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#171
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upset at nanny -- vent
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#172
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upset at nanny -- vent
Circe wrote: I think this is a really good point. I have always said much the same about my paternal grandmother, who in addition to raising five children was also the "farmer's wife" on a dairy farm in Minnesota in the 30s that did not (at least initially) have either electricity or running water. Frankly, there is just no *way* she could have done her "job" and also have spent anywhere *near* the amount of time or energy on childrearing as most modern parents who hold jobs outside the home do. And I've been thinking more about this too, and will try to post soemthing more coherant at some point, but ime, the children of these families I have been talking about are VASTLY different from those of the second group, and I can't help thinking, even as a fairly AP minded person, that the "devotion" to children in the form of setting their life schedules full of "playdates" and constant involvement in their activities may NOT be the tremendously desireable or particularly "normal" thing it is made out to be. There is a LOT to be said for letting kids be kids, as well as for modeling for them how to accomplish more than leisure without making it drudgery. I think that while a child may not specifically appreciate the clean laundry or that the kitchen is orderly and the house running smoothly and calmly, they do NOT thrive in chaos and disorder and high-stress and running just below breakdown. and as a sig on another group reads, "if you want to do something, you will find a way, if you don't, you'll find an excuse." and i think that's a very valid sentiment. i'm still putting together my thoughts on this, but that's the nitty gritty of it to this point. Dawn |
#173
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upset at nanny -- vent
| I've done it all, been a married SAHM, married and Out of the home | (school, not work) | Single and SAHM, and Single and in school. | It was all pretty difficult, just in different areas, | MY PERSONAL BELIEF is that the ideal is for young children to spend as | much | time with their parents as possible, not a daycare worker, not a | nanny. ` | So for me, not being the one interacting with my child, teaching her, | feeding her | playing with her etc, would be a big problem. | For those who it isnt, I dont have a problem with that. | Its funny, Im not jusdging anyone, but immediately I am told | that my beliefs are silly, and that if I believe what I do that it is | out | of ignorance, yet I havent disparaged anyone elses beliefs. | | I'm wondering if I'm the only one who feels this way, so I'm going to ask. I've done it all :-), been a mom and worked, been a mom and stayed at home, and am currently a mom who goes to school full time and worked, then mom and just school. Did you, as a mom who went to school, ever feel like the times when you were mom and going to school were the hardest? You have all of the problems working moms have, and all of the problems sahm moms have (take care of baby, clean, cook) but you get to leave work behind when you get home, but still have to bring home your school... so it's never gone. I was just wondering if out of all of the people who've done the same as me, going to school while raising a baby (which isn't many that I know of because I seem to be the only mom my age who thought about going back to school, and I'm a young one), if I was the only one who felt going to school and being mom was the hardest. LOL. Some days I'd rather be working because at least then I don't have to bring the job home with me. And of course I'd love to be a SAHM, but I know that's not an option if I want to become anything in life. Did I even make sense? My brain is floating 20 feet above my head today, I've got an awful head cold. Cadie |
#174
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upset at nanny -- vent
| I'm wondering if I'm the only one who feels this way, so I'm going to ask. | I've done it all :-), been a mom and worked, been a mom and stayed at home, | and am currently a mom who goes to school full time and worked, then mom and | just school. Did you, as a mom who went to school, ever feel like the times | when you were mom and going to school were the hardest? You have all of the | problems working moms have, and all of the problems sahm moms have (take | care of baby, clean, cook) but you get to leave work behind when you get | home, but still have to bring home your school... so it's never gone. | | I was just wondering if out of all of the people who've done the same as me, | going to school while raising a baby (which isn't many that I know of | because I seem to be the only mom my age who thought about going back to | school, and I'm a young one), if I was the only one who felt going to school | and being mom was the hardest. LOL. Some days I'd rather be working | because at least then I don't have to bring the job home with me. And of | course I'd love to be a SAHM, but I know that's not an option if I want to | become anything in life. | | Did I even make sense? My brain is floating 20 feet above my head today, | I've got an awful head cold. | | Cadie | | Just to correct my own post... I'm currently a mom and going to school, I quit working 7 months ago. Whereas my post says I'm currently working and going to school. :-) |
#175
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upset at nanny -- vent
