Cruisin' for a bruisin'

"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...
p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...
There are quite a few supplements on the market right
now that allegedly help people lose weight, but if they worked, docs
would
be recommending them.

Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind. Pharmaceutical products are pharmacy-dispensed and their
makers provide copious amounts of promotional material so that doctors
will dispense them. Your comment is like saying that if Volvo makes a
good car, why don't Ford dealerships sell them? Free enterprise does
not mean a "free give-away."

INteresting...quite often my docs will give me a prescritpion for
prescription meds (such as my migraine med imitrex), and reccommend OTC meds
as needed (for my migraines, a combination of imitrex and motrin is what
stops them--docs gives me script for the imitrex, and I get the motrin on
his advice without a script)


Buny

On 6 Jul 2005 20:55:04 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous.

Really? I think that you're the one who is playing the fool quite
well.

Back it up.

You're the one who made the ridiculous assertion. Suport it.

Typically Docs start with telling us to stop our bad habits: smoking,
more than 1 or 2 drinks/day, junk -food diets, unprotected sex, etc.

Most of the docs I have seen have suggested natural remedies if
appropriate to the situation but it is hard to get statistical
evidence on dos's recommendations. Perhaps you live in a different
country than me so your experience is different.

If you read med journal articles on issues like menopause management
you will see products like soy being investigated and discussed. The
importance of folate continues to be investigated and emphasized by
physicians. And so on.

Have you ever heard of prenatal vitamins?

Sorry, but I really do think you are making a fool of yourself.

_g

george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 20:55:04 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous.

Really? I think that you're the one who is playing the fool quite
well.

I'll take that as an admission that you're just full of hot air.

snip

Typically Docs start with telling us to stop our bad habits: smoking,
more than 1 or 2 drinks/day, a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=junk%20food" onmouseover="window.status='junk -food'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"junk -food/a diets, unprotected sex, etc.

First of all, learn how to read. I never said doctors don't recommend
wise lifestyle choices. I said doctors don't "typically recommend
non-prescription products." If you need to look up the word "product,"
feel free. I was obviously referring to dietary supplements. My
response was a direct rebuttal to your statement that dietary
supplements which claim to promote weight loss must not work or doctors
would recommend them. So get your head out of your ass and think
before you post.

Most of the docs I have seen have suggested natural remedies if
appropriate to the situation but it is hard to get statistical
evidence on dos's recommendations. Perhaps you live in a different
country than me so your experience is different.

What "natural remedies" have doctors recommended that you take? Are we
talking dietary supplements, or a trip to the mountains for some fresh
air.

If you read med journal articles on issues like menopause management
you will see products like soy being investigated and discussed. The
importance of folate continues to be investigated and emphasized by
physicians. And so on.

The fact that soy is being "investigated and discussed" is not the same
as a recommendation to buy dietary supplements providing soy. Our
discussion was about the propensity for mainstream doctors to recommend
a dietary supplement as opposed to write a prescription or offer a
health tip. If you claim that doctors routinely recommend dietary
supplements to their patients, I repeat -- get your head out of your
ass and take a class. Remedial reading may be helpful.


Have you ever heard of a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=prenatal%20vitamins" onmouseover="window.status='prenatal vitamins'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"prenatal vitamins/a?

Sorry, but I really do think you are making a fool of yourself.

I think you really need to consider thinking before you post. Prenatal
vitamins are frequently prescribed; the fact the patient has the option
to acquire them outside the pharmacy doesn't mean the doctor is
recommending a particular "non-prescription" dietary supplement.
PregVit, for example, is available only by prescription and is covered
by most health insurance. Most mainstream doctors make an effort to
reduce their patients' out of pocket expense and so they typically
prescribe whenever possible. Your ignorance of the financial
arrangements embedded in mainstrean healthcare is rather profound. To
comment intelligently on this topic, I suggest you familiarize yourself
with it.

Let's bring this back to the actual point of the exchange. If it's
your position that doctors would recommend dietary supplements to
promote weight loss if they worked and worked safely, why were doctors
prescribing phen-phen back in the 1990s? Didn't they know there was a
danger? If not, what makes you think doctors know the safety or
effectiveness of any given dietary supplement, which they can not
legally prescribe in the first place?

PeterB

On 8 Jul 2005 09:34:09 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 20:55:04 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous.


