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This is a transcript of an interview with Dr Darryl See, Director of the
Institute of Longevity Medicine & Chairman of the Research Division of the
American Nutraceutical Association -January 2003

Key quotes from this interview:

.. the top three killers account for about 92% of deaths, all directly
related to the immune system.
.. the top 8 killers in the US. are all related to the immune system.
.. by the age of 70, 80% of males have prostate cancer.
.. by the age of 60, 40% of women have breast cancer.
.. when the immune system is balanced correctly, heart disease can be
prevented.
.. the use of drugs (ADR - Adverse Drug Reaction) is the #4 killer in Western
nations.
.. as a purely objective, third-party person, I cannot imagine anyone not
taking Transfer Factor.
__________________________________________________ _________





Q: You are an associate clinical professor. You have been involved with the
World Health
Organization in Western Europe; are the Director of the Orange County
Institute of Longevity
Medicine; you are co-chairman of the research division of the American
Nutraceutical
Association; and you are also an immunologist and a medical doctor?
DS: Yes, I am board certified in immunology, internal medicine, infectious
disease and, yes, an
MD as well.
Q: I see that you have received numerous research grants from Upjohn
Pharmaceuticals,
Schering Pharmaceuticals, Trinity Biotechnology, Biosphere Tech, Rose
Molecular Systems, and
so on. Even one from the National Institutes of Health on chronic fatigue
syndrome.
I suppose the question that a lot of people would have, is why would someone
who is an
immunologist, start studying nutritional medicine and natural medicine?
DS: Yes a nice way to start. I did the straight path of 4 years of college
in biochemistry, went
through 8 of internal medicine residency and then did an infectious disease
fellowship for 2 years,
2 more years of an immunology fellowship, then became assistant professor of
medicine at the
University of California, rising to associate professor. I also spent a year
at the World Health
Organization (WHO) in France where I honed my skills in the laboratory and
in clinical research in
immunological disease so we could really make some progress in those types
of diseases.
But I had a very important experience when I was with the National Institute
of Health (NIH).
I would go to an immunology conference every single year. The basic science
of immunology is
so well known there would be section after section on the basics of
immunology, but when it got
down to therapeutics, there was nothing, absolutely nothing. So, the bottom
line was I learned
through this process, and also through seeing patients and trying to apply
the drug paradigm to
their diseases.

I have seen over probably now 10,000 patients with some sort of immunologic
disorder, and in a
drug paradigm there is really nothing you can do for them basically.
Intravenous immunoglobulin is sort of the pride of the
pharmaceutical/immunological industry and
what is funny is when you go from conference to conference, from year to
year, it is always about
the intravenous immunoglobulin and different uses, but that is about it. A
little talk about
interferon, but interferon makes you very sick. A little about
interleuken-2 - it is very expensive
and very toxic. One month of immunoglobulin costs $2,000 in the US - and
they don't work very
well.
I have worked with literally thousands of patients over the years, with a
great sense of frustration
that I could not do anything with them. I was involved in clinical research
and direct patient care,
and I was fortunate enough to have expertise in laboratory medicine as well.
I decided I wanted to put those three skills together to see if we could
come up with something
that would actually help these patients - most importantly - to try to
prevent disease.
Among the top 10 killers in the US, 8 of them are associated with
immunological disorders. The
two that are not associated with immunological disorders are #4, which is
ADR (adverse drug
reaction) deaths, and #8, which is physician mistake. It is a tremendous
problem, and there were
just no answers.
So, I plunged in full-force, and I had to go out of the standard medical
paradigm. Because I knew
very little about nutrition and natural products, I basically had to teach
myself.
I was fortunate enough to have studied under some experts and I was able to
change my
laboratory focus to natural products to see if there was something in the
natural product realm
that could help the immune system.

