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#81
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
Bob Officer -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in
: I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Nobody? Just because you don't know how he does them, does not mean nobody knows how he does them. To think, Carole claims to have studied logic in school and was good at Math and English and has a higher than normal IQ. Carole also states, anyone with an education is dumbed-down. And every single post she makes proves her claims wrong. He's a professional stage magician, and just ask any other professional stage magician if they know how he does them. They do know, it's their job. Anyone can learn how to do magic tricks. It is simple misdirection. It really doesn't take as much skill as juggling does. I can't juggle, but I can do a few card tricks. Amusingly enough, the last amateur magician who tried to misdirect my attention to remove my watch from my wrist failed rather badly. Yeah, you are. I just won't accept fantasies with no evidence to back them up. IT amounts to evidence and no evidence. Who do you believe? My vote goes with evidence all the time. I read fantasy novels for recreation, but I don't mistake them for reality. There are ways that people can interfere in experiments - either setting them up wrong, putting conditions on them, qualifying terms, modifying the scope, or others. You wouldn't always know who is pushing the buttons to get a decision made a certain way. More rationalization. I'm not interested in that. It is all she has. It's kind of sad. -- Penicillin cures pneumonia even if you're in a coma, but alternative medicine only seems to work when you are awake. - Author Unknown |
#82
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"Steelclaws" wrote in message 4.39... "carole" wrote in ond.com: Broadly speaking, I've compared we're told by "experts" and "reliable sources" and what the alteranative views are on many topics. Just how would you manage to do that? By your own admission you can't use PubMed, and even if you could, you cannot understand the articles. As I said before, from my own experience I have discovered how to eliminate parasites, fungi, infections, various aches and pains, stomach troubles, constipation, headaches all with alternative remedies. This - even if true, and I have serious doubts about that - does NOT answer my question. How would you know what expert sources say when you cannot understand research articles? Mainstream medicine and what they typically prescribe. -- There are three kinds of medicine: medicine that has been scientifically validated to work, medicine that has not, and medicine that has been scientifically shown not to work. -Orac And medicine that has had rigged studies and medicine that is suppressed and the inventors labeled as quacks. Absolutely all sorts. Present _valid_ evidence for your claims. Also present _valid_ evidence that quackery works in anything else than relieving their dupes from their cash. Relieving dupes of their cash is what pharmaceutical medicine is expert at. I said _valid_ evidence. Your opinion is not evidence. My opinion is more valid to me than the opinions of "experts" and "reliable sources". Consensus medicine - where everybody agrees on something that nobody agrees on. Your opinion may be valid to you, but not to anyone else without _valid_ evidence. So present valid evidence that backs your opinion. I can get rid of infections, parasites and fungi with cheap cellsalts, which tells me that modern medicine is wrong. -- The concepts of orthomolecular medicine are not biologically plausible and not supported by the results of rigorous clinical trials. These problems are compounded by the fact that orthomolecular medicine can cause harm and is often very expensive. -Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst Replace "orthomolecular" with "allopathic" and you're getting closer to the truth. http://www.orthomolecular.org/ Orthomolecular medicine describes the practice of preventing and treating disease by providing the body with optimal amounts of substances which are natural to the body. So where is the evidence that it works as they claim? Their mere opinion - and that's what that quote is - is just an opinion, not evidence. I can get rid of fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts, most of which are dirt cheap and easy to find, some in the supermarket. Yeah, right. Present _valid_ evidence that Singh and Ernst are wrong in their evaluation. The fact that I can get rid of diseases that modern medicine would treat with pharmaceutical products, shows that it doesn't understand about nutritional remedies. But not only doesn't modern medicine understand nutritional remedies, but it doesn't want to understand. Modern medicine uses micronutrients to treat deficiency diseases, and you know it. Modern medicine has ruled out the concepts of "toxemia" and "acidosis" which are the two main causes of chronic disease. And by your own admission, your "cures" can't get rid of your fungus. -- One of the reasons for conspiracy theories is an assumption that people in high places always know what they are doing. When they do something that makes no sense, devious reasons are imagined by conspiracy theorists, when in fact it may be due to plain old ignorance and incompetence. - Thomas Sowel I don't believe this saying. I think that people in the very highest places know exactly what they're doing and the way to go about achieving it. I wish I had your confidence in high-level politicians. I don't, since I'm well aware that humans make errors. People in high places are paid good taxpayer money and have plenty of underlings to help them. why should they make mistakes? -- HOMOEOPATHY, n. A school of medicine midway between Allopathy and Christian Science. To the last both the others are distinctly inferior, for Christian Science will cure imaginary diseases, and they can not. -Ambrose Bierce As usual, you don't know what you're talking about steelclaws. Allopathic is today's medicine. Look it up in the dictionary. -- Carole www.conspiracee.com "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -President Franklin D. Roosevelt |