Typically Docs start with telling us to stop our bad habits: smoking,
more than 1 or 2 drinks/day, a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=junk%20food" onmouseover="window.status='junk -food'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"junk -food/a diets, unprotected sex, etc.

First of all, learn how to read. I never said doctors don't recommend
wise lifestyle choices. I said doctors don't "typically recommend
non-prescription products." If you need to look up the word "product,"
feel free. I was obviously referring to dietary supplements.

If you had a good diet you wouldn't need a lot of supplements.

My
response was a direct rebuttal to your statement

My statement? You're the one with the reading problem.

that dietary
supplements which claim to promote weight loss must not work or doctors
would recommend them. So get your head out of your ass and think
before you post.


Most of the docs I have seen have suggested natural remedies if
appropriate to the situation but it is hard to get statistical
evidence on dos's recommendations. Perhaps you live in a different
country than me so your experience is different.

What "natural remedies" have doctors recommended that you take? Are we
talking dietary supplements, or a trip to the mountains for some fresh
air.


It's none of your business.

If you read med journal articles on issues like menopause management
you will see products like soy being investigated and discussed. The
importance of folate continues to be investigated and emphasized by
physicians. And so on.

The fact that soy is being "investigated and discussed" is not the same
as a recommendation to buy dietary supplements providing soy. Our
discussion was about the propensity for mainstream doctors to recommend
a dietary supplement as opposed to write a prescription or offer a
health tip. If you claim that doctors routinely recommend dietary
supplements to their patients, I repeat -- get your head out of your
ass and take a class. Remedial reading may be helpful.


Silly ad hominems do not make your arguments more persuasive. Would
you care to tell me how you know what doctors tell their patients?


Have you ever heard of a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=prenatal%20vitamins" onmouseover="window.status='prenatal vitamins'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"prenatal vitamins/a?

Sorry, but I really do think you are making a fool of yourself.

I think you really need to consider thinking before you post. Prenatal
vitamins are frequently prescribed; the fact the patient has the option
to acquire them outside the pharmacy doesn't mean the doctor is
recommending a particular "non-prescription" dietary supplement.
PregVit, for example, is available only by prescription and is covered
by most health insurance. Most mainstream doctors make an effort to
reduce their patients' out of pocket expense and so they typically
prescribe whenever possible. Your ignorance of the financial
arrangements embedded in mainstrean healthcare is rather profound.

Really?

To
comment intelligently on this topic, I suggest you familiarize yourself
with it.

RooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOTFL.



Let's bring this back to the actual point of the exchange. If it's
your position that doctors would recommend dietary supplements to
promote weight loss if they worked and worked safely, why were doctors
prescribing phen-phen back in the 1990s?

Bad doctors respond to fads instead of evidence. Perhaps that's what
happened, but I don't claim to know the answer.

Didn't they know there was a
danger?

The good ones didn't risk it.

If not, what makes you think doctors know the safety or
effectiveness of any given dietary supplement, which they can not
legally prescribe in the first place?

PeterB

Doctors only know the safety of supplements that have been rigorously
tested.

_g

David Wright wrote:
In article . com,
PeterB wrote:


george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous. Back it up.

You don't get it, do you? It's the claimant, in this case you, who
gets to back up the claim. That is, YOU get to back up your claim
that "medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription
products of any kind."

There are products called "ibuprofen" and "aspirin." You may have
heard of them. They are available without prescription. Doctors
recommend them often. I've had them recommended to me personally
by doctors. I've also had them recommend things like compression,
elevation, and ice for sprains. Those are all-natural.

But do keep going. I just wonder how you manage to talk with your
foot constantly in your mouth.

PeterB's MO is that

1. Other people must provide evidence of any claim they make.

e.g. PeterB posted:'What needs to be backed up is your claim that the
benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. It has nothing to do with
roadtrips.
If you can't provide science in the form of double-blind, clinical
data, all this "little Tommy brings tears to my eyes" is just Pharma
Blogging for dollars.'

2. Peter need not provide evidence for any of his statements: "If you
want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively."

Since it is difficult if not impossible to prove a negative, this
means that PeterB can confidently state anything he likes, with no
evidence at all, and no matter how ridiculous.

And indeed, he frequently does.

But it is at least good for a laugh.

Cathy


-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"I believe The Battle of the Network Stars should be fought with guns."
-- Steve Martin

On 9 Jul 2005 19:40:23 -0700, "cathyb"
wrote:



David Wright wrote:
In article . com,
PeterB wrote:


george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous. Back it up.

