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Paddle by proxy



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 30th 05, 06:26 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy

The real problem with paddling in American schools isn't so much the
paddling as who does it. Teachers in America no longer come from the
family next door. Administrators are even more remote.

Even in states that permit paddling, parents know about as much about
designated paddlers in their child's school as they do about the
Wal-Mart employee who sells their kid a CD. Often, there is about the
same level of trust when it comes to paddling their kid.

Almost all certified teachers still in the classroom today have been
indoctrinated in the virtues of no-spank. It is a rite of passage, a
quasi-religious catechism to be recited as if one is an eternal
brainwashed neophyte not to be trusted with any other thoughts. The
bright ones figure out that no-spank is a crock!

Despite the impersonal nature of American public education, some good
teachers are able to build a rapport with parents. Not surprisingly,
many are both experienced teachers with solid educational credentials
as well as functional parents. As gifted communicators, they are
equally at ease talking to parents and students as they are to
administrators and other teachers.

One disciplinary strategy employed by experienced parent-teachers is
paddle by proxy. In addition to phone calls and other contacts, these
teachers will sometimes have the classroom miscreant participate in a
traditional parent-teacher conference.

Truly erudite teachers get the kid to explain the chronic and
disruptive behavior problem to the parent during the conference. Even
the most reluctant parent realized at that point it is unlikely that
the teacher is making things up or picking on her poor innocent child.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher explains the constraints placed
on her by the school board as well as the limitations of the methods
that she is permitted to use in the timeframe in which she has to use
them during the school day. While students are quite aware of the
various dead ends in public school discipline, parents are frequently
woefully ignorant.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher shifts gears. She stops
talking like a know-it-all and starts talking like a parent. Sometimes
directly, at other times circuitously, the teacher nudges the parent
toward the idea of paddling the kid.

Surprisingly, after some initial shock, the idea of a spanking is not
always to which the kid objects once the parent and teacher come to an
agreement. For some children it may be the first time in their lives
that 2 adults agreed on anything concerning them!

Although there is no set formula for these things, by the time the
teacher finishes, all participants in the conference have reached an
understanding on the state of affairs.

One retired teacher and her family run a website that teaches parents
both how to spank and how to defend themselves against the
feminist-dominated child welfare Schutzstaffel.

Another former teacher told about teaching a type of spanking known as
*layer cake* to parents of elementary age students. Layer cake is a
series of mini-spankings separated by the parent reasoning with the
child.

A third teacher went public. She told a reporter during an interview
that she had discovered that most of her school's troublemakers were
kids who were not spanked. This teacher recommended parents spank kids
when they misbehave at school.

Another elementary school teacher admitted that, despite her childhood
education training and spending a small fortune on counselors, she
finally solved her daughters' behavioral challenges by explicitly
following the directions printed on a souvenir paddle she bought on a
lark while vacationing. Although peers at first thought she had lost
her mind, the teacher recommended that other parents follow her
example!

These teachers represent a quiet rebellion of experienced teachers,
many of whom are parents, that is undermining noisy no-spank rhetoric
that is often delivered by childless idealists or those still haunted
by miserable childhood memories. Often they are lead teachers and
mentor teachers on whom schools depend for organizational memory and
internal stability.

Given the current state of affairs in the classroom, especially given
the high rate of turnover among new teachers unprepared to survive the
disaster of the public school classroom and the desperate need for
competent classroom management, paddle by proxy may be the new trend in
school discipline.

  #2  
Old November 30th 05, 09:16 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy

Opinions wrote:
The real problem with paddling in American schools isn't so much the
paddling as who does it. Teachers in America no longer come from the
family next door. Administrators are even more remote.


Just how far back do you wish to go? When we built the first city with a
school in it, teachers no longer came from the family next door.

You seem to be advocating for a return to the one room schoolhouse, from
Little House on The Prairie.

Even in states that permit paddling, parents know about as much about
designated paddlers in their child's school as they do about the
Wal-Mart employee who sells their kid a CD. Often, there is about the
same level of trust when it comes to paddling their kid.


I won't tell you how long ago I went to grade school, but I assure you
it was a very long time ago, and in a rural area. My parents, very
involved at that, never knew anyone outside the schoolhouse who worked
in it.

