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Cutting off ties and no communication?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 22nd 06, 05:50 AM posted to alt.support.single-parents
xkatx
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Posts: 690
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?

Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually, for
some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should I
just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of everything
being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone if and when he
should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever. If
he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly tell him to
please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his email
(which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to the
decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do not care
to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not want
to agree (with him directly) on anything.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because I
really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid that
he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I have no
explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm tell B
directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and have B thinking
about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come over. There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost said
something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any of us, he's
always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to do that are more
important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come close...

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of, "Please
do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so from
now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and without
contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you wouldn't have to
worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do. We don't *need*
you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act towards us. Kids
need stability, and what you are giving them is far from that." - That's
basically what I have wanted to say, but would doing something like this be
totally and completely wrong?

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I don't
recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and when we're
able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a new phone
number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact at all, but I
really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some time. I'm not
going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live my
life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my life the
way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A either, as I
know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a good way as of
late...


  #2  
Old August 22nd 06, 11:02 AM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Moon Shyne
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Posts: 427
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?


Yes. You don't have the right to bar a person from their child's life.

Kat, you have spent an inordinate amount of time posting of the trials and
tribulations of life with Norm - despite that he was your choice, you chose
to have a child with him, and you chose to have a second child with him.

You may want to consider simply living your own life, concentrating your
energies on making a better life for you and your children, and spending far
less energy on someone or something that you will have no control over,
anyway.

He doesn't need an email, phone message, or letter from you stating that he
shouldn't come around - he isn't coming around anyway. So the only thing
contacting him, yet again, would accomplish is that you would continue to
deny to yourself that you are still trying to make things work out, and he
will continue to ignore your efforts, and around and around you go.

Let him live his own life. Let him live with his own decisions. Let him
make things right, or screw them up, all on his own. He's going to, anyway.

And you might want to do the same.

Not trying to slam you, Kat - but I've read your posts from the vantage
point of someone old enough to be your mother...... so for the moment, I'm
sounding it, too.



  #3  
Old August 22nd 06, 09:23 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
xkatx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 690
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?


Yes. You don't have the right to bar a person from their child's life.
Kat, you have spent an inordinate amount of time posting of the trials
and tribulations of life with Norm - despite that he was your choice, you
chose to have a child with him, and you chose to have a second child with
him.

You may want to consider simply living your own life, concentrating your
energies on making a better life for you and your children, and spending
far less energy on someone or something that you will have no control
over, anyway.

He doesn't need an email, phone message, or letter from you stating that
he shouldn't come around - he isn't coming around anyway. So the only
thing contacting him, yet again, would accomplish is that you would
continue to deny to yourself that you are still trying to make things work
out, and he will continue to ignore your efforts, and around and around
you go.

Let him live his own life. Let him live with his own decisions. Let him
make things right, or screw them up, all on his own. He's going to,
anyway.

And you might want to do the same.

Not trying to slam you, Kat - but I've read your posts from the vantage
point of someone old enough to be your mother...... so for the moment, I'm
sounding it, too.


No, I think, deep down, this is almost what I wanted and needed to hear from
someone else on the complete outside who doesn't have a reason to side one
way or the other.
I'm not trying to be rude, testy, whatever, but if I don't have the right to
bar him from the kids, why is it that he can do that for himself? I just
get so tired of seeing the look, mainly on B's face, when HE tells the kid
that he'll be here and then, as usual, I get stuck trying to come up with a
reason as to why. A 5 year old just doesn't understand why he is told one
thing and then the complete opposite happens.
Do I not have the right to limit who comes in and out the house door? Is
keeping the people that should mean the most to the kids away when all they
see is his back turning on them and walking out on them more often than not,
complete with lies right to their faces wrong? I ask because I honestly
don't know.

I'm torn between what I think and what I hear. Our friends - mutual friends
we have - have told me to just shut him out, if he calls, don't answer, if
he shows up, don't answer the door. In ways I do see where this is coming
from, but other ways I don't think this is the right way to deal with it. I
also don't think that him coming and going when he feels like it is fair to
the kids on any level. It's also extremely hard for me to find a way to
move on with my own life with these kinds of actions. He'll come over
whenever it's convenient for him - not sure why. It makes it extremely
difficult as just when *we* (the kids and I) get into the swing of things,
he shows up which then - I know - causes confusion for them.

