My 3.4 yr old ds says NO to potty training

On Apr 26, 8:21 am, Banty wrote:
In article , LaTreen Washington says...



Bright kids don't **** in their pants.

Your child is retarded.

Three years old and you want to ship him off already. Why did you breed if
you're just going to farm the kid off somewhere?

Someone posting under the moniker "Latreen" should be an expert in toilets
alright ;-)

Thanks for the all the advice. For the record my emphasis on NEED was
because he he has been going to a wonderful 2 year old nursery school
program since he was 21 months and he has the regularity of three days
a week of full socialization and structure which he truly enjoys. I
don't want the summer months to interfere with that. The summer camp
is wonderful, in town where he will now have an opportunity to be at
'camp' at his future elementary school and meeting the kids in town he
will school with. They are adamant about toilet training. We've
already started to ignore the rebellion and gotten rid of the
pullups. He very much wants to go to summer camp but we are no longer
saying anything. He gets it totally. And those who say he is
'playing me' are absolutely correct. He's always been a surpisingly
clever negotiator. So, now I'm casual about asking him if he wants to
use the potty, he says, 'no' I say 'fine.' But I'm not going the
route of brow beating and diminishing his entire person as a 'baby'
because of his first and very normal power play. I don't agree with
that philosophy and think it is counterproductive. With the warmer
weather we are going to go the bare bottom route. (Interestingly, if
he is playing with this friends who are using the potty and their
mother's...which I have encouraged...ask him if he wants to go...he
will sit on the potty, take his own diaper off saying he is a big boy,
shoots me a knowing look across the room....and then sits. May not
go, but he sits. So, I'm just feeling a little frustrated because I
know he will love summer camp in town.

"Boliath" wrote in message
...
Knit Chic wrote:
"Boliath" wrote in message
...

Grahame wrote:

If you KNOW for sure its just rebellion then I would take drastic steps.
When he gets up the next morning, I would tell him, he has decided to be
a baby by wearing nappies, or peeing and pooing in his pants, so you
will have to treat him like a baby now.
So when he gets up, give him a bottle, and stick him back in bed.
If he gets up shut the door, keep telling him, kids who pee and poo in
their pants have to stay in bed ALL DAY like a baby, cannot play with
toys cannot watch tv cause they are too little.
Anything he wants to do as a 3 yr old he cannot do now cause he is a
baby. If he wants to do more he has to go to the toilet.
My nephew was 3 when he pulled this caper. Treating him as a baby lasted
1 morning. By lunch he agreed to use the toilet. But if it takes him
longer be prepared to do this for a few days at least.

All the best

Fiona

That's a bit harsh. It reminds me of the nuns putting nappies on kids who
cried after they got slapped then sent them out to the playground at
break time where all the other kids crowded around and laughed at them,
this kind of humiliation is destructive and wounding on a very deep
level.


wow, that was quite a game of leapster.

You think? Didn't mean to do that, it makes sense to me, treating someone
like a baby to humiliate them into behaving. Maybe you had to be there.

I guess it was the hitting and putting a kid in front of other kids to
humiliate them that I must have missed. While I wouldn't do what was
suggested, I have treated my children the age they were acting. That is not
at all the same his hitting and public humiliation.

In article .com, Mom2Max
says...

On Apr 26, 8:21 am, Banty wrote:
In article , LaTreen Washington says...



Bright kids don't **** in their pants.

Your child is retarded.

Three years old and you want to ship him off already. Why did you breed if
you're just going to farm the kid off somewhere?

Someone posting under the moniker "Latreen" should be an expert in toilets
alright ;-)

Thanks for the all the advice. For the record my emphasis on NEED was
because he he has been going to a wonderful 2 year old nursery school
program since he was 21 months and he has the regularity of three days
a week of full socialization and structure which he truly enjoys. I
don't want the summer months to interfere with that. The summer camp
is wonderful, in town where he will now have an opportunity to be at
'camp' at his future elementary school and meeting the kids in town he
will school with.

OK - the summer camp thing would be nice, but it's not a need. Let alone a
"NEED"

There's no rush to get him familliar with the kids he'll be going to school
with. The camp will have only some of them, some of those will have moved by
the time K or 1st grade comes up, and a five or six year old is pretty plastic
about friendships anyway. (As in, gosh, you're worried about his social
contacts? - are you printing up business cards for him already?? ;-)

So I'd see if he's trained or not by the last sign up date (or drop date,
whatever), and do it or not, accordingly. And save yourself a lot of agita
about it.

They are adamant about toilet training.

Well, they're probably not set up for diaper changing. And my hunch is that
three is at the very bottom of their age group anyway - am I right?

We've
already started to ignore the rebellion and gotten rid of the
pullups. He very much wants to go to summer camp but we are no longer
saying anything. He gets it totally. And those who say he is
'playing me' are absolutely correct. He's always been a surpisingly
clever negotiator. So, now I'm casual about asking him if he wants to
use the potty, he says, 'no' I say 'fine.'

Sounds good.