Almost all certified teachers still in the classroom today have been
indoctrinated in the virtues of no-spank.


Absolutely. I believe it's even discussed quite a bit in teacher college
instruction.

It is a rite of passage, a
quasi-religious catechism to be recited as if one is an eternal
brainwashed neophyte not to be trusted with any other thoughts. The
bright ones figure out that no-spank is a crock!


Quite the opposite is true. Those are the compulsives, themselves raised
in the abusive child hating atmosphere of such families and more rarely
now, such schools.

Despite the impersonal nature of American public education, some good
teachers are able to build a rapport with parents. Not surprisingly,
many are both experienced teachers with solid educational credentials
as well as functional parents. As gifted communicators, they are
equally at ease talking to parents and students as they are to
administrators and other teachers.


And this equates to them being spanking and paddling advocates how again?

One disciplinary strategy employed by experienced parent-teachers is
paddle by proxy. In addition to phone calls and other contacts, these
teachers will sometimes have the classroom miscreant participate in a
traditional parent-teacher conference.


Please provide some proofs for this sad claim. I'm sure it exists in
some places, but it is not proven to be an effective teaching method.

Truly erudite teachers get the kid to explain the chronic and
disruptive behavior problem to the parent during the conference. Even
the most reluctant parent realized at that point it is unlikely that
the teacher is making things up or picking on her poor innocent child.


And there is a 90% chance that this child is already much experienced in
being spanked at home, and the teacher is trying to educate the parent
(since it's cause for failing in school and behavior problems disrupting
his classroom) to other ways to parent the child for better behavior.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher explains the constraints placed
on her by the school board as well as the limitations of the methods
that she is permitted to use in the timeframe in which she has to use
them during the school day. While students are quite aware of the
various dead ends in public school discipline, parents are frequently
woefully ignorant.


No they aren't. Not if they read the student manual all schools send
home with the child in the first day or so. I believe, in fact, they are
more often mailed these days.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher shifts gears. She stops
talking like a know-it-all and starts talking like a parent. Sometimes
directly, at other times circuitously, the teacher nudges the parent
toward the idea of paddling the kid.


You mean the rare teacher attempts to circumvent his own education and
the experience that he has from the classroom where non-punitive non
painful and humiliating methods work?

You do understand that bad classroom behavior is a problem in paddling
states, and where it is culturally more acceptable and frequent to spank
children, no?

Where it isn't done as much, in fact, the teacher finds that the very
children they have the most problems with ARE SPANKED AT HOME.

The unspanked consistently misbehaving child is an extreme rarity.

Given that it would be only about 10% of any large body of children, and
even less in communities where spanking is more frequent in the
population, the "erudite" teacher knows that something OTHER than how a
child is punished is likely involved. Sick child maybe? Or a learning
disability? A natural difference in developmental progress as it
varies from child to child normally?

"Erudite" teachers, real ones, without severe mental problems such as
compulsions to go to pain and humiliation in child rearing and teaching,
tend to go through a list of possibilities before they light on "bad
child, deliberately defying me, I MUST HIT."

Trust me on this. I have "erudite" teachers in my family that rarely
have problem with behavior in the classroom and report to me when I
discuss this with them, and I do, that the child with the behavior
problem is ALWAYS a child that has been spanked at home.

And the less spanking the less behavior problems, and the child with NO
at home spanking has NONE in these classrooms of my relatives.

Which is what "erudite" teachers everywhere in this land tend to find,
if they are looking...and they are, because they are "erudite" not a
figment of your imagination. 0:-

Surprisingly, after some initial shock, the idea of a spanking is not
always to which the kid objects once the parent and teacher come to an
agreement. For some children it may be the first time in their lives
that 2 adults agreed on anything concerning them!


Observer, babbling becomes you. Are you going to get to the point?

Although there is no set formula for these things, by the time the
teacher finishes, all participants in the conference have reached an
understanding on the state of affairs.


Sure they have. If the parents are non-spankers, at best only a ten
percent chance, and their child has actually misbehaved, at best a .01%
chance if even that, they all know with the exception of the "erudite"
teacher that the teacher is gone of his rocker and is to be avoided and
reported to his principal.

