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help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)



 
 
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  #61  
Old July 21st 03, 06:53 PM
external usenet poster
 
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Tiffany wrote:

Why is one need to be worse then the other?


YOU are the one who just said that what I was doing was worse.

Why does there have to be fault?


Again, YOU blamed ME, as usual.

I didn't say you abuse Paul, but again, you are only reading
what you want.


Yes you did. You said I name called by pointing out that he is a woman
abuser, and you equated that to him calling me a bitch, which I of course
think is not the same thing.

Why not answer my question on why you let this become
abuse?


It's not within my control to let it become anything, it is HIS
responsibility and HIS intention to make it so. It is HIS campaign of
hatred targeted at me and his fixation on me which is clear by his specific
name calling of me "Looney Lorain" and how he has dug up peterd's old name
calling of me "maroon" to continue that legacy of hate and how he uses my
women's studies education against me and my feminist ideals against me,
anything pertaining to anything womanly about me in particular not to the
other women on this newsgroup but only on me. That is abuse.


Why do you read posts or take it to heart when you don't even
know these people?


Would you say that about the positive posts on here? No? Then why would you
say it about the negative ones?




  #62  
Old July 21st 03, 06:55 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

Betsy wrote:

In regards to your health status, you can designate a Health Care
Surrogate, or Power of Attorney for Health Care. It does not have to
be a relative, but does have to be notarized. Usually that precludes
the 'next of kin' call. Instead they call your HCS. Your HCS can be
a friend you trust, your spouse, or a family member, or an adult
child. Just remember whomever you designate must be someone you
trust, and must know your wishes in an emergency. Hope this helped.

Betsy


thank you, now I have to find someone who I can really trust. isn't that
sad? sheesh. I can't say enough how much this information helps. thank you
again.


  #63  
Old July 21st 03, 07:05 PM
Cele
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Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:01:25 +0100, "Dennis Here"
youreply wrote:


CME wrote in message ...

And you know what? That's the risk you take, but what you need to do is
make him realize that if he's to live in your house, he needs to respect
your rules and really the choice is his. If he leaves or you kick him out,



Snip other good advice

I have to disagree here Christine as my POV is a lot different to yours.
I do not live in "my" house with my son, I live in our house. House rules
are two way, I don't set them, we agree to them. Obviously at Freddie's age
some basics are more my domain than his but at the age of Lorian's son, and
I have two grown sons go through this stage, there has to be a big element
of give and take based on mutual respect. It seems that going through an
angst stage where he has little respect for her or anyone else for that
matter. He is testing his limits and is finding that they are almost
limitless at the moment. He will not stop until he realises that treating
people with contempt if not the best way in life. He will be thinking, and
not without reason, that everyone around him is treating him with contempt
too. He thinks that he knows better than his mother and is ready and
confident enough to find out for himself. To us it is a dreadfull stage in
the development of an adolescent boy, to him it is merely testing the water
and establishing himself as an adult capable of finding his own way in life.
I left home a 16. I was fed up with the restrictions and expectations of my
father. We fought all the time. I disagreed with everything he said and
stood for. I was going to change the world. I would play Bob Dylan records
at full volume just to **** him off! To an outsider I was an arrogant
arsehole with a big attitude. To myself and my piers I was a self confident
ground breaker who new where he was going for myself.


I think I understand where you're coming from, Dennis, and I know that
a lot of what you say is often true. My ex husband, for example,
describes an extremely similar stage in his own development, at the
same age. His epiphany was interfered with as he broke his neck on the
second day of grade eleven, and spent the next eight months in
hospital dealing with having become a quadriplegic. But the times, the
feelings, the attitudes and behaviours he describes from that
pre-injury time seem very much to be what you're talking about. He
ended up spending that summer that he was sixteen putting up massive
bales of hay as a residential farm worker, and he reckons that time
away from home did him a great deal of good.

