How to stop the night wakings?

cjra wrote:

I've tried doing this a lot - just rocking her or cuddling rather than
nursing. It usually calms her and that's when I'm sure she's not
waking for hunger. Other times she goes straight for the boobs and
nothing will distract her. Problem has been though that though it
calms her, it doesn't put her to sleep.

It can be multiple reasons for waking at night--sometimes
habitual, sometimes hunger, sometimes something else, sometimes
two or more of the above. I know you can't force feed during the
day, but sometimes you can gently encourage more food by feeding
more often. What's the schedule at daycare? Can they introduce
more food there?
Also, for the comforting at night, you may not be able
to go as far as rocking and cuddling. You may need to keep her
in the crib and limit it to patting her back and such. Getting
her up may be enough to reorient her to playtime/cuddle time
rather than to sleep time.

Best wishes,
Ericka

cjra wrote:
On Mar 12, 10:12 pm, "Nikki" wrote:

We start bedtime at 7pm. If it's bath night that adds in another 15
minutes or so. This may be another issue, but I'm not sure as it's not
consistent. bath time = play time for her. She goes nuts in the bath,
it's not really relaxing. However it doesn't seem to have an effect
either way on the falling to sleep.

You might try moving bath time to another time, then. That
may be tricky with your schedules, but maybe there's another time
that would suit.

Generally we're in bed by 7:30 almost every night, and sometimes
she'll fall to sleep in 10 minutes (~6 songs on the night time CD) and
sometimes it'll take an hour.

See, that seems a bit wonky to me. If she's well into
a routine, I just wouldn't expect to see that much variation in
how long it takes her to get to sleep. I'm not sure if that's
being overtired, being overstimulated, having you nearby, or
what.

SHe's good with her naps at daycare 'cause all the other kids sleep.
One the weekends it's another story, kind of hit or miss.

Having two days a week where her daytime sleep is
messed up can keep the chaos alive with her nighttime sleep
during the week.

I really don't like the concept of CIO. The couple of times I've let
her cry have been out of sheer desperation. It's hard for me to do it
in a planned manner, although I'm getting there. I'd prefer to find
something gentler. I really don't care about everyone else telling me
she should be STTN by now. Until recently I was tolerating it ok, but
it's really taking its toll on both DH and myself and I think her too.

I am also not a big fan of CIO, but I do also believe there
are some personalities that will take you for a ride if you are not
willing to be firm. With those kids, it is not kind to be wishy
washy on boundaries, because it puts them on a roller coaster where
nothing is to be depended upon. It also makes life difficult for
you. Your daughter is not an infant anymore, so you are not dealing
with infant issues and needs, so you should not frame them that way
to yourself.
I think you have to make some distinctions here. If you
are nearby and she is screaming at night, one of two things is
most likely happening (assuming she's not sick): she's hungry
or she just wants to play with you. The ultimate solution to
the former is more food during the day. You can work that issue
on the positive side (trying to get more in during the day), the
negative side (refusing to further the habit of eating at night
so she'll be hungrier during the day), or both. If she wants play
time (whether that's active play time or cuddle time), you cannot
afford to feed that habit if you want any of you to get a good
night's sleep. Some kids are very flexible, but it sounds like
your daughter is much more determined than that, so if you give
in once, that's good for a month's worth of effort to break the
habit again.

You've also got the added wrinkle of wanting to change
the habit of having her sleep with you. That will also require
a change process.

So, you've got three habits to change. Often it's easier
to change a habit by substituting something else for it, rather
than just eliminating it. I'd pick one habit at a time to change
rather than trying to do them all at once. If I felt I needed to
do it all at once, I'd do something radical like go on vacation
somewhere, have a day or two where you *totally* mess up the
schedule, and then take several more days to settle into the
schedule you want, and then try to transition the new schedule
home. That can be tough to arrange, though.

To change the co-sleeping, you may have to make a big
hairy deal out of it. Can you move the crib, change the bedding,
change something about your bed, and then consistently start using
the crib? Develop some new ritual.

To change the night eating, you'll have to decide whether
to work it from the day side, the night side, or both and then be
consistent about it. Enlist help from daycare if you're working
the day side and see if they can get more food into her. If it
takes offering favorite foods to do that, go with it. A little
while of a less than ideal diet isn't going to kill her, though
you'll have some recovering to do on that front afterwards.

