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  #11  
Old December 4th 04, 02:25 PM
PBSL
external usenet poster
 
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"Karen O'Mara" wrote in message
om...
"PBSL" wrote in message
...
That's very difficult for me , I have a problem opening up.
it's been suggested many times, and I don't seem to get far
and it's not from lack of effort either.


(sorry to barge in here).


Don't be, I'm glad you did.

... I think counseling is really finding the
right connection.


aint that the truth.I'ts good to hear that I'm not the only one

My daughter is very ANTI counseling because I think
I've shoved so much of it her direction throughout her early life and
now she refuses it outright... but now is talking to a
dietician/nutritionist at Kaiser about facts and feelings. (My
daughter is battling borderline anorexia). This person is not called a
"counselor" which is turn-off for my daughter, yet it seems she's
really found a good connection. Sorry to ramble off on a linear
tangent, but I thought the example would be a good one.


I'm glad to hear that the healing process is unhindered for now.
Good luck in the future


From your posts, I think you could open up to someone. Finding the
right counselor may take a few attempts.

Karen


It's easier for me to "open up" in this semi-anonymous arena
we call usenet. But face to face is entirely another matter.
I seem to be getting a lot of indirect help and support online
and I'll continue to "take" as much as I can get.

Thanks Karen



  #12  
Old December 4th 04, 02:43 PM
PBSL
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Cele" wrote in message
...
On 1 Dec 2004 14:39:19 -0800, (Karen O'Mara) wrote:

"PBSL" wrote in message
...
That's very difficult for me , I have a problem opening up.
it's been suggested many times, and I don't seem to get far
and it's not from lack of effort either.


(sorry to barge in here)... I think counseling is really finding the
right connection. My daughter is very ANTI counseling because I think
I've shoved so much of it her direction throughout her early life and
now she refuses it outright... but now is talking to a
dietician/nutritionist at Kaiser about facts and feelings. (My
daughter is battling borderline anorexia). This person is not called a
"counselor" which is turn-off for my daughter, yet it seems she's
really found a good connection. Sorry to ramble off on a linear
tangent, but I thought the example would be a good one.

From your posts, I think you could open up to someone. Finding the
right counselor may take a few attempts.

Karen


Hi there, Karen & PBSL. I've been swamped at work & haven't had much
to say, but I have to agree with a couple of things here.


Hi cele.


First, my daughter is also dealing with major fallout from past damage
done, and has no interest in counselling, despite plenty of
professional opinions that she should get some.


Time, it will take time. one of the truest sayings I've heard is "time heals
all"
sometimes its all one needs immho.
I counting on it myself.

I decided early that it was just not going to be helpful to insist on
counselling in which she had no interest or commitment, so I didn't. I
did occasionally remind her of the option. Like your daughter, she has
now decided, after being mugged last month,


I'm Sorry to hear that I hope she was OK.

that she's ready to talk
to someone, but specifically about personal safety techniques. The
woman I have hired, from an organisation called SafeTeen, turns out to
be the person my daughter has chosen to talk to. I couldn't be more
delighted.



With respect to PBSL, I would encourage you not so much to "get
counselling", but to think through what you need to sort through. What
kinds of issues are you facing? What kinds of problems do you need to
solve? What patterns are repeating in your life, that you want to
change? Once you get a sense of some of this kind of thing, then, if
you feel ready to take a shot at it, you can go to a counsellor with a
clearer idea in mind of what you want out of it. That might feel less
like you have to bare your soul, and more like you can just get some
trained, intelligent help to brainstorm strategies and patterns with
an eye to finding a more effective way to manage whatever needs
managing.


That's good advice, thanks. I really need to take time out and just put
thoings into perspective.
I might try and get a weekend to myself. Although as you know, that's not
very easy.

Then, shop around. Counsellors vary widely in skill, style and
orientation. Talk to a few until you find one you feel might be
helpful.


I know councillers are proffesionaly trained in thier respective fields
but at the moment I feel just a friend to talk to would have as much
theraputic value to me than a dozen councillers
Unfortunatly for me is that ever person that contacts me these days
is after something and not just calling for friendships sake.

As for the whole co-parenting and multi-residence thing, I can offer
this little bit of information from my over 12 years of single
parenting with an ex husband who has remained very much involved and
engaged in his daughters' lives: do whatever you humanly can to keep
your relationship with your ex separate from your child's relationship
with your ex. Keep your discussions of parenting, finances, custody,
visitation, living arrangements, etc. between the adults until your
child is old enough to be making decisions on these matters. Try very,
very hard to not only not trash your ex,


That's so true. It can be hard at times , but I know the child needs to hear
it.
I really make a point of saying at least once a week that "mummy loves you
very much and she would be here if she could"

but if you can sincerely
think of any positive things to say, say them now and again. Don't lie
and don't exaggerate, but look for good.


yes, yes! I'm happy to be reading this. It's just reenforcing what I
believe.
As I have little contact with people here to test these ideas.

