Friendship problem for my 9 year old

Aula wrote:
"Vickie" wrote in message
ps.com...
But, then again she did just call me. Dammit this sucks. Whatever
the case though, I will not be involving my daughter to play with her,
not to be mean or anything, just go her own way.


Perhaps the best help you can give her at this time, and I mean the mother,
is to give her the contact information for the local women's crisis shelter
and encourage her to get out of there before she can't. If she has excuses
like she has no way to support the kids, tell her there is welfare for the
time being, and crisis centers often have other methods of helping abused
people get back on their feet financially. Money should not be holding her
back.

-Aula

Excellent comments. I totally agree.

Also, the crisis center isn't just for abused females. The crisis
centers are also for abused males, too.

I think Vickie's correct when she says that the troubled kid's mom isn't
able to deal with the situation. She clearly needs help, but with the
violence, Vickie's not the one to provide it.

jeff

On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote:
Hello all,

Hope you all can come up with some good advice on this one.

My 9 year old has had a friendship with a troubled girl since
Kindergarten. This little girl's family is a mess and has now reached
a pivotal point for me.

In kindergarten, my child and this friend became close, and it was a
deceit friendship. As time rolled on I noticed a change in my
daughter. She was very confident in herself, then not so much. When
I talked with her about it she told me of this little girl and how she
would play with my daughter then on-a-dime change tactics and tell her
she was not her friend anymore. It was a typical *kids are mean*
scenario.

When I met her mom on occasion during drop offs, etc., she started to
tell me of her problems, not the girl's, but her own. She was a
recovering drug addicted/alcohol abuser. She had done some crazy
things in her life, before and after having her kids. The husband was
in and out of the picture, with the same problems, and had done a lot
of jail time.

I didn't want to dissolve the friendship between the girls and was
hoping the mom would stay recovered and things would be fine.

During this time I would have the little girl over every now and then
and it always ended up in fights. I started getting calls from her
mom if I could pick-up her daughter and bring her home, or she was
having a bad day and could her 2 daughters stay over, because she
needed a break. And a few times asked for money.

The mom did not stay recovered and you could see the results in her
daughter. She would become very mean toward my daughter on occasion.
My response was for my daughter to walk away during these times and to
make some new friends to play with when this happened.

By the end second grade my daughter was a mess with the taunts and
name calling this girl was giving her. I said it was time to cut ties
for awhile.

Third grade, which I think is a hard year, my daughter has turned some
corners, made some good friends, and gained some confidence back. Of
course, she gets mean looks and confrontations every once in awhile
from this little girl, but she took the high road, and I am proud of
her.

The last few weeks, this little girl has tried to become friends again
with my daughter. My daughter is very wary of doing this. And sure
enough the, *You are a brat, you are bossy, don't be a know-it-all,
why do you like HER, etc.* has started again. So once again I told my
daughter, it is just not a good relationship, to be polite, but back
off and hang around her other friends.

I received a call yesterday, from little girls mom, telling me my
daughter had said she was not allowed to play with her daughter
anymore. I told her that I felt they were just not seeing eye to eye
on things and needed another break. She said she understood and had
told her daughter it didn't mean they would not see each other over
the summer or talk on the phone.

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?

Hope some of you stayed with me. I know I wrote a lot. Just trying
to give you the big picture.

Thanks,
Vickie

I would not let my child go to their house or play while not in my
presence or on my property period. I would also have a talk with my
child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how
different her friend has it. Then I would invite the girl over and
have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen
eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let
the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being
mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing
toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay
and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a
bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at
my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could
offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting. There is
a young boy that my child has been sharing stories about since
kindergarten, 4 years now. My child is completely aware of why this
boy is the way he is. Long story short--he is being raised by his
grandparents (and has been all along) and his mother died last year.
While I can understand why this child needs a bit of compassion, I
also do not allow people to enable him to cross the line with my
child. When I was told that he was using extremely foul language and
left a mark on my child, I went to school and shared that while I
understand the child needs compassion, a line needs to be drawn as to
how far he can go before someone steps in and offers the guidance that
he needs. He spends much time in the principal's office these days,
but my child knows why this child is so angry, ill-mannered, and
outright nasty. There is another neighborhood child that has absent
parents and he knows what is acceptable at my house and what behavior
of his is acceptable in order to maintain a friendship with my son. He
asked him to do something once on the bus that my son was sure to get
into trouble for. My son did not do it and shared it with me. He came
knocking to play that day and I explained that if he were truly my
son's friend, he would not ask him to do things that could get him
into trouble. I told him that as long as we kept things on the up-and-
up, he was always welcome at my house. He said he understood. I don't
let my child play at his house. Since these initial conversations took
place, he has become a much nicer and more polite little guy. He drove
my husband absolutely nuts, but when I think back to my childhood,
there were significant people that I can't even name that did certain
very little things or said certain very little things to me that hit
home, stood out, remained in my memory banks, and also helped shape me
into the person I wanted to be and into the person I am.

