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#1
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
This is probably tempting fate to write it down but so far so good. I
had been putting it off for ages as there was always some excuse; Moo was teething, or had a cold. In the end I reasoned that there would always be some excuse and I needed more than 3 hours sleep. I was feeding him every 2 to 3 hours throughout the night. Also the 3-4am feeds were for comfort as he never dramk particuarly entheusiastically at that time. I decided not to nurse him between 1.30 am and 5.30 as the 3-4am feeds were the ones that were killing me. The first night I swapped bed sides with his dad (we co sleep) and Moo cried for 2 hours in his dads arms, it was grim with me holding my aching boobs feeling awful for not comforting him. Night 2 he cried for half an hour, Night 3 a quarter of an hour. It's 3 weeks on now and sometimes he wakes up at 4ish, sometimes has a bit of a cry (last night it as 10 minutes) but it seems to be becuase he is trying to get comfortable and closer to me. Once he has got into a position he likes, sometimes with his head on my pillow, sometimes lying on me, or across the bed at a right angle he goes straight back to sleep. He doesn't thump me, or headbut me for milk now. It was awful to do, but he now sleeps 5 to 7 hours straight most nights. Teapot and the Moo Boy, 10 mths old today |
#2
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"teapot" wrote in message
om... It was awful to do, but he now sleeps 5 to 7 hours straight most nights. I am glad to hear that you are finally getting a decent stretch of sleep! If you want, next time you want to drop a feed, a more gradual approach is described in Ferber's book. Basically you combine increasing the length of time between feeds by a half hour per night, starting from 2 hours, and also decrease the length of each feeding by one minute per night. At the end of a week the feedings are stopped. It may result in less overall crying, or may not. Just throwing out another idea for you to take it or leave it. :-) -- Cheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 7 months |
#3
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Cheryl S." wrote in message ...
"teapot" wrote in message om... It was awful to do, but he now sleeps 5 to 7 hours straight most nights. I am glad to hear that you are finally getting a decent stretch of sleep! If you want, next time you want to drop a feed, a more gradual approach is described in Ferber's book. Basically you combine increasing the length of time between feeds by a half hour per night, starting from 2 hours, and also decrease the length of each feeding by one minute per night. At the end of a week the feedings are stopped. It may result in less overall crying, or may not. Just throwing out another idea for you to take it or leave it. :-) I sort of tried this before but as Moo Boy didn't have a regular nightime feed timetable it was impossible to do without teaching him that if he yelled for half an hour he got fed. I also tried nursing for less time but as he wasnt after the food, but comfort, it made no difference, he still woke up. Thanks for the post though. teapot |
#4
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
Cheryl S wrote:
Basically you combine increasing the length of time between feeds by a half hour per night, starting from 2 hours, and also decrease the length of each feeding by one minute per night. There is NO WAY I could work that out in the middle of the night. Every night I stand in front of our clock completely unable to read it. In the morning DH often asks me how many times DD woke up to feed and I have no idea. I think 18 months of sleep deprivation has taken its toll! Glad you have worked something out Teapot! Personally I think that leaving a baby to cry safe in a loving parent's arms is the best way of doing things sometimes. ROSIE |
#5
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Rosie" wrote in message
... Cheryl S wrote: Basically you combine increasing the length of time between feeds by a half hour per night, starting from 2 hours, and also decrease the length of each feeding by one minute per night. There is NO WAY I could work that out in the middle of the night. Every night I stand in front of our clock completely unable to read it. In the morning DH often asks me how many times DD woke up to feed and I have no idea. I think 18 months of sleep deprivation has taken its toll! LOL. Believe me, I couldn't have figured it out in the middle of the night either. I had to figure it out and write it down for myself before going to bed. (e.g., "wait until at least 2:15 and nurse for only 4 minutes") Of course, if you can't even *read* the clock, it is going to make this impossible! But I'd say that means you do need to do something to get things to change and get more sleep for yourself. Maybe start with a two-hour block of time and increase it by a half hour a night, rather than calculate based on the time of the last feed. Like: Night 1 no nursing between 12:00-2:00 Night 2 12:00-2:30 etc. That way there's less to think about, but you would have to read the clock. I cannot imagine putting up with that for 18 months. You are an iron-mom! :-) -- Cheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 7 months |
#6
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
snip Maybe start with a two-hour block of time and increase it by a half hour a night, rather than calculate based on the time of the last feed. Like: Night 1 no nursing between 12:00-2:00 Night 2 12:00-2:30 etc. Reading this thread with great interest. We're not far behind Moo boy in age so teapot always gets there first (phew!!). Pup is up in the night every three hours on the dot - yet during the day he's shown that he can go for 5hrs (if he doesn't want to feed before I have to go out). Teapot - did he just cry himself out after the 2hours and go back to sleep? Sadly we don't have a comfort feed session, they all seem to be enthusiastic - do you think that makes a difference? And Cheryl - do you just earplug for that extended half-an-hour? We've sort of tried this but he's impossible to settle if he's left to cry - easier after just 5 mins. I'm scared that instead of going through and feeding and being awake for 20 mins, the whole house will be awake listening to him crying and then still having to get up to go settle him, and probably feed him in order to get him back to sleep so awake for even longer *sigh* Oh he's started...... --Poppy |
#7
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Poppy" wrote in message ...
