If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#181
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:15:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote: However, the majority of girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends. I'm in my 60s and this was not true even back in my day. Most of my friends aspired to marry a man they loved, not someone who necessarily had a lot of money. Btw, I hate going to the mall and certainly would not go with my girlfriends even when I was younger. When I was raising my ds and dd in the 70s through the 90s, girls were much more likely to be encouraged to have a solid career than they were back in the 50s. My dd certainly did not aspire to marrying a wealthy man to stay home with children. She doesn't actually want children because she loves being able to pick up and go travel whenever she wants to. She was actually the breadwinner in her marriages (she is divorced now). She is childfree by choice. Dorothy -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#182
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote:
agsf_57 wrote: It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping. However, the majority of girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends. Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the majority of women. Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind of people you hang out with. No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally want to marry the richest man that their looks can afford and men want to marry/date the youngest and most hottest girl that they can attract with their wealth. I never wanted to ?marry a rich man and stay home and go to the mall everyday" you do not fall into the majority. . Marry a rich man - might have been nice but stay home or go to the mall every day, no thank you! I like my work and don't much care for shopping. -- Zip Regards... |
#183
|
|||
|
|||
sperm donos are fathers? (was: Preparing sibling for birth process?)
In article , NL wrote:
From the societal point of view, male sperm donors should not be able revoke their responsibility to financially support the children they father. If the mother dies, for example, the father, not the taxpayer, ought to be first means of support, and he ought to be given the chance to adopt the child. I'd agree that he should be given a right of refusal, but it would depend on whether there were really no other relatives capable of looking after the child. He should be counted as a relative, but not a very close one. More like the kind you get in old stories, where the girl is orphaned and goes to live with an elderly relative (who she has never previously met) on the other side of the country! The problem with this approach is that the sperm donor then has to also be given the right to meet his children, theoretically even if the mother/parents of the children do not consent to this. The parents aren't giving consent because they are in the morgue. I am not sure if you are misunderstanding, or just applying a different set of legislative assumptions. And how would you feel if your children were pushed over to some guy they never met, some guy _you_ never met? And who has not had a homestudy done and who might not be an even remotely ideal father? At this point, we're getting towards having a child made ward of the state because we can't find any close relatives. Who is to say that a *willing* bio-father, who has grown up quite a bit since his sperm-donor days, might not be a good choice? Why should we assume that he would not be assessed for suitability first, anyway? You're treating sperm donors like mothers/parents in an open adoption and I don't really see those two things as the same, which they are not. Not at the moment, in my jurisdiction. But as I said, they may draw closer together in future. A generation ago, all adoptions were 'closed' here, until the psychological toll on the mothers and children became apparent. I don't see any reason for the children of sperm donors to be less hurt by the current level of secrecy. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#184
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , NL wrote:
Chookie schrieb: In article , NL wrote: Chookie schrieb: In article , " wrote: I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood. snip Well, I think it depend on what you compare it with. My choice was to stay in an abusive relationship, risk my and my child health and wellbeing or leave, and I would always, _always_ leave an abusive relationship behind. If you read the post again, you will see that we were not talking about *that* kind of choice (*). We were considering women without partners who choose to have a child on their own. Yes, but if you look further up in the thread it had been about single parents in general, specifically about your mother leaving your father to live with your grandmother.... Um, no -- look at my post again. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#185
|
|||
|
|||
sperm donos are fathers?
Chookie schrieb:
In article , NL wrote: From the societal point of view, male sperm donors should not be able revoke their responsibility to financially support the children they father. If the mother dies, for example, the father, not the taxpayer, ought to be first means of support, and he ought to be given the chance to adopt the child. I'd agree that he should be given a right of refusal, but it would depend on whether there were really no other relatives capable of looking after the child. He should be counted as a relative, but not a very close one. More like the kind you get in old stories, where the girl is orphaned and goes to live with an elderly relative (who she has never previously met) on the other side of the country! The problem with this approach is that the sperm donor then has to also be given the right to meet his children, theoretically even if the mother/parents of the children do not consent to this. The parents aren't giving consent because they are in the morgue. I am not sure if you are misunderstanding, or just applying a different set of legislative assumptions. The problem I'm seeing is that this new law will then be challenged while the parents are still alive. For me it's important that sperm (and egg) donors do give up the right to claim any child conceived as their own. No matter what changes. And how would you feel if your children were pushed over to some guy they never met, some guy _you_ never met? And who has not had a homestudy done and who might not be an even remotely ideal father? At this point, we're getting towards having a child made ward of the state because we can't find any close relatives. Who is to say that a *willing* bio-father, who has grown up quite a bit since his sperm-donor days, might not be a good choice? Why should we assume that he would not be assessed for suitability first, anyway? Well, you did state that he should be paying for this kid he helped bring into the world. You can't make him pay automatically while he doesn't get custody automatically as well. You're treating sperm donors like mothers/parents in an open adoption and I don't really see those two things as the same, which they are not. Not