keeping track of libary books

I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

Karen G

Karen G writes:
I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

It seems to me that it's pretty much just a financial issue. How much
does it cost to lose the occasional book; how important is that in the
scope of your family finances. Borrowing books from the library is
still way cheaper than buying them, even if you lose an occasional book
and pay for it. The money you pay goes to a worthwhile cause
(supporting the library). So I wouldn't get worked up over it, unless
you can't afford it. Of course, that's just one opinion.

David desJardins

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:36:32 EDT, David desJardins
wrote:

It seems to me that it's pretty much just a financial issue. How much
does it cost to lose the occasional book; how important is that in the
scope of your family finances. Borrowing books from the library is
still way cheaper than buying them, even if you lose an occasional book
and pay for it. The money you pay goes to a worthwhile cause
(supporting the library). So I wouldn't get worked up over it, unless
you can't afford it. Of course, that's just one opinion.

David desJardins

The money isn't an issue. I think its a "pride" problem on my part more
than anything to be honest. I absolutely can't stand losing things and
I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
jackets, books, or toys.

Karen

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
(...)


In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that
reason.

(...)

I would also add that it is probably good to emphasize the obligation to the
lender includes returning the books in good condition and (when possible),
promptly, so that others can use them.

Jeff

Easy. When my kids were younger, library books were kept in the same spot in
the living room where they could be seen. If they neglected to put them
there, when we found them, they were not permitted to take any other books
out of the library for X amount of time. It didn't take long for them to
learn that library books stayed in the living room or were returned there.

Marijke
in Montreal



"Karen G" wrote in message
...
I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

Karen G

David desJardins wrote in :

I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
jackets, books, or toys.

With shoes and jackets, you make sure it is easy to put them away, with
hooks they can reach. It has to be convenient for where you come in the
door - if you expect them to keep their outdoor clothes in their bedrooms
then they will never get put away. Then you nag them to do it whenever you
come in, until it is an ingrained habit.

Books and toys are harder to deal with: my kids don't want to put them away,
because they are permanently "in the middle of a game".

In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that

Library books are difficult, because you often read them over a few days,
and they need to be convenient for that. I suppose you have to insist
they put them in the basket when they have finished with them. And if
the kid lost it, make the kid pay the fines.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

In article , David desJardins wrote:
Karen G writes:
The money isn't an issue. I think its a "pride" problem on my part more
than anything to be honest. I absolutely can't stand losing things and
I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
jackets, books, or toys.

In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that
reason.

I agree that the emphasis with library books is that they are not
ours, so we have to be extra careful with them. We keep ours on top
of the piano, and go through the stack of books on the floor at least
once a week looking for library books that may not have made it back there.

Nor would I emphasize shoes or jackets and the like, because,
in practice, most of the inconvenience from losing those things falls on
you, not them. (Most of the time, you'll have to help find those
things, to keep on your own schedule.) The area where the point is
going to be clearest is regarding their own things that are important to
them: toys are a good example. Help them to establish clear places to
put things (much clutter arises, imho, because there isn't an
appropriate place for something, or because the place that's been
assigned to it is already too cluttered or inconvenient).

Not in our house. Clutter arises because projects don't get
finished---all of us have things scattered all over that we are "still
working on". Having a place for things is important (there is no way
we could put all the books away---we're short about 50 shelf feet for
that), but it is not the most important thing. To have a neat house,
everyone must believe that a neat house is important, that it is
worth putting in the effort to achieve, and that it is more important
than conflicting goals (like having lots of stuff or having all one's
art materials spread out for simultaneous viewing, or being able to
move from project to project without setup and cleanup overhead, or
collecting found objects when you take walks, ...).

Although there are times when I wished I lived in neater surroundings,
I have not been willing to make the sacrifices that would be necessary
to allow it to happen.

And set an example by doing the same with your own things.

This may be the most important, and it is certainly where our
household falls down on neatness. None of us are good about putting
things away. But we ARE good about returning library books, and
rarely lose clothing (one stolen lunch box and one jacket are about
all we've lost in 2 years years of public schools).

Some lessons do stick though---my son much prefers playing with my
lego set to playing with his, because all the fiddly lego technic
pieces are sorted into a fishing tackle box, and it is easy to find
the ones we need. He is pretty good about about helping sort out the
pieces when we take something apart also, because he sees the value of
a neatly arranged parts bin. He keeps his K'nex well sorted in a
fishing tackle box also, but his lego collection has too many
one-of-a-kind pieces (mainly from garage sale finds---we'd never buy
the builds-only-one thing junk that lego is pushing).

