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#31
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That was very well put. When I went in search of a group of people who were
single parents, This group is what I came up with. It was the only one of its kind and when I tried at yahoogroups, the groups that came up were either porno in nature or there weren't any that were relevant. So yes... I came here in desperation and yes, I do feel as though I'm being chased away. and the nastiness of some on here is repulsive. You know, there once was a time when a teacher of mine told me after class when I asked him a question on something, he said, "you know, I'm pretty certain that at least a dozen of your classmates have the same question." I had scoffed and asked how he knew. He said, "because there were about 11 ahead of you asking me this very question. The only 'stupid' question is the one that's not asked. If someone asks a question, chances are good, others have the same question or can relate to the confusion. If the question is not asked then all you'll know is confusion unless you or someone else asks." Well, in the case of my son's babbling, I was afraid to even ask the question of what to do because I was afraid of the response that I've gotten thus far. When I saw that someone else had the same problem, I found myself responding not with a solution but with a reply that was more like, "you know, I've been wondering the same thing! I'd be interested to see others' suggestions." and what do I get? I get slammed and flamed and otherwise bullied. As of right now, I'm still desperate for help with my son because the resources in my area are seriously lacking. But you know, I doubt that I'll ever be *that* desperate again as to come here for advice. I'm so sorry to have troubled all of you.... "veterans" who've been there, done that and who feel the need to tell those of us who are there and haven't yet done that to get lost. I don't expect a lot of warm-fuzzies. I did expect a little bit of sympathy and support, especially from those who have walked in my shoes before. I don't expect tough love to not play a part. Sometimes it takes a good bitchslap back into reality to get back on the horse that threw you down and keep trying. Instead, I feel like I've been kicked when I'm down. There are *NO* resources where I'm at and if there are, I don't know how to find them. Like I said, sorry to have even bothered any of you. I won't leave though because of the *******s who are just waiting for me to leave so they can continue to be cruel over what a "coward" I was. I'll just silently hope that someone will ask a question that I may have. and hope that the question is answered. -- "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery "lm" wrote in message news On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:02:55 GMT, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:21:00 GMT, lm wrote: on temporary emotional support That's true, and kind, and it's unfortunate that it's not really what this forum is about. lm What do you suggest that we do to provide more support? Let people vent. You said in your response to the "seeking texas man" poster, "This group is about the joy of being a single parent. You're very welcome stay and chat about your experiences being a single mother." It's an interesting description, and an honest one. This group is not really about supporting people who are dealing with becoming or remaining a single parent. The only threads that don't degenerate into spats about what this group should be about are little news tidbits that long-time posters say about their kids. It's a koffee klatch, not a support group. A half-dozen or so people who have been here for too long (myself included) -- rather than moving on themselves, they just chase away newcomers. The group comprises the same people it did 2-3+ years ago. If it's really about only the happyhappyjoyjoy, perhaps the name ought to be changed to alt.joy.single-parents. To repeat a much-repeated phrase, it's called "support." The first year or two of being a single parent are like childbirth -- those of us who have been here a while can remember that it was very hard, but we can't still feel the pain. That's a good thing for us, but maybe what's happened is that when people who are still in that raw stage, or who are desperate and scared, show us all that emotion and fear and anger, we don't want to hear it because it brings our own pain back! So we tell them to take their divorce questions to a.s.divorce and their child support questions to a.s.child-support. I could be way off about the reasons for it, but I suppose it doesn't matter. People who are in pain are turned away because we don't like the *way* they express their pain. Divorce and child support are part of being a single parent (not for you, Joelle, we know), and venting about the other parent is absolutely necessary if a poster needs to, and doing so on usenet instead of at their kids or at their job or at the other parent ought to be welcomed rather than discouraged. What we're left with is some lukewarm flirting by a few members (which is frowned upon by others), and some self-righteous boot-strapping by tough-lovers who say you made your bed now lie in it, and every disagreement on the issues degenerating into a bitch session about what one poster or another's agenda is. WTF is an agenda? So steveb thinks of support as something different than Christene does. Who cares? Jesus if there was a thread called "what should my favorite color be?" and