One retired teacher and her family run a website that teaches parents
both how to spank and how to defend themselves against the
feminist-dominated child welfare Schutzstaffel.


And who might the be, Observer? The Pearls that advocate switching
children as young as two months, pulling their hair if the bite during
nursing at even younger ages and similar savagery?

Another former teacher told about teaching a type of spanking known as
*layer cake* to parents of elementary age students. Layer cake is a
series of mini-spankings separated by the parent reasoning with the
child.


I hope the child is older than 6, as they cannot equate cause and effect
accurately before that time as they do not have sufficient brain
development until seven and beyond, and in fact need a few years of
practice and experience even then to increase abstract reasoning accuracy.

Ask an "erudite" teacher. They are aware of this.

A third teacher went public. She told a reporter during an interview
that she had discovered that most of her school's troublemakers were
kids who were not spanked. This teacher recommended parents spank kids
when they misbehave at school.


Oh. Please provide a link to this information. You have to be getting it
somewhere rather than out your butt.

Though I could be wrong.

I've heard "teachers" make such claims before. And even cops, and upon
closer examination of the very children they were discussing it was
discovered they lied. The children WERE in fact spanked at home.

Another elementary school teacher admitted that, despite her childhood
education training and spending a small fortune on counselors, she
finally solved her daughters' behavioral challenges by explicitly
following the directions printed on a souvenir paddle she bought on a
lark while vacationing. Although peers at first thought she had lost
her mind, the teacher recommended that other parents follow her
example!


She had lost her mind, and her child. "Solved her daughter's behavioral
challenges" is a highly subjective commentary. She may have, and much
more likely, added to the long term outcomes and done great harm in that
way.

Simply "behaving" as in "complying" is only a partial and highly limited
solution. My thought is that this person likely had other methods of
parenting that set up resistance and avoidance in the child. I've
certainly seen it before.

These teachers represent a quiet rebellion of experienced teachers,
many of whom are parents, that is undermining noisy no-spank rhetoric
that is often delivered by childless idealists or those still haunted
by miserable childhood memories. Often they are lead teachers and
mentor teachers on whom schools depend for organizational memory and
internal stability.


In other words, you are pretending that paddling is on it's way back in
schoolrooms and that the rest of the country that as yet doesn't, will
be treated to the academic and behavioral victories common to those
states that now do paddle. Am I correct?

Given the current state of affairs in the classroom,


Which is?

Which states?

Who paddles?

What does the academic accomplishment look like?

How much violent crime is present?

How much acting out in classroom goes on?

And again, don't forget, give us a state by state comparison.

especially given
the high rate of turnover among new teachers unprepared to survive the
disaster of the public school classroom and the desperate need for
competent classroom management, paddle by proxy may be the new trend in
school discipline.


Teacher turnover high?

Shall we see what the actual reasons are, rather than your lies and
misinformation?

Sure, why not. I've got a few minutes to kill before I go back to
organizing my library shelves.

Hereyahgo:
http://tinyurl.com/939kc

..private school references snipped, though it's about pay there too......

CNN.com In-Depth Specials - Teachers: low pay, low morale, high ...
Teachers: low pay, low morale, high turnover. graphic. By Christy
Oglesby CNN. (CNN) -- It's a bad combination: the worst school, the
worst students and the
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/sch...f.effects.html - 28k -
Teachers.Net - TEACHERS.NET GAZETTE - Teachers.Net Gazette ...
In his professional analysis of teacher turnover and resulting teacher .
teachers. "Schools need to address the organizational sources of low
teacher ...teachers.net/gazette/DEC01/letter010.html - 26k - Cached -
Similar pages

kingcountyjournal.com - Teacher turnover causing concern
Teacher turnover causing concern. 2005-03-26 by Jamie Swift ... Riley
offered several possible explanations for the low retention rate,
including the ...
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sit...ry/html/202408 - 26k - Cached -
Similar pages

ECS Education Policy Issue Site: Teaching Quality--Recruitment ...
.... and innovative strategies such as building low-rent housing for
teachers or,
.... Another factor that contributes significantly to teacher turnover
and ...
http://www.ecs.org/html/issue.asp?is...&subIssueID=65 - 19k - Cached -
Similar pages

