Child & Sleep

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.

Mike Laub wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.
----------------
You're a vicious dangerous ****head. No one is ever "inconsolable".
Steve

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Mike Laub wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.
----------------
You're a vicious dangerous ****head. No one is ever "inconsolable".
Steve

You have clearly had experience with a different set of kids than I
have. There were times when one or another of my children seemed
totally inconsolable -- that is, they were crying, and nothing I did
helped them stop crying.

That didn't mean I left them in their room alone to cry -- but it DID
mean a VERY long time (hours, in some cases) of holding an inconsolable
baby.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article . com,
"Mike Laub" wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.


There are babies who seem to need to fuss a bit before they fall asleep
-- but that doesn't mean letting them "cry themselves to sleep". It
does mean paying enough attention to each baby to know what works best
for them falling asleep.

But about the LAST time I'd leave a baby alone is when they seem
inconsolable, with one caveate:

There are times when you are holding a crying baby, and your own stress
level is going up and up, when I think the baby starts feeding off YOUR
stress, and the entire situation gets too ugly for words. Under those
circumstances, and when I was the only grownup around, on one or two
occassions, I would put the baby down in their crib and take a shower
(because with the water running I couldn't hear the crying, and the hot
water helped to calm me down), and then go and pick the baby up again.

Optimal would be if I'd been able to calm myself without putting the
baby down -- but reality stuck it's ugly head into the situation, and I
did what I had to do.

But I can't imagine being able to sleep or rest while a baby was crying
inconsolably.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Mike Laub wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.
----------------
You're a vicious dangerous ****head. No one is ever "inconsolable".
Steve

You have clearly had experience with a different set of kids than I
have. There were times when one or another of my children seemed
totally inconsolable -- that is, they were crying, and nothing I did
helped them stop crying.
-------------------
That's because you refused to do what would WORK!


That didn't mean I left them in their room alone to cry -- but it DID
mean a VERY long time (hours, in some cases) of holding an inconsolable
baby.
--------------------
Abusive parents often pretend that they are consoling, when all they
are doing is refusing their child's needs, saying to them, in effect:
"We're so sorry that the **** we're doing to you upsets you!"
Steve

dragonlady wrote:

In article . com,
"Mike Laub" wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.


There are babies who seem to need to fuss a bit before they fall asleep
-- but that doesn't mean letting them "cry themselves to sleep".
-----------------
****ing liar. That's called crying it out, and it's abuse!!
I've NEVER seen a child just cry and cry if you meet their needs!
Steve

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

dragonlady wrote:

In article . com,
"Mike Laub" wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.


There are babies who seem to need to fuss a bit before they fall asleep
-- but that doesn't mean letting them "cry themselves to sleep".
-----------------
****ing liar. That's called crying it out, and it's abuse!!
I've NEVER seen a child just cry and cry if you meet their needs!
Steve

Read what I said, Steve. I said "fuss a bit" NOT cry and cry.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Mike Laub wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.
----------------
You're a vicious dangerous ****head. No one is ever "inconsolable".
Steve

You have clearly had experience with a different set of kids than I
have. There were times when one or another of my children seemed
totally inconsolable -- that is, they were crying, and nothing I did
helped them stop crying.
-------------------
That's because you refused to do what would WORK!

How lovely for you that you never cared for a baby with colic, or any
other medical condition that left them uncomfortable, or in pain, or
otherwise unconsolable.

I wasn't so fortunate.



That didn't mean I left them in their room alone to cry -- but it DID
mean a VERY long time (hours, in some cases) of holding an inconsolable
baby.
--------------------
Abusive parents often pretend that they are consoling, when all they
are doing is refusing their child's needs, saying to them, in effect:
"We're so sorry that the **** we're doing to you upsets you!"

And what, exactly, is it you think the child needed? They were fed,
dry, being held, being sung to, being rocked/walked -- once you've tried
everything, what ELSE is there to do?

I think you either don't remember, or had only limited experience with
babies if you think it's always possible to figure out what a baby needs.

(But then, you think that when we figured out that some babies were
consoled by being swaddled, swaddling them was abusive, too. So, with
you, we're damned no matter what we did with these high-need babies.)
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

dragonlady wrote:

In article . com,
"Mike Laub" wrote:

You should try not to let children (12 months old) cry themselves to
sleep. You should try and console them. But if they are inconsolable,
their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.


There are babies who seem to need to fuss a bit before they fall asleep
-- but that doesn't mean letting them "cry themselves to sleep".
-----------------
****ing liar. That's called crying it out, and it's abuse!!
I've NEVER seen a child just cry and cry if you meet their needs!
Steve

Read what I said, Steve. I said "fuss a bit" NOT cry and cry.
--------------
When you use convenient vague euphemisms, you encourage minimization
in that very fashion by abusive parebts. "Fuss a bit" to anyone else
can look just like crying!
Steve

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

their is no point in neither one of you sleeping. You should just put
them in their crib, close the door, and turn on the fan so you can't
hear them.

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you agree?

Please help me explore reasons to agree and disagree.
----------------
You're a vicious dangerous ****head. No one is ever "inconsolable".
Steve

You have clearly had experience with a different set of kids than I
have. There were times when one or another of my children seemed
totally inconsolable -- that is, they were crying, and nothing I did
helped them stop crying.
-------------------
That's because you refused to do what would WORK!

How lovely for you that you never cared for a baby with colic, or any
other medical condition that left them uncomfortable, or in pain, or
otherwise unconsolable.

I wasn't so fortunate.
--------------------
I had colic as a baby, my mother said the only way she could calm me
was to hold me. She held me. Colic is probably caused by not breast-
feeding, we knew NO ONE with colic when my adult age-group were all
having babies, because we ALL BREASTFED! My mother noted that too,
and was upset that her generation hadn't known any better! I've had
kids with earaches, and that has to be the worst. Sure, they cry a
lot, but they cry LESS and are far better off in your arms than any
other way.


That didn't mean I left them in their room alone to cry -- but it DID
mean a VERY long time (hours, in some cases) of holding an inconsolable
baby.
--------------------
Abusive parents often pretend that they are consoling, when all they
are doing is refusing their child's needs, saying to them, in effect:
"We're so sorry that the **** we're doing to you upsets you!"

And what, exactly, is it you think the child needed? They were fed,
dry, being held, being sung to, being rocked/walked -- once you've tried
everything, what ELSE is there to do?
-------------------------
Sleep right there with them. Many parents these days have this sick
TV-impression that babies are supposed to be shut into their "own
room", and stay there, come hell or whatever, and that parents are
supposed to apply cunning and dishonest devices to obtain sleep
back in THEIR room. Take them to bed with you! Families slept in
the same bed for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS! Why do you imagine
that suddenly we have "changed" our Evolved Nature in that regard???


I think you either don't remember, or had only limited experience with
babies if you think it's always possible to figure out what a baby needs.
-----------------------------
Nope, it's YOU who has forgotten and have ****ty little experience.
(How do YOU like this when done to YOU, hmm? Pretty cowardly, isn't
it? You have NO IDEA and NO INFORMATION about what you asserted!
That should make you feel stupid, it embarrasses me FOR you!)


(But then, you think that when we figured out that some babies were
consoled by being swaddled, swaddling them was abusive, too. So, with
you, we're damned no matter what we did with these high-need babies.)
------------------------------
Nope. If you quit trying to fob them off on some "method" or another,
instead of staying with them and comforting them as I told you to, I
could not then condemn you!!
Steve