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Preparing sibling for birth process?



 
 
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  #181  
Old April 27th 08, 03:24 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
toto
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Posts: 784
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:15:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote:

However, the majority of
girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to
the mall everyday with their girlfriends.


I'm in my 60s and this was not true even back in my day. Most of my
friends aspired to marry a man they loved, not someone who necessarily
had a lot of money.

Btw, I hate going to the mall and certainly would not go with my
girlfriends even when I was younger.

When I was raising my ds and dd in the 70s through the 90s, girls were
much more likely to be encouraged to have a solid career than they
were back in the 50s. My dd certainly did not aspire to marrying a
wealthy man to stay home with children. She doesn't actually want
children because she loves being able to pick up and go travel
whenever she wants to. She was actually the breadwinner in her
marriages (she is divorced now). She is childfree by choice.

Dorothy
--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #182  
Old April 27th 08, 03:42 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
agsf_57
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Posts: 79
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote:
agsf_57 wrote:
It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend
their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping.
However, the majority of
girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to
the mall everyday with their girlfriends.


Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the
majority of women.


Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority
of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large
percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't
say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind
of people you hang out with.


No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally want to marry
the richest man that their looks can afford and men want to marry/date
the youngest and most hottest girl that they can attract with their
wealth.


I never wanted to ?marry a rich man and stay home and go
to the mall everyday"


you do not fall into the majority.

. Marry a rich man - might have been nice
but stay home or go to the mall every day, no thank you!
I like my work and don't much care for shopping.

-- Zip


Regards...
  #183  
Old April 27th 08, 06:41 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
Chookie
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Posts: 1,085
Default sperm donos are fathers? (was: Preparing sibling for birth process?)

In article , NL wrote:

From the societal point of view, male sperm donors should not be able
revoke their responsibility to financially support the children they
father. If the mother dies, for example, the father, not the taxpayer,
ought to be first means of support, and he ought to be given the
chance to adopt the child.


I'd agree that he should be given a right of refusal, but it would depend
on
whether there were really no other relatives capable of looking after the
child. He should be counted as a relative, but not a very close one. More
like the kind you get in old stories, where the girl is orphaned and goes
to
live with an elderly relative (who she has never previously met) on the
other
side of the country!


The problem with this approach is that the sperm donor then has to also
be given the right to meet his children, theoretically even if the
mother/parents of the children do not consent to this.


The parents aren't giving consent because they are in the morgue. I am not
sure if you are misunderstanding, or just applying a different set of
legislative assumptions.

And how would you feel if your children were pushed over to some guy
they never met, some guy _you_ never met? And who has not had a
homestudy done and who might not be an even remotely ideal father?


At this point, we're getting towards having a child made ward of the state
because we can't find any close relatives. Who is to say that a *willing*
bio-father, who has grown up quite a bit since his sperm-donor days, might not
be a good choice? Why should we assume that he would not be assessed for
suitability first, anyway?

You're treating sperm donors like mothers/parents in an open adoption
and I don't really see those two things as the same, which they are not.


Not at the moment, in my jurisdiction. But as I said, they may draw closer
together in future. A generation ago, all adoptions were 'closed' here, until
the psychological toll on the mothers and children became apparent. I don't
see any reason for the children of sperm donors to be less hurt by the current
level of secrecy.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #184  
Old April 27th 08, 06:46 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
Chookie
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Posts: 1,085
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

In article , NL wrote:

Chookie schrieb:
In article , NL wrote:

Chookie schrieb:
In article
,
" wrote:

I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single
mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you
meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one
who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's
just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples.
Actually, I think it's extremely foolish to choose single motherhood.
snip

Well, I think it depend on what you compare it with. My choice was to
stay in an abusive relationship, risk my and my child health and
wellbeing or leave, and I would always, _always_ leave an abusive
relationship behind.


If you read the post again, you will see that we were not talking about
*that*
kind of choice (*). We were considering women without partners who choose
to
have a child on their own.


Yes, but if you look further up in the thread it had been about single
parents in general, specifically about your mother leaving your father
to live with your grandmother....


Um, no -- look at my post again.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/
  #185  
Old April 27th 08, 08:03 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
NL
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Posts: 444
Default sperm donos are fathers?

Chookie schrieb:
In article , NL wrote:

From the societal point of view, male sperm donors should not be able
revoke their responsibility to financially support the children they
father. If the mother dies, for example, the father, not the taxpayer,
ought to be first means of support, and he ought to be given the
chance to adopt the child.
I'd agree that he should be given a right of refusal, but it would depend
on
whether there were really no other relatives capable of looking after the
child. He should be counted as a relative, but not a very close one. More
like the kind you get in old stories, where the girl is orphaned and goes
to
live with an elderly relative (who she has never previously met) on the
other
side of the country!

The problem with this approach is that the sperm donor then has to also
be given the right to meet his children, theoretically even if the
mother/parents of the children do not consent to this.


The parents aren't giving consent because they are in the morgue. I am not
sure if you are misunderstanding, or just applying a different set of
legislative assumptions.


The problem I'm seeing is that this new law will then be challenged
while the parents are still alive.
For me it's important that sperm (and egg) donors do give up the right
to claim any child conceived as their own. No matter what changes.

And how would you feel if your children were pushed over to some guy
they never met, some guy _you_ never met? And who has not had a
homestudy done and who might not be an even remotely ideal father?


At this point, we're getting towards having a child made ward of the state
because we can't find any close relatives. Who is to say that a *willing*
bio-father, who has grown up quite a bit since his sperm-donor days, might not
be a good choice? Why should we assume that he would not be assessed for
suitability first, anyway?


Well, you did state that he should be paying for this kid he helped
bring into the world. You can't make him pay automatically while he
doesn't get custody automatically as well.

