do people not like holding their babies?

Nevermind wrote:


OK, but what do you have *against* using it? That's the real question.
Because if you don't have a really good reason to be against it, then
why are you spreading ill will around the world by being judgmental
about their use? Ever hear of "live and let live"?

My main problem with stroller use, other than I find them bulky and
unnecessary in my life, is that people seem to feel the strollers should
be given the "right to exist" that belongs to teh child. Courtesy
doesn't end when you procreate. I don't mind stepping around a small
child, and I'm not incenced by stroller use alone, but I find it
obnoxious to hvae to manoever around a stroller parked across an access
route by an adult perfectly capable of a little consideration to the
rest of the world. Apparently this is an offensive opinion. *shrug*

In article ,
says...

I used to walk my daughter to and from kindergarden (not every day) - a
mile each way.

Did you do it uphill both ways in the hip deep snow all year round,
too?

Now, she had turned six a month after class started and
had no problem walking. If I walked to pick her up, that's a two mile
walk total. Add a 3 year old and the need to get there when class gets
out. Some sort of device with wheels seems like a good idea. I could get
a dog to pull a sledge I suppose.

There is no way I could carry even my THREE MONTH OLD for a two mile
walk without being in agony at the end.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00) Zachary Mitchell
Theona Alexis (06/03/03) (01/12/94, fostered 09/05/01 - 07/23/03)

"Sara" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Tine Andersen wrote:

"Marie" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Oh there came the light for me - the car. When you don't own one the
stroller IS nice.

Tine, Denmark (where cars are very expensive and highly taxed)

I think we public-transportation-users have a very different
perspective on these things. I was miffed when I read the first post,
but then I realized what was going on.


The car is just a very big stroller with a motor. And when it's driving you
are really confined - with carseats and belts and what have you.

My kids loved their strollers or big baby carrier/pram. They were their
extra home. If we had the pram/stroller they always had a homely place they
knew - same function as the car can have. The pram even had toys, pillows,
blankets etc.

And for shopping when you don't own a car - indispensable!! You can have
groceries in the basket at the bottom, Corn Flakes behind the back of the
sitting child, bags hanging from the hooks on the handle, and groceries in
your own backpack. I don't recall how we shopped before we had the pram.

Tine, Denmark

Dawn Lawson wrote in message
My main problem with stroller use, other than I find them bulky and
unnecessary in my life, is that people seem to feel the strollers should
be given the "right to exist" that belongs to teh child. Courtesy
doesn't end when you procreate. I don't mind stepping around a small
child, and I'm not incenced by stroller use alone, but I find it
obnoxious to hvae to manoever around a stroller parked across an access
route by an adult perfectly capable of a little consideration to the
rest of the world. Apparently this is an offensive opinion. *shrug*

Ah it seems you've had a bad experience with an inconsiderate person using
their stroller and you've painted the whole world with the same brush. NOT
ALL stroller users are inconsiderate. NOT ALL stroller users block sidewalks
when they are using them.

I feel that a stroller has just as much right to be on a sidewalk as much as
a bicycle, jogger, scooter, rollarblades or a walking person does. These
things have gotten in my way at one time or another. Do I hate all joggers
or someone on a bicycle, um no. I do realize that some people are
incondsiderate and most people I run into happen to be very nice and
accommodating. It's not that your opinion is offensive, because I could care
less how you feel about stroller usage. I just feel that your opinion is
held because you live in a black and white world and you won't allow
yourself to be open-minded enough to know that there are some really good
reasons why people use strollers.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Marie wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:37:53 GMT, (Marion
Baumgarten) wrote:
You have three children and you never have had a time when their needs
conflict?

Of course needs conflict, especially when one is a baby. I was
agreeing with the line of thought of just stopping for a rest when one
of the children get tired. When we go out, whether it's for one hour
or all day, if someone is tired we stop, sit and have a drink. It's a
welcome rest for all of us and we get to talk about what we've done
and plan to do next.
Marie

Honestly, that just isn't always the best thing to do. With my 2 older
kids' and my and my DH's own schedules, there are times (not many,
thank heaven, but they do definitely occur at least once per week)
when we are in a *hurry* and need to get certain things done on a
schedule. Are you ever in a hurry? Sometimes these things must be done
with all 3 of my kids in tow. Thus, if someone were to get tired, it
could seriouly mess things up for the rest of the afternoon or evening
if we chose to sit down and talk and have a drink. Much easier, much
smarter, much more efficient, and much better all around --
emotionally, practically -- to let a child of a certain age take her
rest *while the rest of us continue going*. This is a wonderful
thing!! I can't imagine why anyone would object.

Dawn Lawson wrote in message ...
Nevermind wrote:


OK, but what do you have *against* using it? That's the real question.
Because if you don't have a really good reason to be against it, then
why are you spreading ill will around the world by being judgmental
about their use? Ever hear of "live and let live"?

My main problem with stroller use, other than I find them bulky and
unnecessary in my life, is that people seem to feel the strollers should
be given the "right to exist" that belongs to teh child.

Well, parents do have a right to use them, as well as the
responsibility to use them responsibly and politely, as goes for all
other things we do. I am well aware that I can't get inside your heart
or mind, but your posts in general lead me to believe that "rude use"
is a straw man here. Are you sure you don't have a knee-jerk bad
reaction to strollers based on AP philosophy, that is, babies should
be held, period? I've heard people here (not necessarily you) refer to
"detachment parents" using strollers, for example.

