How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 13, 11:12*pm, "MarieD" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

The nursing to sleep is an issue. How does one stop this? When I don't
nurse her to sleep, she just cries and cries. That said, when I'm not
here, DH is able to get her to sleep. But if she knows I'm in the
house, she won't stop til she has me.

I experienced that with my own family. My youngest grew out of nursing to
sleep, but would nurse a few minutes before bedtime until she was almost 5..
If I was away from home though, my husband had no trouble and she'd even
fall asleep while they were rocking (I rocked all of my children before bed
when they were little)

Well, since she's always co-slept, the whole transition to crib will
be an issue.

Just so you know- co-sleeping isn't always the cause of sleeping problems.
Alot of people seem to blame co-sleeping, but many babies who have only
slept in cribs have sleep problems also. My youngest wouldn't sleep alone or
with us, she just didn't sleep more than 2 hours at a time until she hit
about 14 months. Just wanted to reassure you. I've known many co-sleepers,
and I haven't known any teenagers who can't sleep alone )

Thanks for this reassurance, everyone always blames co-sleeping, but
we would not have survived the first year if we didn't co-sleep.She
reverse cycled at 12 weeks, and that was that.

On Mar 13, 6:34*pm, Rosalie B. wrote:
cjra wrote:
On Mar 13, 4:13 pm, Anne Rogers wrote:

So this is where you have to get creative, is there anyway at all you
can create a space for her - even if it means moving something every
night all a room has to be is a space where you can put a crib that is
not within reach of anything that can do her harm, which mean placing
something in the middle of an otherwise empty and undecorated room is an
option - it's what my parents do at their house, they have a room with
shelving all around the walls and precious things on them, it's a small
room, but a crib in the middle is far enough from everything. I had
friends who's baby slept in the kitchen, they moved the crib from the
hall to the kitchen every single night and every nap, it was a pain but
their kid had a normal or even better than normal sleep routine at every
age.

Our problem is lack of doors - all the doors have been removed and
sent of for stripping (lead paint removal), . So without doors,

Why does the area have to be quiet? *One of the other things that my
mom told me was not to tiptoe around when the baby was asleep because
then she would wake at every noise. *Whereas when you are running the
vacuum or dishwasher or whatever, or if she had siblings playing
around, she'd get used to some noise. *Is it that quiet at the daycare
when she takes her nap? *

Let me add also that I'm not concerned about total silence. But if she
can see/hear mommy and daddy a few feet away from her, that's not a
signal to sleep, that's a signal to play.

She doesn't have siblings yet, but I wouldn't expect the siblings to
be playing within a few feet of where a baby was trying to sleep. I
don't think that's realistic. I couldn't sleep with such commotion
going on, why should a child be able to? We're not that loud in the
evening, but we're present. DH and I talk, we read with the light on,
we interact. That interferes with her 'calm' time to sleep.

On Mar 13, 9:31*pm, "Nikki" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

This isn't a solution for us. It's only 15 mins or so commute home
from daycare, not worth stopping and as it is she refuses to eat
anyway more than 1/2 the time. I've noticed ont he few nights she's
awake later, she's hungry later. I've also tried putting her straight
to bed when we get home and it doesn't fly. She has no desire to sleep
at that time. Last night we didn't have a meltdown for a change.
I'm actually wondering if she's eating too much at daycare. I send her
b'fast, snack and lunch, and the babysitter feeds her whatever the
other kids are eating. I've considered not sending anything and let
her eat only what she has there, but I supply more 'healthy' stuff so
I want her to at least have that stuff first. So I think *at 5-6pm
she's not that hungry, but it kicks in later.

The witching hour is very common, especially with kids that go to daycare.
Ben is sometimes a fright at that time of day and he doesn't even go to
daycare. *He is high strung and when he tips over the edge he just can't
eat - no matter if he was hungry. *Then he is crying because he's unhappy,
because he's hungry, mad at his chair, *he doesn't know what he wants. *I've
had to just let him work it out for the most part because I have other kids
to feed but if you think this might be something you are dealing with you
might consider just coming home and doing nothing. *Put a few finger snacks
(like peas, cheese, or other healthy things) down and then just sitting with
her. *Sort of try to make that witching hour more calm. *It might not work,
or might not be the issue - just throwing it out there.