Incidentally, lego has finally recognized how much they were ****ing
parents off with their recent "trading-card" mentality and have
started offering "designer kits" that are versatile and inspire
creativity. I haven't bought one yet, but probably will for this
holiday season---they look reasonably priced and well designed. I
don't know if the stores will have them---you may have to go to the
lego catalog or on-line.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

You sound very organized We have library books
scattered hither and yon all over our house, mostly
because everyone reads books in about 4 or 5
separate locations.

We have temporarily lost a couple books, and even paid
for one that we subsequently unearthed somewhere in the
house (We got the $4.99 back). Currently we have a
copy of Nickelodeon magazine gone missing in the
house somewhere (my wife swears it was returned --
maybe so, but the library doesn't think so).

We are fortunate that the Madison library does not
charge overdue fines for kids' books/magazines. And
you can check due dates/renew online.

I guess my suggestion to the OP: You can't keep track
of everything, and you should accept that and pay
the fines that come your way. Think of it as
supporting the library

Scott DD 10 and DS 7, just finished reading 'Stiff'

Marijke wrote:
Easy. When my kids were younger, library books were kept in the same spot in
the living room where they could be seen. If they neglected to put them
there, when we found them, they were not permitted to take any other books
out of the library for X amount of time. It didn't take long for them to
learn that library books stayed in the living room or were returned there.

Marijke
in Montreal



"Karen G" wrote in message
...

I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

Karen G

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:10:29 EDT, in article
,
said...
I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

Karen,

Sounds like you're asking how to balance the immediate urgent need to
find the book with the more long-term need to keep books where they can
be found. Right?

One way might to be put them both in a broader context: tidying. Not
necessarily "cleaning" (scrubbing or vacuuming) ... tidying. Putting
things "where they go" or (if something doesn't yet have a place where it
"goes") where they "should" go (once you (plural) come up with a place).

One way to "find" the Lost Book might be to have a Grand Tidying. Perhaps
to mark the start of the new school year, or some such. This shifts the
focus away from The Book.

With that done, you might then address the long-term problem by declaring
that the usual end-of-day "tidying up" includes putting library books in
a specific place where only library books go. (One pile for everyone's
books that have been finished and can be returned; another pile for each
boy's unfinished library books.) Thus the books are less likely to get
mislaid between library visits (and get lost).

We've just started doing the latter with our two lads (7 & 9 yo). So far,
so good.

We have also started having them pay their library fines out of their
allowance-money. I'm hoping that this will help them become conscious of
the issue as "an issue".

It *is* hard to keep track of due dates, in the Brave New World of
computerized checkouts that no longer involves putting specific cards
with specific due dates in specific books. On-line renewals (available
in our library system) are convenient, but they also add to the
confusion. After a few library visits and a few on-line renewals, you
can have a dozen library books in the house, each with a different due
date ... and nothing in writing in each book that says what that date is!

Our library does offer bookmarks stamped with that day's date, at the
checkout stations. We have lots of these bookmarks in the house, by now.
But we've found that it's not easy for a child to keep a bookmark
associated with a specific book. And it's not easy to update the date on
the bookmark when the book is renewed on-line by a parent.

So I recently began making a weekly on-line check of the library accounts
of all who will let me (at this point, that's all four of us), each
Saturday morning, so that I can see whose books need to be renewed before
the following Saturday ... and whose books have been renewed so many
times that they cannot be renewed (and therefore *must* be returned on
this Saturday's library trip).

This on-line check wouldn't help me find a lost book of course. For that,
I'm counting on the end-of-day "tidying up".

--
(Mr) Dana Netherton
Default address is a spam dump. Use it, and
I'll never see it. To reach me, e-mail:
dana 1 netherton 2 net,
where "1" = at, and "2" = dot

x-no-archive:yes

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:10:29 EDT, in article
,
said...
I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

My library in the city generated a computer slip with each checkout
with the title and the dates of the book. If you had something like
that, I'd have a place to post these things. I could also renew via
automated phone answering robot.

My library in the country still stamps the books with the due date.

In the old days, my mom would take us (walking) to the library once a
week. She could get 10 books, we could get two each. We picked out
our two, she picked out two for herself, and then she picked out 8
more - some to read aloud and some for us to read to ourselves.

I don't remember how she kept us from losing the books. Basically I
usually finished mine very quickly, so it wasn't a problem with not
having finished them.

When my kids started to go to the library, I got a list of books for
young people, and I'd go up to the library (very small rural library)
once a week and do an interlibrary loan for a couple of books, pick up
the ones I'd ordered and give them to my kids to read, and return them
the next week and repeat.

I don't remember there ever being an issue with library books. I
don't know if that's because I've blocked out the memory or if we in
fact didn't have any problem. Or both.

I did have more of a problem with SCHOOL library books getting lost
somewhere. i.e. books that the children took out of the school
library when I wasn't there so I didn't know what they had taken out,
or even that the book was a library book.

grandma Rosalie