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:48:36 GMT, "Mom2Aries"
wrote: I was just wondering if out of all of the people who've done the same as me, going to school while raising a baby (which isn't many that I know of because I seem to be the only mom my age who thought about going back to school, and I'm a young one), if I was the only one who felt going to school and being mom was the hardest. I had a 16 month old and an almost-3 year old when I went to school (it was a two year junior college). I went to the evening classes, 5-9pm 4 days a week and some saturdays. The kids stayed home with dh most of the time, though the first semester they came with me and stayed in the childcare room (all the classes and childcare room were in one building on one floor, very small place!) I actually enjoyed it. I did all the playing, cleaning and cooking in the day and had dinner cooking when dh got home from work a few minutes after 4, and left to go to school. I did homework usually at night when I got home, and sometimes if I needed to study (I have a great memory if I highlight something in a book or write it down I normally remember it) I'd take the kids to the park and read over my books/notes. I graduated with a 3.6 so I didn't do too bad ;o) It wasn't the easiest thing I've done but I really enjoyed it, using my brain and working hard (i crapped through high school with a 2.4 or so and felt the need to "prove" myself), I enjoyed the socialization. At this college most of the other women were mothers, there were very few just out of high school, and many of them were above middle-age from a plant that had just closed down in our area and they needed some education to get some new skills to find a decent job in different fields. I think if my youngest wasn't high needs I would take some classes. I feel like college was a waste (and have been told that several times also) because I stay at home, and don't have a job. I owe over $12,000 for it and what do I have to show? There were times I was really really stressed and a couple of times I called my mom crying lol. It is very hard, to keep being interrupted and lose your concentration and work on a project instead of cooking dinner. What are you studying, and how long will you be going? Marie |
#176
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Cultural differences (was: upset at nanny -- vent)
"Circe" wrote in message news:nJNWb.39371$QJ3.7028@fed1read04... Taniwha grrrl wrote: "Circe" wrote in message I'd say black is a broader term for all people of the darker sorts of skin tone that originate in Africa and might apply equally well to some Pacific Islanders (e.g. Papua New Guineans Not here in New Zealand, if you called a Maori or an Islander black your likely to get your head kicked in. It's a pretty offensive term. You're referred to according to your culture, Maori, Islander, Somali or Asian rather than your skin tone. I'm just saying that if I saw someone I'd never met before who was Papuan or possibly Maori, I might well describe that person as "black" if asked. I don't claim to be able to intuit people's cultural affiliations from their skin color, and I think it's a bad idea to try, since you can very easily be misled. Again, citing my favorite example, Sammy Sosa of baseball fame is black, but he's Hispanic rather than African-American. I guess I don't completely understand why we impute so much meaning to words that are really just intended to describe relative skin tones. Black as a description for skin tone isn't, strictly speaking, any more accurate than white, but it's a word we all understand as describing a certain range of skin tones. I'm white, my husband is brown, my kids are brown, my Zulu au pair was black, and my "colored" South African au pair was also black because her skin tone fit into the range of skin tones we Americans describe with the word "black". Colin Powell, IMO, is not black. I'm not saying he's not African-American, because of course, he is. It's just that black doesn't really correctly describe his skin tone--he's more in the range I'd consider brown. he is of caribbean ancestry |
#177
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upset at nanny -- vent
"Circe" wrote in message news:1vOWb.39385$QJ3.36087@fed1read04... Nina wrote: MY PERSONAL BELIEF is that the ideal is for young children to spend as much time with their parents as possible, not a daycare worker, not a nanny. So for me, not being the one interacting with my child, teaching her, feeding her playing with her etc, would be a big problem. For those who it isnt, I dont have a problem with that. Its funny, Im not jusdging anyone, but immediately I am told that my beliefs are silly, and that if I believe what I do that it is out of ignorance, yet I havent disparaged anyone elses beliefs. I believe that you have no INTENT to disparage or judge other people's choices, but when you use words like *ideal* to describe your own choices, it's hard for other people not to read criticism between the lines. Well, I cant help if people read things I didnt write. I have repeatedly stated that I am referring to MY life, MY child and not anyone elses. What is IDEAL for me, may not be for other people. If they believe otherwise, I have no problem with that. Just as my political and religious beliefs may differ for others, or my standards from others. I can accept that everyone has their own beliefs about what is ideal or not. It would seem much less critical if you said that for *you* as a mother, the ideal is to spend as much time with