratology 9(1):1-7, 1987.

29 Lester BM, Dreher M. Effects of marijuana use during pregnancy on
newborn crying. Child Development 60(23/24):764-771, 1989.

30 Fried PA. The Ottawa prenatal prospective study (OPPS):
Methodological issues and findings. It's easy to throw the baby out
with the bath water. Life Sciences 56(23-24):2159-2168, 1995.

31 Fried PA, Smith AM. A literature review of the consequences of
prenatal marihuana exposu An emerging theme of a deficiency in
aspects of executive function. Neurotoxicology and Teratology
23(1):1-11, 2001.

xkatx wrote:
Debate earlier today between a friend and I...
I've tried to do a bit of reseach and look for some informative
information on the subject...
Yes, I am aware that either smoking cigarettes or smoking pot are both
probably not a fantastic idea during pregnancy, but does anyone know
of any studies or have any valid information on the subject? My
friend said they're both very, very bad to do during pregnancy. She
was saying that pot is JUST as harmful as cigarettes. I said that
since pot doesn't contain all the 'extras' (tar, formaldehyde,
hydrogen cyanide, etc.) I figured it was probably not *as* harmful. I am
NOT trying to prove who is right or wrong. We've kind of let it
go as agreeing to disagree. Now it's kind of bugging me, and I'm
looking for any info just to settle my own mind, but I can't seem to
really find any information... Everywhere I've checked out said both
are not recommended during pregnancy (duh) but there's nothing that
I've found that says much else. Lots of people smoke during
pregnancy and end up with your average, healthy, normal baby... I'm
sure lots of people do pot as well and end up with the same. Is there any
major known risks or problems that are known to be
caused by pot during pregnancy? I'm not talking about a regular,
daily basis - maybe something like once every couple weeks or so...
Anyone have anything to comment with?

My gut would agree with you, and here are a few reasons, off the top of my
head. I'm sure I'm missing some really obvious issues in regards to THC,
but oh well...

1. People who smoke cigarettes tend to smoke many per day, 10, 20, etc.
People who tend to smoke pot, do not tend to do it all day long. Pot is not
something that you can smoke as you stand on break outside your workplace,
and the smell (much like cigarettes) lingers, so it's not like most people
could toke up before work, and again at lunch.

2. The amount of smoke that people are inhaling into their lungs, regardless
of the substance burning, would affect how much oxygen you are getting into
your lungs, as well as how damaged and burnt your lungs are getting, and
therefore how much oxygen you are capable of extracting from the air you are
inhaling, whether currently inhaling smoke or not. Less is better than
more.

3. Pot smokers may be more likely to be recreational/weekend smokers,
whereas most cigarette smokers SMOKE, all day, every day. So a smoker may
be more likely to be getting more "doses" of nicotine than a pot smoker
would be getting "doses" of marijuana.

4. Nicotine supresses your appetite, marijuana increases the appetite.
During the first trimester, if one had serious morning sickness, I could see
that it would be preferable to be a pot smoker than a cigarette smoker.

5. Although tabacco is a natural substance, there are all sorts of
preservatives and processing chemicals, that you mentioned above. Cannibus
is also a natural substance, and most of the time it's just the dried buds,
and you can see that it's just a nice dried flower bud that you are buying
in that baggie. Although I guess that people could be mixing in other
substances if you weren't careful and were getting prerolled joints.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't do either when pregnant. But if I had to
chose one to be worse, depending on the situation and amount, I'd guess that
it was cigarettes that were worse.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

"Andrea Phillips" wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't know about frequency, but here's some info from the NIH (scroll
down to see it in place yourself):

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

Research has shown that some babies born to women who abused marijuana
during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli28,
increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which may indicate
neurological problems in development29. During the preschool years,
marijuana-exposed children have been observed to perform tasks
involving sustained attention and memory more poorly than nonexposed
children do30,31. In the school years, these children are more likely
to exhibit deficits in problem-solving skills, memory, and the ability
to remain attentive30.