My family seems to be more willing and able to offer help and support - any
type - when I do not constantly open the door to him when he's good and
ready for a day or two or whatever. Right now, he is of no help or support
to me, or us, and my family is. It's also hard to take what friends and
family say because I feel like they're obviously fairly directly involved in
some ways and I know it's hard for me to make a fair judgement with people
who, I feel, side with me and against him. It just seems to make it so
hard, as even with one of my girl friends, who's boyfriend is Norm's friend
(on occasion, it seems) both of them (friend + her bf) say the same thing.
Even Norm's sister and brother have said that they wouldn't put up with
this, tell him to get lost and slam him with support payments. I don't
really see this as being the answer to any problem at all.


  #4  
Old August 22nd 06, 10:27 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Moon Shyne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 427
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"xkatx" wrote in message
news:TIJGg.14583$365.7602@edtnps89...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?


Yes. You don't have the right to bar a person from their child's life.
Kat, you have spent an inordinate amount of time posting of the trials
and tribulations of life with Norm - despite that he was your choice, you
chose to have a child with him, and you chose to have a second child with
him.

You may want to consider simply living your own life, concentrating your
energies on making a better life for you and your children, and spending
far less energy on someone or something that you will have no control
over, anyway.

He doesn't need an email, phone message, or letter from you stating that
he shouldn't come around - he isn't coming around anyway. So the only
thing contacting him, yet again, would accomplish is that you would
continue to deny to yourself that you are still trying to make things
work out, and he will continue to ignore your efforts, and around and
around you go.

Let him live his own life. Let him live with his own decisions. Let him
make things right, or screw them up, all on his own. He's going to,
anyway.

And you might want to do the same.

Not trying to slam you, Kat - but I've read your posts from the vantage
point of someone old enough to be your mother...... so for the moment,
I'm sounding it, too.


No, I think, deep down, this is almost what I wanted and needed to hear
from someone else on the complete outside who doesn't have a reason to
side one way or the other.
I'm not trying to be rude, testy, whatever, but if I don't have the right
to bar him from the kids, why is it that he can do that for himself?


Because he gets to decide how he wants to live his life - and what
involvement he wants to have with his child. It's no different from my ex,
who stopped seeing the kids over 4 years ago - and it'll continue that way
for as long as he chooses to. I have never barred him from seeing the kids,
nor will I. He does it all on his own, which is just fine. He has only
himself to blame.

Relistically, kids are smart. Mine don't want to see their dad anymore -
they're quite angry with him. Yours will come to their own conclusions in
their own time.

For now, all you can do is love them, be there for them, and love them some
more.

I just
get so tired of seeing the look, mainly on B's face, when HE tells the kid
that he'll be here and then, as usual, I get stuck trying to come up with
a reason as to why.


Don't. You don't need to make excuses for someone else. If B asks what
happened, you can tell him the truth - that you don't know, and that B can
ask him the next time he sees him.

A 5 year old just doesn't understand why he is told one
thing and then the complete opposite happens.


Life isn't fair. He's already learned that, in other areas.


Do I not have the right to limit who comes in and out the house door?


Yes - except when it's the child's other parent and there is no legal reason
to keep them away - like a TRO for abuse, for example.

Now, with B, I think you have a different situation, if I remember your
story - Norm isn't B's father, right?

So he has no legal rights to B, and yes, you can bar him from seeing B or
spending time with him - he isn't B's parent.

A, on the other hand, you have to allow access - though if Norm keeps
disappearing, it's pretty much a moot point. He isn't around for you to bar
access.

Is
keeping the people that should mean the most to the kids away when all
they see is his back turning on them and walking out on them more often
than not, complete with lies right to their faces wrong? I ask because I
honestly don't know.