snip Maybe start with a two-hour block of time and increase it by a half hour a night, rather than calculate based on the time of the last feed. Like: Night 1 no nursing between 12:00-2:00 Night 2 12:00-2:30 etc. Reading this thread with great interest. We're not far behind Moo boy in age so teapot always gets there first (phew!!). Pup is up in the night every three hours on the dot - yet during the day he's shown that he can go for 5hrs (if he doesn't want to feed before I have to go out). Teapot - did he just cry himself out after the 2hours and go back to sleep? Pretty much, I offered him some water in case he was thirsty but he didn't really want it. It's 3.30 am now and he has just gone back to sleep after a bum change and a cuddle but no nursing. He has got a stinking cold though (I am up driking cough medicine) and he is droolling again so I think there may be more teeth on the way. teapot |
#8
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Poppy" wrote in message
... Reading this thread with great interest. We're not far behind Moo boy in age so teapot always gets there first (phew!!). Pup is up in the night every three hours on the dot - yet during the day he's shown that he can go for 5hrs (if he doesn't want to feed before I have to go out). Since he's already going 3 hours, I'd start the first night going a minimum of 3.5 hours. He shouldn't be going a long stretch during the day; you want that to occur at night. If you follow this schedule he won't be likely to not want to feed before you go out once you're nursing less at night. Teapot - did he just cry himself out after the 2hours and go back to sleep? Sadly we don't have a comfort feed session, they all seem to be enthusiastic - do you think that makes a difference? It makes a difference in that, according to Ferber, the more you eat during sleep time, the lower-quality sleep you get, so you wake more fully, more often. It doesn't make a difference in how you go about stopping it. And Cheryl - do you just earplug for that extended half-an-hour? No, you go and comfort the baby verbally, pats on the back, but no picking up and you have to be in the mindset that you are not helping the baby go to sleep, you are just providing reassurance that you are still nearby and will come if needed, and going in periodically also gives you reassurance that nothing is seriously wrong. You go in after 5, then 10, then 15 minutes, then continue waiting 15 minutes between going in until the baby falls asleep one of the times that you are out of the room. (You can use shorter intervals if you can't bear to wait that long, as I did, as long as they are increasing in length over time. I went 2, 5, and 10 minutes at first.) If he is starting to quiet down and the crying is getting intermittent, then you don't go in. Of course this is for kids sleeping in their own bed/crib. If you're co-sleeping, probably having someone else hold the baby as Teapot did is about the only option. We've sort of tried this but he's impossible to settle if he's left to cry - easier after just 5 mins. I'm scared that instead of going through and feeding and being awake for 20 mins, the whole house will be awake listening to him crying and then still having to get up to go settle him, and probably feed him in order to get him back to sleep so awake for even longer *sigh* I was afraid of doing it in the middle of the night because of my 3yo in the next room. It turned out not to be a problem at all. The thing with the Ferber method is, the purpose is for the child to establish *new* sleep associations -- ones that are the same each and every time he wakes up all night, so that it's easy for him to fall back to sleep. Nursing to sleep doesn't fit that criteria for a baby that sleeps in a crib. Ferber also says, crying is not in any way helpful on its own. If the baby cries for an hour, but then you go in and nurse him all the way to a sound slumber, you've gained absolutely nothing. His sleep association will not have changed one bit. The fastest way for the baby to form the new sleep associations is to get practice at using them. So every time the baby is to go to sleep, is an opportunity to move toward the new sleep association, where he goes to bed awake and falls asleep without anyone else in the room. It was tough, because I was so tired already, and for the first 3-4 nights, yes, he was awake for longer at 2 AM than he would have been had I just nursed him immediately, but then the awake periods started getting shorter, by the end of a week. The night I completely stopped nursing at night, he was only awake briefly at 1 AM. The next two nights, he went from 8 PM to about 5 AM without a peep (I considered 5 AM good enough and nursed him then, even though he went right back to sleep until 7:30). That was four nights ago. Now, of course, he's gotten a horrible cold and woke at 3:30AM two nights ago, and was up from 2:00 to 3:00 and 5:30 to 6:15 last night. Since he needs extra fluids while sick I've gone back to nursing him when he wakes, but once he's better I'll follow this procedure again, if necessary. Hopefully he'll just go back to sleeping all night on his own. By decreasing the length of each feeding by one minute each night, it's easier on both the baby and you. The baby gets the opportunity to shift his eating to the daytime, and you don't get engorged. Starting from a 2 hour minimum and increasing a half hour each night, and