That's kind of what I've been doing lately. SHe likes to run around
outside, so she gets little finger foods as she's playing
outside...sometimes that's the only way to get her to eat.

Oddly enough, the last few nights she hasn't had these meltdowns at
6pm, but her sleep has been even worse than normal.

On Mar 13, 10:54*pm, "MarieD" wrote:

Have you tried a fan in the room while she's sleeping? Since the noise is
constant and soothing, *maybe* if she woke in the night it would let her
drift back down into sleep without fully waking up. Alot of people can't
sleep with total silence (I hear this constant high-pitched noise if music
or a fan is not on). Of course you many have already tried it, I haven't
read all the posts. Other than that I can't think of anything else to try.

No, and I blame DH on this one. Because he sleeps in the same room,
and can not tolerate 'white' noise*, we have no fan. I have been
insisting since about 6 weeks old that we need that...I can't wait to
finish her room!

(*oddly enough, we live in the city with a fair amount of city noise
such as cars and railroad whistles every freaking hour...as well as
'nature' noises of geckos, cats, birds, squirrels, rats, etc. so there
is a lot of noise around outside that kind of goes into the
background, but DH is a fussbucket against white noise in the house)

I've been hoping for the past year that once we have a room to put her
in, I can do all that stuff and my problem will be magically
resolved ;-) at least that's what I keep telling DH about why we have
to sweat every weekend to get this done!

While I'm at it, let me describe the setting - the house is 1600 SF,
with two bedrooms on one side and a living room and 'study' on the
other, separated by a wide hall way/entry way and central dining area.
The bathrooms are at the back, one off the bedroom adn another off the
dining area, both of which were the porch area enclosed for indoor
plumbing. One of those bedrooms will be hers, right now we're just
moving all the tools out...the living room and study are linked by a
large opening with pocket doors which at the moment don't work. The
study leads into a butler's pantry and the kitchen. The whole side of
the house is open. The central hall/dining area is not that big, it's
maybe 8 feet across between the bedroom and the "study". The study is
currently where our spare bed is kept. It's a great layout for a hot
climate - wonderful air flow, not so great a layout for keeping areas
'separate'. I describe this because I think it's a different layout
than what most suburbanites are accustomed to unless they've lived in
c. 1890s houses. There are not 'wings' as in a ranch, or bedroom areas
set away from living areas, or multiple floors.The walls are thick
which helps with noise, but if I was to put her in the study, there's
no way we could do anything else in the house except go to bed without
distracting her. It's just not fair to ask her to sleep with such
distractions, IMO.

I am sorry I haven't had time to read everything here, but I will say
both my kids have strong demanding personalities where we pretty much
had to stay on it or they'd take us for a ride - for instance we
cannot cosleep as much as I love it because no one would get any sleep
(and I know what you mean by the all night boobie buffet). I am an
attachment parent emotionally, so CIO seemed like the worst thing in
the world to me, but in the end that's what we had to do. I took
comfort in the fact that although my son made it sound as if he was
being murdered (I think he's got a future on the stage, actually) he
was always totally fine, and in the morning it was as if nothing had
happened. I felt traumatized for life, and he was busy playing and
enjoying his morning. So when I had my daughter, I threw out a lot of
the attachment stuff I originally did with my DS, for instance, with
my daughter I pretty much used scheduled sleep times and never nursed
to sleep. She sleeps much better than my son did, both naps and
nighttime, I think because our boundaries are consistent and she
learned how to go to sleep by herself - which she learned because no
matter how much she cried she knew she was going to have a nap or go
to bed. Now she goes to sleep happily, and wakes up happily. With my
DS, we finally realized the attachment stuff wasn't working and had to
do some really brutal CIO when he was 2 1/2 (lasted several horrible
weeks) but now at 3 1/2 he sleeps wonderfully, with no after effects,
and he always woke up happy as if nothing had happened the night
before. This time I didn't want to go through what we went through
with him (he only napped in the car, had trouble going to sleep
without us lying down with him or nursing him etc.) so with my
daughter we went the other direction. The only thing I can tell you is
the CIO is much harder on the parents than it is on the child. I still
love attachment stuff, but it doesn't seem to work with my kids. I did
wear both of them for as long as I could however!