To change the play time, I think you're only option is
to completely refuse to give in unless she's sick or something.
If she's in the crib, you can rub or pat her back or something,
but don't pick her up or take her out of the crib. She will
likely pitch a huge fit over this, but the thing to keep in
mind is that you're right there when she's doing it. She's not
hungry (either deal with the food issue before attempting to
deal with the play issue, or feed her before trying to resettle
her), she's not in pain or anything like that, so this is just
the two of you having a disagreement over appropriate nighttime
activities. She can pitch a tantrum over that. If you're there
patting her back or whatever, she's clearly not scared or anything
like that. This is a simple clashing of wills. Sounds like you've
been blessed with one of those kids who are very strong willed.
That has its benefits, but you can't afford to be a pushover.
You can be judicious about the things you take a stand on, but
you can't fold on the things that are important or you do her
a terrific disservice. It is very hard on strong-willed children
to have weak willed parents. It forces them to shoulder the
responsibility for making decisions too early because they know
they can browbeat you into caving. It makes the world a much
scarier place because they don't know that they can count on you
to keep them safe.
Now, the tricky bit with this is that especially with
some strong-willed children, having you standing there patting her
on the back may actually prolong the crying because it keeps giving
her hope that you'll cave. That's something you just have to decide
for yourself. I know it's awful to walk away with them crying,
but it's also awful to stand there with them crying. And, of
course, it's awful to continue a habit that's detrimental to
both of you. No easy answers. Personally, I'd likely tackle this
issue last and hope tackling the others magically solves it ;-)
The other thing that may be a factor is that she might
be trying to get her Mommy time at night since you're at work
during the day. That can make it hard to make a commitment to
insisting on no play/cuddle time at night because of all the
feelings involved with that. However, if you think that's part
of the issue, then maybe you need to look at ways to address it.
Could you jiggle schedules in such a way as to allow a little
extra Mommy time somewhere else? Could you stop by for lunch at
daycare? Could you do something different in the mornings? Could
you make some of the evening Mommy time more salient somehow?

I have some very stubborn kids, but they pretty much
slept in their cribs (which I think was lucky in hindsight,
given what I know of them now). We did have the nighttime
hunger issue until around 15 months, and mostly worked it from
the day side. When I tried to work it from the night side at
around 12 months with #1, it was an unmitigated disaster, but
it did convince me that it really was hunger. We scheduled the
night feeding at a more convenient time (woke him right before
I went to bed with occasional tests to see if he was ready to
go without) and the wakings to eat went away on their own around
15 months. With #3 we would have occasional nights where she
wanted to get up and play. For her, I found that it was better
for me to leave her and come back periodically to resettle than
to stay; however, these were infrequent and she was starting from
a base of sleeping in her crib and sleeping through the night most
nights, so the tantrums didn't go on as long and it didn't usually
take more than one night to get back on track.

Best wishes,
Ericka

cjra wrote:
[snip]
Our consistent sleep place is our bed, and that's what I'd like to
change to the crib, but the crib is in our room. SO it's like teasing
her - we're there but she can't lay on top of us.
[snip]
Keep child in crib when he wakes, do not remove to my bed

Well, since she's always co-slept, the whole transition to crib will
be an issue.

[snip]

Personally I wouldn't bother with a crib any more, I'd get her her own
bed. If you are worried she'd fall out, you could either put cushions
next to it, or have a very low one, possiby just a matress on the floor.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

On Mar 13, 7:00 am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
The nursing to sleep is an issue. How does one stop this? When I don't
nurse her to sleep, she just cries and cries. That said, when I'm not
here, DH is able to get her to sleep. But if she knows I'm in the
house, she won't stop til she has me.

You may need to absent yourself at every bedtime for
a while.

I think DH is getting softer though, so he's not helping! He used to
be more consistent with her, but lack of sleep is weaing him down too.

Our consistent sleep place is our bed, and that's what I'd like to
change to the crib, but the crib is in our room. SO it's like teasing
her - we're there but she can't lay on top of us.

Any chance of expediting completion of her room?

Not unless we win the lottery and can pay someone to do it. We
scheduled out every weekend based on what needs to be done, and came
up with a September end date. No other rooms are 'complete' except our
bedroom.