Hm... Yes, that's about all I found, basically, saying it's not good, not
recommended, not a good idea... But, almost everything seems to state that
'abuse' can cause long term problems... I, personally, don't consider
'abuse' to be every now and then, abuse would be, to me, more like a fairly
regular or regular basis (like more like a daily thing, weekly thing, not
really maybe once every couple weeks, and not just a one time thing every
now and then... I could be wrong though, but I see a difference between use
and abuse.... But... Again, I don't know as I have had very little luck on
finding anything for, let's say for example, one joint on a Saturday night,
everything seems to point more at one on a Saturday night, Sunday morning,
Monday evening, Tuesday afternoon...

And here are the studies that paragraph cites:

28 Fried PA, Makin JE. Neonatal behavioural correlates of prenatal
exposure to marihuana, cigarettes and alcohol in a low risk population.
Neurotoxicology and Teratology 9(1):1-7, 1987.

29 Lester BM, Dreher M. Effects of marijuana use during pregnancy on
newborn crying. Child Development 60(23/24):764-771, 1989.

30 Fried PA. The Ottawa prenatal prospective study (OPPS):
Methodological issues and findings. It's easy to throw the baby out
with the bath water. Life Sciences 56(23-24):2159-2168, 1995.

31 Fried PA, Smith AM. A literature review of the consequences of
prenatal marihuana exposu An emerging theme of a deficiency in
aspects of executive function. Neurotoxicology and Teratology
23(1):1-11, 2001.

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...
xkatx wrote:
Debate earlier today between a friend and I...
I've tried to do a bit of reseach and look for some informative
information on the subject...
Yes, I am aware that either smoking cigarettes or smoking pot are both
probably not a fantastic idea during pregnancy, but does anyone know
of any studies or have any valid information on the subject? My
friend said they're both very, very bad to do during pregnancy. She
was saying that pot is JUST as harmful as cigarettes. I said that
since pot doesn't contain all the 'extras' (tar, formaldehyde,
hydrogen cyanide, etc.) I figured it was probably not *as* harmful. I am
NOT trying to prove who is right or wrong. We've kind of let it
go as agreeing to disagree. Now it's kind of bugging me, and I'm
looking for any info just to settle my own mind, but I can't seem to
really find any information... Everywhere I've checked out said both
are not recommended during pregnancy (duh) but there's nothing that
I've found that says much else. Lots of people smoke during
pregnancy and end up with your average, healthy, normal baby... I'm
sure lots of people do pot as well and end up with the same. Is there any
major known risks or problems that are known to be
caused by pot during pregnancy? I'm not talking about a regular,
daily basis - maybe something like once every couple weeks or so...
Anyone have anything to comment with?

My gut would agree with you, and here are a few reasons, off the top of my
head. I'm sure I'm missing some really obvious issues in regards to THC,
but oh well...

1. People who smoke cigarettes tend to smoke many per day, 10, 20, etc.
People who tend to smoke pot, do not tend to do it all day long. Pot is
not something that you can smoke as you stand on break outside your
workplace, and the smell (much like cigarettes) lingers, so it's not like
most people could toke up before work, and again at lunch.

lol "Hey, wanna go out for a quick puff on that joint before the next client
calls?" We'll just slip out the back door quickly since the restaurant is
dead and toke one before that party of 8 is expected... Maybe the boss will
want to join us real quick?? That would be the day... haha...

2. The amount of smoke that people are inhaling into their lungs,
regardless of the substance burning, would affect how much oxygen you are
getting into your lungs, as well as how damaged and burnt your lungs are
getting, and therefore how much oxygen you are capable of extracting from
the air you are inhaling, whether currently inhaling smoke or not. Less
is better than more.

3. Pot smokers may be more likely to be recreational/weekend smokers,
whereas most cigarette smokers SMOKE, all day, every day. So a smoker may
be more likely to be getting more "doses" of nicotine than a pot smoker
would be getting "doses" of marijuana.

