Preparing sibling for birth process?

wrote:

A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America.

While doing a bit of googling to find out what life is actually like for
women in Afghanistan these days, I came across
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/wrd/afghan-women-2k2.htm. Must say it
didn't leave me terribly impressed with the level of respect and value
these women are getting. Single motherhood isn't a path I'd want to go
down, but to me it sounds vastly preferable than the life that's
described for Afghanistan women.


However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.

Yes. From
http://www.channel4.com/life/microsi...tan/women.html, it
sounds as though – even though life for women has improved post-Taliban
– many women still have their lives severely restricted by the threat of
violence. Is that not something you see as oppressive?


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

wrote:
On Apr 6, 1:45 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:

[...]
I meant that the traditional marriage model of one parent focusing on
the family while the other parent earning the living is a great model.

As the partner earning the living in such a model, I can certainly vouch
for the fact that it's great for me. I get to keep on doing the job I
love, without any worries about organising childcare or how my children
are coping. And I agree that it's great for my children that they can
be looked after full-time by their parents in the early years. However,
it's not so great for my husband. He's the one who's stuck at home with
a screaming baby and a three-year-old acting up, the one who's taken
years out of his career with no guarantee that he'll be able to get back
into it when our younger child is old enough for us to feel comfortable
about leaving her with a childminder.

Now, that's not to say that either of us has any regrets about choosing
to do things this way. We're both glad that our financial circumstances
are such that we have been able to manage to avoid daycare during the
early years. And there are practical reasons why this was the best way
to ensure our children got full-time parental care. But I don't know
that I'd call it 'great' in such a blanket, unqualified way. I think
that it can be great for some families. For others, it's the best of a
bunch of imperfect options. I do wish that we had some way of spreading
the impact of time out of work (in terms both of missing out on present
satisfaction and on future career options) so that it didn't fall so
disproportionately on one parent. If my husband's line of work had been
the kind of thing where part-time work was available, then that might
have been the ideal solution for us – we could both have worked
part-time and had different days at home with the children. I think
that's an even better model, in those occasional cases where it's
actually feasible. And there are all kinds of other ways of doing things.

Of course, sometimes there happens to be a perfect solution for an
individual family. For most families, though, it's a matter of finding
the one that has the fewest disadvantages for the family all round.
That's what I mean by saying that one-size solutions don't fit all.

What I see in America today is a couple has a baby and immediately
dumps the baby in daycare while they both pursue careers.

I think 'dumps' is the wrong word, as it suggests that all they want to
do is get rid of the baby, which is rarely the case. The abysmal
maternity leave options in your country do mean that many couples have
rather limited options.

It's the feminist doctrine that perverts and
attacks the marriage model.
shrug I don't think there's such a thing as *the* feminist doctrine.

It exists. It tells women that they are doormats, maids and human
slaves if they stay home and/or take care of their husbands and
children. It also tells women that they are inferior and taken
advantage of

That's *a* feminist doctrine, not *the* feminist doctrine. You're
making the common mistake of believing that the extremists in a movement
equate to the whole movement. 'Feminist' is too loose and vague a label
for any of the doctrines that fall under it to merit a definite article.

when in fact, the realty was that women had/have a better
life and were more respected and valuable prior to and after feminism.

In what way?

Feminism is a pretty loose and widespread set of beliefs (I know one
feminist who defined her own feminism beliefs simply as "the belief that
women are fully human"). I think there are beliefs on feminist,
anti-feminist, and couldn't-care-less-about-feminism sides that can
potentially pervert and attack marriage.

Know of any that can promote a healthy marriage?

Sure. A willingness to accept that there is more than one side to every
story and, no matter how clear-cut your grievances seem, it's important
to find out how things look to your partner and hear what they have to
say on the matter. A determination to show your appreciation for the
things your partner does – the little as well as the big - rather than
taking them for granted. A determination to prioritise your partner,
making time to find out what's going on in his or her life regardless of
what else is going on and taking up your attention. And an attitude
that the two of you are inn this together and will sort problems out as
a team.


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

"NL" wrote in message
...
agsf_57 schrieb:
On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
snip
And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother
in
America huh.

Banty

Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...


Have you ever heard the term widow?

Not agreeing with the troll, but technically speaking, you are not an unwed
single mother. You're a widow.

I'm sorry for your loss.

And can we now please stop feeding the troll?

cu
nicole

Yes, please. I blocked him ages ago, so only see the troll feeding posts,
not the original. I wish everyone would.
--

Jamie Clark

On Apr 20, 3:02 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
wrote:
A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America.

