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6 week imunisation - good or bad



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 18th 03, 11:27 PM
Tsu Dho Nimh
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

Wendy Marsden wrote:

PF Riley wrote:

While I agree with you that the benefit of vaccination outweighs the
risk, which society are you talking about that "requires" such?


I just had a conversation with my child's preschool he's starting in the
Fall. A full vaccination record is the default with any other option not
mentioned as even a possibility.

I'm holding off on the chicken pox vaccine (with my ped's approval) and
despair of him ever catching it normally if the school gets fussy about
needing the vaccine to admit him. I'm not sure what religious grounds I
have when he's had all his other vaccinations.


Well, how lucky do you feel? If an unidentified viral infection
was killing 100 or so kids a year and putting thousands in the
hospital ... how would you feel about getting the vaccine? Just
because it's got a familiar name doesn't mean it's not capable of
causing harm.

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/c...icken.pox.html

"One of the challenges facing public health professionals is to
educate the public and health-care providers that chickenpox is
not an entirely benign disease. There are approximately 100
deaths and 9,300 hospitalizations due to complications of
chickenpox each year. The majority of these deaths and
complications occur in previously healthy individuals, and should
be preventable by vaccination,"Dr. Jane Seward, CDC
epidemiologist.

Chickenpox can be complicated by a variety of serious conditions
including skin infections which can progress to blood borne
infections, infections of the brain which may result in
disability, and serious pneumonia. In rare incidences, these
complications can progress to death.

A chickenpox outbreak at a daycare center in Atlanta provided CDC
epidemiologists an opportunity to study the effectiveness of the
vaccine. "Among children who had not been vaccinated prior to the
outbreak, 88 percent of the children contracted chickenpox," said
Dr. Seward. "Among those who had been vaccinated, only 14 percent
developed chickenpox and in all cases the disease was mild."

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré
  #12  
Old July 19th 03, 12:03 AM
Roger Schlafly
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

"Tsu Dho Nimh" wrote
I'm holding off on the chicken pox vaccine (with my ped's approval) and

Well, how lucky do you feel? ...


She has already evaluated the tradeoffs. You as might as well be
lecturing her on the dangers of preschool. At preschool, the kid
can have accidents, get diseases, learn bad habits, be influenced
by trouble-maker kids, etc. All in all, it is much more dangerous
than chickenpox. Apparently she has decided that the advantages
of preschool make it worthwhile.


  #13  
Old July 19th 03, 01:58 AM
Wendy Marsden
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:

"One of the challenges facing public health professionals is to
educate the public and health-care providers that chickenpox is
not an entirely benign disease. There are approximately 100
deaths and 9,300 hospitalizations due to complications of
chickenpox each year. The majority of these deaths and
complications occur in previously healthy individuals, and should
be preventable by vaccination,"Dr. Jane Seward, CDC
epidemiologist.


I totally agree that chickenpox is a serious hazard - in people who
contract it as adults.

Chickenpox can be complicated by a variety of serious conditions
including skin infections which can progress to blood borne
infections, infections of the brain which may result in
disability, and serious pneumonia. In rare incidences, these
complications can progress to death.


Sounds like typical twenty-something male behavior, ignoring skin
infections, getting sick unto death before they seek help... I hope to
prevent that scenario by having my son get chickenpox when I'm around to
monitor him, not when his vaccine wears off while he's away at college.

Wendy
  #14  
Old July 19th 03, 03:53 AM
CBI
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad



"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:

Chickenpox can be complicated by a variety of serious conditions
including skin infections which can progress to blood borne
infections, infections of the brain which may result in
disability, and serious pneumonia. In rare incidences, these
complications can progress to death.


Sounds like typical twenty-something male behavior, ignoring skin
infections, getting sick unto death before they seek help... I hope to
prevent that scenario by having my son get chickenpox when I'm around to
monitor him, not when his vaccine wears off while he's away at college.


The skin infections are not usually what kills you. Mostly it is the viral
pneumonia. There is no effective treatment for it. No amount of monitoring
will avoid it.

Then there is the cerebritis.

--
CBI, MD


  #15  
Old July 19th 03, 06:27 AM
Wendy Marsden
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

CBI wrote:

The skin infections are not usually what kills you. Mostly it is the viral
pneumonia. There is no effective treatment for it. No amount of monitoring
will avoid it.


But you can make it worse by ignoring it and not helping yourself to get
well, right? Machoing through it?

Then there is the cerebritis.


Got me - a brain infection? I've never heard of that complication.

So, what is *your* opinion on vaccination against chicken pox in children
elementary-school aged and younger? Are you thrilled to have the scourge
gone? Are you worried about the potential for diminished immunity in
twenty years? Do you have any personal experience with chicken pox gone
terribly wrong in children? Were you happy when they made it a state law
or did you feel like your hands were unfairly tied on the subject?