[PDF] NEWS RELEASE CENTER SAYS SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS AN IMPENDING CRISIS ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
the Leandro case to help low-wealth districts. Teacher Turnover. Nearly
one in
three new teachers leaves the profession after three years on the job, ...
www.nccppr.org/Teachershortage.pdf - Similar pages

National Association of Secondary School Principals. NASSP ...
.... they do not also address the organizational sources of low teacher
retention.
.... One of the most important findings has been that teacher turnover is ...
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...06/ai_n9095340 - 30k -
Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] OLICY RIEF
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
teacher turnover in the Hawai‘i DOE is $4021974. This estimate is low in
that it
.... beginning teacher salary and the low estimate of. teacher turnover. ...
http://www.hawaii.edu/hepc/pdf/Brief...erTurnover.pdf - Similar pages

There's the sources and here's what we get;
""First-year teachers get placed in the most-difficult classrooms and
most-difficult schools, and we have to stop doing that to them," said
Gayla Hudson, a former teacher and director of teacher quality for the
National Education Association, the country's oldest education
organization. "I was one of those (new) teachers who was placed in the
classroom that other teachers feared.""

""You can't just teach English or teach math anymore," Horwitz said.
"You have to be able to teach math and special ed and be a nurse and
deal with children who have emotional problems who act out in class."

And while teachers' responsibilities are multiplying, their salaries are
not. The average salary increase for teachers in 2000 was the lowest in
four decades, according to an AFT survey. Last year, the average
national teacher salary was $41,820 -- 3.2 percent more than it was in
1999. It failed to keep pace with the rate of inflation of 3.4 percent. "

The articles cited go on and on and on with this and similar themes.
More responsibility, less administrative support, assignments to
classrooms full of parent brutalized children...

But, let's see what teachers actually say about turnover and "lack of
discipline" the code words for, "I want to beat the tar out them but the
school won't let me."

Gosh, in all my searchers, article after article about turnover and no
mention of "discipline problems." But were I can find them, what do they
actually say?

I hope I won't be considered or accused of racist leanings in posting
the following, but we know that culturally black families tend to spank
more than white families. Just a given.

So were are the school discipline problems noted to be greater?

"teacher stress and burnout"
"Lack of administrative support is a category that includes but is not
limited to the following teacher perceptions: principals are “not
supportive” if they do not handle discipline to the teachers’ liking; do
not understand the instructional program the teachers are trying to
offer; do not provide the time and resources the teachers believe
necessary; do not value teachers’ opinions or involve them sufficiently
in decision making; do not support them in disputes with parents; or
fail to listen to their problems and suggestions. "

But of course it doesn't say WHAT those discipline likings ARE. It could
be the teacher does NOT want the child expelled (a stupid 'punishment'
if ever there was one.) And like all the other article, it's only one of
the many reasons given.

Here's an interesting one:

"In a study of teachers in urban secondary schools students’ lack of
discipline and motivation was the primary source of teacher stress and
the most significant predictor of burnout(Gonzalez 1997)."

Now tell me, Observer, would you guess that spanking in communities
where "urban" schools are located would be more likely to be the case at
home, or not?

In other words, are not spanked children bringing these behavioral
problems with them?

My teacher relatives see two interesting phenomena. The child who
misbehaves at school while behaving well at home, and the one that
behaves well at school, but does not at home.

The one characteristic shared by both kinds of children and families, is
that the children are spanked at home, but not at school.

Kind of gives one a new perspective on how spanking works given the
differences in children. Some will rebel and some will hide it.

But both, in these examples "misbehaved" somewhere.

Teachers are very aware of this phenomena, and the "erudite" ones....R R
R ...know exactly the cause. I suppose they chuckle at the lesson that
is lost to the parent that has the misbehavior at home and yet they see
none in school, where SPANKING IS PROHIBITED and there is a greater
tendency to be supportive and less punitive overall.

And the of course are concerned about classroom misbehavior and the sick
" compliance out of fear " at home and what that can well be doing to
the child mental health wise.