We all have to decide what we think is morally, ethically and legally right.
Keeping a parent away from their child is wrong on all 3 counts, since there
is no record of abuse. On the other hand, you don't have the bestest track
record in deciding which people should mean the most to the kids, true?
Time for you to break that pattern, Kat - YOU are the one who means the most
to your kids. So quit taking YOU and giving it to people who don't deserve
it, and give it to people who do - B and A.



I'm torn between what I think and what I hear. Our friends - mutual
friends we have - have told me to just shut him out, if he calls, don't
answer, if he shows up, don't answer the door.


And you're not required to answer your phone - it's there for YOUR
convenience, not the caller's convenience. You are also not required to
answer your door when there is an unexpected knock.

But do you really want to teach your children that living their life
includes hiding?



In ways I do see where this is coming
from, but other ways I don't think this is the right way to deal with it.
I also don't think that him coming and going when he feels like it is fair
to the kids on any level.


Probably so - but again, you can't control what he does. All you can do is
set your own, far more healthy example, for your children.

And while you probably don't want to hear this, providing a healthy example
means that you need to stop hooking up with someone, getting pregnant
repeatedly, well before you've actually determined that this is someone who
is good for you, or for your children.

It's time you think about your kids, and make THEM the priority - they
didn't ask for this mess.

SO you need to show them that education is important by getting one of your
own. You need to show them that working hard, and supporting yourself is
important by getting a job and working hard to support them. You need to
show them that even if money is tight, you still have the blessings of a
roof over your head, food on the table, clothes to wear, and enough love to
fill all the hearts.

What you don't need it to bounce from boyfriend to boyfriend, having a
string of children along the way.

It's also extremely hard for me to find a way to
move on with my own life with these kinds of actions.


That's because you're spending all of your energy stressing about him. Let
him go. Let it go.

Tomorrow, wake up. Get the kids up. Working with them, get your house in
order. Then, take them for a walk. Go to a park. Take a ball, and play
catch with them. Start learning to put your energy into your children -
they need it a hell of a lot more than a grown man who can't manage to get
his act together

He'll come over
whenever it's convenient for him - not sure why.


Because you let him. Next time he shows up, grab the kids and head out the
door - and apologize profusely to him as you leave, letting him know that
you were on your way out, and if he would call ahead of time, you'll be sure
to have the children ready.

And then keep walking. Go to the park. Feed the geese. Toss a ball. Push
them on swings. Whatever it is, that makes you spend your energy on your
kids. You owe it to them.

It makes it extremely
difficult as just when *we* (the kids and I) get into the swing of things,
he shows up which then - I know - causes confusion for them.


Move, if you have to. Move in with family if you have to. YOU are
responsible for getting your life together, and you can spend all of your
energy making excuses and blaming it on him, but the reality is that the
only thing stopping you from getting on with your life is you.



My family seems to be more willing and able to offer help and support -
any type - when I do not constantly open the door to him when he's good
and ready for a day or two or whatever.


Take the help. Tell them you need a place for 6-months or 12-months, to
live, while you try to get your life in order.

Then, use that 6-months or 12-months wisely - find a place for you and the
children to live, find yourself a job that pays, get the child support
services on each of your children that you need, apply for food stamps,
welfare, whatever you need to get you through until you can stand on your
own two feet.

But do it.

Right now, he is of no help or support
to me, or us, and my family is. It's also hard to take what friends and
family say because I feel like they're obviously fairly directly involved
in some ways and I know it's hard for me to make a fair judgement with
people who, I feel, side with me and against him.


Then stop talking to them about it. Tell them it's no longer up for
discussion - that you are trying to get your own life in order, and his life
is not something you want to waste your time talking about.

You're not an innocent victim here, and he will control what you do for as
long as you let him.

So how long are you going to let him?

It just seems to make it so
hard, as even with one of my girl friends, who's boyfriend is Norm's
friend (on occasion, it seems) both of them (friend + her bf) say the same
thing. Even Norm's sister and brother have said that they wouldn't put up
with this, tell him to get lost and slam him with support payments. I
don't really see this as being the answer to any problem at all.


So start your life tomorrow - call social services, and start getting all of
the intake appointments and applications done. Your children have fathers,
they need to be helping to support these children. You also have an
obligation to support your children, so get yourself to welfare (or whatever
they call it in Canada) and get the public assistance you need - and make
sure it includes job training.