You're treating sperm donors like mothers/parents in an open adoption
and I don't really see those two things as the same, which they are not.


Not at the moment, in my jurisdiction. But as I said, they may draw closer
together in future. A generation ago, all adoptions were 'closed' here, until
the psychological toll on the mothers and children became apparent. I don't
see any reason for the children of sperm donors to be less hurt by the current
level of secrecy.


Are there any studies that suggest the same problems for children
conceived through sperm/egg donations?
I think the difference is that the child was born by its mother. I don't
know the laws concerning surrogacy, but I'm almost sure that a surrogate
doesn't get the same rights a bio mom gets in an open adoption and those
two are a lot closer experience wise, psychologically speaking, because
she's pregnant with this child she'll give over to the parents once it's
born. And also I don't think she should be the one supporting the child
should the parents die. Just like a bio mom of an adopted child should
be the one to support that child should its parents die. Especially
since one of the main reasons for adoption still is poverty/the
inability to properly support a child.

cu
nicole
  #186  
Old April 27th 08, 08:04 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
NL
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Posts: 444
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

Chookie schrieb:
In article , NL wrote:

snip
Yes, but if you look further up in the thread it had been about single
parents in general, specifically about your mother leaving your father
to live with your grandmother....


Um, no -- look at my post again.

Can you give me the post ID I've kind of lost track in the sub threads I
think...

cu
nicole
  #187  
Old April 27th 08, 10:00 AM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
[email protected]
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Posts: 12
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

On Apr 21, 12:36 am, agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 20, 3:02 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:

wrote:
A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America.


While doing a bit of googling to find out what life is actually like for
women in Afghanistan these days, I came across
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/wrd/afghan-women-2k2.htm. Must say it
didn't leave me terribly impressed with the level of respect and value
these women are getting. Single motherhood isn't a path I'd want to go
down, but to me it sounds vastly preferable than the life that's
described for Afghanistan women.


The women punished are those who go out of the scope of their society.


OK, I get you – you're saying that these women get respect if they
remain within the strictly defined boundaries of their society. So,
as long as they don't work outside the home or travel freely, and
remain swathed in all-concealing clothes no matter how uncomfortable
or inappropriate for the weather this may be, they'll get respect from
their menfolk.

What you seem to be implying is that you think this is somehow a
worthwhile trade-off which ultimately leads to women's lives being
much better. Care to explain in exactly what way you feel this to be
the case?

However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.


Yes. Fromhttp://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/A/afghanistan/women.html, it
sounds as though – even though life for women has improved post-Taliban
– many women still have their lives severely restricted by the threat of
violence. Is that not something you see as oppressive?


Wanting to divorce your husband to become a doctor is not improvement.


Having the opportunity to become a doctor is improvement. Not having
to choose between your marriage and your chance at a career because
your husband wouldn't back you into that kind of corner would, of
course, be even more improvement.

Becoming a westernized country is not improvement.


Before we get into debating that point, may I point out that you
haven't actually answered my question? Regardless of whether or not
you see the situation for women in pre-Taliban Afghanistan as being
better or worse than that in a Western country, do you disagree with
the statement that these women are oppressed? If you do not see being
prevented from working or travelling freely as oppression, then can
you clarify what the word 'oppressed' means to you?


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

  #188  
Old April 27th 08, 01:09 PM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
enigma
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Posts: 447
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

agsf_57 wrote in

ups.com:

On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee
wrote:
agsf_57 wrote:
It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so
they can spend their days watching Oprah and go [sic]
shopping.
However, the majority of
girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay
home and go to the mall everyday with their girlfriends.


Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the
truth for the majority of women.


Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the
majority of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a
large percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't
say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind
of people you hang out with.


No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally
want to marry the richest man that their looks can afford
and men want to marry/date the youngest and most hottest
girl that they can attract with their wealth.


bull. it might be "common knowledge", in an urban legend sort
of way, but when it comes down to actually choosing a mate
looks & wealth have very little to do with it for women.
*some* men never grow out of puberty & do go for the
"youngest, hottest chick"... usually leaving thier now older,
possibly less attractive wife & kids out in the cold..
don't be so condecending.

I never wanted to ?marry a rich man and stay home and go
to the mall everyday"


you do not fall into the majority.


the *majority* don't fall into your idea of what women want.
how much time does your little woman spend at the mall?

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.
  #189  
Old April 27th 08, 01:57 PM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

In article ,
agsf_57 says...

On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote:
agsf_57 wrote:
It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend
their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping.
However, the majority of
girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to
the mall everyday with their girlfriends.


Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the
majority of women.


Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority
of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large
percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't
say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind
of people you hang out with.


No dear. It's a known cultural fact that women generally want to marry
the richest man that their looks can afford and men want to marry/date
the youngest and most hottest girl that they can attract with their
wealth.


Sweeet-ums - that's another fact you're going to have to back up for us.

Banty

  #190  
Old April 27th 08, 08:18 PM posted to misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids
Sarah Vaughan
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Posts: 443
Default Preparing sibling for birth process?

agsf_57 wrote:
On Apr 26, 12:44 pm, Zipadee wrote:
agsf_57 wrote:
It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend
their days watching Oprah and go [sic] shopping.
However, the majority of
girls grow up aspiring to marry a rich man and to stay home and go to
the mall everyday with their girlfriends.
Call it trolling if you want, but what I state is the truth for the
majority of women.

Because you state it, that makes it the truth for the majority
of women, eh? You've met them all? Perhaps it's a large
percentage of the women YOU HAVE MET which doesn't
say much for the kind of places you meet them or the kind
of people you hang out with.


No dear. It's a known cultural fact


I take it you don't have any actual evidence, then. ;-)


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

 




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