But I'm not going the
route of brow beating and diminishing his entire person as a 'baby'
because of his first and very normal power play. I don't agree with
that philosophy and think it is counterproductive.

That's right, you're smart to have recognized that. You can't make someone do
bodily functions, and it's a really a bad kind of interaction betweeen parent
and child that demands that intrusively high a level of control. Possibly
pathological, even...

With the warmer
weather we are going to go the bare bottom route. (Interestingly, if
he is playing with this friends who are using the potty and their
mother's...which I have encouraged...ask him if he wants to go...he
will sit on the potty, take his own diaper off saying he is a big boy,
shoots me a knowing look across the room....and then sits. May not
go, but he sits. So, I'm just feeling a little frustrated because I
know he will love summer camp in town.


Wait and see. He can do it next year, right?

Banty

On Apr 25, 8:03 am, Mom2Max wrote:
My son has known exactly what he needs to do since 18 months. The
healthy curiosity, has done both on the potty, gets his rewards. Now
it is justu a major powerplay.

I wish I had answers for you. About all I can do is empathize and
suggest to avoid the diapers and pull-ups and stick with underwear.
My 3.5 yo pee trained almost overnight before his 3rd birthday.
However, he only figured out peeing, not pooping. He didn't have a
peeing accident for over 2 months, day or night. We tried incentives
at first to get him to poop in the toilet, but he wasn't interested,
so we tried the "back off" approach that everyone suggests. After 2
months, we got very tired of washing out underwear everyday and
reverted back to pull-ups to make cleanup easier and to keep us from
making a big deal of it. All that did was make him lazy. He stopped
telling us he needed to go, he started peeing in the pull-ups, and he
started peeing at night. After a few weeks of that, we decided we
should just go back to the underwear so we could at least get back to
where we had been before and we resolved not to make any issues out of
the accidents. Well, over 4 months later, we've made no progress
whatsoever. He has pooped in the toilet twice in the last 7 months,
he has peeing accidents about every other day, and he still pees at
night. But we're still low-key about it, hoping it will click with
him eventually. Everyone loves to give the advice to "back off" and
they make it seem like some magic trick that makes it all fall into
place. Well, after 6 months (which is quite a long time in a 3 yo's
life), I'm not seeing the magic. I hope this isn't too discouraging.
I just thought it might help to hear that someone else is going
through the same thing.

Annie

On 26 Apr 2007 12:00:56 -0700, annie wrote:

On Apr 25, 8:03 am, Mom2Max wrote:

him eventually. Everyone loves to give the advice to "back off" and
they make it seem like some magic trick that makes it all fall into
place. Well, after 6 months (which is quite a long time in a 3 yo's
life), I'm not seeing the magic. I hope this isn't too discouraging.
I just thought it might help to hear that someone else is going
through the same thing.

I will have to agree with you. It's easy to think what works with our own
child will work with all other children.

If I were you, I'd be tempted to try adding some incentives, not that you
might not have already done so. Maybe those pee targets they sell? You
could introduce it as a new "toy." He has to pee on it to make it work.

DS loved picking out his own padded toilet seat. After we bought it, he
was on it every five minutes because he wanted to use it so badly. DD
likes them because of the characters.

As for pooping, we started out with DD only knowing how to pee in the
potty. We'd put her in diapers for naps and then she'd take that as her
chance to poop. For a few weeks, she'd only poop during naps or at night.
I think it was because she was waiting for her diaper. We made no issue of
it, but we made a big deal whenever it happened to come out in the toilet
and she eventually got it.

Mom2Max wrote:

Thanks for the all the advice. For the record my emphasis on NEED was
because he he has been going to a wonderful 2 year old nursery school
program since he was 21 months and he has the regularity of three days
a week of full socialization and structure which he truly enjoys. I
don't want the summer months to interfere with that. The summer camp
is wonderful, in town where he will now have an opportunity to be at
'camp' at his future elementary school and meeting the kids in town he
will school with. They are adamant about toilet training. We've
already started to ignore the rebellion and gotten rid of the
pullups. He very much wants to go to summer camp but we are no longer
saying anything. He gets it totally.

My dd#2 at 2 was perfectly able to hold everything for all day (and
would). She would only go in her diaper at the end of her nap and
when she waked up in the morning. She absolutely refused to use the
toilet although she knew how to. I just ignored the whole thing and
left her in diapers. (It was easier than arguing.)

There was a nursery school that her older sister went to that would
let a child come at 2.5 if they were trained. DD#2 wanted to go to
nursery school with dd#1. When she was 2.5, as soon as I told her she
could go to nursery with her sister if she would sit on the toilet,
she was instantly trained. I think she had maybe one accident and
that was it.

And those who say he is
'playing me' are absolutely correct. He's always been a surpisingly
clever negotiator. So, now I'm casual about asking him if he wants to
use the potty, he says, 'no' I say 'fine.' But I'm not going the
route of brow beating and diminishing his entire person as a 'baby'
because of his first and very normal power play. I don't agree with
that philosophy and think it is counterproductive. With the warmer
weather we are going to go the bare bottom route. (Interestingly, if
he is playing with this friends who are using the potty and their
mother's...which I have encouraged...ask him if he wants to go...he
will sit on the potty, take his own diaper off saying he is a big boy,
shoots me a knowing look across the room....and then sits. May not
go, but he sits. So, I'm just feeling a little frustrated because I
know he will love summer camp in town.