people didn't agree, the thread would not be about the plusses and minuses of different colours, or people's own feelings about or experiences with different colours, but about what an idiot so-and-so is because they think everyone's favorite colour should be purple when anyone who's worth their salt knows the best colour is blue! And who gives a **** about the poor poster who asked the question in the first place! I have opinions about some of the posters here too, it's human nature to develop opinions about people, but my opinions don't belong here if they're not constructive, so I end up hardly ever posting because it's a joke. Kate, do you remember when we talked? You were the soul of compassion. You were so helpful to me when I was panicked, I was so frightened, I didn't know what to do, I had no perspective, and there you were, from 2 time zones away, after all you had been through you gave me sound advice and support. I've thanked you but I don't think I've thanked you enough, made clear how important that help was for me -- you gave me information without being cold, and you gave me support without being mushy -- you were right there in the center and you drew from both wells in just the right proportions. It helped at the time and looking back on it, it was the right approach. I have only that experience and this forum to go on, but I'm convinced you're in the right field. You are going to be so good at what you do. I also haven't said how hard it was for me to write that post that ended up with us on the phone. I was so alone, this forum was *it* for me at the time, and yet I edited myself so much in that post. I apologized several times in it, I changed my words, I worried that I would be flamed, in hindsight it was ridiculous that I should have to worry like that in the midst of a crisis just to get some advice. And I only knew to do that because I'd already been posting here a while. If in the midst of a crisis I googled single parents support and landed here, I'm sure I wouldnt' have known to post *correctly.* Since then our life has improved exponentially. I've married, we've moved away from the boys' father, I have legal custody, and we've reached a point that the boys just a few weeks back called their father for the first time, no occasion, just because they wanted to. I don't need to be on this forum, and there isn't much to be here for -- I'm only still here because I'd like someday to be able to pay it forward. That's an effect of your support. The tough-love approach is absolutely valid. Giving people the no-bull****-facts may well help in the long run, and it's certainly a valid understanding of what support should be. But the poor-baby-I-know-it's-hard approach is absolutely valid. It may only have a momentary effect, but sometimes that's all that's needed, and it too is a valid understanding of support. The reason there's so little support on this forum is not that some people are too cold, or that some people are too soft. It's that the two won't get off each other's backs. Any response to new posters is absolutely valid, if it's really to the poster and not a nudge-nudge to other posters. Sitting around and congratulating ourselves that we're better than they are is pathetic. Different approaches and opinions are the point of a forum -- if you want only one point of view you can get that from e-mail. lm |
#32
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"lm" wrote in message news On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:02:55 GMT, 'Kate wrote: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:21:00 GMT, lm wrote: on temporary emotional support That's true, and kind, and it's unfortunate that it's not really what this forum is about. lm What do you suggest that we do to provide more support? Let people vent. You said in your response to the "seeking texas man" poster, "This group is about the joy of being a single parent. You're very welcome stay and chat about your experiences being a single mother." It's an interesting description, and an honest one. This group is not really about supporting people who are dealing with becoming or remaining a single parent. The only threads that don't degenerate into spats about what this group should be about are little news tidbits that long-time posters say about their kids. It's a koffee klatch, not a support group. I look at it as like a neighborhood bar, you stop in for a chat, dicuss the latest issues, and go home......it is 'supportive" but not meant to replace professional help, or real friends and family.......those that try to make it that are in serious need of professional help. A half-dozen or so people who have been here for too long (myself included) -- rather than moving on themselves, they just chase away newcomers. Some newcomers look for validation of their own twisted ways, and when they are not enabled (except for stevey) they go somewhere where they will hear what they want to hear.....so what. The group comprises the same people it did 2-3+ years ago. If it's really about only the happyhappyjoyjoy, perhaps the name ought to be changed to alt.joy.single-parents. Huh? To repeat a much-repeated phrase, it's called "support." The first year or two of being a single parent are like childbirth -- those of us who have been here a while can remember that it was very hard, but we can't still feel the pain. That's a good thing for us, but maybe what's happened is that when people who are still in that raw stage, or who are desperate and scared, show us all that emotion and fear and anger, we don't