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#11
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New Study Slams Spanking
On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: Ivan Gowch wrote: [snip] : The children who were spanked early in life were also more likely to : be described by their parents as having behavior problems and being : sad or depressed when they hit school age. This may be because children who were spanked early in life behaved worse and experienced more depression later on as a result. Or it might be because children with a predisposition to oppositional behavior and depression are spanked at earlier ages as a result of this. However, if the latter interpretation is correct, it would also indicate that spanking did not succeed in making these children less oppositional and less depressed later in childhood, and that alternatives should be used which work better than spanking. Chris Which alternatives would that be, Chris? The alternatives used by parents of children who were not spanked early in life, doan. Which are...? Do you read? Do you ? The study said: "no information was available on other punishments used by parents" Children in this study who were not spanked early in life were less likely to be described by their parents as having behavior problems and being sad or depressed when they hit school age. What do you think those parents who didn't spank were doing? They were using alternatives. Really? That is not what the author of this study said: "Other forms of punishment may also have been associated with subsequent child behavior problems, but it was not possible to explore those associations using these data." Good grief, doan. Good grief, lavonne! :-) Doan |
#12
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New Study Slams Spanking
On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Doan wrote: http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/113/5/1321 Note the part about African-American and Hispanics: "Among children in this sample, spanking frequency before age 2 was a substantial predictor of a child's risk for behavior problems at school age for white non-Hispanic children only." So all children who are not "white non-Hispanic" deserve to be hit due to their ethnicity? Good grief, Lavonne! :-) Read the study! It only said they saw no correlation! Also note that no one here is recommending spanking for children under two years of age! Baloney. The great "Dr. Dobson" has been touted on the ng for years. He recommends spanking children as soon as they show signs of defiance, which he states is around 18 months of age. My limited understanding of math leads me to conclude that children under 18 months of age are less than two years old. But children younger than 18 months of age are also included in this study. Even with your "limited understanding of math", you would have seen this! ;-) Doan |
#13
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New Study Slams Spanking
Hey doan,
Read Power and Chapieski yet, or are you still dealing with smoke screens? Read the study and let's debate. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Ivan Gowch wrote: The impact of spanking has been the topic of a number of studies -- most with mixed results. The latest research is one of the first to look at the impact of spanking on youngsters under 2. I'm referring to the 1986 study by Power and Chapieski, "Childrearing and Impulse Control in Toddlers: A Naturalistic Investigation." Most disturbing are two conclusions: "...infants of physically punishing mothers showed the lowest levels of compliance and were most likely to manipulate breakable objects during observations...." and "...infants whose mothers relied on physical punishment showed lower Bayley scores at 21 months, especially for the nonverbal items." (Power and Chapieski, 1989, p. 273). No matter how much research is conducted, results are always the same. Spanking is a risk factor in children's lives. Spanking correlates with short and long term negative outcomes. There is no logical or moral reason to spank a child of any age. Can you show me one study where correlations are different with regard to non-cp alternatives under the same conditions? "Perhaps the most difficult methodological problem in research on the effects of CP is posed by the the fact that child behavior problems lead parents to spank. Thus the repeated finding that the more CP parents use, the worse the behavior problems of the child does not necessarily show that CP has harmful effects, or even that CP is not effective in reducing misbehavior (as I erroneously argued in the past)." Straus admitted his error. Can you do the same? Doan |
#14
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New Study Slams Spanking
Doan wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Do you ? The study said: "no information was available on other punishments used by parents" Children in this study who were not spanked early in life were less likely to be described by their parents as having behavior problems and being sad or depressed when they hit school age. What do you think those parents who didn't spank were doing? They were using alternatives. Really? That is not what the author of this study said: "Other forms of punishment may also have been associated with subsequent child behavior problems, but it was not possible to explore those associations using these data." Which means that other forms of punishment may have been used, but these were alternatives to spanking. The study examined spanking. And the results were not favorable for spanking. LaVonne |
