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Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?



 
 
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  #81  
Old October 27th 03, 10:11 PM
Jenrose
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Jenrose wrote:


I balk at the notion that a parent should "have" to homeschool to get a
gifted child what they need (although I would have yanked my kid out of
school so fast if it hadn't been great for her...) or that it should

take
"extra" time outside of school hours. Kids are in school for what, 29-30
hours per week? That's PLENTY to learn what they need to learn.



Sure, they should have programs and opportunities for
gifted kids. But if they *don't*, then besides agitating for
them to have appropriate programs, one has to find a solution
that is workable in the current environment. And believe me,
having *been* a gifted kid in a school (at various times--I
was in a lot of different schools) where there were no programs,
I would *NOT* have wanted a solution where my folks pulled me
out of school once a week! I was already different enough,
thank you very much. Doing something that made it painfully
obvious that everyone else was having to accommodate me would
have been much worse. We found other solutions that worked
within the classroom structure. Sometimes I'd go to the
library (to read, to help, or to do special projects) *after*
I'd done the work for my regular class. Sometimes the
teacher would give me extra projects to do when I was
bored. There were always plenty of ways to keep me from
being bored in class when we looked for them.


I agree...but I've also been in situations myself where the teacher and the
school were not interested in making ANY adaptations, so I skated through,
bored. Mom agitated, but they mainstreamed the gifted kids to the "CP"
program from the "advanced placement" for 11th grade...and it was terrible.
They said they did it to "bring up" the level of the CP class...yet we were
getting cutsy certificates with stickers on them for acing brainless quizzes
about poor movie adaptations of literature.

I agree that anything that puts a kid up as "separate" is lousy--but when a
kid is very bright and clearly bored by the curriculum, they're both
isolated AND bored silly--might as well cure the boredom if you can't fix
the isolation.

I agree that the first step is to get some adaptation within the classroom
structure--my point in my lengthy post is to show a situation which avoids
all of these issues--kids aren't routinely taken out, yet even if they miss
a few days the school adapts. Kids are engaged in the learning process. Kids
are not bored. They can work up to their level and are encouraged to keep
pushing that level, not to compete, but simply because new challenges lie
ahead if they do.



But you'll notice that none of your suggestions involved
taking your child out of school every week! Your child is
working *within* a very nice system--and using adaptations
that the OP very likely *could* get implemented for her
child with a little effort!


Which is one of the reasons I went into such detail...g

Personally, I think that's a
much better approach than trying to "fix" things by bailing
on the regular classroom once a week. It's far less likely
to cause problems or resentment, and it's likely much easier
for the teacher to accommodate.


I agree. Partial homeschooling can work, but works best, IMO, when you are
cutting out "all" of one specific segment (say, if math is done every
Tuesday and Thurs from 10-11:30, then you take your kid out of all of the
math sessions and do math separately). Or when you're doing a majority
homeschool and using the school to supplement with music or such. My
daughter's classes are consistent enough week to week that it would be very
easy to do that sort of arrangment if we needed to. But it is best, IMO, to
NOT need to.

Jenrose


  #82  
Old October 27th 03, 11:10 PM
Sue
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Nikki wrote in message
I even got some completely
freebee days where once a year or so I was allowed to stay home just
because I couldn't possibly deal with school that day! Didn't hurt me a
bit. I was top of my class, never take a sick day at work, wildly
successful at life ;-), lol. I guess I think an occasional miss helps kids

learn balance as well. Sometimes things *are* more important then school
or your job. Also with a job, we get vacation days so we can miss for
whatever reason we want to.

Nikki



But taking her daughter out once in a while is not what she is suggesting.
She wants to take her daughter out at least one day a week or more for
things that she deems as important. Of course one has vacation and such when
you have a job, but you couldn't miss one day a week just because you wanted
to and not have some kind of repercussions unless your job is set up that
way. I still think she is sending the wrong message and that it is hurting
the dynamics by missing that much school. I personally was allowed to stay
home every once in a while for a mental health day and plan to let my girls
do that also, we have in fact done that. One day here and there is not a
problem and that wasn't my point.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


  #83  
Old October 28th 03, 02:14 AM
Vicki
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

"dragonlady" wrote:
If you've been calling the school to tell them of her absences, and that
she's been sick, they are not truancies, but they should be excused
absences. If you have NOT been calling the school to tell them why
she's not at school, they are, technically, truancies, and there could
be some nasty actions regarding this. If you call the school to tell
them you are taking her out for something that YOU think is important
but they do not excuse it, it is a truancy.