You don't get it, do you? It's the claimant, in this case you, who
gets to back up the claim. That is, YOU get to back up your claim
that "medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription
products of any kind."

There are products called "ibuprofen" and "aspirin." You may have
heard of them. They are available without prescription. Doctors
recommend them often. I've had them recommended to me personally
by doctors. I've also had them recommend things like compression,
elevation, and ice for sprains. Those are all-natural.

But do keep going. I just wonder how you manage to talk with your
foot constantly in your mouth.

PeterB's MO is that

1. Other people must provide evidence of any claim they make.

e.g. PeterB posted:'What needs to be backed up is your claim that the
benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. It has nothing to do with
roadtrips.
If you can't provide science in the form of double-blind, clinical
data, all this "little Tommy brings tears to my eyes" is just Pharma
Blogging for dollars.'

2. Peter need not provide evidence for any of his statements: "If you
want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively."

Since it is difficult if not impossible to prove a negative, this
means that PeterB can confidently state anything he likes, with no
evidence at all, and no matter how ridiculous.

And indeed, he frequently does.

But it is at least good for a laugh.

Cathy

His personal attacks are especially entertaining. He is like a well
blindfolded kid stumbling around swinging at a pinata. If he actually
hits the target its because we lowered it and pointed him in the right
direction.

_g

george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 8 Jul 2005 09:34:09 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 20:55:04 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous.


Typically Docs start with telling us to stop our bad habits: smoking,
more than 1 or 2 drinks/day, a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=junk%20food" onmouseover="window.status='junk -food'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"junk -food/a diets, unprotected sex, etc.

First of all, learn how to read. I never said doctors don't recommend
wise lifestyle choices. I said doctors don't "typically recommend
non-prescription products." If you need to look up the word "product,"
feel free. I was obviously referring to dietary supplements.

If you had a good diet you wouldn't need a lot of supplements.

Straw man. This has nothing to do with whether doctors typically
prescribe natural supplements.

My
response was a direct rebuttal to your statement

My statement? You're the one with the reading problem.

Did you not say that doctors would recommend a non-prescription weight
loss product if that product worked?

that dietary
supplements which claim to promote weight loss must not work or doctors
would recommend them. So get your head out of your ass and think
before you post.


Most of the docs I have seen have suggested natural remedies if
appropriate to the situation but it is hard to get statistical
evidence on dos's recommendations. Perhaps you live in a different
country than me so your experience is different.

What "natural remedies" have doctors recommended that you take? Are we
talking dietary supplements, or a trip to the mountains for some fresh
air.


It's none of your business.

In other words, you can't back your statement up with even anecdotal
evidence.

If you read med journal articles on issues like menopause management
you will see products like soy being investigated and discussed. The
importance of folate continues to be investigated and emphasized by
physicians. And so on.

The fact that soy is being "investigated and discussed" is not the same
as a recommendation to buy dietary supplements providing soy. Our
discussion was about the propensity for mainstream doctors to recommend
a dietary supplement as opposed to write a prescription or offer a
health tip. If you claim that doctors routinely recommend dietary
supplements to their patients, I repeat -- get your head out of your
ass and take a class. Remedial reading may be helpful.


Silly ad hominems do not make your arguments more persuasive. Would
you care to tell me how you know what doctors tell their patients?

Over 3 billion prescriptions filled annually tell me doctors don't
recommend natural alternatives in their stead.



Have you ever heard of a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=prenatal%20vitamins" onmouseover="window.status='prenatal vitamins'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"prenatal vitamins/a?

Sorry, but I really do think you are making a fool of yourself.

I think you really need to consider thinking before you post. Prenatal
vitamins are frequently prescribed; the fact the patient has the option
to acquire them outside the pharmacy doesn't mean the doctor is
recommending a particular "non-prescription" dietary supplement.
PregVit, for example, is available only by prescription and is covered
by most health insurance. Most mainstream doctors make an effort to
reduce their patients' out of pocket expense and so they typically
prescribe whenever possible. Your ignorance of the financial
arrangements embedded in mainstrean healthcare is rather profound.

Really?

In other words, you have no rebuttal to my point. Why am I not
surprised?

To
comment intelligently on this topic, I suggest you familiarize yourself
with it.

RooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOTFL.

Feel better?


Let's bring this back to the actual point of the exchange. If it's
your position that doctors would recommend dietary supplements to
promote weight loss if they worked and worked safely, why were doctors
prescribing phen-phen back in the 1990s?

Bad doctors respond to fads instead of evidence.

As JAMA recently reported, there are many doctors who prescribe on the
basis of nothing more than a patient inquiry.
So "fad" and "drug of the year," (Phen Phen then, Paxil today), in
terms of marketing are pretty much interchangeable.

Perhaps that's what happened, but I don't claim to know the answer.

I'm glad you don't claim to know the answer, because I'm getting tired
of pointing it out.

Didn't they know there was a
danger?

The good ones didn't risk it.

What was the basis for their knowledge of "risk?"

If not, what makes you think doctors know the safety or
effectiveness of any given dietary supplement, which they can not
legally prescribe in the first place?

PeterB

Doctors only know the safety of supplements that have been rigorously tested.

Were Vioxx, Baycol, Rezulin, or HRT prior rigorously tested?

PeterB

David Wright wrote:
In article . com,
PeterB wrote:


george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous. Back it up.

You don't get it, do you? It's the claimant, in this case you, who
gets to back up the claim. That is, YOU get to back up your claim
that "medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription
products of any kind."

See reply below.

There are products called "ibuprofen" and "aspirin." You may have
heard of them. They are available without prescription. Doctors
recommend them often.

First, the fact these drugs are TYPICALLY dispensed in prescription
strength means your point is really in my court, not yours. But it's
really meaningless within the context of this discussion. My statement
was clearly related to the effectiveness of weight-loss dietary
supplements which fogg introduced. Just to clarify, I was referring
specifically to the broader range of dietary supplements since that was
the topic being discussed. The idea was not to distinguish between OTC
and prescription drugs but rather to point out that doctors don't
typically recommend dietary supplements as an alternative to
prescription medication.

I've had them recommended to me personally
by doctors. I've also had them recommend things like compression,
elevation, and ice for sprains. Those are all-natural.

Compression and elevation are methods of treatment, not products. Ice
can be made in your freezer, so it's technically free unless you just
want to make a purchase at the gas station. Remember, I was talking
about what doctors do typically, and typically doctors don't recommend
alternatives to prescription medication.


But do keep going. I just wonder how you manage to talk with your
foot constantly in your mouth.

I think you just need to brush up on your comprehension skills.

PeterB

On 12 Jul 2005 10:45:41 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 8 Jul 2005 09:34:09 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 20:55:04 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:



george_of_the_bush wrote:
On 6 Jul 2005 13:49:22 -0700, "PeterB" wrote:

p fogg wrote:
"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...


Medical doctors don't typically recommend non-prescription products of
any kind.

FALSE. Do you care to support that absurd claim with a smidgeon of
evidence?

If you want to challenge my statement then it's your job to refute it
persuasively. Any suggestion that mainstream doctors recommend natural
remedies routinely is ridiculous.


Typically Docs start with telling us to stop our bad habits: smoking,
more than 1 or 2 drinks/day, a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=junk%20food" onmouseover="window.status='junk -food'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"junk -food/a diets, unprotected sex, etc.

First of all, learn how to read. I never said doctors don't recommend
wise lifestyle choices. I said doctors don't "typically recommend
non-prescription products." If you need to look up the word "product,"
feel free. I was obviously referring to dietary supplements.

If you had a good diet you wouldn't need a lot of supplements.

Straw man. This has nothing to do with whether doctors typically
prescribe natural supplements.

Actually, it's a doctor's POV, simply stated.


My
response was a direct rebuttal to your statement

My statement? You're the one with the reading problem.

Did you not say that doctors would recommend a non-prescription weight
loss product if that product worked?

that dietary
supplements which claim to promote weight loss must not work or doctors
would recommend them. So get your head out of your ass and think
before you post.


Most of the docs I have seen have suggested natural remedies if
appropriate to the situation but it is hard to get statistical
evidence on dos's recommendations. Perhaps you live in a different
country than me so your experience is different.

What "natural remedies" have doctors recommended that you take? Are we
talking dietary supplements, or a trip to the mountains for some fresh
air.


It's none of your business.

In other words, you can't back your statement up with even anecdotal
evidence.

