Anti-homeschooling

Rosalie B. wrote:

My dd is afraid that her son transferring to MD from
England will be completely behind in stuff that we take for granted
that the kids absorb as part of our culture - like the story about
the Pilgrims and Plymouth Rock, our Civil War etc.

Oh, well, a lot of what we learned in school about those things was wildly
inaccurate in any case ; )

But on the plus side, he'll probably be pretty popular, with the girls,
anyway. Accent and all, y'know.


--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message

If this is a h.s. assignment, I'd head to the h.s. library. Current and
controversial issues are usually "often assigned" topics in school and
high school libraries in those schools tend to stock a lot of resources.

[ . . . ]

I've taught public speaking to college freshmen, and it's suprised me that
every semester, someone wants to do a debate or a persuasive speech on
homeschooling. It hadn't occurred to me that this might be because it's a
standard high-school debate topic (along with euthanasia, capital
punishment, drug testing, etc. etc.), and therefore one for which students
are inclined to recycle their hs speeches/debates.*

Out of curiosity, I just did a Google search with:

"high school" debate homeschooling

.. . . and got 5,800 hits. Yeah, I guess this must have joined the ranks of
standard topics:

http://tinyurl.com/h3s6

Belphoebe

* Recycling their hs assignments is considered "academic dishonesty," but I
guess they figure they can get away with it.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:18:09 +1200, "kereru"
wrote:

Why isn't asking on here considered a viable research tool?

Judy

Because on usenet, you are mostly going to get only opinions
and most of the actual scholarly research on any field is not online
through the usual search engines at any rate. Libraries often
provide access to much more serious research and would be
a much better place for him/her to look.

Usenet, as much as I love the atmosphere is not going to get
you much in the way of ways to prove your arguments.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Belphoebe wrote:

I've taught public speaking to college freshmen, and it's surprised me that
every semester, someone wants to do a debate or a persuasive speech on
homeschooling. It hadn't occurred to me that this might be because it's a
standard high-school debate topic

I suspect that if there is any standard textbook on debate (I've never taken
it, I have no idea if there are textbooks), there are probably a bunch of
suggested topics, and this might be one.

By the way, one reason the OP's original post smelled of cheating is that they
seemed to be looking for some pre-made laundry list of reasons why
homeschooling wasn't a great idea, rather than having to think. Hence my
suggestion of looking at previous defenses and deducing what the defense was
against. Did that make any sense to you?

--Helen

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, newfy wrote:


"kereru" wrote in message
...

Why isn't asking on here considered a viable research tool?

Judy

Because the OP wasn't asking for our opinions on the topic. IIRC, he/she
asked for urls and links to sites that would have anti hs info.

No she didn't. She mentioned she was looking for literature and websites
then added, "If anybody knows something about this issue, please let me know."

I see nothing in her comments that suggest she is unwilling to search on
her own. I suspect she had already begun the search (which, it
turns out, is not as simple a search as it appears). Now ideally,
an experienced soul would have said, "I have DONE X, Y, and Z but
I'd also like to hear thoughts from people who have a particular
interest in this subject..." but it's my experience that people
learn how to make these requests thru trial and error.

I belong to a listserv of over 14,000 librarians. Every now and
then even one of them will make an even less sophisticated request
for information and, invariably, everyone will jump all over
them for not doing any searching on their own (when, of course,
they have). I suspect these people learn a valuable lesson
tho and that is how to properly frame an info-request question:
you have to at least tell you audience what it is you have
already done or they will assume you haven't done anything.

All that said, it's perfectly legitimate to query folks who
might work in or have a special interest in a particular topic.
If she's a young student as she appears, chances are she's
never been engaged in a conversation about this particular
topic and isn't familiar with the common points most of
us have heard numerous times (e.g. socialization). If
for no other reason, sometimes talking to others can provide
a person with a few keywords they hadn't come up with on
their own, keywords they can use to aid their search.

I don't think her request was out of line at all but I suspect
she learned a whole lot more about human nature than she
learned about homeschooling.

On 16 Jul 2003, H Schinske wrote:


By the way, one reason the OP's original post smelled of cheating is that they
seemed to be looking for some pre-made laundry list of reasons why
homeschooling wasn't a great idea, rather than having to think.

I didn't get that from her post at all.

Hence my
suggestion of looking at previous defenses and deducing what the defense was
against. Did that make any sense to you?

That makes perfect sence but depending upon the student's age and
experience, it could be more difficult for them than you think. Some
will be able to deal with text on that level; for others, it will
be a skill that has to be taught. And if it's a topic a student
truly has no background info in, "defenses" may not be immediately
obvious. Homeschooling would be a pretty easy topic for most of
us. But I think about a silly Einstein hoax debate going on
elsewhere across the net. I simply don't have enough knowledge
in physics, etc., to recognize one side from the other at times.
Someone will say something declarative and I'll think to myself,
"Oh dear, was he proving or disproving the other guy's point?"

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:11:44 +1200, "kereru"
wrote:


When I was at school/university asking someone who knows more than you was
considered a reasonable step in carrying out research. How do you lot know
that the OP hasn't already done a Google search, been to the library etc..
How do we know that he/she isn't just looking for more info on top of that?

Isn't asking a group of people who are guaranteed to be involved in
schooling (parents) a reasonable option? After all we try to encourage kids
to explore many avenues. Not everything is available on google.


Agreed. I didn't see anything wrong with making a request for
information to a group of people who are likely to have done some
thinking or researching on the subject. In fact, I thought the OP was
quite resourceful in coming here looking for info - and who are we to
immediately assume s/he hasn't done his/her own research? Either this
is a starting place, or a place to get more detailed recommendations
and referrals for additional information.

Why all the hostility? Just because this kid is presenting a debate on
the topic? I'd hate to imagine my child being treated in such a nasty
fashion by a group of other parents ...

Karen
--
The Orange Cat: Calendar, advice & tips for busy families in the San Gabriel Valley
www.theorangecat.org

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, iphigenia wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

My dd is afraid that her son transferring to MD from
England will be completely behind in stuff that we take for granted
that the kids absorb as part of our culture - like the story about
the Pilgrims and Plymouth Rock, our Civil War etc.

Oh, well, a lot of what we learned in school about those things was wildly
inaccurate in any case ; )


It is absolutely astounding how many people's knowledge of US history
begins and ends with those second grade lessons on the Pilgrims. I
had a woman recently just jump all over me for suggesting the
Pilgrims weren't the first to arrive after Columbus. She simply
could not get her head around the fact that even the first ship-
load of slaves arrived before the Pilgrims. Uh huh, no way.

On 16 Jul 2003, Beth Kevles wrote:


Hi, again -

Michelle, "arguments against homeschooling" isn't a search term I'd have
thought of, but it worked! It led me to a paper by Robert Reich (which
I couldn't even manage to get the abstract of online, but I know I could
find it in print if I try hard enough) and the review of a book that
looked useful.

I still haven't located any statistics about how well homeschool kids do
and under what circumstances homeschooling works/doesn't work. Plenty
of anecdotes, but no data.

Here you go:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/rudner1999/Rudner3.asp


This is one I've had tucked away for a long time, not something
I just found.

Karen ) wrote:

Why all the hostility? Just because this kid is presenting a debate on
the topic? I'd hate to imagine my child being treated in such a nasty
fashion by a group of other parents

It's due to seeing a lot of help-me-with-my-homework requests over the years.
One gets very cynical.

--Helen