I have called to let the school know that dd was out sick. It seems that if
a child has more than 5 *parent excused* absences per semester (for
sickness, appointments, etc.) then they are truant. If a child is 5 minutes
late one day, that counts as one of their absences. So, sick or tardy, you
get 5 per semester. After that you need a doctors excuse. Since we're
taking her to see terminally-ill relations soon, she will go over the top,
even without additional illness. Something WE think is important for her IS
important for her. The idea that they could fine us for exercizing parental
authority is just SO ridiculous. Anyhow. We are coming to grips with this,
and I have to say, I am angry. What a stupid system.

Today dd came home complaining about a headache and stomache ache. Her
brother's have both been down with fevers and complained about stomach pain
and headaches, so I don't think this is an emotional issue. Still, I asked
about what went on in school today to feel out that possibility, and
everything sounds fine. If dd is feeling bad tomorrow, I am supposed to
either send her or call the doctor and get an excuse. This is insane.
Imagine if I was without health insurance--I'd surely end up with truant
kids. Even with health insurance, I'm not going to take her to the doctor
for the flu... that is just ridiculous.

It would not surprise me to find out that after five truancies in one
semester they would take action; it would surprise me to find out that
they would disallow any more than five excused absenses. However, the
only way to know what is and is not the law vs. optional is to talk to a
local lawyer -- one who knows both the state law wherever you are, and
any local school board rulings. A newsgroup, with people from all over
the world, can't tell you those things. If you are very concerned, I'd
make an appointment with a lawyer who specializes in these things.


Thanks. Good idea. dh wants to get a group of parent's together who have
had similar problems with this and go to the schoolboard and legislature and
get the law changed. So maybe dd will inadvertently get a great education
this year. "Stupid laws and how to change them." Either that or "Stupid
laws and opting out of the system."


  #84  
Old October 28th 03, 02:24 AM
Vicki
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

"Donna Metler" wrote :
Vicki wrote:
Luckily dd's teacher is very nice. The principal seems good. We're

friends
with people on the school board. We are supportive of the school and

have
had a good relationship in the past. dh volunteered in the classroom

last
year. We initiated and donated money to start a community fund to

finance
special projects or trips that teachers might want to do... I'm not

saying
that the letter from the principal *isn't* about money... it just seems
misguided if that's what its about. It surprised us, got our

attention...
but not in a good way. I'm angered by the letter. Maybe she is

required
to
send the letter and has no over-ride authority. I don't see this as an
issue the school board would have authority over... I don't know who

we're
supposed to talk with, and what options are legal. dd will be truant by
their definition. Then what? I don't know.

She is almost certainly required by law to send it. I would strongly

suggest
getting documentation from your doctor, if possible, on past absenses, and
certainly getting documentation for ANY further medical absense.


Do you think my doctor will give me documentation for dd having the flu
three weeks ago when we didn't visit the office? I'll call and ask. Do
most of you take your kids to the doctor when they have the flu? I did call
the nurse's line b/c we thought it might be meningitis, but I don't know if
they document that, I'll have to call the hospital and ask. It'll be a good
use of their time to look through the records, to prove my dd was sick.
Egads. This boils my blood. If everyone is being required to take their
kids to the doctor when they have a fever in order to let them rest at home,
then no wonder our health insurance rates are going up. What a nutty law.


  #85  
Old October 28th 03, 02:43 AM
toto
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:43:56 -0600, "Vicki"
wrote:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get. You know, you
think truant kid, and you think a kid that's in trouble, falling behind,
uninvolved parents, unsupervised, etc., etc. But no. A truant kid is now a
kid that had the flu, went for a doctor appt., and will be visiting her ill
relative... who reads/writes/comprehends/computes well above grade level,
takes after school piano lessons at the school, is a Girl Scout for G*d's
sake... with parents who volunteer in the school and community. Oh, my dd
is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who came up
with such a stupid law?


Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks...

Bush anyone?


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #86  
Old October 28th 03, 02:43 AM
Vicki
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

"H Schinske" wrote:

For example, this school district I live in allows
only ten excused absences a year or you are retained.


Oh, that's insane. You can be retained just because you had stomach flu

three
times, and didn't have the luck to have it over any weekends?? I can't

think of
too many things I would sue over, but a law as stupid as that, it would

almost
be fun.

--Helen


dh wants to get the law changed too. I am irate. The school board is
taking us out to dinner this week (for something else, of course,) and the
principal is bound to be there. She may have been required by law to send
the notice, but urghh, I'm not ready to talk with her calmly. I am so angry
about this. The more I think about it, the angrier I get. You know, you
think truant kid, and you think a kid that's in trouble, falling behind,
uninvolved parents, unsupervised, etc., etc. But no. A truant kid is now a
kid that had the flu, went for a doctor appt., and will be visiting her ill
relative... who reads/writes/comprehends/computes well above grade level,
takes after school piano lessons at the school, is a Girl Scout for G*d's
sake... with parents who volunteer in the school and community. Oh, my dd
is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who came up
with such a stupid law?



