How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 14, 12:41 pm, Banty wrote:
In article ,
cjra says...





On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.
???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do.

I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult
to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will
make a difference.

Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable?
A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing?

Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on
construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't
want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very
well may not work.

A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress topper.
Not a whole bed.

Sorry I said bed but was thinking mattress. They're not cheap and we
have a good one already. DH doesn't happen to like it, but it's not
worth spending money on another (and then what to do with the old? We
try very hard to limit our purchases not just for $$ reasons but
because we aim not to be over consumers).

This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast, looking
for some magic fix.

oooh, i'd love a magic fix!

I know there is none.
I've not discarded any ideas except that of buying a new mattress for
DH that isn't really necessary. All are possible things we're
considering, just in an order that seems most reasonable. The
suggestions seem to be getting grander, while I'm still working on the
initial, smaller steps.

This went from having DH sleep in another room, but as the other bed
hurts his back, switch beds. That's a lot of work. Not impossible, and
if seems like it's our only real option, we will consider it. (the
frames are totally different so just swapping out the mattreses with
out the frames doesn't work, and for a variety of reasons, I won't put
the mattresses on the floor in this house). So the next suggestion is
what I consider to be more extreme: get a new mattress/bed whatever
you want to call it. I'm trying to stick to the simpler, less drastic
solutions.

With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is done.
Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work, and
how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you seem
to really be able to envision things finally working.

No, I'm envisioning DD sleeping peacefully in our bed or in the crib
that's in our room. I'm trying to figure out how best to get there
with a drastic overhaul of our house. Hey, we can move out and find
new house with multiple rooms and we can each sleep in our room and
problem solved. But you know, that's a drastic measure, dontcha
think?

All in all, I've responded to quite a few suggestions that we're going
to try out.

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article
,
cjra says...

On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort
and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.
???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to
do.

I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult
to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will
make a difference.

Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable?
A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing?

Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on
construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't
want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very
well may not work.

A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress
topper.
Not a whole bed.

When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I
understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that
much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand
dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a
few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you
can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be
uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything.

This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast,
looking
for some magic fix.

With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is
done.
Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work,
and
how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you
seem
to really be able to envision things finally working.

Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able
to get
to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are
trying to
come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option.

Banty


I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and
simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like
going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a
rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less
extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the
easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that
the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she
gets to the more difficult ones.

--

Jamie Clark

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
cjra wrote:

I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it.
There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN.
It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah,
wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living
space.

Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again,
and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep
and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months.

I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories.
And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was
going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved
and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd
grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up
and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't
going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet.
So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself
in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without
waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the
living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate
a bit.

It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And
that's the problem more than the house.


It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem
sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every room
pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or
dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life
went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2
story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight or
earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door.

I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't
sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall
asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh
can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too
much light for me and it would keep me awake.

Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper,
and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during a
movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready for
bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The kids
can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and he
hears none of it.
--

Jamie Clark

On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message

...



cjra wrote:

I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it.
There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN.
It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah,
wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living
space.

Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again,
and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep
and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months.

I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories.
And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was
going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved
and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd
grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up
and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't
going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet.
So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself
in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without
waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the
living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate
a bit.

It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And
that's the problem more than the house.

It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem
sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every room
pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or
dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life
went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2
story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight or
earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door.

Basically, yes. Not ranch style but yes all the rooms open onto the
center of the house/public rooms (and all are interconnected).

I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't
sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall
asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh
can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too
much light for me and it would keep me awake.

Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same
issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but
life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my
parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently.

Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper,
and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during a
movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready for
bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The kids
can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and he
hears none of it.

My DH is now conditioned to it. DH is actually not a light sleeper at
all. For more than a year he slept right through DD's night wakings
even tho she was 2 inches from him (except when she really screamed,
which was rare then). Since he took over night duty though, he does
wake all the time. Unfortunately I do too. I think part of the reason
her night wakings are getting harder to deal with is that I also have
to deal with DH's lack of sleep grumpiness ;-). I can handle lack of
sleep much better than he can, although even I have my limits!

"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message

...



cjra wrote:

I have described the house set up repeatedly, perhaps you missed it.
There are not very many rooms in the house. Every other area is OPEN.
It's a smallish house. There's not some side area to put her, so yeah,
wherever she'd be outside the bedroom would be in a common living
space.

Yes I answered before I read the post where you described it again,
and I was not paying attention in the beginning as I did not co-sleep
and did not have much trouble with night waking after about 6 months.