You will continue to be at the mercy of these sort of men (and admit it,
there's been a series of them, 3 as best as I can tell) - and start working
towards getting yourself in a place where you are no longer at their mercy,
not for money, not for love, not for approval - you need to provide those
things for yourself, first.

Then, you are beholden to no man (or woman)

Now, go clean up your room. Mom says so.





  #5  
Old August 24th 06, 04:11 AM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Alex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?

xkatx wrote:
Would *I* be wrong to do this?


You sound frustrated! 1st thing I'd recommend is send the kids to the
folks for the night and then go and take a nice hot bubble bath. Soak
for a couple of hours if you feel like it. The main point is to relax.
Then re-read this post and the others.

21 years ago I was Norm. Doing the exact ( well pretty close to anyway )
things he's doing. So I may be able to give you some insights to what
may happen in the Future.



I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually, for
some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?


Yes, by all means YOU should cut the ties with Norm. That means No
Overnight visits, no Sex, No meeting for drinks. Coffee/Soda would be
ok if the conversation is about the kids & held is some semi public
place ( ie The park, Coffee Shop etc..) Not in your house. If your
still so much in love with him, meeting in your home could ignite those
feelings again, and if he's like I was, He'll try his damdest to
manipulate you into doing just that. Keeping the house off limits to
him, hopefully, will give you a place ( physically & Mentally ) to
escape to.


Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should I
just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of everything
being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone if and when he
should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever. If
he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly tell him to
please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

You should keep some avenue of communication open with him. I'm not sure
what would work best for you. Pick one, and stick to it. E-mail with a
Phone follow up maybe?? Remember he may be ill-responsible, but he is
still the father of the kids. Pretty soon he will either change and
become more active in the kids life, or he will disappear.

Also do not block any type of communication from Norm to the kids. At
least Holiday & birthday cards. Phone calls...??? Well Use your best
judgement at the time. Kids will remember that kind of stuff and the
tables may turn on you later in life, which you don't want.


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his email
(which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to the
decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do not care
to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not want
to agree (with him directly) on anything.


Let them do the work, That's what they get paid for. Besides They will
go after the most they can get.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because I
really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid that
he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I have no
explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm tell B
directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and have B thinking
about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come over. There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost said
something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any of us, he's
always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to do that are more
important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come close...


Rule #1-- Never bash /put down / Say anything negative to ( or in front
of ) your kids about your Ex. A simple "I don't know" should be your
response. They will learn and you won't be making excuses.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of, "Please
do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so from
now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and without
contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you wouldn't have to
worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do. We don't *need*
you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act towards us. Kids
need stability, and what you are giving them is far from that." - That's
basically what I have wanted to say, but would doing something like this be
totally and completely wrong?

I can see one of three things happening

1 He'll change his way and become more active in the kid's life
2 He'll just blow you off and ignore you and anything you may say and
still hound you.
3 He may disappear and either show up years in the future or not at all.

Is it wrong to say that??? I don't know. You may feel better immediately
afterwards, then feel like a **** later on.

I believe in keeping it simple. Simply tell him " Look..Your not happy,
I'm not happy, the kids are not happy....What's happening has got to
stop. It would may be best if you just left and when your really ready
then call me" Then give him a chance to speak by asking " What do you
think??" If he starts with the "Feel sorry for me routine", then steer
the conversation back on-line.

The way I interpret your thoughts is if you actually said it like that
you would put him on the defensive and nothing good would get
accomplished from then on. The thought is right, just not its
presentation.


I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I don't
recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and when we're
able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a new phone
number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact at all, but I
really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some time. I'm not
going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live my
life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my life the
way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A either, as I
know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a good way as of
late...


Good luck
Alex
  #6  
Old August 24th 06, 09:38 AM posted to alt.support.single-parents
xkatx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 690
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"Alex" wrote in message
...
xkatx wrote:
Would *I* be wrong to do this?