  #87  
Old October 28th 03, 02:58 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Vicki wrote:


Do you think my doctor will give me documentation for dd having the flu
three weeks ago when we didn't visit the office? I'll call and ask. Do
most of you take your kids to the doctor when they have the flu? I did call
the nurse's line b/c we thought it might be meningitis, but I don't know if
they document that, I'll have to call the hospital and ask. It'll be a good
use of their time to look through the records, to prove my dd was sick.



Around here, the peds are pretty used to this stuff.
You can just drop by and they'll sign a note. You generally
don't have to make an appointment for the child if it sounds
like a garden variety illness.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #88  
Old October 28th 03, 03:05 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

Jenrose wrote:


My daughter's classes are not self-paced, per se, nor self-directed. And the
teacher/student ratio varies from 24:1 to 28:1, although we have enough
parent volunteers that there are usually other adults around. Honestly, when
you get a bunch of kids with different ability levels together, ditch the
whole "letter grade" system, encourage group learning environments and make
the curriculum one which allows children to do assignments to their ability
rather than to one "objective" standard, then yes, you can accomplish an
education with the same basic resources any public school should have.



Ain't gonna happen in public schools as long as there's
this rabid push for "accountability" through testing and attendance
and other "objective" measurements that mean little to nothing.


My opinion is that a bright kid whose parents feel the kid needs to be out
of school once a week to get a decent education is a symptom of a school
that is failing to provide an adequate education.



Absolutely--that's the whole problem! The solution
to this situation isn't to make the situation more difficult
all around by bailing on school 20+ percent of the time. It's
to find out how to meet the child's needs in the class (or a
different class) or find a different system. I don't see the
sense in trying to put band-aids on broken systems.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #89  
Old October 28th 03, 03:25 AM
Ericka Kammerer
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

toto wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:43:56 -0600, "Vicki"
wrote:


Oh, my dd
is at risk. Better threaten us with fines. I am really irate. Who came up
with such a stupid law?


Blame the zero-tolerance folks, the no child left behind folks...

Bush anyone?



Bingo. And as far as I can tell, it's going to
get worse, not better.

Best wishes,
Ericka

  #90  
Old October 28th 03, 03:41 AM
Vicki
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Default Bright 2nd grader & school truancy / part-time home-school?

"Penny Gaines" wrote
Vicki wrote

[snip]
I think you're right about the problem with truancy and part-time
home-schooling. I'm not sure how we avoid that. As an aside, I'm not
worried about dd missing what is taught--she knows it. Nor do I expect
her
teacher to spend additional time to get dd caught up--dd is ahead. 2nd
grade curriculum seems pretty limited if you're already a good reader

and
good with numbers. Our idea was to give dd a day of more challenging
materials. It is hard to fit them into the weekends and evenings

(piano,
scouts, time with dad and siblings, etc.) dd reads constantly, but I'd
hoped to use the day for more hands on learning--science projects, trips
to
museum, etc. She's expressed interest in this (as opposed to full-time
homeschooling, which she's rejected,) but maybe this won't be allowed.


Can you work with the teacher to ensure she gets more challanging work
at school. My 7yo is in the top groups in her class, in spite of being
the youngest girl in th eclass, and the teacher sets her group more
challanging work while she goes over the basics with the rest of the

class.
This is exactly how my teacher handled it when I was her age as well.


Hi Penny--
We went and talked w/the teacher, and send notes back and forth each week,
but have our first "official" conference with her in November. She gives dd
some work more challenging then the mean, but hasn't challenged her yet.
There is a "group" of advanced kids they put in her classroom. But it's
hard for the teacher--she didn't have reading material in her classroom at
dd's level; she is doing one-digit addition and subtraction when dd is
trying to figure out multiplication; her spelling words are one's that my
4-yo can do. dd seems to already knows most of the 2nd grade curriculum.
Teacher works in some things that are more advanced for this "group", but
much of the day dd is with the class on the normal lesson, or she colors, re
ads, or talks with friends when she finishes early.

How much of your 7yo's day is spent doing things that challenge her? How
much time is she separated out into this "group" of advanced kids? How are
you measuring what she has learned? Does she do the same worksheets that
the rest of the class does, and then the more challenging things on top of
that? Or does the teacher substitute an entirely different worksheet book
for her? Does the teacher have an assistant to help her teach two
curriculums, or is s/he able to do this alone? We'd like dd to get a good
education (which is why we thought of taking her out one day/wk for things
not on teachers curriculum.) And we don't want to be unreasonable in what
we ask of dd's teachers (this is why we try to volunteer to help the kids
who are at the other end of the spectrum, to help narrow the range the
teacher has to teach to.)
Thanks.
Vicki


 




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