from 7 minutes nursing time and decreasing one minute each night, you stop completely in one week after reaching a 5 hour minimum and 1 minute nursing time. The book says many people don't even go all the way to that point, because after they get down to 3 or so minutes of nursing, the baby goes back to sleep easier without nursing at all. I wasn't that strict about the length of nursing time TBH, though I did decrease it, just more gradually. Those are the main points. I could go on but this is getting too long already. I do recommend the book because it has a lot more information in it including a whole chapter on the physiology of sleep. The title is _Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems_. Just one more point - I do not believe that this causes any psychological harm whatsoever. As my son learned his new sleep associations, he started sleeping for so much of the time, he clearly had been sleep deprived himself, and has become much happier and more active while awake than he had been before doing this. Sleep is a basic need, and it's my responsibility to help him meet that need as much as any other. -- Cheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 7 months |
#9
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Cheryl S." wrote in message ... It makes a difference in that, according to Ferber, the more you eat during sleep time, the lower-quality sleep you get, so you wake more fully, more often. Oh that's interesting and seems likely And Cheryl - do you just earplug for that extended half-an-hour? No, you go and comfort the baby verbally, pats on the back, but no picking up and you have to be in the mindset that you are not helping the baby go to sleep, you are just providing reassurance that you are still nearby and will come if needed, and going in periodically also gives you reassurance that nothing is seriously wrong. You go in after 5, then 10, then 15 minutes, then continue waiting 15 minutes between going in until the baby falls asleep one of the times that you are out of the room. (You can use shorter intervals if you can't bear to wait that long, as I did, as long as they are increasing in length over time. I went 2, 5, and 10 minutes at first.) If he is starting to quiet down and the crying is getting intermittent, then you don't go in. Of course this is for kids sleeping in their own bed/crib. He has his own cot in his own nursery. Can't do pats on the back cos he sleeps on his back - will strokes of his hair be OK? And do we just reassure then go out again even if he's still crying (I think you'll say yes) I was afraid of doing it in the middle of the night because of my 3yo in the next room. It turned out not to be a problem at all. The thing with the Ferber method is, the purpose is for the child to establish *new* sleep associations -- ones that are the same each and every time he wakes up all night, so that it's easy for him to fall back to sleep. Nursing to sleep doesn't fit that criteria for a baby that sleeps in a crib. Ferber also says, crying is not in any way helpful on its own. If the baby cries for an hour, but then you go in and nurse him all the way to a sound slumber, you've gained absolutely nothing. His sleep association will not have changed one bit. The fastest way for the baby to form the new sleep associations is to get practice at using them. So every time the baby is to go to sleep, is an opportunity to move toward the new sleep association, where he goes to bed awake and falls asleep without anyone else in the room. During the day he falls asleep fine with no boob and no endless cuddling/rocking and no-one being right next to him *sigh* snip Just one more point - I do not believe that this causes any psychological harm whatsoever. As my son learned his new sleep associations, he started sleeping for so much of the time, he clearly had been sleep deprived himself, and has become much happier and more active while awake than he had been before doing this. Sleep is a basic need, and it's my responsibility to help him meet that need as much as any other. OK we're gonna give it a go - I'm a bit demoralised doing sleep logs for the NCSS --Poppy n Pup |
#10
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think we may have dropped a night feed!
"Poppy" wrote in message
news:JNYec.16412$4N3.12925@newsfe1-win... He has his own cot in his own nursery. Can't do pats on the back cos he sleeps on his back - will strokes of his hair be OK? And do we just reassure then go out again even if he's still crying (I think you'll say yes) Yes, you guessed it. Patting/stroking his hair or tummy are fine. You only stay for 2-3 minutes and then go back out even if he is still crying, and even if the crying increases when you leave. Then start timing the next interval. The first time I tried this, I was prepared for the worst but he ended up falling asleep in only 15 minutes, after two trips into his room. During the day he falls asleep fine with no boob and no endless cuddling/rocking and no-one being right next to him *sigh* Oh, that is interesting. I would guess that this is actually very promising for quick results with the Ferber method. He just has to learn not to expect it at night either. Does he have a night light? Are there any noises at night but not in the day or vice versa? -- Cheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 7 months |
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