your *child* as possible. When you cast your choices as being best for your child instead of as being best for you, I think you necessarily suggest that people who make a different choice don't care as much about doing the best for their children. I said that FOR ME, MY beliefs, MY values, the ideal is a child spending as much time with immediate family. How that can be seen as critical, I dont know. I DO think this is best for my child. Im not one of those people who thinks everyone has to believe as I do. It seems that if I state that I belive thing X is best for my child, I cannot do so without someone thinking I am also saying "People who dont do thing X arent doing whats best for their child". I havent said that anywhere. I think what is best for both the child and the parents is very situation and personality-dependent, and it's therefore somewhat perilous to say that X situation is "ideal" for young children as a blanket statement, even if it is merely a blanket statement of your own opinion. Did I not make it clear that I wa referring to my beliefs? Can I not state my own beliefs without it being seen as an attack on those of others? See what I mean? -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [23 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#178
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upset at nanny -- vent
-- Cadie and Aries "Marie" wrote in message ... | On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:48:36 GMT, "Mom2Aries" | wrote: | I was just wondering if out of all of the people who've done the same as me, | going to school while raising a baby (which isn't many that I know of | because I seem to be the only mom my age who thought about going back to | school, and I'm a young one), if I was the only one who felt going to school | and being mom was the hardest. | | I had a 16 month old and an almost-3 year old when I went to school | (it was a two year junior college). I went to the evening classes, | 5-9pm 4 days a week and some saturdays. The kids stayed home with dh | most of the time, though the first semester they came with me and | stayed in the childcare room (all the classes and childcare room were | in one building on one floor, very small place!) | I actually enjoyed it. I did all the playing, cleaning and cooking in | the day and had dinner cooking when dh got home from work a few | minutes after 4, and left to go to school. I did homework usually at | night when I got home, and sometimes if I needed to study (I have a | great memory if I highlight something in a book or write it down I | normally remember it) I'd take the kids to the park and read over my | books/notes. I graduated with a 3.6 so I didn't do too bad ;o) | It wasn't the easiest thing I've done but I really enjoyed it, using | my brain and working hard (i crapped through high school with a 2.4 or | so and felt the need to "prove" myself), I enjoyed the socialization. | At this college most of the other women were mothers, there were very | few just out of high school, and many of them were above middle-age | from a plant that had just closed down in our area and they needed | some education to get some new skills to find a decent job in | different fields. | I think if my youngest wasn't high needs I would take some classes. I | feel like college was a waste (and have been told that several times | also) because I stay at home, and don't have a job. I owe over $12,000 | for it and what do I have to show? | There were times I was really really stressed and a couple of times I | called my mom crying lol. It is very hard, to keep being interrupted | and lose your concentration and work on a project instead of cooking | dinner. | What are you studying, and how long will you be going? | Marie Hmm, maybe that means it will get easier as he gets older. He's only just one year right now, so he still needs a lot of attention, and doesn't like to play by himself, so I get naptimes to study. I'm currently getting all of the pre-requisites for the nursing program out of the way. Then I want to get my RN degree, work for a while, then eventually I'd like to go to medical school. So I'm looking at... 20 years? LOL. This semester I have both day and night classes. During the day my mom watches him, and my classes during the day are together, so I'm gone from him only 1 1/2 hours T, Th, and 3 hours MWF. At night on T, TH, his dad watches him for 4 hours on Tues but only 2 on Th (tues is lab and lecture). W night my grandmother watches him for 2 hours and then we all have dinner over there. I'm missing out on studying, most always, because I can't do anything with a baby in my lap... he likes eating my books LOL. And after paying up some of 200 dollars for some of those books, I just don't want him to eat them. I was lucky though to get a pel grant that pays my way through, with some extra money at the end of the semester because I go to a community college and the tutition isn't nearly half of my award. So I get reimbursed for the horrible gas for my car, and food. At my college, most of the people are just out of highschool, but then again, so am I. Only difference is, tehre biggest problem is if Johnny will call them again... mine is whether or not I'm spending enough time with my son and enough time on school work, and will I have money for diapers this week? I'm 18, and get told I could just put it off until he's older, and even got chastized for choosing to better myself (like you I did bad in highschool, only I barely passed with a 2.0... but I have a 3.4 in college) told I was a bad mother for leaving him to go to school. I didn't leave him until he was a little over 6 months old, and was nver gone for him for longer than 4 hours at a time, and got to play with him for an hour or 4 between classes. This weekend will be my catch up weekend, I'm so behind on my studying... nothing's been going right these last few weeks. Thankfully though, I think my brain has settled back into my head :-) Cadie |