Wendy
  #16  
Old July 19th 03, 11:54 AM
Tsu Dho Nimh
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

Wendy Marsden wrote:

Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:
Chickenpox can be complicated by a variety of serious conditions
including skin infections which can progress to blood borne
infections, infections of the brain which may result in
disability, and serious pneumonia. In rare incidences, these
complications can progress to death.


Sounds like typical twenty-something male behavior, ignoring skin
infections, getting sick unto death before they seek help... I hope to
prevent that scenario by having my son get chickenpox when I'm around to
monitor him, not when his vaccine wears off while he's away at college.


The last death from chickenpox in this state was a child less
than 2 years old. He got a hemolytic strep infection in the
pustules and it went to septicemia in hours, death in a day.

Source of the infection? His parents throats. The bacteria is a
common throat inhabitant, and the pustules were an open would to
invade.

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré
  #17  
Old July 19th 03, 11:57 PM
PF Riley
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:21:12 GMT, Wendy Marsden
wrote:

Because my experience with chicken pox is that it is an inconvenient but
not terrible childhood disease that is much worse if you get it as an
adult, and I'm worried that the vaccine will wear off, causing the adult
to get a much worse case than he would have as a child.


It is likely that breakthrough infections in vaccinated adults will be
mild, as they are in children.

By the way, I had to have a rubella booster shot as an adult - the vaccine
had worn off.


It's important to know that the determination that your immunity from
the vaccine had waned was probably based on your serum antibody level,
which is a poor surrogate marker for actual immunity. Rechallenge you
with actual rubella virus and you may have a proper, robust anamnestic
protective immune response despite previously undetectable antibody
levels.

I also feel confident that I could adequately remove him from the company
of adults who are not immune so that I would be endangering no-one else.


I would not be so confident, as chickenpox is contagious for a few
days before the first lesions appear, and frequently with chickenpox
the parents were not aware of a recent exposure.

PF
  #18  
Old July 20th 03, 01:46 AM
Wendy Marsden
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

PF Riley wrote:
By the way, I had to have a rubella booster shot as an adult - the vaccine
had worn off.


It's important to know that the determination that your immunity from
the vaccine had waned was probably based on your serum antibody level,
which is a poor surrogate marker for actual immunity.


You're right, but it was required by law in my state when I
married. (Unmarried couples can skip the blood test and subsequent
re-innoculation.) I even had to sign a statement saying I would use birth
control for the next six months. I couldn't BELIEVE it!

I also feel confident that I could adequately remove him from the company
of adults who are not immune so that I would be endangering no-one else.


I would not be so confident, as chickenpox is contagious for a few
days before the first lesions appear, and frequently with chickenpox
the parents were not aware of a recent exposure.


Good point. So where do you stand on vaccinating four year olds for
chickenpox?

Wendy
  #19  
Old July 20th 03, 12:16 PM
Tsu Dho Nimh
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad

Wendy Marsden wrote:


I also feel confident that I could adequately remove him from the company
of adults who are not immune so that I would be endangering no-one else.


Oh really? That means keeping the child isolated until he's old
enough to leave home.

You do realize that most childhood viral infections are
contagious BEFORE the symptoms are bad enough that the infected
one appear ill even to the most watchful parents. With
chickenpox, the spots appear only AFTER the child has been
shedding extremely infectious virus particles in saliva and nasal
secretions for a few days. They might appear to have "the
sniffles", but that's aboiut the extent of the symptoms.


Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré
  #20  
Old July 21st 03, 04:31 AM
CBI
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Default 6 week imunisation - good or bad



"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message
...
CBI wrote:

The skin infections are not usually what kills you. Mostly it is the

viral
pneumonia. There is no effective treatment for it. No amount of

monitoring
will avoid it.


But you can make it worse by ignoring it and not helping yourself to get
well, right? Machoing through it?


Absolutely.



Then there is the cerebritis.


Got me - a brain infection? I've never heard of that complication.


Yes.


So, what is *your* opinion on vaccination against chicken pox in children
elementary-school aged and younger?


Mixed - at this point I think any concerns about poor immunity are pretty
much moot since the natural disease is becomming rare in childhood.
Over-all, I think things favor giving to the kids - mine have both had it
and I recommend it to my patients, although not with quite as much
enthusiasm as the others.


Are you thrilled to have the scourge
gone?


Thrilled wouldn't quite be the word as it was not that much of a scourge -
but yes, the less of it I see the better.



Are you worried about the potential for diminished immunity in
twenty years?


Yes - or 80 years.

Do you have any personal experience with chicken pox gone
terribly wrong in children?


"Terribly" - like death? No.

I have seen some pretty sick kids require hospitalization. That was actually
not all that uncommon.

Were you happy when they made it a state law
or did you feel like your hands were unfairly tied on the subject?


I still don't feel my hands are unfairly tied. Like I said - I do think the
markedly diminished rates of natural infection are making the "wait and see
if he gets it" approach less and less likely to be fruitful and more likely
to be harmful.

I also think that as data comes in the fears are becoming less tenable.

--
CBI, MD


 




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