Everyone loves to give the advice to "back off" and
they make it seem like some magic trick that makes it all fall into
place.

but you can only back off if there is something to back off from, you've
always been low key, so you can't back off and never have done, you've just
chosen a low key method, it's not right for every child, but for the child
who is clearly having a power struggle with a parent who is fairly intense
about it, backing off does seem to be the top method, not the solution
everytime, but sucessful enough that it's the first to try. Maybe your child
needs a more intense method, with bribes, rewards and so on?

Anne

"Mom2Max" wrote in message
oups.com...
My son has known exactly what he needs to do since 18 months. The
healthy curiosity, has done both on the potty, gets his rewards. Now
it is justu a major powerplay.

Can he go stay with grandma My first son and I were in a similar
situation and he got over the hump when we spent a weekend with grandma.
Him and her had none of the history, none of the power struggles or
anything. He did it to please her and there was no reason to want to do
anything but please her. We did have some trouble with poop accidents.
For some reason he would go sit/hide in a corner rather then go to the
bathroom.


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06

Anne Rogers wrote:
Everyone loves to give the advice to "back off" and
they make it seem like some magic trick that makes it all fall into
place.

but you can only back off if there is something to back off from, you've
always been low key, so you can't back off and never have done, you've just
chosen a low key method, it's not right for every child, but for the child
who is clearly having a power struggle with a parent who is fairly intense
about it, backing off does seem to be the top method, not the solution
everytime, but sucessful enough that it's the first to try. Maybe your child
needs a more intense method, with bribes, rewards and so on?

That may be the case. For my first, it took going cold
turkey. He just wasn't going to make the commitment on his own.
Nevertheless, it's not clear to me that the OP has, in fact,
always been low key. Clearly that was the strategy she chose,
but equally clearly she isn't really fine with whatever the
child chooses. She's powerfully motivated for him to potty
train ASAP and very concerned that he won't. Kids are very
perceptive, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit that her son
would pick up on her feelings even though she was trying to
present an impression of being nonchalant about it. We're
just not always as good at acting as we'd like to be (or
need to be!) in these situations ;-)
Clearly, backing off isn't the only (or even always
the best) strategy for potty training. It is a way to defuse
a power struggle, but it only works for that if the parent
can truly let go of the desire/need for the child to potty
train (or the parent is a mighty fine actor--which few of
us are, at least when compared to the acute perceptiveness
of our children). If the parent really does want the child
to potty train, then another strategy may be required,
depending on the personality of the child.

Best wishes,
Ericka

On Apr 28, 12:55 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Anne Rogers wrote:
Everyone loves to give the advice to "back off" and
they make it seem like some magic trick that makes it all fall into
place.

but you can only back off if there is something to back off from, you've
always been low key, so you can't back off and never have done, you've just
chosen a low key method, it's not right for every child, but for the child
who is clearly having a power struggle with a parent who is fairly intense
about it, backing off does seem to be the top method, not the solution
everytime, but sucessful enough that it's the first to try. Maybe your child
needs a more intense method, with bribes, rewards and so on?

That may be the case. For my first, it took going cold
turkey. He just wasn't going to make the commitment on his own.
Nevertheless, it's not clear to me that the OP has, in fact,
always been low key. Clearly that was the strategy she chose,
but equally clearly she isn't really fine with whatever the
child chooses. She's powerfully motivated for him to potty
train ASAP and very concerned that he won't. Kids are very
perceptive, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit that her son
would pick up on her feelings even though she was trying to
present an impression of being nonchalant about it. We're
just not always as good at acting as we'd like to be (or
need to be!) in these situations ;-)
Clearly, backing off isn't the only (or even always
the best) strategy for potty training. It is a way to defuse
a power struggle, but it only works for that if the parent
can truly let go of the desire/need for the child to potty
train (or the parent is a mighty fine actor--which few of
us are, at least when compared to the acute perceptiveness
of our children). If the parent really does want the child
to potty train, then another strategy may be required,
depending on the personality of the child.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Interestingly, we were reading a book last night (and yes I am a good
actress!) and saw a picture of a dancer...he loves to dance...and I
said, would you like to take dance lessons? And he said, 'yes'. I
said, OK, as soon as you start wearing underwear all the time and make
on the potty then you'll take dancing lessons. He looked at me
thoughtfully and we went back to reading the book. He is starting to
make the association that there are things he won't be able to do
until he's wearing underpants and it's that simple. He also will say
things when he is proud of something he has done, "I'm a big boy."
And I say, "when it comes to many things, you are, in others you'll be
a big boy soon." Again, that knowing look. Every morning I ask him
if he wants to use the potty and yesterday morning he went right
there, undressed and sat for 30 minutes. Later in the day, same
question, 'no' and I don't push it. So, we will see what happens over
the next two weeks.