I know before being pg, I would smoke close to a pack a day (so probably
about 20 cigarettes a day) Totally quit (due to it making me puke) when pg
with either of the boys. Went back to smoking that same amount - around a
pack a day - a bit after not being pg, cut down to about 10 a day when pg
with DD, and kept it down to about 10 a day when we decided to make the
house completely smoke-free. I found I was just too darn lazy to walk my
butt outside to have a smoke, and even more so when it was winter and cold
out
For the pot, even lately, it's been a one time event - highlight of the
night - if we manage to ditch the kids until the next morning with Grandma
and Grandpa or something... And in that case, we would go out and about and
that was that. No kids involved, not ever in the house - either being
brought into the house to store/stash/hide/save for a rainy day or to smoke
it.

4. Nicotine supresses your appetite, marijuana increases the appetite.
During the first trimester, if one had serious morning sickness, I could
see that it would be preferable to be a pot smoker than a cigarette
smoker.

5. Although tabacco is a natural substance, there are all sorts of
preservatives and processing chemicals, that you mentioned above.
Cannibus is also a natural substance, and most of the time it's just the
dried buds, and you can see that it's just a nice dried flower bud that
you are buying in that baggie. Although I guess that people could be
mixing in other substances if you weren't careful and were getting
prerolled joints.

Tobacco IS natural, but how 'natural' is it to be breathing in hydrogen
cyanide? Carbon monoxide? We have little detectors for that deadly,
no-smell gas. I've also yet to meet, or hear of a person, that adds a touch
of tar and fromaldehyde in their growing pot plants, and can a person just
dab a touch of benzene on their buds as they dry it out? If in the case of
getting prerolled from who knows where, you have NO idea what you're
actually getting, and quite frankly, that's just silly to do. It's almost
like Halloween and eating candy with no wrappers from random house X.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't do either when pregnant. But if I had to
chose one to be worse, depending on the situation and amount, I'd guess
that it was cigarettes that were worse.

Well, I have turned down any pot since I found out we're expecting again.
When we're out, child free, and go to a friend's house or something, people
would look at me strange as to why I would decline, and more often than not,
I'd excuse myself to the bathroom, car, outside if someone was lighting that
garbage up, and even if there is more than one cigarette going in a house at
a time, I have to excuse myself as well (I find this even worse now that we
haven't smoked in OUR house for so long, the way a room fills up with smoke
is just crazy.... Went to visit one friend a month or two ago, and of
course, was offered, but I turned him down. I had the normal, "Aww, you
wimp! You're no fun! What, can't have some and then drive home?" - the
usual, and I just said it's none of that, I just don't want to... He then
stopped, mid sentence, and said, "Omg... you're pregnant, aren't you! I
know because that's the only time you'll turn it down if you have no kids to
worry about!" and of course,what could I say? It's the truth. Made the
choice to avoid it all together... Just can't/won't totally kick the nasty
smoking, though... Even though I know it's not a good habit to have,
pregnant or not!

--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

I'm no expert, but usually you have to mix pot with something to smoke it, I
understand that pipe tobacco is often used. So you might be removing some of
the ingredients of cigarettes, but not that many. Plus cannabis itself has
hundreds of different chemicals, the full effects of which are not fully
known. So I'd think it was very relaxed of your friend to place it on an
equal level and your logic that it wouldn't be as bad is not logical at all
as it ignores all the things that are there.

The link between cannabis and mental heath problems, even after stopping
smoking it seems to be fairly well proven, it could have similar effects on
the developing baby.

Anne

Tobacco IS natural, but how 'natural' is it to be breathing in hydrogen
cyanide? Carbon monoxide? We have little detectors for that deadly,
no-smell gas. I've also yet to meet, or hear of a person, that adds a
touch of tar and fromaldehyde in their growing pot plants, and can a
person just dab a touch of benzene on their buds as they dry it out? If
in the case of getting prerolled from who knows where, you have NO idea
what you're actually getting, and quite frankly, that's just silly to do.
It's almost like Halloween and eating candy with no wrappers from random
house X.

carbon monoxide is produced when you burn something, it's a gas, not
something that is added to cigarettes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you
get more from smoking your average joint than a bought cigarette as don't
cigarettes have filters and what not.

just because something is natural doesn't mean it doesn't contain nasty
things, one plant contains hundreds of different chemicals any one of them
could be harmful.