Just for the record, things we need to do:
4 windows:
1. Remove lead paint from casing, strip windows (stripping to be done
off-site)
2. Sand, paint casing
(1&2 have to be done when she's out of the house)
3. re-glaze 4 windows (each double hung) and paint
4. frames: strip (done off-site), sand and stain, then rehang
4. Rehang with weights

2 doors, which include transom windows
1. strip, sand, paint
2. rehang

walls:
tape and float, sand, paint

floor:
complete stripping of linoleum (most is off, but there's a
particularly stubborn part)
lay new flooring

Having done one room almost completely, and about 90% of the kitchen,
we have a good idea of how long each task takes.

Clisby wrote:

5) Good luck. I know this is really hard. Oh - one more thing. Mine wake
up most often when the heater kicks on. I moved the crib so it wasn't
blowing down on them and that seemed to help. Maybe there is something
happening at 4am that is waking her?

That's worth checking. When my son was about a year old, he'd go to bed
at 7:30 p.m. and sleep until 3 or 4 a.m. Suddenly, he started waking
up, like clockwork, at 10 p.m. We had recently moved him to a room down
the hall - It took me about a week to realize my across-the-street
neighbor let his dogs out for their final run about 10, and the barking
was waking Joseph up (his new room was on the front of the house instead
of the back, so the dogs were a lot closer). You might wonder why it
took me a week to figure this out, but I didn't really 'hear' normal
city noises - it was all just background noise to me.

With dd#3, it was the man next door (row house where we shared side
walls) who came home from the second shift and put his car in the
garage. The garages were in the basement and had overhead doors, and
when the garage doors went up and down, you could hear them through
the walls. I formed the habit of bringing her back to bed with me
when that happened because I didn't want her crying to wake up the
neighbors (my own children would sleep through). She was 8-14 months
at the time.

I've been following this along, but don't really have much advice
because although I bf all four of mine, I almost never co-slept (with
the exception above) and I was a SAHM.

My mom advised me never to have the children sleep in the room with me
because I would not get any sleep. She said that often if the
children woke up, they'd go back to sleep if nobody went in and it was
dark etc. She said to let them fuss for a couple of minutes first.
Maybe as a result of that, mine slept through the night relatively
early - well before a year.

Thinking back on what people have said --

I agree with Erika and Sue - your child has got your number and she is
NOT going to go to her crib and sleep through the night without a
determined and protracted struggle to keep things the way she wants
them.

If you or she is sick, then it is going to set the program back a
little bit, but you don't have to give up on it because you feel sorry
for her.

Erika wrote

I do also believe there are some personalities that will take you for a ride if you are not willing to be firm....
Your daughter is not an infant anymore, so you are not dealing with infant issues and needs, so you should not frame them that way to yourself.

I think you have to make some distinctions here. If you are nearby and she is screaming at night, one of two things is most likely happening (assuming she's not sick): she's hungry or she just wants to play with you....

If she wants play time (whether that's active play time or cuddle time), you cannot afford to feed that habit if you want any of you to get a good night's sleep. Some kids are very flexible, but it sounds like your daughter is much more determined than that, so if you give in once, that's good for a month's worth of effort to break the habit again.

So - I think you are going to have to bite the bullet. Either have
her sleep with you and let your dh get his sleep in another room (I
don't remember whether this has been mentioned and rejected as a
solution), or just put her firmly in the crib and let her CIO.

I also think the bath time needs to be at a different time in the day.
If I didn't get home until 6, I'd feed her (and maybe feed her in the
car before you get home or stop somewhere to feed her), and put her
straight to bed before you and your dh eat. If everyone went to bed
earlier, then maybe you could get up earlier and do the bath then.

On Mar 13, 11:48 am, Rosalie B. wrote:


I've been following this along, but don't really have much advice
because although I bf all four of mine, I almost never co-slept (with
the exception above) and I was a SAHM.

My mom advised me never to have the children sleep in the room with me
because I would not get any sleep. She said that often if the
children woke up, they'd go back to sleep if nobody went in and it was
dark etc. She said to let them fuss for a couple of minutes first.
Maybe as a result of that, mine slept through the night relatively
early - well before a year.

