at odds in discipline

On Apr 15, 5:42*am, "Stephanie" wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message

...





In article , toypup says...

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toypup says...

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , toypup says...

Having a vague idea that it's not good to yell doesn't give one much
of
a
place
to start in all the available books. *The parenting classes really are
set
up
for the people that need it.

Which is why I recommend the book that worked for me. *It's a 5 week
program
that showed me the steps to get to the point of not yelling.

But she's not the yeller, and the yeller is not going to read the book..

But she's having trouble with a tantruming child, which the book addresses
with practical step-by-step approaches. *I read the book because my child
sounded a lot like hers does right now.

What she needs is something that gives some background in child
development
(such as, why one doesn't reason it out with a five year old) and gives
immediate, pracical advice as to how to deal day to day with a child
that
age.

Which is what the book does.

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. *It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has
admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. *Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family
situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I recommend
her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they
have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other
people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Banty

That is probably the best advice. But only she will know which style will
suit her. The one workshop I took that I did find useful have a few
components that worked for me (Vickie, still there? Of course, YMMV)

I'm still here. Just soaking up the info.

I ordered a book and have been reading up on kids and their different
temperments. Also DD5's teacher (dang! what a great person)
negotiated with little one. She said if she could "give mom a break"
in the morning, she could help her out in class. It has helped.

Another big thing was that it did finally dawn on me (due to you all)
that Noodle is NOT a morning person, just like dad. I don't know why
that was flying under my radar, but it is true. She needs extra time
to get rolling.

Banty mentioned that sometimes one parent ends up being sort of the
single parent while married. This I feel is the case. I don't know
if that is the right mentality to have, but if I am going to carry the
blame for the kids' behavior, then I feel I am going to make a few
decisions without discussing them first. Hell, maybe he doesn't even
want to be bothered in the first place.

Our city summer guide has not come out yet. When it does I may look
for a parenting class to go to.

Deja was correct in mentioning that the yelling is most always
accompanied by name calling, so a couple weeks ago I put out a cussing
can/name calling bucket for all of us. You know the drill - you do
it, you pay it. If anything, it has brought his belittling into full
focus. He didn't think it was an issue, but the can had been filling
up fast, and I am not the one there telling him to knock it off. It
also has made some difference.

Anyway, I keep plodding along.

The latest in our family saga - DD10 has been getting teased for her
beauty mark. Kids at school are calling her mole-face.
She has to do a biography book report in class, so I suggested she do
Cindy Crawford, probably *the* most famous super-model, and low and
behold has a mole.
I think DD10 is excited over it. She is a talented speaker, loves
speech, so maybe she can get her point across to some of the
numbskulls in her class.
I also told her some kids are cruel and even if she didn't have a
beauty mark, kids would find something else to tease about. She
doesn't believe me, of course, but I keep trying.

Calgon take me away!

Vickie

On Apr 15, 8:10*am, Banty wrote:

snip

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. *It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. *Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I recommend her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Grandparents can be asked to stay over for a few days and observe.
They are usually quite willing to give advice . I wonder if the
advice is worse than what you would get in counseling, and it is
certainly cheaper.

"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 8:10 am, Banty wrote:

snip

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has
admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family
situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I recommend
her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they
have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other
people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Grandparents can be asked to stay over for a few days and observe.
They are usually quite willing to give advice . I wonder if the
advice is worse than what you would get in counseling, and it is
certainly cheaper.

But the grandparents are also in-laws, hence with their own bias. I can
imagine dh's parents being "poor boy, she expects him to work all day AND
put up with the children in the morning". Dh is very similar to the OP in
the morning (none of us are morning people)
Debbie

In article , Welches says...


"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 8:10 am, Banty wrote:

snip

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has
admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family
situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I recommend
her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they
have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other
people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Grandparents can be asked to stay over for a few days and observe.
They are usually quite willing to give advice . I wonder if the
advice is worse than what you would get in counseling, and it is
certainly cheaper.

But the grandparents are also in-laws, hence with their own bias. I can
imagine dh's parents being "poor boy, she expects him to work all day AND
put up with the children in the morning". Dh is very similar to the OP in
the morning (none of us are morning people)
Debbie


They don't have to be *his* parents.

Banty

"Welches" wrote in message
...
But the grandparents are also in-laws, hence with their own bias. I can
imagine dh's parents being "poor boy, she expects him to work all day AND
put up with the children in the morning". Dh is very similar to the OP in
the morning (none of us are morning people)
Debbie

Though I feel I have a good relationship with my IL's compared to many
people, I do get the feeling from them that any poor parenting that is being
done is most certainly my fault. It's hard to blame their own child.

Vickie wrote:
[...]
Banty mentioned that sometimes one parent ends up being sort of the
single parent while married. This I feel is the case. I don't know
if that is the right mentality to have, but if I am going to carry the
blame for the kids' behavior, then I feel I am going to make a few
decisions without discussing them first. Hell, maybe he doesn't even
want to be bothered in the first place.