I published a paper in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association
in February of 1999
- the results of a 6-year study done at the University done from 1992-1998,
looking at 196
promising natural products for immune system activity on the body. I will
explain a little more
about that in a moment.
There was nothing spectacular on the list, although there were some natural
products that were
promising that would raise the immune system.
I think the leading natural product after that study was inositol
hexophosphate which all of you
may recognize as an ingredient of Transfer Factor Plus, which I am delighted
to see in there
because it is a fantastic immune modulator. That was about the best we had.
Also mannans were very nice immune modulators, and I am very happy to see
those in Transfer
Factor Plus too.
After doing five independent studies of transfer factors, it is clear to me
that the Transfer Factor
Plus product from 4Life has got to be the best immunologic modulator we
have.
Let me explain immunomodulation. It is an extremely important point. We tend
to think of the
immune system as "lets get the immune system as boosted-up as we can."
People tend to have low immune systems because of environmental factors. For
example, there
is an ozone hole right over most of Australia that leads to a very high
incidence of melanomas
there and also really devastates the immune system. We have some Australian
connections -
one of our cancer patients is a CEO of a big Australian company. He was
given three months to
live, and yet he is doing very well right now. I will talk about that in a
moment.
In 2002, we looked at not just 196 natural products that showed promise - we
looked at over 500.
We have a very standardized, well-validated, highly accepted way of looking
at products for
efficacy in immunologic disorders. Remember, the top 8 killers in the US -
and that would be the
same for the whole western world - are all related to the immune system.
Having an immune modulator as a part of a regimen is crucial for prevention.
It improves the
body's ability to fight off chronic infections, cancers, immunologic
disorders associated with
diabetes. Those would be the top three killers.
Interestingly enough there is a very big immunologic component in heart
disease as well, and
that's the number one killer. Although it's anticipated that by the year
2005, cancer will be the #1
killer in the western world.

I am going to give you something you may want to write down. There was an
incredibly important
paper recently published in Lancet, one of the most highly respected medical
journals.
The study was from Japan, a 10-year study by Saitama Center Cancer Study
Group called
"Increased Risk of Cancer in Persons with Decreased Immune Functions" Lancet
2000 vol 356
pp. 1795-1799. That was the first time in history, believe it or not, that a
long-term prospective
study has ever shown that persons with decreased immune system are at higher
risk of
developing cancer and get worse cancers than people with normal immune
systems. So, all of a
sudden the immune system just jumps up to the forefront because when you
look at western
nations, cancer is becoming rampant. There is hardly a family that does not
have cancer, or
knows a friend that has cancer.




The statistics are just grim.

By the age of 70, 80% of males have prostate cancer.
By the age of 60, 40% of women have breast cancer.
The statistics are just devastating. And then there's the relationship with
heart disease - the #2
killer. When the immune system is balanced correctly, heart disease can be
prevented.
The #3 killer is diabetes, which we are very interested right now and as it
turns out, by
mechanisms that we are just finding out in the laboratory now, Transfer
Factor also lowers blood
sugar levels in diabetics. It looks like it is a very nice adjuvant for your
patients that have
diabetes. As a matter of fact, there is a little bit of literature out that
suggests that transfer factors
may have some benefits with diabetes.

So these are the top three killers in the western world accounting for about
92% of all deaths, all
of them directly related to the immune system.
This new study from Japan has shown us in blinking huge red lights that we
have got to do
something about the decreased immune system that we find in the general
population or we are
going to have a disaster on our hands, which we are indeed already seeing.
I don't know how medicine is in Australia, but it is a disaster in the US.
17% of gross-national
product goes into the medical care and yet a survey has just shown that 70%
of all Americans are
dissatisfied with their healthcare. There is something very wrong there.
I totally believe that the new paradigm in medicine is using natural
products which are not toxic.
The use of drugs is the #4 killer in Western nations. Over 108,000 deaths,
just in the US, are
associated with using too many drugs, drug interactions, etc. Drugs are
poisonous, not that they
are not useful in some situations, but when we are talking about immunologic
diseases, they have
very little role and there is very little progress. But in the natural realm
there is tremendous
progress.
As we were looking at the ability of natural products to modulate the immune
system we were
sent Transfer Factor to evaluate.
We found that regular Transfer Factor improved Natural Killer (NK) cell
functions by about 100%.
It doubled NK cell function in people. We had never seen anything like that.
The closest we had
seen to that was about a 48% increase with inositol hexophosphate, and
mannans were about
47-48%. So this was a huge find for us - we were actually stunned.
We repeated that test about 10 times. Subsequently we have repeated that
test in cancer
patients and in chronic fatigue syndrome patients. So, not only have we done
it in the laboratory
we have also performed it in patients. Those two studies have now been
submitted for
publication and they are being peer-reviewed right now at very high-level
journals. Hopefully we
will have those out within 2-6 months so everybody can see these studies
that we have come up
with.