#15
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New Study Slams Spanking
On Fri, 7 May 2004 12:17:03 -0700, Doan wrote:
On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Ivan Gowch wrote: The impact of spanking has been the topic of a number of studies -- most with mixed results. The latest research is one of the first to look at the impact of spanking on youngsters under 2. I'm referring to the 1986 study by Power and Chapieski, "Childrearing and Impulse Control in Toddlers: A Naturalistic Investigation." Most disturbing are two conclusions: "...infants of physically punishing mothers showed the lowest levels of compliance and were most likely to manipulate breakable objects during observations...." and "...infants whose mothers relied on physical punishment showed lower Bayley scores at 21 months, especially for the nonverbal items." (Power and Chapieski, 1989, p. 273). No matter how much research is conducted, results are always the same. Spanking is a risk factor in children's lives. Spanking correlates with short and long term negative outcomes. There is no logical or moral reason to spank a child of any age. Can you show me one study where correlations are different with regard to non-cp alternatives under the same conditions? "Perhaps the most difficult methodological problem in research on the effects of CP is posed by the the fact that child behavior problems lead parents to spank. Thus the repeated finding that the more CP parents use, the worse the behavior problems of the child does not necessarily show that CP has harmful effects, or even that CP is not effective in reducing misbehavior (as I erroneously argued in the past)." Straus admitted his error. Can you do the same? Can you not do the same? Your error is one of the simplest. The concept that there is risk inherent in non-punitive parenting. Do you really believe that spanking is on an equal footing, risk wise, and effectiveness wise, with the huge repertoire of non-punitive methods avaible to parents? It's really the simplest of logic. Non-punitive parents has close to zero risks....and those would be mostly incidental to LIFE not the parenting, while spanking is shown to have many risks, including life threatening ones that can put parents in jail and or losing their children. And you still want to say that "parents know what is best for their own children" as though that were a universal truth, right? Doan You are a fraud Doan. You can't be so stupid as to really believe that spanking is better and safer as a teaching tool than nonpunitive methods, but you persist, just as you did in your refusal to actually answer The Question and admit it's unanswerable. Anything but face your failure, right? Typical of the spanked child...and control freak. Thanks for keeping us reminded why parents should give very serious thought to NOT spanking their children, or using punitive teaching methods. Kane |
#16
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New Study Slams Spanking
On Fri, 7 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Hey doan, Read Power and Chapieski yet, or are you still dealing with smoke screens? Read the study and let's debate. LaVonne I have not read Power and Chapieski. Can I get a copy from you? What's the sample size? Is it much larger than the Baumrind & Owens study? As you said, let's debate. Doan |
#17
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New Study Slams Spanking
On Fri, 7 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Doan wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Why snipped your own words? Too ashame? ;-) Do you ? The study said: "no information was available on other punishments used by parents" Children in this study who were not spanked early in life were less likely to be described by their parents as having behavior problems and being sad or depressed when they hit school age. What do you think those parents who didn't spank were doing? They were using alternatives. Really? That is not what the author of this study said: "Other forms of punishment may also have been associated with subsequent child behavior problems, but it was not possible to explore those associations using these data." Which means that other forms of punishment may have been used, but these were alternatives to spanking. The study examined spanking. And the results were not favorable for spanking. Nope. Do you know how to read, LaVonne? The author is saying other forms of punishments may have been confounding factors! Parents often started with non-cp alternatives first as Straus acknowledged: "CP is typically a response to misbehavior, particularly after one or more other intervention have been tried repeatedly and the misbehavior they are meant to correct recurs." Straus, Murray A. & Vera E. Mouradian. 1998 "Impulsive Corporal Punishment by Mothers and Antisocial Behavior and Impulsiveness of children." Behavioral Sciences and the Law. 16: 353-374. Doan |
#18