Courtesy
doesn't end when you procreate. I don't mind stepping around a small
child, and I'm not incenced by stroller use alone, but I find it
obnoxious to hvae to manoever around a stroller parked across an access
route by an adult perfectly capable of a little consideration to the
rest of the world. Apparently this is an offensive opinion. *shrug*

What's offensive is your implication that stroller users tend to be
rude. I don't find that. When I do find stroillers being used
"irresponsibly" and say "excuse me," I *usually* find the parent to be
very apologetic. I myself have occasionally parked a stroller in a
place that *could* but was not at the time blocking a path and then
let me mind wander, only to find a bit later that I was
inconveniencing someone. For those times, I am truly sorry. They're
not common practice and shouldn't lead anyone to make broad sweeping
assumptions about me or about stroller use in general.

Great article! I have no objection to gently reminding busy people of
the joy of wandering with a child, and I do think it's important for
kids to get exercise, too!

Nina wrote
On a related note, just the other day the NYT had an editorial on the
increasing use of strollers for toddlers (seems like this would apply to
other carries, too)

I've pasted int he full text becuase I'm not sure how long the link wil
be good for.


No Free Ride for Toddlers

September 6, 2003
By WILLIAM CRAIN

In "Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care," Drs. Benjamin Spock
and Steven J. Parker wrote that "when a baby has learned to
walk, it's time to let him out of his carriage or
stroller." Numerous child-development experts, from Dr.
Maria Montessori to Dr. T. Berry Brazelton, agree that the
toddler age - 1 to 3 years - is a time when parents should
encourage their children's urge to move around on their own
and explore.

Nevermind wrote:
Great article! I have no objection to gently reminding busy people of
the joy of wandering with a child, and I do think it's important for
kids to get exercise, too!

And herein lies one of my fundamental objections to strapping kids into
things for adult convenience. (as well as not going out on cold or
rainy days, objecting to a child getting really dirty, etc etc.)

(Many people insist on vaccinating for diseases less likely to cause
hospitalization than stroller use, it seems, and I find that ironic,
because *I* am hassled due to the perception that I am putting my chld
at risk.)

anyhow, I think I said once before that I was finished with this thread,
and I maintain that strollers are overly bulky for their purpose, and
not necessary as often as many parents seem to maintain. Coupled with
comments from parents I have spent time with that they used to feel
similarly, but now that they have kids they don't care if they are rude,
and i'm allergic to strollers.

Whatever, that's my right, I suppose, though I find the cries of
"rights" to be somewhat diversonary as well.

Dawn

I've certainly run into my fair share of inconsiderate stroller users, but
I've also run into my fair share of inconsiderate non-stroller users. The
non-stroller users just demonstrate their lack of consideration in other
ways. Shrug The world is imperfect. Removing strollers wouldn't make the
world any less imperfect nor would it eliminate rudeness.

Like when you are trying to get through a door with a stroller and three
kids and the person in front of you just lets the door go. Or when someone
sees you struggling to get the door open to get through and nobody helps
you.
Kris

Dawn Lawson wrote:


Nevermind wrote:

Great article! I have no objection to gently reminding busy people of
the joy of wandering with a child, and I do think it's important for
kids to get exercise, too!


And herein lies one of my fundamental objections to strapping kids into
things for adult convenience. (as well as not going out on cold or
rainy days, objecting to a child getting really dirty, etc etc.)

(Many people insist on vaccinating for diseases less likely to cause
hospitalization than stroller use, it seems, and I find that ironic,
because *I* am hassled due to the perception that I am putting my chld
at risk.)

anyhow, I think I said once before that I was finished with this thread,
and I maintain that strollers are overly bulky for their purpose, and
not necessary as often as many parents seem to maintain. Coupled with
comments from parents I have spent time with that they used to feel
similarly, but now that they have kids they don't care if they are rude,
and i'm allergic to strollers.

Whatever, that's my right, I suppose, though I find the cries of
"rights" to be somewhat diversonary as well.

Dawn


It's possible to think that exploration time and exercise should be
encouraged and also think that a stroller can be useful, if not a
godsend, when it comes to resting and naps (and safety, in certain
situations), not to mention the other legitimate reasons already
described, especially with multi-children families. It would break my
heart to see a crying, sleepy child in need of a nap far from home
without a stroller to lie down in. To them, it serves as a portable
cradle. (Sure, there are other ways for a child to nap while
out-and-about, but there are times, especially if there is only one
parent and multiple children, where the stroller will likely provide the
best sleeping environment.)

I found the article helpful as a reminder to allow for
exploration/exercise time and not let stroller use interfere with that.

Ideally, if a child wants to get down on the ground and walk or play,
the parent should allow that as possible (unless unsafe/impractical),
whether the child is in a stroller, a sling/carrier or a parent's arms.
In that situation, I would expect a stroller would seem no more
confining to a child than a parent's arms or a sling/carrier. Isn't the
whole point that children have different needs at different times?
Likewise, holding a child (or making them walk) when they would rather
be horizontal in a reclined stroller is certainly of no benefit to the
child.

I think part of the disjoint on this thread may be due to a difference
between lifestyles. I suspect that the people who hate strollers have
never spent a day at Sea World (which is typically an all-day affair and
not within in a short-driving distance from home for a quick nap) with
multiple kids. It's not part of my lifestyle either (and I'm not big on
stollers), but it is my sister's, and I have gone with her and her
children, and without a stroller it would have been absolutely
disasterous, with heartbreaks and frazzled nerves all around.

In the big scheme of things, the inconvenience of rude people blocking
the way with strollers is small stuff. I dont think it makes sense to
want people to give up huge tool of comfort, safety, and convenience,
for your convenience (that is, so you can avoid being inconvenienced for
a minute).