It's really, really helpful
because this enables your child to feel safe and unjudged for loving
both of you, it teaches the child that you can disagree and still get
along,


exactly! Life's not black and white. You dont just either like someone or
hate them.

it shows them that they can feel differently from you without
censure, and it lets them know that your love for them is a separate
and special thing from the love between them and the other parent.

Best of all, even if your ex trashes you, later on, they are smart
enough to know that you have consistently taken the high road.


This is great! You must be a very down to earth person.

There's
a LOT of payoff then,


yes, an unexpected/unintended bonus.
So true Kids ARE smart!
Alas a lot of parents just dont give thier kids credit in the
awareness & common sense dept

during the teen years, when they realize that
regardless of the other parent's behaviour, you have remained positive
and supportive. Teens *really* respect that. And if they are so lucky
as to have had TWO parents who have taken the high road, the trust and
respect quotient going into adolesence is a whole lot higher than it
might be. You need all of that you can get around about then.

Kids can handle that their parents not agreeing. They can handle their
parents' divorce. They can handle moving and they can handle quite a
bit more, but what they *really need* is to know that the parents
will remain sane and sensible, and that even if one 'goes off', the
other one can be trusted. That, really, is the same in married
parenting.

Anyway, I'm probably rambling all over the map. I'm so bloody busy at
work I can hardly see straight. Good luck!



No, your making lots of sense, thanks
and I can relate to the "busy at work" thing, I'm the same here, and its
more than welcome too , not only does it mean more income , but I have less
time to
dwell.

Cele


Thank You Cele

pbs



  #13  
Old December 4th 04, 10:17 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 2 Dec 2004 10:14:24 -0800, (Karen O'Mara) wrote:

Cele wrote in message . ..


I remember when we first separated and we were on the phone and I had
a real choice to get in another argument with him or bite my words and
I bit my words. He followed suit and it just went like that. I
remember when my daughter who was very small could sense how I felt
about her father and said, "we don't like Daddy anymore, do we?" I
immediately knew I had to do the right thing... and I listed about ten
things that were wonderful about him. "You're Daddy is so strong, he
could pick up this couch with one hand," and "You're Daddy loves you
so much, he is counting the days until he gets to see you again. I bet
he'll take you to McDonald's!" And, so on.

We're really key players in how this will all play out.


Absolutely. And kids need both parents in their lives if at all
possible. Sometimes it's *not* possible, because of either death or
the refusal of a parent to participate, and that's so hard for the
kids.

otoh, I think I really tried very hard to make their relationship
work. As she grew older, I began to take myself out of the equation
and it seems neither of them want to have a relationship anymore. So,
once I quit trying to make their relationship work, it stopped.


Yes, and there certainly comes a time to step back and let them carry
on, or not, on their own. My daughters are now 17 & 19, and I no
longer have much to do with their relationship with their Dad. But
their Dad has remained so caring and involved, they go to see him of
their own accord frequently, and the three of them call each other all
the time. They all win. I've often said to their Dad that I think he's
an excellent parent, and I've said to them, when they were younger,
"Your Dad and I might not have been great as a married couple, but we
both love you tons and you're lucky to have a father like you have."
Now that they're practically adults, they've said on several occasions
to each of us that they really appreciate how we've coparented all
these years.

My own father, however, didn't maintain the relationship as
effectively, and he flat out stopped talking to me when I was 16 and
didn't take what he wanted me to take at university. Our relationship
was sporadic and damaged thereafter, and when he died, I hadn't seen
him in years. We'd talked on the phone, but hadn't even managed to get
together for lunch. It would have been better if things had been
different, but I realized as a young adult that he was what he was,
and it wasn't because of me that he couldn't be the father I'd've like
to've had.

Best of all, even if your ex trashes you, later on, they are smart
enough to know that you have consistently taken the high road. There's
a LOT of payoff then, during the teen years, when they realize that
regardless of the other parent's behaviour, you have remained positive
and supportive. Teens *really* respect that. And if they are so lucky
as to have had TWO parents who have taken the high road, the trust and
respect quotient going into adolesence is a whole lot higher than it
might be. You need all of that you can get around about then.

Kids can handle that their parents not agreeing. They can handle their
parents' divorce. They can handle moving and they can handle quite a
bit more, but what they *really need* is to know that the parents
will remain sane and sensible, and that even if one 'goes off', the
other one can be trusted. That, really, is the same in married
parenting.

Anyway, I'm probably rambling all over the map. I'm so bloody busy at
work I can hardly see straight. Good luck!


All very good insights and advice here.


Thanks, Karen. Take care.