See, co-sleeping was a life saver the first year. She always fell back
to sleep right away and I slept fine. I'm not sure if she would have
slept better in a crib or not. I never slept well as a child even
though my mom had the same advice as yours. Co-sleeping was the only
way I could deal with the night feedings and still make it to work the
next day. She also reverse cycled as soon as I went back to work.

It was around 14 months or so that it wasn't working as well.


Thinking back on what people have said --

I agree with Erika and Sue - your child has got your number and she is
NOT going to go to her crib and sleep through the night without a
determined and protracted struggle to keep things the way she wants
them.

Yeah, I'm sure of that. I'm much more of a softy than I expected to
be.

So - I think you are going to have to bite the bullet. Either have
her sleep with you and let your dh get his sleep in another room (I
don't remember whether this has been mentioned and rejected as a
solution), or just put her firmly in the crib and let her CIO.

The problem here is DH. he claims he doesn't sleep well in the other
bed (it hurts his back) and every time I bring it up (like daily) he
says No, he'll manage (but he has a hard time with it...). Until he
took over night duty, he always slept through her wakings just fine.
He never knew how many times she woke up. Last night I actually slept
through for a change, and I thought she didn't wake at all...hah. He
told me no, she woke up just past midnight, and another 2 times at
least after that. She had been put to sleep in the crib, and at one
waking he left her to fall back to sleep, but the next one he went to
her and she handed him her pillow and blanket and he couldn't resist
so brought her to bed.

I also think the bath time needs to be at a different time in the day.
If I didn't get home until 6, I'd feed her (and maybe feed her in the
car before you get home or stop somewhere to feed her), and put her
straight to bed before you and your dh eat. If everyone went to bed
earlier, then maybe you could get up earlier and do the bath then.

This isn't a solution for us. It's only 15 mins or so commute home
from daycare, not worth stopping and as it is she refuses to eat
anyway more than 1/2 the time. I've noticed ont he few nights she's
awake later, she's hungry later. I've also tried putting her straight
to bed when we get home and it doesn't fly. She has no desire to sleep
at that time. Last night we didn't have a meltdown for a change.
I'm actually wondering if she's eating too much at daycare. I send her
b'fast, snack and lunch, and the babysitter feeds her whatever the
other kids are eating. I've considered not sending anything and let
her eat only what she has there, but I supply more 'healthy' stuff so
I want her to at least have that stuff first. So I think at 5-6pm
she's not that hungry, but it kicks in later.

DH and I already gets up at 5am (he goes tobed at 9pm) and I get up by
6am, I really don't *want* to push that any earlier, frankly.

On Mar 13, 3:48 am, "lu-lu" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

4. If she's waking at a specific time each night, there is a technique
you can use called the wake-to-sleep technique or scheduled awakening.
Basically, you set your alarm, go into your room between 15 and 60
minutes before the time when you expect her to wake (so, between 3 and
3.45 a.m), wake her partway up, and settle her again. This can readjust
the sleep cycle and thus eliminate the habitual waking. Tracy Hogg
gives the most complete description of this that I've got in 'The Baby
Whisperer Solves All Your Problems', and advises that if the child is
still waking up at the usual time after three nights of trying this, you
might as well drop it, but if they seem to be stopping their usual
waking then continue with the scheduled awakening for six nights before
stopping. This has been found to be as effective as CIO techniques, but
it's a pain to implement.

Well, she's in 'our' room - although I've been sleeping in another
room lately. She's in bed with DH. I still wake up automatically about
3:45 knowing she'll wake up (I do this even when I'm away, it's so
annoying!). I guess i'd be afraid to try this...the idea is to wake
her a bit before she really wakes up?

Hi Cjra

I did this with Jessica. When she was 6 weeks, she used to go to sleep at
9pm, sleep til midnight, nurse and then sleep until 6am. I started going im
at about 23.50 and nursing her without waking her properly. That eliminated
the need for her to wake fully (as with you waking while you're away, it'll
have become part of her routine too) and she very quickly learnt to sleep
through. I don't know how it will work for an older child, as Jessie was
still at the newborn 'I can sleep and eat at the same time' stage, but I
think it's worth trying. I think part of it is the surprise at being woken
when they're sleeping peacefully and the gratitude of being allowed back to
sleep!