All that said, I'll just point out from my own experience, that
teenage acting out and traumatised, damaged teenage wigging out look
very, very different. I have daughters, not sons, as you know, but the
difference between the adolescent rebellion my eldest went through and
the wounded, completely out of control rage that my youngest
experienced, is very great. And it's quite often that parents who've
experienced normal range adolesence with all its rebellion and
downright obnoxiousness are unable to identify with parents dealing
with the other kind, at least IME.

Lorian's son doesn't sound like a normally rebellious teen to me.
Maybe he is, but he sounds over the top. I could be wrong, you could
be wrong. We're not there, and one of Lorian's many jobs is to work
out what exactly she's dealing with. I'm hearing her say that he's not
normal range, and that she's got a number of thoughts on why that
might be. What she does really does need to take into account what
she's dealing with.

I suppose the biggest breakthrough was made by my mother as I still remember
it clearly. After a full blast rendition of a Bob Dylan track entitled "My
back Pages" from the Anotherside of LP, she quietly said that she really
liked that one. I was thoroughly ****ed off that I had had the opposite
affect to that intended and went to listen to it again quietly. I had only
heard what I wanted to hear and completely overlooked the chorus.
Here are the words from
http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/backpages.html

Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon," said I
Proud 'neath heated brow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"Rip down all hate," I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Girls' faces formed the forward path
From phony jealousy
To memorizing politics
Of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists
Unthought of, though, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

My teenage hero had already seen the light! and my mother had seen it before
I had!

Lets hope that Lorian's son also has some kind of defining moment that he
will see for himself, however that may happen.


Yes, absolutely, let's hope so. I love that Dylan song myself, and so,
BTW, does my ex, referred to above. I suspect you and he might have
some other things in common. :-) He's a good guy; that's a compliment,
not an insult, just so you know.

Meanwhile, on the one hand, I agree that 'freeing' her son to go might
be the making of him. Many a youth has left a home out of control, and
found out a lot about themselves and life by going to the street for
awhile, and come back the wiser and stronger for it.

On the other hand, I totally identify with Lorian's fear of seeing him
follow that path. Your own reference to your friends who died tells us
that the street is not a place that all escape unscathed, and a
sixteen year old who has become badly confused and enraged might well
have experiences that do him great damage. It's as likely as his
having experiences that strengthen him.

The solution seems to be to 'let him go' but to seek a healthy place
to go to. Lorian appears to be doing that, within the limits of her
resources. I suspect that before a whole lot longer he'll decide the
matter himself, because gone seventeen, it's pretty hard to keep them
if they don't want to stay. And I hope earnestly for both of their
sakes that the choices he makes turn out in the end to help rather
than hurt his growth.

Cele
  #64  
Old July 21st 03, 07:08 PM
Rolly The Pervert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


Told you tiffany.

Don't bother replying to her, you'll only become an abuser yourself. More
then that, she snips out anythign relevant in her replies to disguise her BS
a bit better.

wrote in message
. net...
Tiffany wrote:

Why is one need to be worse then the other?


YOU are the one who just said that what I was doing was worse.

Why does there have to be fault?


Again, YOU blamed ME, as usual.

I didn't say you abuse Paul, but again, you are only reading
what you want.


Yes you did. You said I name called by pointing out that he is a woman
abuser, and you equated that to him calling me a bitch, which I of course
think is not the same thing.

Why not answer my question on why you let this become
abuse?


It's not within my control to let it become anything, it is HIS
responsibility and HIS intention to make it so. It is HIS campaign of
hatred targeted at me and his fixation on me which is clear by his

specific
name calling of me "Looney Lorain" and how he has dug up peterd's old name
calling of me "maroon" to continue that legacy of hate and how he uses my
women's studies education against me and my feminist ideals against me,
anything pertaining to anything womanly about me in particular not to the
other women on this newsgroup but only on me. That is abuse.


Why do you read posts or take it to heart when you don't even
know these people?


Would you say that about the positive posts on here? No? Then why would

you
say it about the negative ones?






  #65  
Old July 21st 03, 08:16 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:53:10 GMT, wrote:

Tiffany wrote:

Why is one need to be worse then the other?


YOU are the one who just said that what I was doing was worse.