I have pages and pages of search results I could spend time going
through, but I know what it's going to show, as I've looked at such for
many years. I think I'll get back to my books now and sorting and
cleaning and boxing up some I am getting rid of. Want some?

Might find one that supported your arguments for the savagery of
brutalizing children and calling it "discipline." NOT!

0:-
  #3  
Old December 2nd 05, 02:57 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy



Opinions wrote:
The real problem with paddling in American schools isn't so much the
paddling as who does it. Teachers in America no longer come from the
family next door. Administrators are even more remote.


What an absurd collection of drivel! It's okay for the family next door
to hit kids, but not more remote individuals!

(snip)

Almost all certified teachers still in the classroom today have been
indoctrinated in the virtues of no-spank. It is a rite of passage, a
quasi-religious catechism to be recited as if one is an eternal
brainwashed neophyte not to be trusted with any other thoughts. The
bright ones figure out that no-spank is a crock!


The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that are
compatible with this knowledge. The less than bright ones use the
simplistic and damaging method of hitting children in the name of
discipline because they do not employ more complex thinking that would
result in appropriate and effective discipline practices that address
both long and short term goals for children.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that children imitate
their role models. Hitting models violence. States that allow school
paddling have some of the lowest test scores in the nation, along with
the highest rates of violence.

The whole paddle by proxy junk is contained below. I advise readers to
look at the ridiculousness and fallacy of this post.

LaVonne

Despite the impersonal nature of American public education, some good
teachers are able to build a rapport with parents. Not surprisingly,
many are both experienced teachers with solid educational credentials
as well as functional parents. As gifted communicators, they are
equally at ease talking to parents and students as they are to
administrators and other teachers.

One disciplinary strategy employed by experienced parent-teachers is
paddle by proxy. In addition to phone calls and other contacts, these
teachers will sometimes have the classroom miscreant participate in a
traditional parent-teacher conference.

Truly erudite teachers get the kid to explain the chronic and
disruptive behavior problem to the parent during the conference. Even
the most reluctant parent realized at that point it is unlikely that
the teacher is making things up or picking on her poor innocent child.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher explains the constraints placed
on her by the school board as well as the limitations of the methods
that she is permitted to use in the timeframe in which she has to use
them during the school day. While students are quite aware of the
various dead ends in public school discipline, parents are frequently
woefully ignorant.

As the conference proceeds, the teacher shifts gears. She stops
talking like a know-it-all and starts talking like a parent. Sometimes
directly, at other times circuitously, the teacher nudges the parent
toward the idea of paddling the kid.

Surprisingly, after some initial shock, the idea of a spanking is not
always to which the kid objects once the parent and teacher come to an
agreement. For some children it may be the first time in their lives
that 2 adults agreed on anything concerning them!

Although there is no set formula for these things, by the time the
teacher finishes, all participants in the conference have reached an
understanding on the state of affairs.

One retired teacher and her family run a website that teaches parents
both how to spank and how to defend themselves against the
feminist-dominated child welfare Schutzstaffel.

Another former teacher told about teaching a type of spanking known as
*layer cake* to parents of elementary age students. Layer cake is a
series of mini-spankings separated by the parent reasoning with the
child.

A third teacher went public. She told a reporter during an interview
that she had discovered that most of her school's troublemakers were
kids who were not spanked. This teacher recommended parents spank kids
when they misbehave at school.

Another elementary school teacher admitted that, despite her childhood
education training and spending a small fortune on counselors, she
finally solved her daughters' behavioral challenges by explicitly
following the directions printed on a souvenir paddle she bought on a
lark while vacationing. Although peers at first thought she had lost
her mind, the teacher recommended that other parents follow her
example!

These teachers represent a quiet rebellion of experienced teachers,
many of whom are parents, that is undermining noisy no-spank rhetoric
that is often delivered by childless idealists or those still haunted
by miserable childhood memories. Often they are lead teachers and
mentor teachers on whom schools depend for organizational memory and
internal stability.

Given the current state of affairs in the classroom, especially given
the high rate of turnover among new teachers unprepared to survive the
disaster of the public school classroom and the desperate need for
competent classroom management, paddle by proxy may be the new trend in
school discipline.