Aha! You mean the "Dream Feed"? Yes, I used to do that about 10pm in
the first 4 months or so. Then she started waking up like clockwork at
10pm and I was convinced it was because I got her used to eating at
that time and swore never to do that again. I finally broke her of
that habit. I honestly am not willing to try that one again at this
age, I fear she'll get so used to it she'll be hungry at that hour. I
don't think it's hunger waking her but habit.

In regards to the 6pm meltdowns, it kinda sounds like Jessica when it all
gets too much for her. You might find she's tired *and* hungry, and
therefore unhappy too. If dinner's going to be later than madam would like,
I give her something little in the car like a roll or some fruit. It
occupies her while she's waiting, takes the edge off her hunger and gives
her a little energy boost.

I think the problem is that she's not hungry. For a long time DH would
give her a snack in the car on the way home, then she wouldn't eat at
all. As it is it seems 6pm is sometimes too early for her to eat (but
on the odd nights she's up much later, she's all happy to eat at 8pm -
I think she's a European baby with these late dinners ;-)).

She gets offered food now as soon as we walk in the door and she's not
interested.

How much does she sleep duing the day? I tried cutting Jessie's naps out in
the day, but she just wasn't ready for that, and if she doesn't sleep at
all, she's pretty evil by 7pm. I try to get her to nap for about an hour
after lunch and then gently wake her up. If she's desperate to stay asleep,
I let her have an another half an hour or so. Her bed time hasn't changed
since she was born, and she's always grateful to go to bed when we take her,
and impatient if the milk/pyjamas etc aren't ready!

At daycare she sleeps ~1.5 hours. She stopped a morning nap at about 9
months as she wouldn't sleep when the older kids were up. I've told
the babysitter to let her sleep as long as she needs, but she's
usually ready to get up when the other kids do.


Heh... It looks like we just sleep and eat here!! She does munch a lot
during the day, but the snacks are little, and I normally keep packets of
raisins in my handbag so that she can have them while we're out. If she's
hungry, her energy levels drop, and we get (extra) tantrums All I need to
do now is to get her to stop screaming when I put reins on her!

There are some weekends it seems that's all we *try* to do and not
succeed. She began throwing tantrums recently with the high chair,
refusing to sit in it (I think the time out at daycare was in a high
chair and since then, at least at home, she sees it as a torture
chamber...). However we've let her scream and now she only resists for
a minute, down from 30 minutes.

On Mar 12, 11:45 pm, "Nikki" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message

...

I really don't like the concept of CIO. The couple of times I've let
her cry have been out of sheer desperation. It's hard for me to do it
in a planned manner, although I'm getting there. I'd prefer to find
something gentler. I really don't care about everyone else telling me
she should be STTN by now. Until recently I was tolerating it ok, but
it's really taking its toll on both DH and myself and I think her too.

I understand. Two more thoughts.....

I would really not worry about her needing food at night. She might eat a
lot when nursed but unless she has a weight gain issue she will be fine.

She was off the bottom of the charts in weight until recently, so I
was worried. Although her doc wasn't particularly concerned. She had
been 50% through one year so it made me nervous. In the last month
she's gained and is back on the charts, so I'm less concerned now.

Kids this age will have days when they eat hardly anything. It just works
that way. She'll eat a big breakfast if she's hungry. I also give my boys
smoothies before bed. I make them with yogurt, whole milk, banana, berries.
It is quite filling I think.

Yeah, she LOVES yoghurt so we've been having those before bed, I also
mix with cereal. I was hoping it was filling, but she's still waking
so that's why I think it's not always hunger but habit now.

They have sort of quit eating them of their
own accord but that has only been recently. Oh - if the bed is low to the
ground I wouldn't be overly worried about her on that either. Each of my
big kids only fell off a bed once.

Maybe we'll take the arms off the crib and try that.

I have to be honest and say I don't see a way to get a 95% co-sleeping
toddler that night nurses on occasion to move to a crib on her own without
some serious crying. I'd either bite the bullet and let the crying commence
and stick with it for 5-7 days before throwing in the towel or figure out a
way to make co-sleeping work better for all.

I was hoping to try other options first. Tonight I'm going to
rearrange furniture and put the crib next to the bed and see if I can
get her back to sleep without getting her out of it.