On Jun 1, 8:38 pm, Chris wrote:
- Show quoted text -

Wow. You are certainly a very good person. I am pretty sure I lived
up to those standards for a full two years. And as much as my heart
goes out to the little girl, I don't think I can be the one to help
her cope. I had really tried to give as much as I could with her and
their family, then when my daughter showed signs of anxiety I needed
to cut off the friendship. I felt it wasn't healthy for her. And,
right or wrong, I was also starting to feel used. I have 3 kids of my
own under 10, with some hiccups in my marriage, which I am now happy
to say are on the right course. I had toted her kids around, had them
over for sleepovers, and lent over a few $100.00's, all from her
asking. I just feel drained of this relationship, where I seem to be
only involved in the crisis moments. Does that even make sense?

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. And I think in writing
this out, it has helped me see what I need to do. I have posted at
another site, where I know a teacher and I am getting her advice on
maybe approaching this little girl's teacher. It is what I feel most
comfortable with. And if all works out, hopefully the girls will get
what they need, but not necessarily from me.

Vickie

On Jun 2, 12:10?am, Vickie wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:38 pm, Chris wrote:

- Show quoted text -

Wow. You are certainly a very good person. I am pretty sure I lived
up to those standards for a full two years. And as much as my heart
goes out to the little girl, I don't think I can be the one to help
her cope. I had really tried to give as much as I could with her and
their family, then when my daughter showed signs of anxiety I needed
to cut off the friendship. I felt it wasn't healthy for her. And,
right or wrong, I was also starting to feel used. I have 3 kids of my
own under 10, with some hiccups in my marriage, which I am now happy
to say are on the right course. I had toted her kids around, had them
over for sleepovers, and lent over a few $100.00's, all from her
asking. I just feel drained of this relationship, where I seem to be
only involved in the crisis moments. Does that even make sense?

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. And I think in writing
this out, it has helped me see what I need to do. I have posted at
another site, where I know a teacher and I am getting her advice on
maybe approaching this little girl's teacher. It is what I feel most
comfortable with. And if all works out, hopefully the girls will get
what they need, but not necessarily from me.

Vickie

It makes TOTAL sense Vickie. You have certainly went above and beyond
as it is.

On Jun 1, 9:55 pm, Chris wrote:


It makes TOTAL sense Vickie. You have certainly went above and beyond
as it is.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Oh, good. That helps immensely. I have a terrible time with guilt
sometimes and it helps to know some would do the same as I, or at
least that it make some sense.

Vickie

In article . com,
Vickie wrote:

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.

So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?

I don't think you should make excuses, if by that you mean telling lies of the
'I have to wash my hair' variety.

I do think you should talk to your DD's teacher. Most likely, the school
spotted them as screwed-up the minute they walked in and the little girl
already has a file. Tell them what the mother told you. Two reasons
--firstly, so the school knows (if they don't already) -- and secondly, so
that they can work out if it is true. It is possible that the mother was lying
to you to get some sympathy (did you see new scars on her neck?). The school
staff are (I assume) mandatory reporters and will have access to services for
the girl.

Play dates are really a separate issue. Does your DD actually *want* play
dates with this girl? If she doesn't, you can say so to the mother: "DD
isn't close to your daughter and doesn't really want to have a play date with
her." If it isn't that dire, but your DD is very wary, aim to meet at a
park/pool/cinema etc instead of at a house. If the other girl's behaviour
deteriorates, you can go home, but do explain to the girl why you are leaving.
She doesn't necessarily know what is right and wrong -- most likely, she
thinks that might (or manipulation) is right.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

"Vickie" wrote in message
ups.com...

Then, the big news. She told me her daughter really needed my
daughter's friendship right now because a couple months ago, her
husband, on drugs, came over, while the little girl was there, and
attacked her (the mom). She said he had a knife, stabbed her, slashed
her neck, threw her around, while she screamed for the little girl to
call 911. I was horrified and felt so bad for her. But, as a mom, a
kept focusing on her 2 girls and asking if they were getting the
therapy they needed. She kept blowing that off and talking about
herself and how horrible it was for her. I agree but I was really
focused on the little girl who saw all of this happening. I couldn't
even figure out if the mom had even tried to get counseling for the
girls.


Are you sure this is true? She could be making this up to manipulate you and
your daughter.

"Vickie" wrote in message
oups.com...


I think the threat of her husband is in the background now, with his
being incarcerated. She has welfare, food stamps, etc. I am pretty
sure she has called someone on her behalf for help. I remember her
saying something about being on a waiting list and going to a group
therapy session for women. I don't want to sound like I don't care at
all about her or her welfare, but I am not a close friend of hers, but
my daughter at one time was friends with hers, so that is where my
mind goes - how are the girls holding up, are they getting the help
they need.


Oh yeah, you had said he was going to be incarcerated. For some reason I
thought he wasn't there yet. Even so, if she gets help she is more likely
to both see the value of treatment and general help for her kids and to
sustain a pursuit of it. I don't blame you in the least if you hold your
daughter at a distance from that family. BTDT.

-Aula

"Stephanie" wrote in message
news:ts_7i.19$fX4.17@trndny03...