#83
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message ... "carole" wrote: even if the Drug Story by Hans Ruesch isn't based on facts it has more truth than all the crap we're fed as fact. That's a keeper!! Have you even read it? Have you checked off the information in it against other unbiased sourced? I strongly doubt it. Do you always talk out the side of your mouth? -- Carole www.conspiracee.com "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no secret is revealed. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. I am asking your help in the tremendous task of alerting the people." --President Kennedy |
#84
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"Bob Officer" -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:43:42 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative, Steelclaws wrote: "carole" wrote in pond.com: I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not - would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise, please present valid evidence. I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Nobody? Just because you don't know how he does them, does not mean nobody knows how he does them. To think, Carole claims to have studied logic in school and was good at Math and English and has a higher than normal IQ. Carole also states, anyone with an education is dumbed-down. I used to have asthma - got rid of it with cellsalts, it took 5 years to my last attack. Allergic rhinitus, housedust allergies - I don't get them anymore. He's a professional stage magician, and just ask any other professional stage magician if they know how he does them. They do know, it's their job. Anyone can learn how to do magic tricks. It is simple misdirection. It really doesn't take as much skill as juggling does. Randi really is a trickster. In the Horizon videos it says he was walking about waving his hands and doing magic tricks. According to Randi this was to "lighten the mood". Lighten the mood my arse. He was up to something no doubt, either distraction or something to nullify the experiment. But you'd never know. Did you read http://hpathy.com/homeopathy-papers/the-facts-about-an- ingenious-homeopathic-experiment-that-was-not- completed-due-to-the-tricks-of-mr-james-randi/ The Facts About an Ingenious Homeopathic Experiment that was not Completed Due to the 'Tricks' of Mr. James Randi. -- Carole www.conspiracee.com "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no secret is revealed. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. I am asking your help in the tremendous task of alerting the people." --President Kennedy |
#85
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"Steelclaws" wrote in message .39... Bob Officer -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in : I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Nobody? Just because you don't know how he does them, does not mean nobody knows how he does them. To think, Carole claims to have studied logic in school and was good at Math and English and has a higher than normal IQ. Carole also states, anyone with an education is dumbed-down. And every single post she makes proves her claims wrong. And steelclaws, I'm beginning to realise that's all you've got --no logic, no reasonings, just rhetoric behind all your hot air. It is all she has. It's kind of sad. Yes, it is sad, that you've devoted your life to your career and all you've got is rhetoric. -- Penicillin cures pneumonia even if you're in a coma, but alternative medicine only seems to work when you are awake. - Author Unknown Now why would that be the case ...I think you're clutching at straws now. snicker Maybe we should rename you to steelstraws. /snicker -- Carole www.conspiracee.com Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool" http://groups.google.com.au/group/mi...ss+epidemic%22 |
#86
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
On 11/11/10 8:53 PM, carole wrote:
"Bob Officer"-*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:43:42 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative, wrote: wrote in nd.com: I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not - would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise, please present valid evidence. I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Nobody? Just because you don't know how he does them, does not mean nobody knows how he does them. To think, Carole claims to have studied logic in school and was good at Math and English and has a higher than normal IQ. Carole also states, anyone with an education is dumbed-down. I used to have asthma - got rid of it with cellsalts, it took 5 years to my last attack. Allergic rhinitus, housedust allergies - I don't get them anymore. Wow! Five years? How do you know that it was cell salts and not other changes that occurred? I am sure that there were many changes in those five years, including your body getting five years older and other changes in your