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#1
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Choices women make
Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women
attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly |
#2
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In article , Beverly says...
Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly ==== Nice post, Beverly. Thanks for taking the time. ==== |
#3
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Just a thought!!
Why are single women (who decided on adoption withouth the fathers knowledge)not required to pay child support for the next 18 years when they give children up for adoption? Why are Bill and Julie who are 16 and not ready to be parents not required to both pay child support? "Beverly" wrote in message ... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly |
#4
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This post bothered me when I read it.. it seemed insulting to me... I showed
it to my husband, who was angered by it. He too found it insulting. It suggests that fathers are irresponsible and unimportant and should never be counted on, or trusted by either their wives or children. Neither of us believe that to be true and find your sentiments misguided. "Gini" wrote in message ... In article , Beverly says... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly ==== Nice post, Beverly. Thanks for taking the time. ==== |
#5
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In article L61Ed.25933$Q%4.16107@fed1read06, Andi says...
This post bothered me when I read it.. it seemed insulting to me... I showed it to my husband, who was angered by it. He too found it insulting. It suggests that fathers are irresponsible and unimportant and should never be counted on, or trusted by either their wives or children. Neither of us believe that to be true and find your sentiments misguided. ===== I think you went a little far afield with your interpretation. ===== "Gini" wrote in message ... In article , Beverly says... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly ==== Nice post, Beverly. Thanks for taking the time. ==== |
#6
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On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:00:20 -0700, "Andi" wrote:
This post bothered me when I read it.. it seemed insulting to me... I showed it to my husband, who was angered by it. He too found it insulting. It suggests that fathers are irresponsible and unimportant and should never be counted on, or trusted by either their wives or children. Neither of us believe that to be true and find your sentiments misguided. I never meant to suggest that fathers were irresponsible and unimportant. In fact, I believe I said that a child has two parents, neither of which is more important than the other. My point was that women should strive to be as self-reliant as their husbands are. This is not only in case there is a divorce, but as a measure to ensure the ability to provide for children she chooses to have in such cases as being widowed or having a husband who becomes totally disabled and unable to work as well. I am also of the belief that men should strive to be as involved in their children's lives as possible... as a CO-primary caregiver. I believe men and women can be EQUAL partners and EQUAL parents. Making a choice for something often involves making a choice against something else. Just as a woman who chooses to be the primary caregiver and rely solely on the financial support of her husband can find herself in financial trouble should she ever become a single parent, a man who makes the choice to "leave the parenting to Mom" while working extra hours to make a living to support the family can find himself in a house full of strangers should he ever become a single parent. Finding the BALANCE between having children, raising them, and supporting them is an equal opportunity endeavor. And this balance is so absolutely necessary if a family should split. Not only does each party need to be able to provide a home where children can stay, but each parent needs enough of a relationship with their children to make visitation as emotionally benign to the children as possible. Unfortunately, this includes having parents with essentially the same living conditions as each other, albeit both would be a bit more lean than when they were together. Child support awards that attempt to keep the custodial parent's home running as comfortably as it was before are unrealistic... since the same income must now cover an additional residence. Doing so impoverishes the non-custodial parent (most often the man), especially if the custodial parent (most often the woman) has no job skills and can earn only a fraction of what her former husband could. I'm sorry if you felt I was degrading men. I love my husband and trust him implicitly, but I am also very happy to know that my children and I could financially survive without him should we ever need to. I'm thrilled that my children never know when their father (my ex) does not pay child support -AND- that I don't have to ask my current husband to pick up the slack. I'm extremely pleased that my second marriage was one based in love and not in need. Had I not been self-reliant when we met, I might always wonder. Beverly "Gini" wrote in message ... In article , Beverly says... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly ==== Nice post, Beverly. Thanks for taking the time. ==== |
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Perhaps if the previous scenario where true and people who give children up