Look before you leap to conclusions. I don't chose to share my
private matters with the likes of you. On multiple occasions multiple
doctors have made recommendations to me for items that are called
"supplements".

If you read med journal articles on issues like menopause management
you will see products like soy being investigated and discussed. The
importance of folate continues to be investigated and emphasized by
physicians. And so on.

The fact that soy is being "investigated and discussed" is not the same
as a recommendation to buy dietary supplements providing soy. Our
discussion was about the propensity for mainstream doctors to recommend
a dietary supplement as opposed to write a prescription or offer a
health tip. If you claim that doctors routinely recommend dietary
supplements to their patients, I repeat -- get your head out of your
ass and take a class. Remedial reading may be helpful.


Silly ad hominems do not make your arguments more persuasive. Would
you care to tell me how you know what doctors tell their patients?

Over 3 billion prescriptions filled annually tell me doctors don't
recommend natural alternatives in their stead.

The supplement industry is booming. Your assertion is empty. Doctors
are writing a lot of prescriptions and recommending lots of
supplements the way I see it. Obviously, doctors vary in what they
prescribe and recommend.



Have you ever heard of a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=prenatal%20vitamins" onmouseover="window.status='prenatal vitamins'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"prenatal vitamins/a?

Sorry, but I really do think you are making a fool of yourself.

I think you really need to consider thinking before you post. Prenatal
vitamins are frequently prescribed; the fact the patient has the option
to acquire them outside the pharmacy doesn't mean the doctor is
recommending a particular "non-prescription" dietary supplement.
PregVit, for example, is available only by prescription and is covered
by most health insurance. Most mainstream doctors make an effort to
reduce their patients' out of pocket expense and so they typically
prescribe whenever possible. Your ignorance of the financial
arrangements embedded in mainstrean healthcare is rather profound.

Really?

In other words, you have no rebuttal to my point. Why am I not
surprised?

I have no rebutta of the technicalityl becuase I was fully aware when
I mentioned prenatal vitamins that they can be prescribed in the US.
That does nothing to change what's in the vitamins. It is the routine
recommendation by physicians of a dietary supplement which has been
placed in the prescription category. You are technically correct but
logically inconsistent. Basically PNVs are prescribed dietary
supplements.

If you want to whine about big pharma, just remember that the
supplement industry and big pharma are often one and the same.

To
comment intelligently on this topic, I suggest you familiarize yourself
with it.

RooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOTFL.

Feel better?

Yes, you made me laugh.


Let's bring this back to the actual point of the exchange. If it's
your position that doctors would recommend dietary supplements to
promote weight loss if they worked and worked safely, why were doctors
prescribing phen-phen back in the 1990s?

Bad doctors respond to fads instead of evidence.

As JAMA recently reported, there are many doctors who prescribe on the
basis of nothing more than a patient inquiry.
So "fad" and "drug of the year," (Phen Phen then, Paxil today), in
terms of marketing are pretty much interchangeable.

I support evidence-based medicine, not ad-based medicine. Big pharma
is able to buy data bases on doctors' prescriptions and target
marketing based on those databases. It's a practice that should be
illegal.

Perhaps that's what happened, but I don't claim to know the answer.

I'm glad you don't claim to know the answer, because I'm getting tired
of pointing it out.

Didn't they know there was a
danger?

The good ones didn't risk it.

What was the basis for their knowledge of "risk?"

Experience? Combinations of drugs often do not behave as a linear
combination of individual drugs. Have you ever heard of seritonin
syndrome?

If not, what makes you think doctors know the safety or
effectiveness of any given dietary supplement, which they can not
legally prescribe in the first place?

PeterB

Doctors only know the safety of supplements that have been rigorously tested.

Were Vioxx, Baycol, Rezulin, or HRT prior rigorously tested?

PeterB

I have not followed Baycol or Rezulin. The issues with Vioxx and HRT
are quite complicated, but yes, they were tested. Aspirin was used
for ages before Reyes syndrome was known.

It may well be the case that all prostaglandin (COX 2) inhibitors
have some potentially deleterious cardiac effects.

Still, high salt, high trans fatty acid and high animal fat diets can
chalk up a bigger kill than prescription meds. Such is life.

_g

PeterB wrote:
Remember, I was talking
about what doctors do typically, and typically doctors don't
recommend
alternatives to prescription medication.

That depends on the supplement. When there is one that is proved to
work for a given situation they typically do.

--
00doc.