Even more to our surprise, Transfer Factor Plus increased the NK cell
function by 250%. There
was a synergy between the different components of TF Plus. In other words,
when you take all of
the components of Transfer Factor Plus 1+1+1 does not equal 3. 1+1+1=4. That
process is
called synergy. In other words the products work together to have an
enhanced effect on the
immune system. Particularly with NK cells. NK cells are the primary defense
against chronic
infections, viruses in particular, intracellular bacteria, which are
associated with a large number of
disease.
Now we know that intracellular bacteria are associated with rheumatoid
arthritis, which is a
devastating disease. We know that viruses are associated with diabetes and
with heart disease.
Viruses are associated with many cases of cancer, with chronic lung disease,
and the list goes on
and on. It makes sense that if we can improve the function of the NK cells,
which help to balance
the immune system for one, and to rid the body and protect the body from
chronic infections, that
the infection rate and the disease rate will go down. We have indeed seen
that and that is part of
our publication that will be coming out.
It is important to understand that there are, in the natural realm, a fair
number of products that
purely boost the immune system. You will see labels that say 'boosts the
immune system,'
'greatly augments the immune system,' etc. This is a very dangerous concept.
I want to briefly introduce you to the concept of immune modulation versus
immune boosting.
Immune modulation means that the immune system is appropriately balanced to
address the
disease at hand, to prevent recurrence and to protect the body against
disease. Because, if you
just use pure immune system boosters, it has been shown by scientific
studies, that the risk of
autoimmune disease goes up. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to
figure that out. If you are
boosting everything, then you are going to start attacking parts of your
body and indeed that
happens.
But, that does not happen with Transfer Factor. Transfer factors are
composed of two primary
populations, an immune boosting population, and an immune suppressing
population. They are
intelligent. They are encoded for our DNA and they are intelligent transfer
factors that work
together. They know when the suppressor functions should come in to play to
assist with
rheumatoid arthritis or some autoimmune disease.







As a matter of fact, my uncle had rheumatoid arthritis. He is amazed now
that six months later,
he is completely free of rheumatoid symptoms whatsoever, just taking
Transfer Factor and
multivitamins. The Biovitamins that 4Life have available are very very
excellent. I think everyone
should take those as well because we are almost all deficient in vitamins
and minerals as well.
This is the concept of immune modulation and there are very few immune
modulators that exist.
There are certainly none, absolutely zero, in the drug realm.
In the non-drug realm there are only a couple. As a matter of fact, one of
them is mannans,
which is in Transfer Factor Plus. 4Life have covered it very nicely. And,
among immune
modulators, there is the strongest immune modulator, Transfer Factor Plus,
that we have found
so far and the second strongest is Transfer Factor itself. This is very
impressive to us.
When testing, we start off with the early studies - then companies will
usually come back to us
and ask if we want to extend our studies and usually we do not. But, in the
case of Transfer
Factor, we extended into a large cancer study and the results were quite
remarkable using
Transfer Factor Plus.