Why does there have to be fault?


Again, YOU blamed ME, as usual.

I didn't say you abuse Paul, but again, you are only reading
what you want.


Yes you did. You said I name called by pointing out that he is a woman
abuser, and you equated that to him calling me a bitch, which I of course
think is not the same thing.

Why not answer my question on why you let this become
abuse?


It's not within my control to let it become anything, it is HIS
responsibility and HIS intention to make it so.


I could be wrong, and I'm sure Tiffany will correct me if I am, but I
think she may be making a point about giving the comments power rather
than, exactly, letting them become abuse.

I've made myself extremely clear on this issue in the past, so I won't
bore everyone with a repeat. My position is expressed here, if anyone
cares:
http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=Pau...x.co m&rnum=1

However much Paul et.al. have complete control of and responsibility
for their behaviour, Lorian, you have control of how much power you
assign them. Are their remarks worth giving them any power at all? Not
allowing them power means not allowing them the privilege of hurting
you.

If you see what I mean. :-/

Take care.

Cele


Would you say that about the positive posts on here? No? Then why would you
say it about the negative ones?


The positive posts come from another place, and are worthy of
consideration. As are some that also come from the spirit of support
or assistance, but that are hard to hear.

But the bullying isn't worth giving power to. Not just with you, in
this situation. In general, with everyone. Bullying is low and foul.
Why afford it any power or dignity at all?

Cele
  #66  
Old July 21st 03, 08:18 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:50:16 -0500, 'Kate
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:35:00 -0400, "Rolly The Pervert"
wasted bandwidth once again by posting:


wrote in message news:GHISa.96500$GL4.27021@rwcrnsc53...
Rolly The Pervert wrote:
wrote in message
news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03...
Lisa aka Surfer wrote:

Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from
the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the
point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well
these days!!!!

Lisa

Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusiveslap

And what you gonna do about it?



**** off bitch

So, calling me a bitch is ok with the group? It's my fault for failing to
ignore him? Tell me why it isn't his fault.



You are a bitch, and a lying netk00k kunt.

More then that, your a lonney maroon. Go take your meds looney lorain.


Worse than a vulture pickin' on carrion.


Glad to see you back, Kate. I hope you are doing as well as possible.
I think of you.

And oh, btw, this was beautifully expressed. :-)

Cele
  #67  
Old July 21st 03, 08:21 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:56:44 GMT, wrote:

Tiffany wrote:
wrote in message
news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03...
Lisa aka Surfer wrote:

Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from
the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the
point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well
these days!!!!

Lisa

Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusive to me on here
as always and I won't put up with it from you either. And I was
able to resolve things with Betsy as I apologized for my sarcasm and
she did get through to me in email. Because she did truly care for
me and my son's best interests. You never have. You have always
been catty and superior and very hurtful to me and I will not allow
you to continue to do that to me here.





L, you need to let go of this 'being abused online' stuff. No one can
hurt you unless you let them, online. Don't read their posts for god
sake.


Hey, don't take the responsibility off of Lisa and put it on me Tiffany.
Lisa has a very long history of being cruel to me in her posts to me. She
doesn't need to waste bandwidth targeting me when I am at my most vulnerable
with hurtful remarks but she does it all the time. There is no difference
between if she said it to me online or in the mail or on the telephone or to
my face, words hurt. Get in her face, not mine.

Tiffany really seems to be trying to help. It's not your job to cure
them of abusive behaviour. That's *their* job. I think Tiffany's point
might be along the lines of letting go of it for *your* sake. Who
cares whether they deal with their issues? You don't have to fix them.
And abusive behaviour is *their* issue. It's *them* that has
responsibility for that. Forget 'em. It's not about deciding fault.
Any idiot can see they're abusive. It's about deciding how much power
to give their behaviour.

Cele
  #68  
Old July 21st 03, 08:36 PM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


Cele wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:53:10 GMT, wrote:

Tiffany wrote:

Why is one need to be worse then the other?


YOU are the one who just said that what I was doing was worse.

Why does there have to be fault?