I do live in a pre Civil War house (in the US), but it is two stories.
And very well insulated for noise. Dd#2 was determined that she was
going to be in the band playing with her sister, but we had just moved
and the school system we moved to started instrumental music in 3rd
grade, and she was in 5th grade so way behind. She wanted to get up
and practice before school, but dh said absolutely not, that he wasn't
going to be wakened up at O dark 30 with the screeching of a clarinet.
So DD#2 went downstairs into the 'new' wing (c 1930) and shut herself
in the half bath off the kitchen and she could practice there without
waking her dad. And my son's rock band used to practice in the
living room which is right under our bedroom - made the house vibrate
a bit.

It sounds like you are a whole family of problem sleepers.g. And
that's the problem more than the house.

It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem
sleepers. And she clearly has a small ranch style house, where every
room
pretty much opens onto the public rooms -- be it living room, kitchen or
dinning room. I've lived in houses and apartments like that, where life
went on as usual on the other side of your door. Now I live in a large 2
story home, and there are all sorts of places I can go to be out of sight
or
earshot from my dh or kids, with or without shutting a door.

Basically, yes. Not ranch style but yes all the rooms open onto the
center of the house/public rooms (and all are interconnected).

I saw the photos. It looks like it has some beautiful bones! Obviously
life will get easier once you get the doors back up...

I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't
sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't
fall
asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh
can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too
much light for me and it would keep me awake.

Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same
issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but
life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my
parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently.

Ah, see, I never had "sleep issues" as a child, and don't have insomnia.
Once I'm asleep, I'm good to go. I wake multiple times a night for various
reasons -- have to pee, kid has nightmare, dh is snoring (or breathing
towards me), but I can roll over and go back to sleep easily. I have taken
to sleeping with a pillow over my head. It makes it dark and quiet, all in
one fell swoop. I have also used earplugs and an eye mask in the past.

Dh, on the other hand, can sleep almost anywhere. He is a heavy sleeper,
and routinely falls asleep on the sofa in the middle of a show, or during
a
movie, or in bed while I have the overhead light on and am getting ready
for
bed, etc. It takes a bit to wake him in the middle of the night. The
kids
can be up and down 3-4 times, in and out of our room, talking, etc, and
he
hears none of it.

My DH is now conditioned to it. DH is actually not a light sleeper at
all. For more than a year he slept right through DD's night wakings
even tho she was 2 inches from him (except when she really screamed,
which was rare then). Since he took over night duty though, he does
wake all the time. Unfortunately I do too. I think part of the reason
her night wakings are getting harder to deal with is that I also have
to deal with DH's lack of sleep grumpiness ;-). I can handle lack of
sleep much better than he can, although even I have my limits!

Dh was conditioned to it for a while, but as the kids got older and wake
less and less frequently, he's basically given up night wakings back to me.
On the plus side, though, he gets up with the girls every morning and lets
me sleep in for another hour or so. While both girls were babies though,
he'd pop right up and get them if he needed to. We would alternate nights
On Duty, and on his nights, he was great. On my nights, he'd sleep through.
Sometimes I'd have to go to "Holiday Inn" which is what we named our
downstairs guest room, so that I wouldn't wake up when the baby cried.

--

Jamie Clark

On Mar 14, 2:19 pm, "Jamie Clark" wrote:

Dh was conditioned to it for a while, but as the kids got older and wake
less and less frequently, he's basically given up night wakings back to me.
On the plus side, though, he gets up with the girls every morning and lets
me sleep in for another hour or so. While both girls were babies though,
he'd pop right up and get them if he needed to. We would alternate nights
On Duty, and on his nights, he was great. On my nights, he'd sleep through.
Sometimes I'd have to go to "Holiday Inn" which is what we named our
downstairs guest room, so that I wouldn't wake up when the baby cried.

I am so conditioned that when I really am at a real Holiday Inn (or
hotel of some sort, away on business overnight) , I still wake up at
the same time she does. That's also why I'm fairly certain it's a
habit all around.

In article , Jamie Clark says...

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article
,
cjra says...

On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort
and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.
???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to
do.

I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult
to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will
make a difference.

Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable?
A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing?

Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on
construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't
want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very
well may not work.

A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress
topper.
Not a whole bed.

When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I
understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that
much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand
dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a
few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you
can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be
uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything.

This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast,
looking
for some magic fix.

With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is
done.
Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work,
and
how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you
seem
to really be able to envision things finally working.

Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able
to get
to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are
trying to
come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option.

Banty


I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and
simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like
going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a
rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less
extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the
easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that
the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she
gets to the more difficult ones.


OK, thats fine.

It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never
converge to a solution.

Blame the engineer in me.

Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various
things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on
cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the
simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude
to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all!

Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way
things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down.
There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the
solution. I don't think we'll be reading about any suicides ;-) Thats the
only point I'm making.

Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when
my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as
to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking. But they are where
they are with that ..

Banty

In article ,
cjra says...


I am a very light sleeper. I can't sleep with noise or lights. I can't
sleep sitting up (in an airplane, train, or car, for example). I don't fall
asleep with the TV on, either in bed, or downstairs while watching. Dh
can't stay up in bed and read, or even use a laptop, as that would be too
much light for me and it would keep me awake.

Yes! Now that is true. I am definitely a light sleeper, all the same
issues Jaime described. Really stinks on 20+ hour plane flights but
life goes on. I had sleep issues as a kid though, according to my
parents, and as a teen had bouts of insomnia frequently.

I sleep deeply pretty much as soon as my head hits the pillow; but I could
*never* sleep or even doze much in the half-sitting position that is the best
that can be managed in an airplane. In cattle-class, anyway :-)

There's only so mucn one can do about that sort of thing. Other than trying not
to make is worse by getting PO'ed if one is awakened.

Banty

On Mar 14, 2:49 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Jamie Clark says...





"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article
,
cjra says...

On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort
and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.
???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to
do.

I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult
to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will
make a difference.

Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable?
A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing?

Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on
construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't
want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very
well may not work.

A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress
topper.
Not a whole bed.

When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I
understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that
much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand
dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a
few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you
can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be
uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything.

This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast,
looking
for some magic fix.

With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is
done.
Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work,
and
how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you
seem
to really be able to envision things finally working.

Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able
to get
to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are
trying to
come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option.

Banty

I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and
simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like
going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a
rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less
extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the
easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that
the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she
gets to the more difficult ones.

OK, thats fine.

It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never
converge to a solution.

Blame the engineer in me.

Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various
things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on
cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the
simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude
to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all!

I'm guessing you missed the first 20-30 or so posts in this thread,
where a number of solutions were offered and discussed, and I said I
was going to try some of them for a certain length of time to see how
they worked. Some I've already tried and they didn't work, so I'm on
to the next step. or they worked for awhile but now no longer.

I rejected other solutions as not feasible or just simply more extreme
than I felt was warranted initially. Those rejected solutions are what
led to more extreme options. The perfectly feasible and realistic
options are in the works. I think that's sufficient latitude.

If you can't see all the messages on your newsreader, try reading
through google groups, as then you can see all the messages and you'll
find all the ones where we discussed those things I'm about to try. If
you don't feel like reading all the messages I can't blame you, but
you must also understand that if you jump into a discussion late, you
can't draw any conclusions as you've missed a lot.

Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way
things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down.
There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the
solution.

But everything is not so hard. I never said it was. There were plenty
of suggestions that were quite simple. Others took those a step
further to offer what they felt were simple suggestions, but in our
situation were not. I simply expained why those suggestions were not
realistic at this time. I haven't rejected the simpler suggestions at
all.

Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when
my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as
to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking.

Good for you.

Our house was not livable when we purchased it. We tore it down to the
studs. We rented for about 6 months, but could no longer afford to pay
a mortgage and rent and made the house livable. We are working on it
one room at a time, in the midst of having a family. There are a
variety of reasons why we chose the house we did, in the circumstances
we had. I have yet to complain about the house and am not 'blaming' it
for my daughter's sleep issues. I described it up only because the
suggestions some had didn't fit with our current housing circumstances
and it was clear from some responses that folks didn't quite
understand the type of housing situation we were in.

In article ,
cjra says...

On Mar 14, 2:49 pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Jamie Clark says...





"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article
,
cjra says...

On Mar 14, 9:12 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 6:53 am, "deja.blues" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort
and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.
???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to
do.

I mean like going to the effort of moving the large awkward difficult
to move bed into another room temporarily in the hopes that it will
make a difference.

Any possibility of making the other bed more comfortable?
A better mattress or mattress topper or some such thing?

Sure. We could lay out the cash for a new bed instead of on
construction materials for DD's room. But as I said, I really don't
want to go to such major extremes when it's a temporary fix which very
well may not work.