The immune system plays a huge part in prevention of cancer, in the active
phase and in
prevention of recurrence. And reminding you that this is the number one
killer. It also has a very
interesting positive effect in preventing heart disease and diabetes, again
the 1,2 and 3 killers.
From Japan - the Saitama Cancer Group in the Lancet 2000, vol 356 - we know
for sure now that
persons with decreased immune function - and that immune function is defined
as NK cell
function (I just wanted to make sure you know that and that is what we are
studying in particular,
patients that are in that category, whether it be from toxins, drugs,
genetics, it does not matter,
are at an increased risk of cancer, sometimes a very dramatic increased risk
of cancer) - that if
you increase their NK cell function, which is the primary defense of the
body getting cancer - the
risk of cancer goes down.
Even as a purely objective, third-party person, I cannot imagine anyone in
the world not taking
Transfer Factor. I could not imagine that you would not do it. Because, the
effect on the immune
system is so remarkable, that we have not seen anything else that equals it.
The protection that it
gives us if we are not sick is remarkable, and if we are sick it will help
because there is bound to
be an immunological component of one disease. After a disease has "gone",
you have to
continue because diseases do recur. We have shown that as well, you must
continue. This is
not a statement that the FDA has evaluated, etc, I need to make that clear
to you. But, from our
five independent studies, this is a conclusion that we have certainly made.
The second important point is that transfer factors, since they have
suppressor and booster
functions, are immune modulators. They are therapeutic in persons with
autoimmune diseases
because they know how to interact with each other and suppress the immune
system where
appropriate, and boost the immune system where appropriate in people with
autoimmune
disease. So it is safe in any person, even transplant patients.
I get that question a lot, with people with heart transplant or liver, are
transfer factors safe? Yes
they are because they are immune modulators. T-cells that are typically
activated that cause
rejection in tissues are not activated in autoimmune diseases and
transplants, so they are
perfectly safe.
There is another extremely important point I want to make. There is no way
you can possibly get
toxic from taking transfer factors. We have gone up to extremely high
concentrations, up to the
equivalent of someone taking 100 bottles of TF in a one hour period without
any toxicity
whatsoever.
This is an ideal product for lay persons to go out and really make an
impact, a positive impact, on
the health crisis that we are seeing on a world-wide basis, in regard to
degenerative diseases. It
is safe in their hands. I am very scared of some products that are floating
around in laypersons'
hands that are not safe. This is another safe point to take home, you cannot
hurt anyone with it.
You don't have to know anything about disease. You cannot help but help
them. If someone is
well, you just cannot help but to help them to prevent disease.