#179
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upset at nanny -- vent
Michelle Spina wrote:
Sounds like you had lousy parents. Do you feel that they would have been good parents if one of them had been home? That it was their work that made your childhood less than what you wished for? In all other ways, they were really great parents, and it really was that they weren't home for those 8 hours, M-F, that was the crucial time you needed? First, no, I do not think I had terrible parents. I don't think I had perfect parents by any means, but a lot of what went wrong can be attributed to a lot of factors. However, yes, I think that having two parents that were both working a lot had a lot to do with why I felt detached from them. My grandmother was a SAHM and my mother wanted to be one as well, but financial circumstances and my father's negative attitude toward the idea of SAH parents made it so that it never worked out. And I was, in some respects, an easy child, in the sense of being easy to ignore - I didn't talk to people when I had problems (and I had a lot of problems). When your career is stressful and you're working 50 hours weeks and spending an hour and a half or so commuting, it's probably easier to assume that if your child isn't telling you about her problems and is doing well academically, that she doesn't *have* problems. And yes, I think that if my mom had been home with me, interacting with me more, that she might have realized that the reason I was a quiet child who kept to myself was that I was friendless and suicidally depressed (yes, at age 10). It's hard to tell what's normal behavior for someone when you spend hardly any time with them. Thinking about my own child feeling the way I did without me even having a clue - well, I'm getting extremely upset, so I'm going to stop now. -- tristyn www.tristyn.net "i have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. i do not think that they will sing to me." |
#180
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Cultural differences (was: upset at nanny -- vent)
"PattyMomVA" wrote in message ...
snip The Yahoo! online dictionary has the following Usage Note: "The Oxford English Dictionary contains evidence of the use of black with reference to African peoples as early as 1400, and certainly the word has been in wide use in racial and ethnic contexts ever since. However, it was not until the late 1960s that black (or Black) gained its present status as a self-chosen ethnonym with strong connotations of racial pride, replacing the then-current Negro among Blacks and non-Blacks alike with remarkable speed. Equally significant is the degree to which Negro became discredited in the process, reflecting the profound changes taking place in the Black community during the tumultuous years of the civil rights and Black Power movements. The recent success of African American offers an interesting contrast in this regard. Though by no means a modern coinage, African American achieved sudden prominence at the end of the 1980s when several Black leaders, including Jesse Jackson, championed it as an alternative ethnonym for Americans of African descent. The appeal of this term is obvious, alluding as it does not to skin color but to an ethnicity constructed of geography, history, and culture, and it won rapid acceptance in the media alongside similar forms such as Asian American, Hispanic American, and Italian American. But unlike what happened a generation earlier, African American has shown little sign of displacing or discrediting black, which remains both popular and positive. The difference may well lie in the fact that the campaign for African American came at a time of relative social and political stability, when Americans in general and Black Americans in particular were less caught up in issues involving radical change than they were in the 1960s. .Black is sometimes capitalized in its racial sense, especially in the African-American press, though the lowercase form is still widely used by authors of all races. The capitalization of Black does raise ancillary problems for the treatment of the term white. Orthographic evenhandedness would seem to require the use of uppercase White, but this form might be taken to imply that whites constitute a single ethnic group, an issue that is certainly debatable. Uppercase White is also sometimes associated with the writings of white supremacist groups, a sufficient reason of itself for many to dismiss it. On the other hand, the use of lowercase white in the same context as uppercase Black will obviously raise questions as to how and why the writer has distinguished between the two groups. There is no entirely happy solution to this problem. In all likelihood, uncertainty as to the mode of styling of white has dissuaded many publications from adopting the capitalized form Black." It's not clear-cut, is it? Thanks for posting that, Patty, it's helpful. And you're right, it isn't simple. Next weekend I will be participating in a workshop on racial issues at my church. I'm sure these language issues will be among the topics of discussion. Grandma Katie |
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