You sound frustrated! 1st thing I'd recommend is send the kids to the
folks for the night and then go and take a nice hot bubble bath. Soak for
a couple of hours if you feel like it. The main point is to relax. Then
re-read this post and the others.


I'm pretty sure I am frustrated... When I was pregnant with A, I had worked
sooooo hard to cut down on my smoking. Did VERY well for cutting down -
went from *almost* a pack a day down to about 8-10 a day... Big difference
from about 20-25 in a single day! Now it's back to how it was, possibly
even worse... It's easily a pack a day, which is disgusting, EXPENSIVE, and
gross. I really do think it's my frustration, as the increase has been over
the last 2ish months.
A bubble bath of sorts sounds, actually, REALLY nice right now. Getting rid
of the kids, though, might be a bit of a challenge... My parents are working
during the week, which makes sleepovers wait until the weekends.
My mom also doesn't really enjoy doing diapers Poor A is still in
diapers lol
Maybe I'll see about Friday or Saturday night and just relax... Get
everything done the rest of this week, or maybe hop in the bath before
bed... Might sleep a bit better, at the least.

21 years ago I was Norm. Doing the exact ( well pretty close to anyway )
things he's doing. So I may be able to give you some insights to what may
happen in the Future.


Big jerk! lol Just buggin'

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?


Yes, by all means YOU should cut the ties with Norm. That means No
Overnight visits, no Sex, No meeting for drinks. Coffee/Soda would be ok
if the conversation is about the kids & held is some semi public place (
ie The park, Coffee Shop etc..) Not in your house. If your still so much
in love with him, meeting in your home could ignite those feelings again,
and if he's like I was, He'll try his damdest to manipulate you into doing
just that. Keeping the house off limits to him, hopefully, will give you
a place ( physically & Mentally ) to escape to.


I do love him, I do care about him. When it comes down to making a choice
between the kids and him, though, the kids are my first priority. They're
not able to make their own decisions, nevermind lives. He is.
I do also know he's fairly miserable lately. I know he is. We have mutual
friends, and every now and then I have short conversations with his sister
or mom. He does talk to his mom on occasion, and the fact that he does not
talk to friends and keeps to himself about things is fairly out of character
for him, except when he's upset or something. Him and his brother went out
one night to walk down the Ave (popular place to just kind of walk and hang
out with all the different, interesting people) and his brother had told me
that he had joked to Norm about picking up girls and all that, and he said
Norm was dead serious when he told his brother that he is not at all
interested in that - he has me and the children.
His brother, I know, is also mutual ground for both of us. His brother, I
know for a fact, is a real dink at times, but his brother has also been in
this same position of being a knob and all that in the past. It's only been
recently that his brother and I have actually communicated, though.

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone if
and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week,
whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly
tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

You should keep some avenue of communication open with him. I'm not sure
what would work best for you. Pick one, and stick to it. E-mail with a
Phone follow up maybe?? Remember he may be ill-responsible, but he is
still the father of the kids. Pretty soon he will either change and
become more active in the kids life, or he will disappear.

Also do not block any type of communication from Norm to the kids. At
least Holiday & birthday cards. Phone calls...??? Well Use your best
judgement at the time. Kids will remember that kind of stuff and the
tables may turn on you later in life, which you don't want.


I really don't know what type of communication would be best... TBH, phone
doesn't work at all, nor does email. It does seem, though, that the best is
in person - there tends to be less anger face to face than over the phone,
and, mind you, the very few, odd times I've called, he just outwardly
refuses to return a call or call if he says he is going to. I've had the
cell phone turned off most of the time, though, which I think would be his
first choice to call as he can block the phone number if calling the cell.
He can't block the call if he calls the house number.
The fact that he doesn't call ever doesn't really bring up phone calls to
the kids. They're kind of not at the age to really care about the phone
anyways... B's 5 and a half, A's 1. B's only interested in calling Grandpa
every time Mythbusters is on


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do not
care to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.


Let them do the work, That's what they get paid for. Besides They will go
after the most they can get.