  #4  
Old December 2nd 05, 04:08 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:


The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that are
compatible with this knowledge. The less than bright ones use the
simplistic and damaging method of hitting children in the name of
discipline because they do not employ more complex thinking that would
result in appropriate and effective discipline practices that address
both long and short term goals for children.

How about your parents, Lavonne? Are you saying that they were "less than
bright"? ;-)

Doan


  #5  
Old December 2nd 05, 05:45 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy

LaVonne must have had a miserable childhood. She comes off as an
extremely rigid person spouting the party line of the educational
establishment as if were a religious catechism for which no alternative
exists. She has the online persona of a drill sergeant.

More interestingly, she never takes the time to offer complete
explanations. LaVonne's apparent style of teaching is known in higher
academic circles as the *hide the salami* method. Consistent with many
absolutely rotten instructors, her contributions to this newsgroup
suggest that she is high on expectations and low in support.

I cannot help but wonder how long LaVonne would actually survive in
public schools teaching remedial reading or basic grammar construction
to children of color in the Mississippi Delta or to sons of the Lakota
in the *school-to-prison pipeline* of Winner, South Dakota. How would
her formal evaluations by school principals in those districts actually
read in light of authenticated student achievement?

Sadly, for America's children, LaVonne's level of rigidity has invited
interventions that range from No Child Left Behind mandated testing to
the Junkyard Prophet band's *dog and pony* show.


Doan wrote:
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:


The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that are
compatible with this knowledge. The less than bright ones use the
simplistic and damaging method of hitting children in the name of
discipline because they do not employ more complex thinking that would
result in appropriate and effective discipline practices that address
both long and short term goals for children.

How about your parents, Lavonne? Are you saying that they were "less than
bright"? ;-)

Doan


  #6  
Old December 2nd 05, 06:10 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paddle by proxy


Opinions wrote:
LaVonne must have had a miserable childhood. She comes off as an
extremely rigid person spouting the party line of the educational
establishment as if were a religious catechism for which no alternative
exists. She has the online persona of a drill sergeant.


Your assessment is a wonder of depth and perception.

More interestingly, she never takes the time to offer complete
explanations.


It's all been done here before, by her and others. Cats can be skinned
in a finite number of ways.

LaVonne's apparent style of teaching is known in higher
academic circles as the *hide the salami* method.


You mean challenge the student to do their own learning with resources
at their disposal? We used to call that "lab."

Consistent with many
absolutely rotten instructors, her contributions to this newsgroup
suggest that she is high on expectations and low in support.


But you never really indicated how much you needed handholding. I
presume that, like myself, when the student presents as sufficiently
limited eventually, she too stops leading in recognition that providing
crutches does not help the terminally dysfunctional.

I cannot help but wonder how long LaVonne would actually survive in
public schools teaching remedial reading or basic grammar construction
to children of color in the Mississippi Delta or to sons of the Lakota
in the *school-to-prison pipeline* of Winner, South Dakota.


You have no idea how very funny that is in context of LaVonne's actual
history. But then, that's private.

How would
her formal evaluations by school principals in those districts actually
read in light of authenticated student achievement?


Outstanding to Brilliant, most likely. That's why see is a successful
college instructor of....guess who?

Sadly, for America's children, LaVonne's level of rigidity has invited
interventions that range from No Child Left Behind mandated testing to
the Junkyard Prophet band's *dog and pony* show.


I've no idea if she has support NCLB, but I'm going to take a wild
guess and presume that she knows that testing an in infintesimal part
of evaluting a students understanding and learning of a subject. I know
the teachers in my family don't care for testing only as measures of
academic acheivement.

It appears that sans any lucid and fact based argument you have
devolved into using the same tactics of blathering argument on the
issue to attacking the person.

Lying about one is no more credible than about the other.

And everyone's got an opinion.

You a pretty good teacher yourself, are yah?

0:-



Doan wrote:
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:


The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that are
compatible with this knowledge. The less than bright ones use the
simplistic and damaging method of hitting children in the name of
discipline because they do not employ more complex thinking that would
result in appropriate and effective discipline practices that address
both long and short term goals for children.

How about your parents, Lavonne? Are you saying that they were "less than
bright"? ;-)

Doan


 




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