immune system. Jeff He's a professional stage magician, and just ask any other professional stage magician if they know how he does them. They do know, it's their job. Anyone can learn how to do magic tricks. It is simple misdirection. It really doesn't take as much skill as juggling does. Randi really is a trickster. In the Horizon videos it says he was walking about waving his hands and doing magic tricks. According to Randi this was to "lighten the mood". Lighten the mood my arse. He was up to something no doubt, either distraction or something to nullify the experiment. But you'd never know. Did you read http://hpathy.com/homeopathy-papers/the-facts-about-an- ingenious-homeopathic-experiment-that-was-not- completed-due-to-the-tricks-of-mr-james-randi/ The Facts About an Ingenious Homeopathic Experiment that was not Completed Due to the 'Tricks' of Mr. James Randi. |
#87
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"Bob Officer" -*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:26:09 +1100, in misc.health.alternative, "carole" wrote: "Steelclaws" wrote in message . 214.39... "carole" wrote in nd.com: Have you decided yet if Randi used brain waves or magnets? Not that either would make any difference, of course, to the water. Maybe magnets because during the time he was present he was playing around and doing certain tricks - on one of these videos. Wouldn't have been hard for him to wave his hands over all the vials. Pt 4 - Details of experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO3A04cOis Pt 5 - James Randi involvement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSzOShJb2U I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not - would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise, please present valid evidence. I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Randi could have known about electromagnetic effect on homeopathic solutions. http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/n...namization.htm "...Vibration and Its Crucial Role in Homeopathy: A key piece to the puzzle of homeopathy is the role of vibration in making the medicines. Without it there is no homeopathy. This was stated by Samuel Hahnemann, M.D., the original describer of the homeopathic phenomenon. 1. When homeopathic preparations were only diluted (with a gentle swirling action for mixing with the pure water added at each step) Hahnemann discovered there was no healing response when it was given to a patient. 2. When homeopathic preparations were strongly vibrated (in a method described as "shaking" or "stirring" in modern literature but done in a specific way that Hahnemann called "succussion", "dynamization", or "potentization") at higher steps of dilution he found an increased healing response. That is a claim Carole. not Data. Data is support by Evidence. Bob, there's something that I should point out to you. When an idea is offered, instead of immediately denouncing it -- which merely makes you look like you can't handle the truth -- why not try to work with it and think about it. It may not be proof in itself, but may lead to something. Oh but then you don't want to find out anything do you, as your brand of science depends on listening to "experts" and "reliable sources" rather than thinking anything through for yourself. A real shame that people have lost that skill ...well those of the allopathic type that is. Disruptive vibrations and an unexpected danger: Further data about the homeopathic phenomenon is fascinating: 1. When the preparations are exposed to a strong electromagnet they seem to lose their ability to cause a healing response." That again isn't data that is a claim. There is no evidence of ability in the 1st place. I can see now why you never were able to work out homeopathy even by reading it in german. You see bob, its like a computer -- you've got a computer, right? Obviously since you send so much crap to this ng. You know how a PC has got RAM - well you used up all your 100IQ during the translation process. Do you know what how magnetic fields are measured? How is one field called strong and another field called weak? Its irrelevant bob. You should slow down, do some backtracking and get back to the point where it all ****ed up and start from there. -- By providing homeopathy on the NHS and allowing MHRA licensing of products which subsequently appear on pharmacy shelves, the Government runs the risk of endorsing homeopathy as an efficacious system of medicine. To maintain patient trust, choice and safety, the Government should not endorse the use of placebo treatments, including homeopathy. Homeopathy should not be funded on the NHS and the MHRA should stop licensing homeopathic products. - House of Commons report into the Evidence Check on Homeopathy Politicians are often quite ignorant about many things and it wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination for them to be in the pocket of the pharmaceutical cartel. There were several doctors on that committee, which means they were not just laymen. I'm disregarding any paranoid conspiracy fantasies, btw. You don't have to disregard paranoid conspiracy theories -- I'm quite sure they exist. Carole if a conspiracy theory is deemed or called "paranoid" and "paranoid" is used as a descriptive term for "delusion" meaning the delusion is not rational. Then you can not claim to be rational if you believe in "paranoid conspiracy theories", Can you? Bob, do you know what propaganda is? Do you know what its typically used for and its purpose? Do try and follow what I'm saying, actually I'll give you a quote from