Cele
  #14  
Old December 4th 04, 10:19 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:43:15 GMT, "PBSL"
wrote:


"Cele" wrote in message


Hi cele.


Hi, pbs! :-) Nice to meet you.

First, my daughter is also dealing with major fallout from past damage
done, and has no interest in counselling, despite plenty of
professional opinions that she should get some.


Time, it will take time. one of the truest sayings I've heard is "time heals
all"
sometimes its all one needs immho.
I counting on it myself.


Yep, time and love in good measure work wonders. My daughter is doing
remarkably well given what she's been through, and the little bit of
time that has passed.

I decided early that it was just not going to be helpful to insist on
counselling in which she had no interest or commitment, so I didn't. I
did occasionally remind her of the option. Like your daughter, she has
now decided, after being mugged last month,


I'm Sorry to hear that I hope she was OK.


She was fine. Scared her, but it's so trivial in comparison to other
experiences that she actually came through it rather well. It was a
catalyst, as I said, that got her ready to address the next stage of
her healing process, which is a good thing. Silver linings and all
that. :-)

that she's ready to talk
to someone, but specifically about personal safety techniques. The
woman I have hired, from an organisation called SafeTeen, turns out to
be the person my daughter has chosen to talk to. I couldn't be more
delighted.



With respect to PBSL, I would encourage you not so much to "get
counselling", but to think through what you need to sort through. What
kinds of issues are you facing? What kinds of problems do you need to
solve? What patterns are repeating in your life, that you want to
change? Once you get a sense of some of this kind of thing, then, if
you feel ready to take a shot at it, you can go to a counsellor with a
clearer idea in mind of what you want out of it. That might feel less
like you have to bare your soul, and more like you can just get some
trained, intelligent help to brainstorm strategies and patterns with
an eye to finding a more effective way to manage whatever needs
managing.


That's good advice, thanks. I really need to take time out and just put
thoings into perspective.
I might try and get a weekend to myself. Although as you know, that's not
very easy.


I do know, and I can remember fantasizing about getting on a plane to
anywhere and disappearing, just to escape. Never *did* it, of course,
but boy, that feeling of desperation I remember very well. I remember
thinking that you *know* you're in rough shape when the idea of a week
or two in hospital is even appealing, so you could just rest.....

Then, shop around. Counsellors vary widely in skill, style and
orientation. Talk to a few until you find one you feel might be
helpful.


I know councillers are proffesionaly trained in thier respective fields
but at the moment I feel just a friend to talk to would have as much
theraputic value to me than a dozen councillers
Unfortunatly for me is that ever person that contacts me these days
is after something and not just calling for friendships sake.


Have you considered finding a support group for single parents? You
have to be a bit cautious, in that many are just dating mills, but
some are really great in that the focus is on parenting and the
challenges attached thereto, rather than on matchmaking. Another
thought would be some kind of men's group? Or maybe some kind of
interest based group - hobby, or political interest, or whatever. I
know, I know, joining something when you've got kids and no money
isn't easy.....but if you could think of one good place to meet
people...

I'm Unitarian so I've been fortunate in that going to church has
worked for me, in terms of meeting people socially who mostly haven't
got anything to ask me for. Church has the advantage of being very
child friendly, as well. But if you're not up for that, maybe putting
kids into soccer or something would give you a place to meet people?
Or getting on the kids' school committee, maybe? What helps is to meet
new people who know you as a single parent, rather than the people who
are still processing you as an individual separate from the couple you
were.

As for the whole co-parenting and multi-residence thing, I can offer
this little bit of information from my over 12 years of single
parenting with an ex husband who has remained very much involved and
engaged in his daughters' lives: do whatever you humanly can to keep
your relationship with your ex separate from your child's relationship
with your ex. Keep your discussions of parenting, finances, custody,
visitation, living arrangements, etc. between the adults until your
child is old enough to be making decisions on these matters. Try very,
very hard to not only not trash your ex,


That's so true. It can be hard at times , but I know the child needs to hear
it.
I really make a point of saying at least once a week that "mummy loves you
very much and she would be here if she could"


It's harder earlier on. It gets easier, especially if the other parent
behaves responsibly, because once you're all into a routine in the
shape of your new lives, there's not as much to conflict over. But I
had a very supportive and cooperative ex, WRT parenting the kids, so I
was lucky.

but if you can sincerely
think of any positive things to say, say them now and again. Don't lie
and don't exaggerate, but look for good.


yes, yes! I'm happy to be reading this. It's just reenforcing what I
believe.
As I have little contact with people here to test these ideas.


Hey, you'll find no shortage of opinions in *this* group, so feel free
to test away. You need a teflon coating at times, but it's certainly a
place you can expect feedback. :-)

It's really, really helpful
because this enables your child to feel safe and unjudged for loving
both of you, it teaches the child that you can disagree and still get
along,


exactly! Life's not black and white. You dont just either like someone or
hate them.