Again, YOU blamed ME, as usual.

I didn't say you abuse Paul, but again, you are only reading
what you want.


Yes you did. You said I name called by pointing out that he is a woman
abuser, and you equated that to him calling me a bitch, which I of course
think is not the same thing.

Why not answer my question on why you let this become
abuse?


It's not within my control to let it become anything, it is HIS
responsibility and HIS intention to make it so.


I could be wrong, and I'm sure Tiffany will correct me if I am, but I
think she may be making a point about giving the comments power rather
than, exactly, letting them become abuse.

I've made myself extremely clear on this issue in the past, so I won't
bore everyone with a repeat. My position is expressed here, if anyone
cares:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=Pau...t.support. si
ngle-parents&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=uc8a6v4g11csnb09ea6iiv4lkqbaoh1an9%404a
x.com&rnum=1

However much Paul et.al. have complete control of and responsibility
for their behaviour, Lorian, you have control of how much power you
assign them. Are their remarks worth giving them any power at all? Not
allowing them power means not allowing them the privilege of hurting
you.

If you see what I mean. :-/

Take care.

Cele


Would you say that about the positive posts on here? No? Then why would

you
say it about the negative ones?


The positive posts come from another place, and are worthy of
consideration. As are some that also come from the spirit of support
or assistance, but that are hard to hear.

But the bullying isn't worth giving power to. Not just with you, in
this situation. In general, with everyone. Bullying is low and foul.
Why afford it any power or dignity at all?

Cele


Thats about right. Thank you Cele, as I am tired of trying to explain this.


  #69  
Old July 21st 03, 08:41 PM
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)


Cele wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:56:44 GMT, wrote:

Tiffany wrote:
wrote in message
news:KDDSa.107753$N7.14512@sccrnsc03...
Lisa aka Surfer wrote:

Well done, Tom. You have a bigger heart than I, it was clear from
the very first reply from Betsy that she wasn't going to get the
point. Yet you still took the time. Man oh man you're doing well
these days!!!!

Lisa

Actually, Lisa, you and Tom are as emotionally abusive to me on here
as always and I won't put up with it from you either. And I was
able to resolve things with Betsy as I apologized for my sarcasm and
she did get through to me in email. Because she did truly care for
me and my son's best interests. You never have. You have always
been catty and superior and very hurtful to me and I will not allow
you to continue to do that to me here.





L, you need to let go of this 'being abused online' stuff. No one can
hurt you unless you let them, online. Don't read their posts for god
sake.


Hey, don't take the responsibility off of Lisa and put it on me Tiffany.
Lisa has a very long history of being cruel to me in her posts to me.

She
doesn't need to waste bandwidth targeting me when I am at my most

vulnerable
with hurtful remarks but she does it all the time. There is no

difference
between if she said it to me online or in the mail or on the telephone or

to
my face, words hurt. Get in her face, not mine.

Tiffany really seems to be trying to help. It's not your job to cure
them of abusive behaviour. That's *their* job. I think Tiffany's point
might be along the lines of letting go of it for *your* sake. Who
cares whether they deal with their issues? You don't have to fix them.
And abusive behaviour is *their* issue. It's *them* that has
responsibility for that. Forget 'em. It's not about deciding fault.
Any idiot can see they're abusive. It's about deciding how much power
to give their behaviour.

Cele


Again, yes.


  #70  
Old July 21st 03, 10:50 PM
Karen O'Mara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

"Tiffany" wrote in message ...
Err... here we go again. To me, no name calling is ok but I can't control
what Roy types or what Paul types nor would I want to. There is no one to be
at fault here. You have name called also though, maybe not using b---- but
you called Paul a women abuser which is pretty harsh. More so then being a
bitch as most women confess to being a bitch. You are dealing with alot
right now.... why make it worse by dealing with negative posts?


Negative *anything* avoid like the plague now, Lorian. Goodness
gracious, you want to pop a vein or something?

Think, feel, live positive. Surround yourself with positivity. Some
stuff you can't avoid, I know.

Karen
 




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