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The Question...has it been answered?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 2nd 05, 06:42 PM
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Default The Question...has it been answered?

Apparently not. But it looks like some folks, a rather large
contingent, think it's somewhere in the infant stage, with whips and
switches being used on them for crying.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGJ4B6UE11.DTL

If you don't approve of these things, or just want to know more, visit
http://stoptherod.net/

Check out a few links provided on this page. (by the way, a Mule will
very likely kill you if you whip it. Or at least kill someone.)

"Thank you for your interest in the problem of the baby-whipping book
"To Train Up a Child," by Michael and Debi Pearl. This book reads like
a child abuse manual. Throughout the book, the Pearls recommend
whipping *infants* and young children on their bare skin. They do this
for "obedience training," and compare it to training a dog or mule to
obtain "instant, unquestioning obedience." They say ALL children need
to be whipped with a "rod." They clearly dislike babies calling them
"tyrants" "terrorists" "whining, spoiled brats" and "devious", with
"criminal minds." According to the Pearls' sick thinking, babies are
determined to make parents' lives "as miserable as possible."
Obviously the Pearls have not read the New Testament, which contains
Jesus' command to "take care that you do not despise one of these
little ones!" Mt. 18:10 In fact, the Pearls have no religious
credentials whatsoever!! And no child development credentials either.
Their first two children are often held up as examples of how
baby-whipping "works", but these young people were not subjected to
their evil training techniques. "

Here are some references:

1) The Pearls recommend whipping infants only a few months old on their
bare skin. They describe whipping their own 4 month old daughter (p.9).
They recommend whipping the bare skin of "every child" (p.2) for
"Christians and non-Christians" (p.5) and for "every transgression"
(p.1). Parents who don't whip their babies into complete submission are
portrayed as indifferent, lazy, careless and neglectful (p.19) and are
"creating a Nazi" (p.45).

2) On p.60 they recommend whipping babies who cannot sleep and are
crying, and to never allow them "to get up." On p.61 they recommend
whipping a 12 month old girl for crying. On p.79 they recommend
whipping a 7 month old for screaming.

3) On p.65 co-author Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old
she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something
she tells him to play with. On p.56 Debi Pearl hits a 2 year old so
hard "a karate chop like wheeze came from somewhere deep inside."

4) On p.44 they say not to let the child's crying while being hit to
"cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking."
On p.59 they recommend whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally
broken."

5) On p.55 the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for
her.

6) On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being
whipped, whip them anyway. And "if you have to sit on him to spank him,
then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove
that you are bigger, tougher." "Defeat him totally." On p.80 they
recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful*
spanking." On the same page they say to whip small children on their
bare skin until they stop screaming. "Don't be bullied. Give him more
of the same." They say to continue whipping until their crying turns
into a "wounded, submissive whimper."

7) On p.47 they recommend their various whips, including "a belt or
larger tree branch" to hit children.

8) The Pearls recommend pulling a nursing infant's hair (p.7), and
describe tripping their non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep
water (p.67). They recommend ignoring an infant's bumped head when he
falls to the floor, and ignoring skinned knees (p.86). They also say
"if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice." (p.81) And on p.103
the Pearls say if children lose their shoes, "let them go without until
they (the children) can make the money to buy more."

9) The Pearls claim their "training" methods are Godly, yet they have
*no religious training or credentials* They never mention Jesus'
injunctions to forgive "seventy times seven" and be merciful, and they
decry the "extraordinary ingnorance of modern psychology."

The Pearls' methods have resulted in parents being investigated by
Child Protective Services, children being taken away from parents, a
restraining order against a father, and even a babysitter going to jail
on felony charges!

Please write a review at Amazon: Pearls Review Form and/or Barnes and
Noble: Pearls Review Form The whole book can be read on-line at:
Hokkai: Train Up a Child

Your review will send a message to those parents who might be tempted
to try whipping their babies into total submission! It's even illegal
to treat pets that way!!

Thank you everyone!!

Stop The Rod

  #2  
Old November 2nd 05, 07:19 PM
Doan
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Default The Question...has it been answered?


Question: Are there any studies that show the non-cp alternatives are
better than spanking under the same statistical analysis?


Doan



  #3  
Old November 2nd 05, 07:50 PM
Opinions
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Default The Question...has it been answered?

Doan wrote:
Question: Are there any studies that show the non-cp alternatives are
better than spanking under the same statistical analysis?


Doan



Sure there are. I'll get back to you just as soon as I write a
conclusion unsupported by the data.

  #4  
Old November 2nd 05, 11:39 PM
Carlson LaVonne
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Default The Question...has it been answered?

When you reply, be sure to include data from longitudinal studies that
actually show positive non-cp alternatives to be more effective than
corporal punishment. I would like to see data, not theorie, and not
opinions.

I would like you to discuss what "better" means. Do the studies show
that children who are corporally punished have better long-term outcomes
than children who receive alternative and positive forms of discipline?

You know, it's not that hard to hit an individual two, three, or four
times the size of an adult into compliance (at least in the presence of
the hitter).

I want to see the studies that show both short and long term data
revealing that corporal punishment has better results than other forms
of guidance/discipline.

This is a body of research that I have as yet been unable to uncover, so
I'm very interested in the references you can provide.

LaVonne

Opinions wrote:

Doan wrote:

Question: Are there any studies that show the non-cp alternatives are
better than spanking under the same statistical analysis?


Doan




Sure there are. I'll get back to you just as soon as I write a
conclusion unsupported by the data.


  #5  
Old November 3rd 05, 01:02 AM
Doan
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Default The Question...has it been answered?


But you are the one who claimed to have posted such studies "numerous
times", Lav0nne! Are you admitting that you are a liar?

Doan


On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

When you reply, be sure to include data from longitudinal studies that
actually show positive non-cp alternatives to be more effective than
corporal punishment. I would like to see data, not theorie, and not
opinions.

I would like you to discuss what "better" means. Do the studies show
that children who are corporally punished have better long-term outcomes
than children who receive alternative and positive forms of discipline?

You know, it's not that hard to hit an individual two, three, or four
times the size of an adult into compliance (at least in the presence of
the hitter).

I want to see the studies that show both short and long term data
revealing that corporal punishment has better results than other forms
of guidance/discipline.

This is a body of research that I have as yet been unable to uncover, so
I'm very interested in the references you can provide.

LaVonne

Opinions wrote:

Doan wrote:

Question: Are there any studies that show the non-cp alternatives are
better than spanking under the same statistical analysis?


Doan




Sure there are. I'll get back to you just as soon as I write a
conclusion unsupported by the data.




 




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