I'd rather eat unwrapped candy from a random house than smoke pot, even if
I'd grown the plant myself, ok, so there could be a criminal about wanting
to poison children, but chances are they are just serving up something yummy
they'd made themselves, I'd only avoid it if I knew I had allergies.

Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:
I'm no expert, but usually you have to mix pot with something to
smoke it, I understand that pipe tobacco is often used. So you might
be removing some of the ingredients of cigarettes, but not that many.

Although some people do mix tabacco and pot, most people I ever met smoked
it straight. It might be a UK thing verses a US thing as well. People who
I used to know who smoked pot, were not cig smokers, and wouldn't want to
ruin the taste of their good pot with nasty old tabcco!

--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/cannabis/

cannabis contains more tar than tobacco, one of the extras you mention,
which evidently isn't an extra, it's just there.

Anne

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
I'm no expert, but usually you have to mix pot with something to smoke it,
I understand that pipe tobacco is often used.

No, there's not usually a reason to mix pot with tobacco, pipe tobacco or
just cigarette tobacco... IF mixed, normally the reasons for that are to
make it last just a bit longer, as you'd use a bit less per time since
you've added tobacco, or if it's fairly fresh, real fresh, moist stuff, I
believe, doesn't really roll nicely or burn nicely at all. Other than that,
there's really no reason to mix it with tobacco, or anything else, really.

So you might be removing some of the ingredients of cigarettes, but not
that many.

I could very well be wrong, but I believe there's tar in marijuana. Not
much added extra, as I recall hearing is the case with tobacco.

Plus cannabis itself has hundreds of different chemicals, the full effects
of which are not fully known.

Something like 400 or so different chemicals, or something like that...

So I'd think it was very relaxed of your friend to place it on an equal
level and your logic that it wouldn't be as bad is not logical at all as
it ignores all the things that are there.

But, the conversation was based on smoking cigarettes and having pot on an
occasion. I believe it was Jamie that had one point... A tobacco smoker
tends to smoke often. Normally what, half a pack to a pack a day? That is,
by far, nowhere near the example that my friend and I had of an occasional
joint at maybe a party or something. I've never really heard of a person
that says, 'Oh yes, I smoke about one cigarette every couple weeks or so...'
yet I have heard that from someone who has used or uses marijuana. I have
heard, "I'm only interested in a joint once in a while."
As Jamie said, the recreational pot smoker is not normally the person that
wakes up in the morning, has a joint with their morning coffee and toast
while reading their paper, has another one 2 hours later on the drive to
work, goes for a pot-break in the morning at work, enjoys a hoot or two
during their lunch, has another one on the way home from work, loves one
right after supper, etc., but a smoker normally does. How can you compare a
joint once maybe every couple weeks to a handful of cigarettes in a day? I
just can't seem to make the connection. A person can enjoy a joint on
occasion and still not be an abuser of it, the same way you can say you
enjoy a beer after cutting the grass on a hot summer day and a glass of wine
at Christmas... That doesn't make you an alcoholic, does it? And a beer on
a hot summer day is not as unhealthy as drinking beer like it's water, I
always thought...

The link between cannabis and mental heath problems, even after stopping
smoking it seems to be fairly well proven, it could have similar effects
on the developing baby.

Anne

Yes, this link has been proven, but everywhere I've turned to, it has been
proven with abuse and constant use over a period of time - either a lot in a
short OR long period. I've never once heard of studies or anything proving
problems with a little over a long period of time. This is mainly the
information I've been searching for. Any problems, concerns or issues over
seldome useage over a period of time... Not using once a day for 6 months,
maybe using 6 times total over 6 months.