That is why I would like everyone to have that Lancet study and to know that
Lancet study to give
to people. You show them two studies. One has already been pretty well
circulated where I have
shown that TF Plus and TF increase the immune system to unprecedented
levels, and when you
put that together with that study it is very easy to make the connection
that the risk of cancer is
going to be much lower in someone that is improving their immune system and
this is a very safe
easy way to do this.
So, that kind of encapsulates our first study, those main points. There were
other points, and we
have those in for the publication, but those are the main points.
Then we did a huge study looking at cancer patients that were given up by
their doctors with an
average of about 5 ½ months survival period of time. Now we are about 9
months out and we
would expect statistically that about 4-5 of those patients would be barely
alive, but as it turns out
16 out of the 20 patients that are taking Transfer Factor Plus are doing
extremely well. They are
either in remission, stable or getting better. It is a pretty remarkable
study.
It is a 42 page study that I sent to a very prominent cancer journal and
hopefully we will get it in
there. It was very carefully done. I am very excited about it. There is
absolutely no doubt, based
on the Japanese data that when it comes to cancer that Transfer Factors will
help prevent cancer
and when a person has cancer, whatever the doctor is doing, you will help
that person.
If that person is getting chemo or radiation, you are not going to decrease
the efficacy of that
chemotherapy or radiation, or whatever, you are going to help the immune
system fight that
cancer because cancers release toxins that suppress the immune system. I am
not going to go
through all of the mechanisms, but there are actually about five ways that
TF Plus and two or
three ways that TF work to destroy cancer cells. They do not do it just by
boosting the immune
system. They do some pretty amazing things inside the cells too, like
increase apoptosis, which
is program cell death, which we want to see in diseases like cancer. So,
this is our second very
large study.
We have recently done another study where we looked at macrophage function.
Macrophages are another type of immune cell that are not as important as NK
cells, but they are
important in viral infected cells, particularly in bacterially-infected
cells. We found a very nice
boost in macrophage cells as well. And again in levels up to that we had not
seen before. This
was an important nice study because we did it in a blind fashion. We were
given three different
products, three transfer factor or colostrum related products and we were
not told which was
which. And we did the test.
One was far superior to the others and that turned out to be 4Life's
Transfer Factor Plus and
Transfer Factor. It's very hard to argue with a blinded study. I am working
on that one right now.
There are two that I sent at least a month ago for publication and it is
usually about an 8 week
period of time. There, in the coming weeks, we are going to be talking a lot
more and I will go
into more detail about immune modulation, about the papers, how TF works,
when to use it, when
to not and those types of things.
I just wanted to give you an introduction today and just conclude, so we
have some time to
answer some questions, with a very intriguing area that I am very interested
in right now, and that
is in diabetes.
Diabetes is the most common degenerative disease in the world right now. It
is growing every
year. It causes a tremendous amount of complications in the heart, kidneys,
legs, nerves, and
eyes and as it turns out the therapy for diabetes, insulin, is toxic to the
body. Insulin causes heart
disease and it is very difficult, in fact impossible, to modulate (to make
sure the amount of insulin
in the body is just right so that it does not have deleterious effects.)
Insulin has been shown clearly to age the body quickly, to have negative
effects on the cells,
heart, kidneys, etc, when it is imbalance. We are finding now, and when I
went back into some
old literature I was amazed, people have found this before that transfer
factors do help people
with diabetes. We will keep that as a subject for some other time. But I
just wanted to mention it
now too because you might see some pretty amazing things if you let a person
stay on their
insulin and oral hypoglycemics. You are not going to hurt them at all if
they try some transfer
factors. A warning here - they may have to go way down on their medication
after about 1-3
months. We see that all of the time.
As a matter of fact, I got called to the Emergency Room twice on patients
that I started TF on
because by that time I had done some insulin-receptor studies and I was
thinking this just may be
of some help, it certainly is going to help them prevent other chronic
diseases. Then the person
feels so much better that they stop looking at their glucose levels, they
stop doing their finger
pricks, or urines or whatever and the hospital called and their blood sugar
was in the 20s-30s. It
had dropped so much because of the transfer factors. I will have a lot more
information about
that over the next couple of months. That will be the sixth study that we
will have.
Basically it's important for you to know that you have a product that has
been proven by our
studies so far to be non-toxic, no drug interaction, to boost the part of
the immune system that
fights diseases while at the same time decreasing the part of the immune
system that causes
autoimmune disease and graft rejection.
Combining that with the Japanese study, we have a product here that boosts
the main defense
against cancer to such a high degree that, although we have not had time to
prove it completely
in a prevention sense, TF and TF Plus are extremely important to cancer and
any cancer patient.
I would use them.
During our last conference call, I kind of blew everybody away because
everyone asked me for a
list for the products that I would recommend. As it turned out, 4Life was
coming out with a
product called RiteStart that had the exact ingredients in the right
combination that are the most
effective in cancer, so I was very happy to see that.
Q: What would you start a diabetes patient on?
DS: There are three products 4Life have and one product that you don't have
yet, but I am
talking to your scientific people, but it is a simple product you can get
from a healthfood store.
So, four products for diabetics.







One warning: A diabetic person needs to monitor their blood sugars because
the blood sugars
can certainly go down. I always pick TF Plus for diabetic patients who tend
to get infections.
Those diabetics who are trying to stay well, just TF would be good enough,
about 6 a day would
be fine.
Diabetics are always deficient in Vanadium, in chromium, vit C, and vit E,
and zinc in particular.
Those are absolutely crucial in cellular function that lead to complications
in diabetes. You
cannot just pop 6 TF and get better necessarily. Three bio-multivitamins a
day would be very
recommendable. There is another product that is fantastic at lowering blood
sugar called gynema
sylvestre. 4Life have this product (Gurmar). The third product I know is
available in Australia is
alpha lipoic acid. There is a little of this in the Biovitamins, but not
enough for diabetics. You
need 200 mg of alpha lipoic acid.
So I would go with 6 TF or TF plus, three BioVitamins and 200 mg of alpha
lipoic acid and I
believe you will see some amazing things.
If things are complicated (eg diabetic neuropathy), that has to be handled a
little differently, or
kidney failure, already the eyes are starting to get shot, or the heart,
etc. I will give you a number;
I am not trying to plug the clinic, but if you call 949-645-8100 ext 3 you
will get me or my partner
and leave a message, we will call you back and we can set up a consultation
and we can set up
other products that will work in combination with those to particularly not
drop the sugars, but to
prevent complications.
4Life Distributors, without any risk whatsoever, can certainly go ahead and
recommend TF, TF
Plus, the BioVitamins and the alpha lipoic acid. These will do amazing
things. That is what you
can start doing right now to help your diabetic patients.
Q: Dr. Michael Woolridge, who is the Australian Federal Health Minister, is
just retiring. He has
been on the Federal Health Ministry for about 5 ½ years, and here's
something he stated at a
national press conference on the 25th of October of this year. He said that
we do have a choice in
health care. It is between the vision of focusing on outcomes, focusing on
managing disease,
focusing on fixing the practical problems people experience day to day in
the challenges with
health - or a vision focused on monolithic hospitals, that are in essence
sickness-based rather
than wellness-based.