Yes, it's what they enjoy doing, I'm fairly sure. Really, it has nothing to
do with the money - although money is obviously needed to survive and live.
As far as how much, whatever. Obviously, I'd much rather have this 'family'
back as a family again where this isn't a concern, but that ain't going to
be happening any time soon.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to
his level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I)
because I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells
the kid that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks
and I have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear
Norm tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and
have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come
over. There's been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because
I've almost said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a ****
about any of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other
things to do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've
come close...


Rule #1-- Never bash /put down / Say anything negative to ( or in front
of ) your kids about your Ex. A simple "I don't know" should be your
response. They will learn and you won't be making excuses.


I usually do just give the 'I don't know' line... So often that B said the
other day, "I thought you knew everything! What do you mean you don't know?
That makes no sense." (A line I know I use often enough when it comes to
something like, 'Why on earth did you just do *insert whatever here*? What
do you mean you don't know? How can you not know? That doesn't make any
sense.')
I have always saved my bitching and complaining for when no one's around.
I've found that I've sat down and wrote things down and then crumple or rip
it up after reading it over. If I really do feel the urge to **** and moan
about something (him) and have the urge to say it to someone, it's ALWAYS
been at night, after bed time, when I'm alone and kids are in bed. One
thing I could never understand is bad mouthing the parent within earshot of
the child... What does that tell them if Mommy or Daddy is a total loser? I
know it wouldn't make the kid feel much better about themselves, knowing or
hearing their parent is a total loser or worthless, as that other parent is
still half of them - like it or not.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do not
want to be a part of this family, based on your actions which speak
volumes, so from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like
this, and without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do.
We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act
towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them is far
from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but would doing
something like this be totally and completely wrong?

I can see one of three things happening

1 He'll change his way and become more active in the kid's life
2 He'll just blow you off and ignore you and anything you may say and
still hound you.
3 He may disappear and either show up years in the future or not at all.

Is it wrong to say that??? I don't know. You may feel better immediately
afterwards, then feel like a **** later on.

I believe in keeping it simple. Simply tell him " Look..Your not happy,
I'm not happy, the kids are not happy....What's happening has got to stop.
It would may be best if you just left and when your really ready then call
me" Then give him a chance to speak by asking " What do you think??" If
he starts with the "Feel sorry for me routine", then steer the
conversation back on-line.

The way I interpret your thoughts is if you actually said it like that you
would put him on the defensive and nothing good would get accomplished
from then on. The thought is right, just not its presentation.


He does have a major anger management issue. This is as clear as day. I do
know his limits and I know I have pushed buttons, but I know when to stop
and when enough is enough.
I do get the guilt trip type lines quite often, but even more often is the
lies. Always lies, and to be honest, I really don't know what I should or
shouldn't believe the second it leaves his mouth. I now just assume
everything is a lie, as when I believe something he says, it turns out to be
so far from the truth.
At this point, I'm really not sure if I care what he thinks. I do like the
"you're not happy, I'm not happy, kids aren't happy" part, although I don't
think I care about what he thinks about it. Might just make it a bit more
fair to offer and ask what he thinks, but really, why should the fairness
only go one way?

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and
when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a
new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact
at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I
see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...


Good luck
Alex


lol Thanks, I know I need it right now. It's kind of nice, though, to hear
a perspective more from the other side, as far as how to go about it all. I
don't want to cut him out of my life, and I definitely do not want to cut
him out of B or A's life. I also don't want them to go through all this
turmoil that has been around for a little while now, and I do think it would
be different if they were older. Yes, I know, they'll eventually draw their
own conclusions and make their own minds up - one way or the other - but
right now, I know that's far, far in the future. I just don't see why for
so long they should have to deal with this or be involved with this, because
it will be a fairly long, long time before they can and will make their own
choices...


  #7  
Old August 24th 06, 06:19 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Tiffany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"xkatx" wrote in message
news:eAdHg.18336$tP4.10346@clgrps12...

"Alex" wrote in message
...
xkatx wrote:
Would *I* be wrong to do this?


You sound frustrated! 1st thing I'd recommend is send the kids to the
folks for the night and then go and take a nice hot bubble bath. Soak for
a couple of hours if you feel like it. The main point is to relax. Then
re-read this post and the others.