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New Study Slams Spanking
Doan,
And how exactly am I supposed to provide you with a copy of Power and Chapieski? I gave you the reference: Power, T. & Chapieski, M. (1986). Childrearing and impulse control in toddlers: A naturalistic investigation. Developmental Psychology 22(2), 271-275. I'm sure there is a way for you to acquire the article if you are truly interested. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Hey doan, Read Power and Chapieski yet, or are you still dealing with smoke screens? Read the study and let's debate. LaVonne I have not read Power and Chapieski. Can I get a copy from you? What's the sample size? Is it much larger than the Baumrind & Owens study? As you said, let's debate. Doan |
#19
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New Study Slams Spanking
Doan wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Why snipped your own words? Too ashame? ;-) Oh for heaven sakes, Doan. I snipped enough so that other readers of the post could see the attributes. This included a portion of my previous response that I was not responding to in this post. Do you ? The study said: "no information was available on other punishments used by parents" What do you think those parents who didn't spank were doing? They were using alternatives. Really? That is not what the author of this study said: "Other forms of punishment may also have been associated with subsequent child behavior problems, but it was not possible to explore those associations using these data." Which means that other forms of punishment may have been used, but these were alternatives to spanking. The study examined spanking. And the results were not favorable for spanking. Nope. Do you know how to read, LaVonne? The author is saying other forms of punishments may have been confounding factors! Parents often started with non-cp alternatives first as Straus acknowledged: The author said "other forms of punishment may also have been associated with subsequent child behavior problems, but it was not possible to explore those associations using these data." The author also said, "Children in this study who were not spanked early in life were less likely to be described by their parents as having behavior problems and being sad or depressed when they hit school age." Yes, these children with behavior problems may have been subjected to other forms of punishment as well as spanking. In order to debate the subject logically one has to be familiar with the available body of research. Each study is done under different conditions, with a different population, different hypotheses, and different methodology. Yet nearly four decades of research on spanking has yet to show spanking more effective than alternatives, especially non-punitive alternatives. And nearly four decades of research continues to link spanking with increased risk of both short and long term negative outcomes. LaVonne "CP is typically a response to misbehavior, particularly after one or more other intervention have been tried repeatedly and the misbehavior they are meant to correct recurs." Straus, Murray A. & Vera E. Mouradian. 1998 "Impulsive Corporal Punishment by Mothers and Antisocial Behavior and Impulsiveness of children." Behavioral Sciences and the Law. 16: 353-374. Doan |
#20
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New Study Slams Spanking
Doan wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Ivan Gowch wrote: The impact of spanking has been the topic of a number of studies -- most with mixed results. The latest research is one of the first to look at the impact of spanking on youngsters under 2. I'm referring to the 1986 study by Power and Chapieski, "Childrearing and Impulse Control in Toddlers: A Naturalistic Investigation." Most disturbing are two conclusions: "...infants of physically punishing mothers showed the lowest levels of compliance and were most likely to manipulate breakable objects during observations...." and "...infants whose mothers relied on physical punishment showed lower Bayley scores at 21 months, especially for the nonverbal items." (Power and Chapieski, 1989, p. 273). No matter how much research is conducted, results are always the same. Spanking is a risk factor in children's lives. Spanking correlates with short and long term negative outcomes. There is no logical or moral reason to spank a child of any age. Can you show me one study where correlations are different with regard to non-cp alternatives under the same conditions? If you understood research and had read the multitude of studies spanning nearly four decades, you would ask such a ridiculous question. "Perhaps the most difficult methodological problem in research on the effects of CP is posed by the the fact that child behavior problems lead parents to spank. Thus the repeated finding that the more CP parents use, the worse the behavior problems of the child does not necessarily show that CP has harmful effects, or even that CP is not effective in reducing misbehavior (as I erroneously argued in the past)." Straus admitted his error. Can you do the same? You pulled this quote out of context and you neglected to provide a reference for a direct quote. Please do so. LaVonne Doan |
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