DS: Absolutely. In the chronic degenerative disease we've talked about,
which covers most of
the immunologic disease, all western medicine can really do is put bandaids
on it. Those
bandaids are really expensive bandaids, but it does not get down to the root
of the problem.
Transfer factors bind to receptors and they increase cyclic A&P levels. We
know what they do
inside the cells. We are improving cellular health in the immune system and
other tissues that
are biochemically very sound, so you make an excellent point that we are
addressing diseases
now which is part of the paradigm shift from a wellness perspective, which
is getting cells healthy
rather than poisoning systems and just trying to control symptoms. Medicine
has to head in that
direction, and certainly is.
But we're going to have a big fight with the systems that are already in
place. But patient demand
is big. When people start throwing away insulin syringes, we are not making
any claims or
anything, but when we start seeing cancer incidence going down, then
hopefully patients are
going to start driving the system.
We are seeing that just beginning in the States right now. It is going to
free up so much money
that is otherwise wasted and also get to the bottom line with patients to
help them from a cellular
level instead of just putting a bandaid on them.
Shifts come hard sometimes, but this is just too important and the science
is too overwhelming.
We have so much objective data, you have probably just a little bit of the
data that we have put
out and 4Life has put out, but now with the publications I have sent out we
are going to have
tremendous amounts of objective data.
Q: What would you recommend for chronic fatigue syndrome?
DS: I have had thousands of chronic fatigue patients. Chronic fatigue is
difficult to do in 30
seconds. But I can quickly cover the important points.
1) It is a variety of diseases. So it is crucial that you get yourself an
expert that can rule out
testosterone deficiencies, immune deficiency. I would say about 60% of
chronic fatigue
patients have natural killer deficiency, about 40% have testosterone
deficiency, about 30%
have pregnenalone deficiency, about 40% have Mycoplasma incognitos
superinfection which
mannans works absolutely fantastic against that. It is unbelievable. So,
first thing to do is to
realize it is not one disease. You have to get into an expert and get the
right testing done so
the expert can get the right testing done to be led in the right direction
to give that person the
very best combination.
2) The second point to make is this. All chronic fatigue syndrome patients
by definition have
some kind of immune deficiency, so you cannot help but to do them good to
give them
transfer factor and for reasons that I will go into later, I would give CFS
patients just regular
transfer factor, not TF Plus, unless they have Mycoplasma incognitos. I know
that is kind of
complicated. TF by itself unless they have Mycoplasma, then TF Plus. It took
12 years for
me to figure that out but it really holds true. Make sure you get the right
workup and transfer
factor is going to be helpful no matter what.
3) Every chronic fatigue syndrome patient is vitamin deficient, across the
board. The always
have mineral deficiency - always have malnutrition. So the BioVitamins help
that for sure. All
females with chronic fatigue have hormonal deficiency and soy isoflavones,
which is in the
4Life Genestein Plus, are extremely beneficial in the hormonal deficiency.
If you are a male
take the multivitamin, the TF or TF Plus, the BioEFA, and if you are female
also take the
BioGenistein and then based on the lab results you will probably end up on
some other things
as well.
In a nutshell, that is a start to handling chronic fatigue syndrome.
For more info- www.storesonline.com/site/tfplus