A mattress or mattress topper. She suggested a mattress or mattress
topper.
Not a whole bed.

When talking about mattresses, I refer to them as beds as well. So I
understood her to mean that she couldn't afford/didn't want to spend that
much money on a new bed/mattress. A new mattress can run a few thousand
dollars, so it's not a minor thing. Even a mattress pad or topper can be a
few hundred for a really good one. And if her dh is as picky as I am, you
can't just throw a $30 pad on top of a bed that you consider to be
uncomfortable -- it just doesn't do anything.

This is where I'm beginning to think you're discarding ideas too fast,
looking
for some magic fix.

With this, you might as well just put up with it until the house remod is
done.
Because you need to be of a mind to be giving any option a chance to work,
and
how it will be when all the work is done on the house is the only way you
seem
to really be able to envision things finally working.

Sometimes muddling through is the only thing that people seem to be able
to get
to work. For whatever reason. And it *is* an option. Folks here are
trying to
come up with *better* options for you, but it is an option.

Banty

I totally understand where she is coming from. She wants to start small and
simple and work up to the bigger possible solutions. As she said, it's like
going for brain surgery for a headache, or burning down your house to kill a
rat. Yes, it might solve the problem, but so would several other less
extreme measures. Obviously you want to solve the problem with the
easiest/fastest solution if at all possible. I'm sure if she discovers that
the easy solutions don't work, she'll keep trying other things until she
gets to the more difficult ones.

OK, thats fine.

It's just that when there are sooo many limits placed on a problem, it may never
converge to a solution.

Blame the engineer in me.

Not only are there things about the people involved being sensitive to various
things (not criticizing) that limit the options, theres all kinds of limits on
cost, effort, 'consumerism', etc. etc. I understand wanting to go for the
simplest effective solution. But one needs to give the problem enough latitude
to actually be able to *have* an effective solution at all!

I'm guessing you missed the first 20-30 or so posts in this thread,
where a number of solutions were offered and discussed, and I said I
was going to try some of them for a certain length of time to see how
they worked. Some I've already tried and they didn't work, so I'm on
to the next step. or they worked for awhile but now no longer.

I rejected other solutions as not feasible or just simply more extreme
than I felt was warranted initially. Those rejected solutions are what
led to more extreme options. The perfectly feasible and realistic
options are in the works. I think that's sufficient latitude.

I *have* been reading. Just not commenting as I didnt have the same issue. But
I think there is some reaching for the simple, but likely ineffective going on.
Like the failed dieter saying "i tried this; i tried that...."...


If you can't see all the messages on your newsreader, try reading
through google groups, as then you can see all the messages and you'll
find all the ones where we discussed those things I'm about to try. If
you don't feel like reading all the messages I can't blame you, but
you must also understand that if you jump into a discussion late, you
can't draw any conclusions as you've missed a lot.

Oh thank you very much :-/, after 15 years on Usenet without you I would have
had no clue how to read a newsgroup.


Which is when I say, if everything's so hard, consider just staying the way
things are since at least when the house is done things should settle down.
There's a natural time limit to the problem, so maybe sheer endurance is the
solution.

But everything is not so hard. I never said it was. There were plenty
of suggestions that were quite simple. Others took those a step
further to offer what they felt were simple suggestions, but in our
situation were not. I simply expained why those suggestions were not
realistic at this time. I haven't rejected the simpler suggestions at
all.

Now, myself as a mom who was single from the beginning and bought a house when
my son was 18 months old, I had the house remods done a little at a time, so as
to not corner myself with this kind of grand undertaking.

Good for you.

Our house was not livable when we purchased it. We tore it down to the
studs. We rented for about 6 months, but could no longer afford to pay
a mortgage and rent and made the house livable. We are working on it
one room at a time, in the midst of having a family. There are a
variety of reasons why we chose the house we did, in the circumstances
we had. I have yet to complain about the house and am not 'blaming' it
for my daughter's sleep issues. I described it up only because the
suggestions some had didn't fit with our current housing circumstances
and it was clear from some responses that folks didn't quite
understand the type of housing situation we were in.


Well, getting a pretty much livable house, although a fixer, would have been
easier (but I'm sure you'll list your reasons why you couldn't do *that*). But
that's water under the bridge. I'm guessing you just underestimated the amount
of upheaval all the remod would be. But that's just human.

All I'm saying is.. maybe the bottom line of all this is that, between changes
you can't, or won't, do, it doesnt really in the end matter all that much which
is which, and you can maybe just hold on until the house is all done.

Banty