While doing a bit of googling to find out what life is actually like for
women in Afghanistan these days, I came across
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/wrd/afghan-women-2k2.htm. Must say it
didn't leave me terribly impressed with the level of respect and value
these women are getting. Single motherhood isn't a path I'd want to go
down, but to me it sounds vastly preferable than the life that's
described for Afghanistan women.

The women punished are those who go out of the scope of their society.
Remember, not only are the men inflicting the punishment, but so are
the women.

However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.

Yes. Fromhttp://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/A/afghanistan/women.html, it
sounds as though – even though life for women has improved post-Taliban
– many women still have their lives severely restricted by the threat of
violence. Is that not something you see as oppressive?

Wanting to divorce your husband to become a doctor is not improvement.
Becoming a westernized country is not improvement. Here is some food
for thought:
http://www.angryharry.com/eswerewome...dinthewest.htm

Sarah

Regards...

Jamie Clark schrieb:
"NL" wrote in message
...
agsf_57 schrieb:
On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
snip
And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother
in
America huh.

Banty
Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...

Have you ever heard the term widow?

Not agreeing with the troll, but technically speaking, you are not an unwed
single mother. You're a widow.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.
It's just that somehow in most peoples minds single mothers are the root
of all evil and we must be... weeded out. And also, something must be
really wrong with us because we didn't manage to hang on to the father
of our child(ren). And we're really the ones to blame for the children
not growing up in a happy family. Well, I left because I was beaten,
kicked and verbally abused. I don't think that's a healthy
relationship/family to grow up in. I think being a single parent family
is much more healthy than a family where abuse happens regularly. But of
course I'm cheating my child out of a wonderful relationship with his
other parent... sure.


And can we now please stop feeding the troll?

cu
nicole

Yes, please. I blocked him ages ago, so only see the troll feeding posts,
not the original. I wish everyone would.

I did, too. But this just really struck me as something to speak up about..

cu
nicole

On Apr 21, 6:53�am, NL wrote:


Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.

I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single
mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you
meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one
who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's
just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples.

--Helen

On Apr 20, 3:45*pm, agsf_57 wrote:

It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend
their days watching Oprah and go shopping.

You are trolling. There do exist lazy women and lazy men, but that is
an insulting generalization.

In article , NL says...

Jamie Clark schrieb:
"NL" wrote in message
...
agsf_57 schrieb:
On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
snip
And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother
in
America huh.

Banty
Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...

Have you ever heard the term widow?

Not agreeing with the troll, but technically speaking, you are not an unwed
single mother. You're a widow.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.
It's just that somehow in most peoples minds single mothers are the root
of all evil and we must be... weeded out. And also, something must be
really wrong with us because we didn't manage to hang on to the father
of our child(ren). And we're really the ones to blame for the children
not growing up in a happy family. Well, I left because I was beaten,
kicked and verbally abused. I don't think that's a healthy
relationship/family to grow up in. I think being a single parent family
is much more healthy than a family where abuse happens regularly. But of
course I'm cheating my child out of a wonderful relationship with his
other parent... sure.

Or, that *most* by far, people do not demonize single mothers, any more than
they demonize divorced people anymore, being as just about everyone knows people
who are single mothers by many various paths (which include things, like -
adoption as a single person) amongst their sisters, daughters, coworkers,
neighbors.

We have politicians pointing to their upbringing by single mothers, by golly. I
think their polsters would have alerted them to this pervasive revulsion against
single moms!



And can we now please stop feeding the troll?

cu
nicole

Yes, please. I blocked him ages ago, so only see the troll feeding posts,
not the original. I wish everyone would.

I did, too. But this just really struck me as something to speak up about..

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with.
He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D

Banty

schrieb:
On Apr 21, 6:53�am, NL wrote:

Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down
single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such
a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into
single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on
my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't
something we chose to do, it was something that happened.

I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single
mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you
meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one
who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's
just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples.

I don't see anything wrong with that either, it's just that it's not the
majority of women waking up one day thinking "Hey, raising kids on my
own, that's what I want to do with my life".
Most single parents I know were in relationships that didn't work out.
And I think a relationship that's over should not be continued "for the
sake of the children" because children do not benefit from living in an
environment where the parents resent being together. (not that I think
the fights going on after divorce/split ups are beneficial either, but
that's different story).

cu
nicole

Banty schrieb:

Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with.
He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on
some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to
contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does
represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with.

See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****.

Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D

see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...)

cu
nicole