"Vickie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 1, 10:24 am, Jeff wrote:

I think what is going on here is that the girl is testing your daughter.
She is scared that your daughter will back away or stop acting like
her friend. Considering all the stuff she has had to put up with, I
don't blame her. So, basically, she is acting normally for 9-year old
girl who has had a lot of relationship problems with her mom, her dad
and kids at school. You would too if you had all the issues she does.

It's not your job or your daughter's job to provide counseling for
another person's daughter. That is essentially what she is asking you to
do.

Part of me is saying that the girl will be in big trouble if someone
doesn't step in and help her. Obviously, the mother is not doing it. You
might be the only one who will be able to help.

Part of me is saying that if you get more involved, you'll only set up
yourself and your daughter for more heartache. And you probably won't
make a difference.

I think I would make a two-part plan. I would call child protective
services or what state or local agency protects kids, and fill them in.
They may be able to step in and help. It's their job, not yours.
Whatever, happens, end of part 1.

And I would get a backbone and say that you're not going to let girl see
your daughter until the girl and her sister (and maybe the mother, too)
get into counseling.

If that happens, I would be expecting a lot of acting out when she gets
to your home. She is going to test her welcome very much. However, once
she knows that she is truly welcome, she may stop acting out so much and
have much better behavior.

Whether you want to cave in and the girl see your daughter if she
doesn't get counseling is up to you to decide later.

These are just my thoughts.

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I appreciate your thoughts.

Gosh, calling child protective services. I don't know. I almost want
to just pay myself for the girl to go to a therapist, but I don't
think I am strong enough to handle a whole set of someone else's
problems along with my own family dynamic.




Child Protective Services is, indeed, a very scary prospect. Very scary.
That said... man knifes mom blood everywhere and 9yo has to phone 911.
Someone *else* might do something. But then again, maybe they won't.
Counseling over this one event is necessary, to be sure.

I would have thought if this was the situation then the police would have
been involved and I'd have thought that police would have informed CPS at
least. If nothing else some provision must have been made for the children
while mum was in hospital.
I wonder how much you trust the stories she tells. Not saying they're
entirely fake, just maybe exaggerated for sympathy.
It sounds to me like they do need help, whether or not this is true, but I
agree you're not the one to do it. It needs professionals to help properly.
As your daughter has other friends now I'd encourage her to keep those
friends. It sounds to me as if this other girl could expect her to drop
everyone else if they're friends-as you might expect because she probably
needs the security of not thinking your daughter might "go off" with someone
else.
I think I'd explain to my daughter that this other girl has a hard home
life-don't need to go into details, she may have had them anyway. Suggest if
she tells her anything that upsets her about homelife then to tell someone
else-either you or a teacher. Ask her to be kind to her, if she's on her own
invite her to join in, maybe do some work together. But at the same time
encourage her to walk away if she's being nasty, and not to break with other
friends. Make sure she is seeing plenty of other friends so she has plenty
of others to go with. And I would speak to the teachers, just to say please
watch this friendship, as there has been nastiness here. They should know a
bit about the homelife of the other girl anyway.

Calling CPS isn't a bad idea, but it does seem hard to do. Is there
something like "The Samaritans" (volunteer councelling telephone service in
UK) that you could talk it through with? They maight even do the informing
the CPS for you so if she says "did you tell them" you can honestly say
"no".

Debbie

I know calling CPS is hard. I have done it. As a child care provider, I am
a mandatory reporter. I can share my experience in case it helps you to
decide what you need to do. This is how it worked at my state. Don't know
if yours is the same. They may take your name. They had to take my name,
in my case. I don't know if that is always the case. They do NOT tell the
other party who made the report. In my case, I fessed up. The Mom would
have been able to figure it out anyway. So details of your story may give
a clue to the Mom. They ask you what you heard, saw and whatnot. They do
not ask you for your judgments. Very only the facts Maam. Very
professional.




You really think calling would be ok?


Your only decision is to report or not report what you know. THEIR
decision is whether or not children need intervention. That can be
reassuring. In my opinion, reporting would be better than Ok. If knives
are being placed into other human beings bodies in that household, then
she is in imminent danger. What would happen, for instance, if she were to
try to intervene with her Mom's assault next time?


I really don't think the mom
has the mind or money to help her children. She has told me she is on
a waiting list to get counseling, but it was only in regards to her,
not the kids.

I agree with you about what the little girl is projecting, which is
why I tried to hang in as long as I could. It was when it started to
effect my own daughter, who has some issues of her own, that I
couldn't deal anymore.

Do you have experience with this service?

Vickie


Good luck, Vickie. This sounds truely awful.

"Jeff" wrote in message
news:Q858i.44$fX4.41@trndny03...
Also, the crisis center isn't just for abused females. The crisis centers
are also for abused males, too.



Well...some are some aren't. The one in Brattleboro VT is very clear in
stating that they serve women. They also draw the line at allowing male
child above about age 12 into the shelter if the mother flees accompanied by
them. IOW, various shelters have various philosophies and battered men are
generally underserved, ime, and often discredited by others so less likely
to step forward for help.

-Aula