Steven Greer of the disclosure project. Propaganda is a regular part of what the public routinely gets fed by the powers that be as a coverup and to explain away things they don't want people to know about. You with me? DDT (Decoy, Distract and Trash) http://www.disclosureproject.org/ddt.htm "A former high official at the NSA (National Security Agency) told me about a protocol informally dubbed DDT - that old poisonous chemical long-banned in much of the world. In this application, it stands for Decoy, Distract and Trash - which is what sophisticated intelligence operatives use to set up some person or group, take them off the trail of something real and important, and trash the person or the subject." -- Stephen Greer. -- There are, in fact, two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates And then there are different types of opinion -- emotional gut reaction, opinion based on error, and informed opinion. So there are a lot of different types of opinion. And we have good science and bad science. Sometimes informed opinion can be better than bad science. And that make no sense at all Carole. Sure, if you've got a few braincells missing like you seem to have. When you write for yourself and do not use other people's words, it sure stands out. Whatever bob. Mostly its all been said before and better than I could say it, I just put it together. -- Carole www.conspiracee.com Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool" http://groups.google.com.au/group/mi...ss+epidemic%22 |
#88
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
"dr_jeff" wrote in message ... On 11/3/10 2:35 AM, carole wrote: wrote in message 4.39... Madeleine Ennis was an impartial scientific experimenter and she found homeopathy worked - Part 2 or 3. *facepalm* I've seldom seen a rationalization of that magnitude. From you allopaths maybe with your bias against homeopathy and chiropractic. No, from our bias for treatments and theories that have been proven to work and our bias against treatments and conjectures that have no basis in fact, no evidence to support them and no scientific basis that can explain how they work. Jeff Escuse me for commenting Dr Jeff, but you are in no position to compare allopathic to alternative as you've only ever seen allopathic. -- Carole www.conspiracee.com "For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no secret is revealed. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. I am asking your help in the tremendous task of alerting the people." --President Kennedy |
#89
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
On 11/11/10 9:15 PM, carole wrote:
"Bob Officer"-*-*.@.*-*- wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:26:09 +1100, in misc.health.alternative, wrote: wrote in message 4.39... wrote in nd.com: Have you decided yet if Randi used brain waves or magnets? Not that either would make any difference, of course, to the water. Maybe magnets because during the time he was present he was playing around and doing certain tricks - on one of these videos. Wouldn't have been hard for him to wave his hands over all the vials. Pt 4 - Details of experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzO3A04cOis Pt 5 - James Randi involvement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSzOShJb2U I completely fail to see how waving magnets - surreptiously or not - would do anything about the distilled water. If you think otherwise, please present valid evidence. I don't know how he could have jeopardised the experiment, but he does tricks and nobody knows how he does them. Randi could have known about electromagnetic effect on homeopathic solutions. http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/n...namization.htm "...Vibration and Its Crucial Role in Homeopathy: A key piece to the puzzle of homeopathy is the role of vibration in making the medicines. Without it there is no homeopathy. This was stated by Samuel Hahnemann, M.D., the original describer of the homeopathic phenomenon. 1. When homeopathic preparations were only diluted (with a gentle swirling action for mixing with the pure water added at each step) Hahnemann discovered there was no healing response when it was given to a patient. 2. When homeopathic preparations were strongly vibrated (in a method described as "shaking" or "stirring" in modern literature but done in a specific way that Hahnemann called "succussion", "dynamization", or "potentization") at higher steps of dilution he found an increased healing response. That is a claim Carole. not Data. Data is support by Evidence. Bob, there's something that I should point out to you. When an idea is offered, instead of immediately denouncing it -- which merely makes you look like you can't handle the truth -- why not try to work with it and think about it. It may not be proof in itself, but may lead to something. 