for adoption where required to pay child support, "greedy custodial parents", may not fight quite so hard to keep children from their x-spouse if they could "ADOPT INCOME" !!!!!!! For the record, actually to prevent some of the bashing I am about to receive.. Greedy custodial parents are not those whose children: 1. Have been abandoned by their other parent. 2. Are or have been truly mentally or physically abused by the non-custodial parent. 3. have a willing NON CUSTODIAL parent. A greedy custodial parent is one who knows and fights to maintain the percentage of overnight stays below the number which reduces child support in order to preserve his or her income. Which in turn makes them a stupid greedy custodial parent, because a shared custody situation does not reduce child support payment by 50% but more like 30%. the 20% difference would be the hidden alimony. Therefore the stupid greedy custodial parent would profit most from shared custody. "SCREWEDBYJUDGEGEORGETOOKIEJAMES" wrote in message ... Just a thought!! Why are single women (who decided on adoption withouth the fathers knowledge)not required to pay child support for the next 18 years when they give children up for adoption? Why are Bill and Julie who are 16 and not ready to be parents not required to both pay child support? "Beverly" wrote in message ... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly |
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I'm not sure what the point of the following message is. The central
question in these matters is not DO women have all the post-conception reproductive choices (abortion, giving up newborns at places like hospitals with no questions asked, adoption, keeping the children). The question is SHOULD women have all these choices, and be able to impose the costs of their choices on men who have no option other than to accept whatever unilateral decision the woman makes? And what does it mean to say that "men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them?" Women can do what they want, under the laws that prevail in the U.S. at the present time. They might have to make "wise" choices if they had to bear the financial and other consequences of their unilateral decisions. However, since they are able to shift much of the cost of their unilateral choices to men, they don't have to worry. "Beverly" wrote in message ... Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly |
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"Kenneth S." wrote in message ... I'm not sure what the point of the following message is. The central question in these matters is not DO women have all the post-conception reproductive choices (abortion, giving up newborns at places like hospitals with no questions asked, adoption, keeping the children). The question is SHOULD women have all these choices, and be able to impose the costs of their choices on men who have no option other than to accept whatever unilateral decision the woman makes? And what does it mean to say that "men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them?" Women can do what they want, under the laws that prevail in the U.S. at the present time. They might have to make "wise" choices if they had to bear the financial and other consequences of their unilateral decisions. However, since they are able to shift much of the cost of their unilateral choices to men, they don't have to worry. Unfortunately it is not just men who bear the cost of women's choices regarding children. The Federal and state governments have interceded on behalf of women as a "substitute husband". The government replaces the father as the family protector, takes on the role of economic provider, and wields its clout to obligate tax payers and fathers into financing women's choices. The irony, of course, is women who choose child rearing independence actually become heavily dependent on government for financial security, healthcare benefits, daycare support, job training, equality of pay, affirmative action hiring programs, etc. The woman who once had only one choice, i.e. relying on a man for child rearing economic security, ends up with three choices for economic security - career, the child's father, and government. The long list of programs available only to women provide powerful incentives that motivate women to make the choices they make. Characterizing those choices as "wise" is laughable when the government provides a gender biased economic safety net for women while neglecting to provide an emotional safety net for the fathers and children the government hurts. |
#10
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On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:40:46 -0500, "Kenneth S."
wrote: I'm not sure what the point of the following message is. The central question in these matters is not DO women have all the post-conception reproductive choices (abortion, giving up newborns at places like hospitals with no questions asked, adoption, keeping the children). The question is SHOULD women have all these choices, and be able to impose the costs of their choices on men who have no option other than to accept whatever unilateral decision the woman makes? I believe that there CAN be methods of men making similar, if not the same, choices women are currently singularly empowered with. For instance, my eldest son's father told me from the beginning that he wanted the baby aborted. I chose not to, but knew that it was my choice and life went on for him as THOUGH I had had an abortion. And just as women can walk away at any time, whether it be at birth or later, and place the child up for adoption, I don't see why men can't as well. It would then be the woman's choice whether she chooses to raise/continue to raise the child alone. As with any adoption, all parental rights are terminated. The only thing I think would be impossible to mirror is if the woman wants and abortion and the man does not. That would force a woman to be nothing more than an incubator just as current law forces men into being involuntary ATM's. We can ask what should happen if the choices for abortion or adoption were made by the men and the woman could not support the child and had to turn to the government. Well, I am of the belief that welfare should be a helping hand, not a way of life. If women are unable to care for a child, the loving thing to do would be to give the child up for adoption to parents who can. And what does it mean to say that "men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them?" Women can do what they want, under the laws that prevail in the U.S. at the present time. They might have to make "wise" choices if they had to bear the financial and other consequences of their unilateral decisions. However, since they are able to shift much of the cost of their unilateral choices to men, they don't have to worry. I say women must make wise choices because, although the law compels men to support the