Oh wow, coming (back) of out lurkdom to say I SO sympathize with
you!! Micah has always been a horrible sleeper. We (meaning I; DH
escaped to the nursery) co-slept with him for 5 months, then
transitioned him to the crib -- and that was pretty horrific, since he
routinely screamed for 1/2 hour before giving up and going to sleep.
ROUTINELY. None of this "oh it was so bad the first night, but by the
third night it was only 5 minutes, and a week later baby went right
down." Micah did not read that book. :P This went on for at least a
month -- maybe longer; I've blocked it out. :P And temperamentally,
he sounds very much like your A -- stubborn, sensitive, doesn't want
to miss out on anything. We've since come to realize that he also
gets night terrors which adds a delightful element to the sleeping
mix, but it doesn't sound like this is an issue for A.

Anyway, I want to sympathize. We really tried almost everything with
Micah. I was getting up in the middle of the night nursing him for 15
months (he weaned at 17), and he still wakes up in the middle of the
night now (he's 3 1/2). For a LONG time he'd come barging into our
room and try to climb into bed with us, and co-sleeping does *not*
work for my husband (I'm lucky he'll sleep with *me*!! -- so there
were many nighttime battles about that.

I'm afraid this isn't sounding too positive for you... but, there is
somewhat of a light at the end of the tunnel thus far. For the
last few months, he brings his blanket and pillow into our bedroom and
sleeps on our floor -- doesn't try to talk to us or climb into bed or
wake us up. Now, he's also begun boycotting his bed, and will only go
to sleep in the hallway -- I think he's afraid he's missing out on all
the wonderful things DH and I are doing on the other side of the
hallway door. But I'm fine with these compromises -- we almost
never have bedtime tantrums or middle-of-the-night dramas anymore.
And one more word of encouragement: Shiloh is a *great* sleeper.

I've got a couple suggestions which you are of course free to
ignore.

1. Instead of night time bath, how about taking a quick shower with
her in the morning? Do you have time for that? I can get in and out
with both boys in under 10 minutes, and that's giving them time to
play.

2. I hate to say it, but I think you may have to do CIO. We did it
with Micah; it sucked; we had to do it for a LONG time; I felt like a
horrible mother -- but he still loves me and wants to hang out with
me. It might make you feel better to sit down with her in advance
and explain what's going to happen -- she may or may not understand
(although she sounds like a smart cookie and I'm guessing she'll get
the gist). And I hate to admit it, but listening to his shrieking got
easier over time -- I guess we became desensitized. We also
discovered that if he *didn't* howl for his 1/2 hour, he'd be up again
about an hour later..

3. Remember that your get-her-to-sleep strategies will change, and
different things will work at different times. In other words, she
will not be crying herself to sleep forever. Maybe she'll be sleeping
in the newly-renovated lead-free hallway in a few months.

Good luck. I know how frustrating the sleep thing can be. And I
honestly believe that although parenting strategies can exacerbate
things, kids come hardwired to be easy or challenging sleepers. If I
had been you, I'd have co-slept/night-nursed just as long for all the
same reasons.

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04; Shiloh, 4/22/07

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
. ..

Not unless we win the lottery and can pay someone to do it. We
scheduled out every weekend based on what needs to be done, and came
up with a September end date. No other rooms are 'complete' except our
bedroom.

I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here, I honestly
think that to both continue nursing and cosleeping and also sleep through
the night is a VERY hard task, something that I cannot recall a single
person I've come across having done it (that could be because if it was
easy and not a problem it doesn't get mentioned). I know plenty of people
who nursed toddlers and had them sleeping through the night in a separate
room and I also know of non nursing cosleeping though the night toddlers -
I've had one of each myself!