at the moment, in my jurisdiction. But as I said, they may draw closer together in future. A generation ago, all adoptions were 'closed' here, until the psychological toll on the mothers and children became apparent. I don't see any reason for the children of sperm donors to be less hurt by the current level of secrecy. Are there any studies that suggest the same problems for children conceived through sperm/egg donations? I think the difference is that the child was born by its mother. I don't know the laws concerning surrogacy, but I'm almost sure that a surrogate doesn't get the same rights a bio mom gets in an open adoption and those two are a lot closer experience wise, psychologically speaking, because she's pregnant with this child she'll give over to the parents once it's born. And also I don't think she should be the one supporting the child should the parents die. Just like a bio mom of an adopted child should be the one to support that child should its parents die. Especially since one of the main reasons for adoption still is poverty/the inability to properly support a child. cu nicole |
#186
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
Chookie schrieb:
In article , NL wrote: snip Yes, but if you look further up in the thread it had been about single parents in general, specifically about your mother leaving your father to live with your grandmother.... Um, no -- look at my post again. Can you give me the post ID I've kind of lost track in the sub threads I think... cu nicole |
#187
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 21, 12:36 am, agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 20, 3:02 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote: wrote: A married woman covered in a burka in Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in America. While doing a bit of googling to find out what life is actually like for women in Afghanistan these days, I came across http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/wrd/afghan-women-2k2.htm. Must say it didn't leave me terribly impressed with the level of respect and value these women are getting. Single motherhood isn't a path I'd want to go down, but to me it sounds vastly preferable than the life that's described for Afghanistan women. The women punished are those who go out of the scope of their society. OK, I get you – you're saying that these women get respect if they remain within the strictly defined boundaries of their society. So, as long as they don't work outside the home or travel freely, and remain swathed in all-concealing clothes no matter how uncomfortable or inappropriate for the weather this may be, they'll get respect from their menfolk. What you seem to be implying is that you think this is somehow a worthwhile trade-off which ultimately leads to women's lives being much better. Care to explain in exactly what way you feel this to be the case? However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed. Yes. Fromhttp://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/A/afghanistan/women.html, it sounds as though – even though life for women has improved post-Taliban – many women still have their lives severely restricted by the threat of violence. Is that not something you see as oppressive? Wanting to divorce your husband to become a doctor is not improvement. Having the opportunity to become a doctor is improvement. Not having to choose between your marriage and your chance at a career because your husband wouldn't back you into that kind of corner would, of course, be even more improvement. Becoming a westernized country is not improvement. Before we get into debating that point, may I point out that you haven't actually answered my question? Regardless of whether or not you see the situation for women in pre-Taliban Afghanistan as being better or worse than that in a Western country, do you disagree with the statement that these women are oppressed? If you do not see being prevented from working or travelling freely as oppression, then can you clarify what the word 'oppressed' means to you? Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com |
#188
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
agsf_57 wrote in
ups.com: On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote: agsf_57 wrote: It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping. However, the majority of girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends. Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the majority of women. Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind of people you hang out with. No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally want to marry the richest man that their looks can afford and men want to marry/date the youngest and most hottest girl that they can attract with their wealth. bull. it might be "common knowledge", in an urban legend sort of way, but when it comes down to actually choosing a mate looks & wealth have very little to do with it for women. *some* men never grow out of puberty & do go for the "youngest, hottest chick"... usually leaving thier now older, possibly less attractive wife & kids out in the cold.. don't be so condecending. I never wanted to ?marry a rich man and stay home and go to the mall everyday" you do not fall into the majority. the *majority* don't fall into your idea of what women want. how much time does your little woman spend at the mall? lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
#189
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article ,
agsf_57 says... On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote: agsf_57 wrote: It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping. However, the majority of girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends. Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the majority of women. Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind of people you hang out with. No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally want to marry the richest man that their looks can afford and men want to marry/date the youngest and most hottest girl that they can attract with their wealth. Sweeet-ums - that's another fact you're going to have to back up for us. Banty |
#190
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote: agsf_57 wrote: It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping. However, the majority of girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends. Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the majority of women. Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind of people you hang out with. No dear. It's a known cultural fact I take it you don't have any actual evidence, then. ;-) Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Preparing sibling for birth process? | Akuvikate | General | 187 | April 28th 08 02:26 AM |
Preparing a sibling for new baby - any thoughts? | Cathy | Pregnancy | 15 | October 19th 04 01:22 AM |
how long was sibling w/caregiver during birth? | Karen | Pregnancy | 11 | March 18th 04 03:56 PM |
AP and new sibling | Lisa Besko | Breastfeeding | 14 | August 19th 03 06:01 PM |
Kiwi chiros and the birth process | Todd Gastaldo | Pregnancy | 0 | August 8th 03 12:46 PM |