That's right. And that's a critically important skill for everyone to
learn. Some learn it sooner than others, and a few sorry few never
learn it, but I reckon they're the ones who have the hardest time, in
the end.

it shows them that they can feel differently from you without
censure, and it lets them know that your love for them is a separate
and special thing from the love between them and the other parent.

Best of all, even if your ex trashes you, later on, they are smart
enough to know that you have consistently taken the high road.


This is great! You must be a very down to earth person.


Sometimes. :-) Some days. ;-)

There's
a LOT of payoff then,


yes, an unexpected/unintended bonus.
So true Kids ARE smart!
Alas a lot of parents just dont give thier kids credit in the
awareness & common sense dept


That's true. I have the advantage of having been from a divorced
family myself, and when my own parents divorced, it was just a few
years before it became common. So I remember being told I was from a
'broken home' and feeling very inadequate. That's changed, thankfully,
to a degree, although certainly there's still prejudice that has it
that single parents are by definition less competent. But the
advantage I had is that I know what it's like to have been a kid in a
far less healthy divorce than my own, so that helped me to know what
*not* to do.

during the teen years, when they realize that
regardless of the other parent's behaviour, you have remained positive
and supportive. Teens *really* respect that. And if they are so lucky
as to have had TWO parents who have taken the high road, the trust and
respect quotient going into adolesence is a whole lot higher than it
might be. You need all of that you can get around about then.

Kids can handle that their parents not agreeing. They can handle their
parents' divorce. They can handle moving and they can handle quite a
bit more, but what they *really need* is to know that the parents
will remain sane and sensible, and that even if one 'goes off', the
other one can be trusted. That, really, is the same in married
parenting.

Anyway, I'm probably rambling all over the map. I'm so bloody busy at
work I can hardly see straight. Good luck!



No, your making lots of sense, thanks
and I can relate to the "busy at work" thing, I'm the same here, and its
more than welcome too , not only does it mean more income , but I have less
time to
dwell.


I'm a special ed teacher, so for me, unfortunately, it doesn't mean
more income, it just means more work. But the good side of it all is
that I'm only two weeks from Christmas break, which is two weeks long
here. And I'm going to New York for a holiday!!!! I can't afford it.
But I"m going anyway. :-)

Cele


Thank You Cele


You're most welcome. Welcome to the group.

Cele

  #15  
Old December 4th 04, 10:29 PM
Cele
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 19:05:10 GMT, 'Kate
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:20:45 GMT, "PBSL"
wrote:


"'Kate" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 17:17:55 GMT, "PBSL"
wrote:



Thanks Kate
pbs

You're very welcome.
I have only had sporadic bursts of free time this semester to post but
I'm glad I could help. You seem like a reasponsible parent... hang
around for a bit. It's a good group.

'Kate


Thanks, Kate, I was planning on lurking here for a while.
I feel a lot better if I'm close to other single parents, and this is one
way
for me as I don't get out much here.
Do you mind if I ask, do you work as well as study?


No... I'm fortunate to have a survivable income for another 1.5 years.
I'm fairly sure I can finish my Master's in 2 years (by Spring 06)
rather than 3.

I thought being a working single parent was hard enough .


It is! It absolutely is. But others (a number of them post here) do
all three jobs (child/ren, home, work). I'm not sure how but I am
sure that if you want to know, others will tell you how they manage.
We all have slightly different circumstances WRT health, age, support
system, number of children, income, local availability and cost of
higher ed, cost of living, standard wages and benefits, and etc...


When I did my masters, I was also working three days a week, and the
girls were then, lessee....12 & 14. We were the only members of the
family in the country, which was Australia. That sounds like a recipe
for disaster, but looking back, even though my youngest had a very
stressful 2 1/2 week hospitalisation there, it was one of the best
times of my parenting life. So you just never know. Part of the reason
it was such a good time, too, was that I had enough money for probably
the only time in my single parenthood. It was so nice.....too bad I
don't any more....:-) Ah well.

But in the end, I think it comes down to cost/benefit/desire. Doing it
is one thing... staying the course through a number of years and over
a number of hurdles takes devotion.


So true. One of the very hardest things for me, has been not having
anyone who loved them as much as I do to help with the day to day
stresses and hassles. Their Dad, of course, loves them as much as I
do, but for various reasons we weren't in the same town much of the
time.

Still, I'm almost there. D's moved out and stopped by today with her
partner to tell me she'd gotten interested in cooking & to borrow some
recipes. She's off to university in the spring. T's in her final year
of school and halfway out the door, in that she's got a job and a life
of her own now. It's hard to believe how fast it all happened, slow
and brutal as it often seemed at the time.

Take care.

Cele
 




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