This is what we did. DD still sleeps with us and is now just over 2. At
around 18 months or so I was sick of her waking to feed, often 2 or 3 times
a night (and we were wanting to try for another child and my period hadn't
returned yet) , so I'd suggest she just have a cuddle first, and if she
still wanted to nurse afterwards she could. She would still nurse to sleep
at that point, and I introduced it by saying let's just have a cuddle, and
then she can nurse. Then when she would wake in the night and want to nurse
I would do the same thing - the first few nights she woke, and I didn't
nurse her straight away she cried and I told her I was just going to cuddle
her first and then she could nurse - which I did. After a few days she
accepted it and it wasn't long before she woke up, cuddled and went straight
back to sleep without nursing at all. Then when she woke up after that time
I would say - "No, you don't nurse in the middle of the night!! (Like it
was a funny thing to want) - How about a cuddle, or a sip of water?" And
she would be fine, and pretty much after that time she started sleeping
through without a problem.
HTH

"Nikki" wrote in message
...

"lu-lu" wrote in message
...

I don't know if your DD's up for a change, but I recently bought Jessica
alittle table and chair. I guess you guys have the same thing over
there -
it's one of the plastic ones that looks like mini garden furniture.
She's
a
real girlie-girl, so I found one in pink and she loves it.

My boys use the little tables as jungle gyms mainly but Ben was always mad
at his highchair. They have been at boosters at the regular table for
some time now. She's at an age to try that out if the she decides she is
anti-highchair again.

Yeah, that was the other thing I was going to suggest - Jessie has one of
these so that she can eat with us, and she loves it.

Lucy x

"cjra" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 5:03 pm, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
btw - it's not that I'm making excuses, it's just that I'm trying to
not do a bunch of different things that require substantial effort and
lifestyle change in the hope that _one_ works. Many things we have
tried, and now I'll just take it one by one and see how it goes.


???????
It sounds like great change and effort is exactly what you need to do.

cjra wrote:

On Mar 13, 6:34*pm, Rosalie B. wrote:
cjra wrote:

Our problem is lack of doors - all the doors have been removed and
sent of for stripping (lead paint removal), . So without doors,

Why does the area have to be quiet? *

Lights on, tv (sometimes), computer etc. all within a few feet of her?
Maybe your child can fall asleep with that, mine has never been able
to. All the usual 'house' noises. Frankly I don't expect anyone to be
able to sleep through all that. Perfectly silent? no, but constant
stimulation in the form of lights, talking etc, she can't handle that.

Are you putting her to bed in the living room or something? I would
expect a child to be able to sleep through noise of conversation, but
maybe music or a fan or something would mask that. My DIL does that
(for herself).

How about a crib tent? (I've never seen one, but I envision something
like one of those tings that they put over bird cages to make the
birds shut up and go to sleep. That would take care of the lights.

Mine of course didn't have the computer to deal with, but I don't
think my computer makes much noise - when dh wants to go to bed before
I do, and I'm still working on the laptop, I may mute it so that it
doesn't make ANY noise.

Once we HAD a TV in the bedroom, I would often go to sleep with it on
- actually now I refuse to have a TV that doesn't have a sleep setting
so that it goes off within x number of minutes of when I set it.
Otherwise I wake at about 2 am and it's still on. (It used to be that
the off-air tone would wake me.) It's like the sleep setting on a
clock radio (which is different from the snooze alarm).

[One of dh's and my real disagreements was that when we lived in
California, he'd have the radio set to play the Ira Blue show from SF
- this was a radio phone in-talk show. He would go to sleep. I would
get so worked up thinking of answers to say that I wouldn't sleep at
all. So he'd be snoring away and I'd turn the radio off, at which
time he'd wake up and turn it back on again, saying "I was listening
to that". Eventually I made it my routine to stay in the living room
watching the Tonight show with Johnny Carson on the TV. When that was
over and the radio had turned off, then I went to bed.]

One of the other things that my
mom told me was not to tiptoe around when the baby was asleep because
then she would wake at every noise. *Whereas when you are running the
vacuum or dishwasher or whatever, or if she had siblings playing
around, she'd get used to some noise. *Is it that quiet at the daycare
when she takes her nap? *

Yes, it's an in-home daycare and all the kids nap at the same time.

Really it is better to do this - otherwise every time you go on a trip
she won't sleep.

Oddly enough, as we've travelled with her a lot, she sleeps well on
the road.

Well that's interesting. Why do you think that is? What is different
then?