The phrases 'vicious circle' and 'self-fulfilling prophecy' are running
through my head at this point. If you deliberately take the approach of
doing things your way, shutting him out, and not even wanting to discuss
it, then it's going to be pretty hard to blame him for not being
involved. And I know that's what's happening already, but at least you
can be working to try to make things better rather than worse.

Have you tried taking the opposite approach - being proactive about
asking his opinions on how to do things, *before* he gets to the point
of screaming at you and telling you you're doing it all wrong? "Honey,
I'd appreciate your advice. X happened with the children, and I'm
worried this might be becoming a problem. I could do with discussing
some ideas on how to handle it." And then actually listen to what he
says and genuinely try to do as much of it as you feel you can.

[...]
Deja was correct in mentioning that the yelling is most always
accompanied by name calling, so a couple weeks ago I put out a cussing
can/name calling bucket for all of us. You know the drill - you do
it, you pay it. If anything, it has brought his belittling into full
focus. He didn't think it was an issue, but the can had been filling
up fast, and I am not the one there telling him to knock it off. It
also has made some difference.

LOL! Love this one!

Good luck with whatever you try.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Welches says...


"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 8:10 am, Banty wrote:

snip

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has
admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family
situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I
recommend
her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they
have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other
people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Grandparents can be asked to stay over for a few days and observe.
They are usually quite willing to give advice . I wonder if the
advice is worse than what you would get in counseling, and it is
certainly cheaper.

But the grandparents are also in-laws, hence with their own bias. I can
imagine dh's parents being "poor boy, she expects him to work all day AND
put up with the children in the morning". Dh is very similar to the OP in
the morning (none of us are morning people)
Debbie


They don't have to be *his* parents.

Or her parents-in which case he may well say "well they would back her up".
I was thinking he'd be more likely to listen and do something for his
parents. If she brings in her parents then it could look like "us" against
"you".
Debbie

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

Vickie wrote:
[...]
Banty mentioned that sometimes one parent ends up being sort of the
single parent while married. This I feel is the case. I don't know
if that is the right mentality to have, but if I am going to carry the
blame for the kids' behavior, then I feel I am going to make a few
decisions without discussing them first. Hell, maybe he doesn't even
want to be bothered in the first place.

The phrases 'vicious circle' and 'self-fulfilling prophecy' are running
through my head at this point. If you deliberately take the approach of
doing things your way, shutting him out, and not even wanting to discuss
it, then it's going to be pretty hard to blame him for not being
involved. And I know that's what's happening already, but at least you
can be working to try to make things better rather than worse.

That definately can be true - and she should be bringing him in and seeing if
she can work it out. All the better for all if she can.

But I have seen many situations where, either through belligerence like in this
case, or just being "too busy" or learned helplessness, one person is the only
real parent, and guess who. Having the other parent pitch in to help ("help"?
- with their own lives? but anyway...) once in a while in a positive way being
the best that can be gotten is one thing. Having the other parent's involvement
be negative, or give that parent a sense of complete ownership with little
actual work in doing the childrearing, is quite another.

It's up to Vickie to figure out what kind of situation she has. Of course that
should start with bringing the father in more and examinning to what extent
she's been shutting him out.

Banty

In article , Welches says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Welches says...


"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 8:10 am, Banty wrote:

snip

OK OK.

I'm not anti-book. It's that, first of all, I haven't read *your* book
(admitting ignorance), but ever book that comes along claims, and has
admirers
that claim, that this is THE book. Maybe it *is* the right book for her
situation.

But in general, because of the above, and because a lot of family
situations
(like hers) isn't exactly conducive to contemplative reading, I
recommend
her
going to the ped and finding what classes she can take, where IME they
have a
very good practical orientation, she can interact, and maybe meet other
people
in the same shoes as her.

She can do *both*, you know.

Grandparents can be asked to stay over for a few days and observe.
They are usually quite willing to give advice . I wonder if the
advice is worse than what you would get in counseling, and it is
certainly cheaper.

But the grandparents are also in-laws, hence with their own bias. I can
imagine dh's parents being "poor boy, she expects him to work all day AND
put up with the children in the morning". Dh is very similar to the OP in
the morning (none of us are morning people)
Debbie


They don't have to be *his* parents.

Or her parents-in which case he may well say "well they would back her up".
I was thinking he'd be more likely to listen and do something for his
parents. If she brings in her parents then it could look like "us" against
"you".
Debbie



Sure, that can happen too.

Family dynamics notwithstanding (yes, either set of granparents may come in with
biases such that they're not helpful in the end..) isn't there some way to take
advantage of the experience of the grandparents??

Banty

On Apr 16, 8:19*am, Banty wrote

Family dynamics notwithstanding (yes, either set of granparents may come in with
biases such that they're not helpful in the end..) isn't there some way to take
advantage of the experience of the grandparents??

I think you're better off finding a non-biased 3rd party. I love my
parents to pieces and they did raise 8 kids, and I do use their
experience somewhat, but inviting them in to offer parenting advice is
a recipe for disaster. Ditto with DH's father.

I prefer to utilize our babysitter (20+ years of childcare experience,
helping raise many kids of a variety of backgrounds and recipients of
different parenting styles). She has her own way, but she's learned to
adapt it to the needs of the kid. We learn a lot from her!