children they sired, receiving that support is never a guarantee. Women need to be prepared to do it alone even if they never have to. Women need to make wise choices BECAUSE their choices affect so many people who are unable to make the choices themselves. I get tired of hearing the complaining from women who made the choice to have and keep a baby even though the father made it clear he did not want to when he doesn't pay his support. My biological mother was forced with this decision when she became pregnant with me and her boyfriend ditched her. I am thankful she thought enough of me to give me up for adoption. "Beverly" wrote in message .. . Long gone are the days when sex was reserved for marriage, where women attended college because a) they were not yet engaged/married or b) to become educated enough to have the ability to marry an educated man, and when breaking wedding vows was considered a shameful thing to do. There are essentially two ways to become a single parent; either a child was conceived without the parents being married or a marriage was dissolved. Choices women make are especially important in both situations because men are often not afforded the the breadth of choices that a woman has. While that may give women power, it should also give them the responsibility that comes with that power... and women should be willing to accept that responsibility. Conception when parents are unmarried: Choices a woman has include abortion, giving the baby up for adoption, and keeping the baby. Men have little/no rights in these choices, so women must be wise when making them. When looking at these choices, it is obvious that only 1 out of 3 can cause financial hardship on a woman and can potentially cause a child to live an impoversihed life. When a woman chooses to keep the baby, she must consider whether she is WILLING and ABLE to care for the baby herself even though the laws provide for child support. While a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. Therefore, women should make this choice only if she CAN do it without aid (whether that be child support or welfare)... especially since 2 alternative choices are available to her. What if the parents live together or the father promises to help raise the child both financially and physically? Never put so much trust in what another says he/she will do as to jeapordize your own (and your child's) well-being. This should be true in ALL situations, not just the decision to have a child. We cannot control other people's actions/decisions and 18 years is a very long time. Keeping the baby is a woman's decision and she must be prepared to deal with that decision whether or not another keeps a promise. Conception within a marriage: Given the divorce rate, it is important that both parents be willing and able to take on the role of a single parent before having children. Although divorce is never expected until it is happening, a woman who lives her life as though the husband will always be there to care for and support herself and any children is foolhardy. Although women have entered the workforce in droves, many married women make the mistake of working to supplement her husband's income rather than be a liveable income all by itself... oftentimes settling for dead-end jobs because her income is not considered "as important" as his is. Yes, being there for the child is important and necessary for the parent-child bond, but the child has two parents... neither of which is more important than the other. Understand that when making the CHOICE to be the primary care-giver. If you do not balance your parenting with your ability to earn a living on your own, you are as guilty of putting too much trust in what another says he/she will do as an unmarried mother is. At the very least, an uneducated mother should attempt to further her education once her child is in school. If she is already educated, she should attempt to retain her skills before the child goes to school and (re)enter the workforce once the child does go to school. The goal is the ability to be self-sustaining whether you ever need to be or not. Any husband who prefers you to be a 1950's housewife rather than contributing to the family discretionary income or the couple's retirement income is selfish at best... controlling, perhaps. If you find yourself in a divorce situation and want custody of the children, be prepared to do it yourself. As said previously, a court order for child support is pretty much guaranteed, actually RECEIVING it is not. If you are unprepared to do it yourself, you could be making the CHOICE to impoverish yourself and your children by taking custody. I am reminded of the story in the bible where two women claimed to be a child's mother. The only answer was to split the child in half and give half to each claimant. Well, that would surely kill the child; however, the REAL mother, wishing the best for her child, was willing to let go of her claim in order the child live. While the story ends with the real mother retaining the child, the concept is not so different from two real parents wanting to split a child. A REAL parent should be willing to let go as to do least harm to the child. I'm not saying there aren't situations that make paternal custody more harmful to the child, but a woman's CHOICE to rely upon a man whether married or not for her and her child's support is a bad choice if she wishes to guarantee the children to grow up with her in a happy and healthy environment. In any case, I strongly encourage ALL women to make a choice to be self-reliant. I do not negate the fact that a father should be held financially responsible, IN PART, for his children, but I DO detest women who financially rape a man because she has his child and has made poor choices in life. It is time for women to start making good decisions starting PRE-conception and continuing into marriage or whatever. The best decision of all would be to always strive for self-reliance. You may never need it, but I guarantee you that a marriage is enhanced by the fact that you are together because you want to be rather than because you need him to support you. I guarantee you that your life is enhanced by the self-respect you have. Beverly |
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