want to hear it because it brings our own pain back! So we tell them to take their divorce questions to a.s.divorce and their child support questions to a.s.child-support. I could be way off about the reasons for it, but I suppose it doesn't matter. People who are in pain are turned away because we don't like the *way* they express their pain. No, people that are looking to be enabled don't get the 'support' they wish to hear. Divorce and child support are part of being a single parent (not for you, Joelle, we know), and venting about the other parent is absolutely necessary if a poster needs to, and doing so on usenet instead of at their kids or at their job or at the other parent ought to be welcomed rather than discouraged. So you think that we should be supportive, say of a person that is thinking of filing false abuse charges against an ex in order to deny parenting time? What we're left with is some lukewarm flirting by a few members (which is frowned upon by others), and some self-righteous boot-strapping by tough-lovers who say you made your bed now lie in it, and every disagreement on the issues degenerating into a bitch session about what one poster or another's agenda is. WTF is an agenda? So steveb thinks of support as something different than Christene does. Who cares? Jesus if there was a thread called "what should my favorite color be?" and people didn't agree, the thread would not be about the plusses and minuses of different colours, or people's own feelings about or experiences with different colours, but about what an idiot so-and-so is because they think everyone's favorite colour should be purple when anyone who's worth their salt knows the best colour is blue! And who gives a **** about the poor poster who asked the question in the first place! You've come close to hitting the nail on the head. There are a certain few that feel they need to tell others how and what to post, rather than just ignore / killfile them. Opinions are like assholes......everyone has one, and not all of them are pretty. :-) I have opinions about some of the posters here too, it's human nature to develop opinions about people, but my opinions don't belong here if they're not constructive, so I end up hardly ever posting because it's a joke. Kate, do you remember when we talked? You were the soul of compassion. You were so helpful to me when I was panicked, I was so frightened, I didn't know what to do, I had no perspective, and there you were, from 2 time zones away, after all you had been through you gave me sound advice and support. I've thanked you but I don't think I've thanked you enough, made clear how important that help was for me -- you gave me information without being cold, and you gave me support without being mushy -- you were right there in the center and you drew from both wells in just the right proportions. It helped at the time and looking back on it, it was the right approach. I have only that experience and this forum to go on, but I'm convinced you're in the right field. You are going to be so good at what you do. I also haven't said how hard it was for me to write that post that ended up with us on the phone. I was so alone, this forum was *it* for me at the time, and yet I edited myself so much in that post. I apologized several times in it, I changed my words, I worried that I would be flamed, in hindsight it was ridiculous that I should have to worry like that in the midst of a crisis just to get some advice. And I only knew to do that because I'd already been posting here a while. If in the midst of a crisis I googled single parents support and landed here, I'm sure I wouldnt' have known to post *correctly.* Since then our life has improved exponentially. I've married, we've moved away from the boys' father, I have legal custody, and we've reached a point that the boys just a few weeks back called their father for the first time, no occasion, just because they wanted to. I don't need to be on this forum, and there isn't much to be here for -- I'm only still here because I'd like someday to be able to pay it forward. That's an effect of your support. The tough-love approach is absolutely valid. Giving people the no-bull****-facts may well help in the long run, and it's certainly a valid understanding of what support should be. But the poor-baby-I-know-it's-hard approach is absolutely valid. It may only have a momentary effect, but sometimes that's all that's needed, and it too is a valid understanding of support. The reason there's so little support on this forum is not that some people are too cold, or that some people are too soft. It's that the two won't get off each other's backs. Any response to new posters is absolutely valid, if it's really to the poster and not a nudge-nudge to other posters. Sitting around and congratulating ourselves that we're better than they are is pathetic. Different approaches and opinions are the point of a forum -- if you want only one point of view you can get that from e-mail. lm |
#33
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:48:12 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote: Stevey needs to look to alt.pyschology.projection to get help for his problems. Of course the problem you have, Pauly, is that I go away for best part of a year, and whenever I come back, a different bunch of people are saying exactly the things I said, about all the same posters. So how do you explain that away hon? And why hasn't Dennis told me to ***** Off* yet? It's his normal response steveb |
#34
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:28:26 GMT, lm