1) When an idea has no evidence, no evidence is needed to dismiss the idea. Hahnemann's ideas never had any evidence to back them up. 2) You're making an assumption that is incorrect - that Bob has not thought about homeopathy. I know I have. I know that there is no evidence to back it up. There is no scientific or empirical (read evidence-based) or logical reason to think it might work. One doesn't have to rethink a ridiculous claim every time he sees it to reject it. Oh but then you don't want to find out anything do you, as your brand of science depends on listening to "experts" and "reliable sources" rather than thinking anything through for yourself. On the contrary. There is only one brand of science - the one based on evidence. I can't speak for Bob, but I can assure you that I have thought through homeopathy myself - there is no reason whatsoever to believe it works. None. A real shame that people have lost that skill ...well those of the allopathic type that is. Those of the con-med type (aka, conjecture-based medicine or alternative medicine) never had that skill. And they rely on people who don't have the skill to think for themselves to buy their useless products. Disruptive vibrations and an unexpected danger: Further data about the homeopathic phenomenon is fascinating: 1. When the preparations are exposed to a strong electromagnet they seem to lose their ability to cause a healing response." That again isn't data that is a claim. There is no evidence of ability in the 1st place. I can see now why you never were able to work out homeopathy even by reading it in german. You see bob, its like a computer -- you've got a computer, right? Obviously since you send so much crap to this ng. You know how a PC has got RAM - well you used up all your 100IQ during the translation process. That doesn't even make sense. Do you know what how magnetic fields are measured? How is one field called strong and another field called weak? Its irrelevant bob. You should slow down, do some backtracking and get back to the point where it all ****ed up and start from there. I've done that. Homeopathy got messed it up when it had no scientific backing, no logical reason why it should work and ridiculous underlying conjectures. Jeff -- By providing homeopathy on the NHS and allowing MHRA licensing of products which subsequently appear on pharmacy shelves, the Government runs the risk of endorsing homeopathy as an efficacious system of medicine. To maintain patient trust, choice and safety, the Government should not endorse the use of placebo treatments, including homeopathy. Homeopathy should not be funded on the NHS and the MHRA should stop licensing homeopathic products. - House of Commons report into the Evidence Check on Homeopathy Politicians are often quite ignorant about many things and it wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination for them to be in the pocket of the pharmaceutical cartel. There were several doctors on that committee, which means they were not just laymen. I'm disregarding any paranoid conspiracy fantasies, btw. You don't have to disregard paranoid conspiracy theories -- I'm quite sure they exist. Carole if a conspiracy theory is deemed or called "paranoid" and "paranoid" is used as a descriptive term for "delusion" meaning the delusion is not rational. Then you can not claim to be rational if you believe in "paranoid conspiracy theories", Can you? Bob, do you know what propaganda is? Do you know what its typically used for and its purpose? Do try and follow what I'm saying, actually I'll give you a quote from Steven Greer of the disclosure project. Propaganda is a regular part of what the public routinely gets fed by the powers that be as a coverup and to explain away things they don't want people to know about. You with me? DDT (Decoy, Distract and Trash) http://www.disclosureproject.org/ddt.htm "A former high official at the NSA (National Security Agency) told me about a protocol informally dubbed DDT - that old poisonous chemical long-banned in much of the world. In this application, it stands for Decoy, Distract and Trash - which is what sophisticated intelligence operatives use to set up some person or group, take them off the trail of something real and important, and trash the person or the subject." -- Stephen Greer. -- There are, in fact, two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates And then there are different types of opinion -- emotional gut reaction, opinion based on error, and informed opinion. So there are a lot of different types of opinion. And we have good science and bad science. Sometimes informed opinion can be better than bad science. And that make no sense at all Carole. Sure, if you've got a few braincells missing like you seem to have. When you write for yourself and do not use other people's words, it sure stands out. Whatever bob. Mostly its all been said before and better than I could say it, I just put it together. |
#90
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Water has memory, validating homeopathy
On 11/11/10 9:16 PM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ... On 11/3/10 2:35 AM, carole wrote: wrote in message 4.39... Madeleine Ennis was an impartial scientific experimenter and she found homeopathy worked - Part 2 or 3. *facepalm* I've seldom seen a rationalization of that magnitude. From you allopaths maybe with your bias against homeopathy and chiropractic. No, from our bias for treatments and theories that have been proven to work and our bias against treatments and conjectures that have no basis in fact, no evidence to support them and no scientific basis that can explain how they work. Jeff Escuse me for commenting Dr Jeff, but you are in no position to compare allopathic to alternative as you've only ever seen allopathic. One doesn't have to see a pile of dog feces to smell it. Likewise, one doesn't have to see a homeopathy person to know that homeopathy has no basis in evidence, no valid scientific theory that can explain why it can work and contradicts the way we know the body works through empirical science. I can get the same thing that a homeopath would sell by making a still and then making distilled water. And, it would be just as effective as homeopathy - totally useless (unless I am thirsty). Jeff |
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