You might consider taking a hard line at the night weaning while going back
to all sleeping together again. There will probably be crying involved but
IME it is different to have her crying next to you because she is mad you've
changed the plan then it is crying totally confused in a crib. It will also
probably be much less intense. You can refuse to nurse and say - 'We only
nurse when the sun is shining' or 'only in our rocking chair' and then just
lay there and let her work through it.

Well, to be honest she doesn't nurse every night. For a long time she
wasn't at all, just before bed then about 6-7am when she woke up.
Since that stopped working we've not been consistent. I try to see
what kind of cry it is - if it's just 'i'm awake and mad' cry I've not
nursed her, but then there are other "I'm so desperate/sick/hungry'
cry and I have... DH wasn't entirely sticking with the program though.
When I was unavailable a few times he started giving her milk during
those wake ups because it put her back to sleep. I've convinced him
now to stop that.

Last night for example I didn't nurse her at all, but she did wake up
a number of times.

If you don't do anything more then
say a few gentle words and lay your hand on her back to comfort her I think
she'll quit the midnight party behavior and go back to sleep in a fairly
timely way, without many antics. It was easy for me to lay there and ignore
because I was so flipp'n tired, lol. After the initial shock even though
he woke a couple times a night asking to nurse it was just a blip - didn't
really mess with my sleep much because I'd just say no and he'd go back to
sleep. My issue was that they would not sleep without me in the bed with
them.

I hear ya loud and clear. She "needs" to be touching someone. When
it's just DH, she's almost on top of him - and she's been like that
since she came home from NICU at 3 weeks. We couldn't even touch her
the first week of her life, and didn't hold her til she was 10 days
old, so in those first months we held her as much as she needed us
too, figuring she'd grow out of it as time passed. She hasn't. I've
tried giving her stuffed animals or a blanket to hold onto and she
knows the difference. She wants a warm body!

I also learned that I had to promise myself to stick with something for x
amount of time - like I'd suggest at least two weeks for the above scenario.
Changes happen fast for some kids but 3 of mine were a little more stubborn
and needed much longer to accept a new plan.

I think that's what we need to do, and I need to get DH on the same
page. Devise a plan and a timeline and stick to it, then re-evaluate
when the time's up. I think we've gotten so desperate that we do just
whatever we can to get through the night now, which isn't a solution.

cjra wrote:
On Mar 13, 11:48 am, Rosalie B. wrote:

I've been following this along, but don't really have much advice
because although I bf all four of mine, I almost never co-slept (with
the exception above) and I was a SAHM.

My mom advised me never to have the children sleep in the room with me
because I would not get any sleep. She said that often if the
children woke up, they'd go back to sleep if nobody went in and it was
dark etc. She said to let them fuss for a couple of minutes first.
Maybe as a result of that, mine slept through the night relatively
early - well before a year.

See, co-sleeping was a life saver the first year. She always fell back
to sleep right away and I slept fine. I'm not sure if she would have
slept better in a crib or not. I never slept well as a child even
though my mom had the same advice as yours. Co-sleeping was the only
way I could deal with the night feedings and still make it to work the
next day. She also reverse cycled as soon as I went back to work.

It was around 14 months or so that it wasn't working as well.

Thinking back on what people have said --

I agree with Erika and Sue - your child has got your number and she is
NOT going to go to her crib and sleep through the night without a
determined and protracted struggle to keep things the way she wants
them.

Yeah, I'm sure of that. I'm much more of a softy than I expected to
be.

So - I think you are going to have to bite the bullet. Either have
her sleep with you and let your dh get his sleep in another room (I
don't remember whether this has been mentioned and rejected as a
solution), or just put her firmly in the crib and let her CIO.

The problem here is DH. he claims he doesn't sleep well in the other
bed (it hurts his back) and every time I bring it up (like daily) he

How about switching the beds? So he's in the bed that he likes but in
another room.

says No, he'll manage (but he has a hard time with it...). Until he
took over night duty, he always slept through her wakings just fine.
He never knew how many times she woke up. Last night I actually slept
through for a change, and I thought she didn't wake at all...hah. He
told me no, she woke up just past midnight, and another 2 times at
least after that. She had been put to sleep in the crib, and at one
waking he left her to fall back to sleep, but the next one he went to
her and she handed him her pillow and blanket and he couldn't resist
so brought her to bed.