wrote: The reason there's so little support on this forum is not that some people are too cold, or that some people are too soft. It's that the two won't get off each other's backs. Any response to new posters is absolutely valid, if it's really to the poster and not a nudge-nudge to other posters. Sitting around and congratulating ourselves that we're better than they are is pathetic. After the last little spat with the *usual suspects*, I was away for nearly a year (yes I know it wasn't long enough for some of you .... but here is the thing .... what you think doesn't matter) When I return, the very same things are being said, about the same people, by a new (and some old) bunch of posters. Paul, Dennis, Christine, Tiffany ....... you support no one other than your own egos. Try doing what I did .... take a year off, then come back and let us see if a difference is made. steveb |
#35
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:56:53 -0700, "slykitten"
wrote: " and what do I get? I get slammed and flamed and otherwise bullied. Slykitten ...... *Take what you need, and leave the rest* Put those you feel offer no support in your killfile ..... and leave them there. They are ex-posters, they don't exist in your Universe, they will bring you only pain and anger (a deal-breaker) Treat those people with the same utter contempt you treat the stuff you scrape off your shoes! They are not worth your energy, or your emotion. If sufficient people killfile, and keep killfiled, then they will leave. They can even stay, no one will see them. If you do this, then the only replies you will see will be the genuine ones. You won't always agree with them (any more than I always agree with people I respect), but you will be able to enjoy a debate, free of thewhite noise of the clowns and the emotional cripples. You can be a part of reclaiming this newsgroup for those who want to offer and receive support, and take it from those who wish to support their fragile egos by slapping people least able to deal with it. Don't anyone make the mistake of thinking I want any form of position here. I have shown you all I am quite prepared to stay away for long periods, and *drop in* occasionally. This will not change anytime soon. OTOH, there are serial bullies here, and they need to be shown some of the *tough love* (sic) they show others. Then they need to be shown the door my 2c ssteveb |
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#37
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#38
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This is not the only usenet group that steveb attempts to control. Be wary
of his motives. Use Google as your friend to determine who is really telling the truth. |
#39
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Joelle, the only thing you commented on in my entire post was what was
addressed directly to you. Well, duh. Because it was the stupidest thing you said. And the most hypocritical. You lecture the group about how bad we are and then out of nowhere you throw a totally unasked for jab at me. You *do* throw your widowhood around regularly, No, I don't. I rarely mention it...and the fact that the few times I do bring it up bothers you is about you, not me. I guess that's what happens when you're the boss at home, at work, and in the community Oh yea. I'm so the boss everywhere. That's very amusing. Thank you. You snipped the whole thing and commented on one sentence. Because you negated any credibility you might have to lecture the group by such a childish, silly, unprovoked remark. ut the 7 or 8 regulars who find joy in zinging each other, to the detriment of people who may benefit from varied thoughts rather than the same old **** ad nauseum Oh my god,...you truly do not see the irony of what you just said. I feel sorry for you and I feel very sorry for your children and your congregation. Right. And I'm the badass judgmental one. Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle |
#40
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"Joelle" wrote in message ... Joelle, the only thing you commented on in my entire post was what was addressed directly to you. Well, duh. Because it was the stupidest thing you said. And the most hypocritical. You lecture the group about how bad we are and then out of nowhere you throw a totally unasked for jab at me. You *do* throw your widowhood around regularly, No, I don't. I rarely mention it...and the fact that the few times I do bring it up bothers you is about you, not me. I guess that's what happens when you're the boss at home, at work, and in the community Oh yea. I'm so the boss everywhere. That's very amusing. Thank you. You snipped the whole thing and commented on one sentence. Because you negated any credibility you might have to lecture the group by such a childish, silly, unprovoked remark. ut the 7 or 8 regulars who find joy in zinging each other, to the detriment of people who may benefit from varied thoughts rather than the same old **** ad nauseum Oh my god,...you truly do not see the irony of what you just said. I feel sorry for you and I feel very sorry for your children and your congregation. Right. And I'm the badass judgmental one. Well, if it is any consolation, I don't feel the same way. While we don't always see eye to eye, I certainly respect your unique viewpoint, (don't mean that as a negative either) BTW Merry Christmas Joelle The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St Augustine Joelle |
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