I also think the bath time needs to be at a different time in the day.
If I didn't get home until 6, I'd feed her (and maybe feed her in the
car before you get home or stop somewhere to feed her), and put her
straight to bed before you and your dh eat. If everyone went to bed
earlier, then maybe you could get up earlier and do the bath then.

This isn't a solution for us. It's only 15 mins or so commute home
from daycare, not worth stopping and as it is she refuses to eat
anyway more than 1/2 the time. I've noticed ont he few nights she's
awake later, she's hungry later. I've also tried putting her straight
to bed when we get home and it doesn't fly. She has no desire to sleep
at that time. Last night we didn't have a meltdown for a change.
I'm actually wondering if she's eating too much at daycare. I send her
b'fast, snack and lunch, and the babysitter feeds her whatever the
other kids are eating. I've considered not sending anything and let
her eat only what she has there, but I supply more 'healthy' stuff so
I want her to at least have that stuff first. So I think at 5-6pm
she's not that hungry, but it kicks in later.

OK - then offer her food when you get home and if she doesn't want to
eat, give her the bath then, and eat afterwards. Maybe a later
bedtime will be the thing. Experiment.

Although I found that counter-intuitively- if I put dd#2 to bed later
than normal, that she woke up earlier than normal. So if she went
down at her normal bedtime at 7, she'd sleep through until 7 the next
morning. (This was when she was a baby.) But if she didn't get to
bed until 8 pm, she'd be up at 6 am or earlier.

I also used to not go in right away in the morning. I'd hear her in
there playing in her crib for a bit before everyone had to be up.

DH and I already gets up at 5am (he goes tobed at 9pm) and I get up by
6am, I really don't *want* to push that any earlier, frankly.

On Mar 13, 6:36 am, "Sue" wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
Apart from the fact I'd like my bed back, I'd like to get her to
sleep! We do put her in a crib which is in our room, but to do that we
have to let her cry. Usually that only takes a few minutes, but it's
not something I'd like to do. Is that going to be our last resort now
for the 4am wakeup?

In my opinion, you are waffling on what you want to do and confusing her by
sometimes having her in the crib and sometimes in the bed with you. Pick one
and stick to it and really stick to it and be consistent.

Yeah, I think you are right there. Now we have to decide which option
to try first. I think first up is putting the crib next to the bed and
just touching her but not picking her up. We'll try that for a week
and see where we are then.


If there is one
thing I have learned about parenting, is that you have to be consistent with
whatever you decide to do. I have read it takes 21 days to change or break a
habit, so you might want to take that in consideration. Also, you may have
to have your husband handle all the night wakings and putting her to bed
until she gets used to sleeping through the night

He has been for the most part for many months now (except when he was
out of town), but I still wake up.

(which honestly, I do
think she should be able to do this by now. I think it is a habit and
because you are waffling, she is picking up on that). You have gotten some
good advice and its seems that anything anyone is suggesting, you are coming
up with excuses for why it won't work, house isn't set up right, she doesn't
have a room, etc.

I was waiting for someone to say that ;-)
Honestly, I didn't write every single thing we'd already tried or
considered because that would be a ridiculously long post. Perhaps I
should have.

Put her crib in another room and be done with it.

Simply put, we do NOT have another room to put her in at this time.
The room I sleep in is in the middle of the house with no doors, so
can not be closed off. We are working on a room for her, but it'll be
some months before it's done (see my response to Erika).

I think
she needs to go to bed earlier because it sounds like she is getting
overtired and by that time, you won't be able to settle her. Just my humble
opinion, take it for what its worth.

Problem isn't so much getting her to sleep, although some nights
that's problematic, most nights she falls to sleep ok. It's the waking
after midnight. I do think she's not getting enough sleep overall, but
that's because she's taking 'naps' at night.

One problem, and I've addressed this with DH, is that sometimes he
gets her excited at night claiming it'll wear her out. I think I've
finally convinced him it's the opposite - esp as he's the one who
suffers most. I do think the bath is part of the problem too, as she
sees that as play time and gets very excited, so instead of its
calming effect it's the opposite. It had been part of our bedtime
routine but clearly is not working. I may try to move that to right
when we get home before dinner (although if she makes a huge mess at
dinner, it's easier to clean her in the bath) and see if that helps. I
think she does need some more wind down time after dinner tho.