I'm pretty sure I am frustrated... When I was pregnant with A, I had
worked
sooooo hard to cut down on my smoking. Did VERY well for cutting down -
went from *almost* a pack a day down to about 8-10 a day... Big difference
from about 20-25 in a single day! Now it's back to how it was, possibly
even worse... It's easily a pack a day, which is disgusting, EXPENSIVE,
and
gross. I really do think it's my frustration, as the increase has been
over
the last 2ish months.
A bubble bath of sorts sounds, actually, REALLY nice right now. Getting
rid
of the kids, though, might be a bit of a challenge... My parents are
working
during the week, which makes sleepovers wait until the weekends.
My mom also doesn't really enjoy doing diapers Poor A is still in
diapers lol
Maybe I'll see about Friday or Saturday night and just relax... Get
everything done the rest of this week, or maybe hop in the bath before
bed... Might sleep a bit better, at the least.

21 years ago I was Norm. Doing the exact ( well pretty close to anyway )
things he's doing. So I may be able to give you some insights to what
may
happen in the Future.


Big jerk! lol Just buggin'

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?


Yes, by all means YOU should cut the ties with Norm. That means No
Overnight visits, no Sex, No meeting for drinks. Coffee/Soda would be ok
if the conversation is about the kids & held is some semi public place (
ie The park, Coffee Shop etc..) Not in your house. If your still so
much
in love with him, meeting in your home could ignite those feelings again,
and if he's like I was, He'll try his damdest to manipulate you into
doing
just that. Keeping the house off limits to him, hopefully, will give
you
a place ( physically & Mentally ) to escape to.


I do love him, I do care about him. When it comes down to making a choice
between the kids and him, though, the kids are my first priority. They're
not able to make their own decisions, nevermind lives. He is.
I do also know he's fairly miserable lately. I know he is. We have
mutual
friends, and every now and then I have short conversations with his sister
or mom. He does talk to his mom on occasion, and the fact that he does
not
talk to friends and keeps to himself about things is fairly out of
character
for him, except when he's upset or something. Him and his brother went
out
one night to walk down the Ave (popular place to just kind of walk and
hang
out with all the different, interesting people) and his brother had told
me
that he had joked to Norm about picking up girls and all that, and he said
Norm was dead serious when he told his brother that he is not at all
interested in that - he has me and the children.
His brother, I know, is also mutual ground for both of us. His brother, I
know for a fact, is a real dink at times, but his brother has also been in
this same position of being a knob and all that in the past. It's only
been
recently that his brother and I have actually communicated, though.

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if
and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week,
whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly
tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

You should keep some avenue of communication open with him. I'm not sure
what would work best for you. Pick one, and stick to it. E-mail with a
Phone follow up maybe?? Remember he may be ill-responsible, but he is
still the father of the kids. Pretty soon he will either change and
become more active in the kids life, or he will disappear.

Also do not block any type of communication from Norm to the kids. At
least Holiday & birthday cards. Phone calls...??? Well Use your best
judgement at the time. Kids will remember that kind of stuff and the
tables may turn on you later in life, which you don't want.


I really don't know what type of communication would be best... TBH, phone
doesn't work at all, nor does email. It does seem, though, that the best
is
in person - there tends to be less anger face to face than over the phone,
and, mind you, the very few, odd times I've called, he just outwardly
refuses to return a call or call if he says he is going to. I've had the
cell phone turned off most of the time, though, which I think would be his
first choice to call as he can block the phone number if calling the cell.
He can't block the call if he calls the house number.
The fact that he doesn't call ever doesn't really bring up phone calls to
the kids. They're kind of not at the age to really care about the phone
anyways... B's 5 and a half, A's 1. B's only interested in calling
Grandpa
every time Mythbusters is on


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do
not
care to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.


Let them do the work, That's what they get paid for. Besides They will go
after the most they can get.


Yes, it's what they enjoy doing, I'm fairly sure. Really, it has nothing
to
do with the money - although money is obviously needed to survive and
live.
As far as how much, whatever. Obviously, I'd much rather have this
'family'
back as a family again where this isn't a concern, but that ain't going to
be happening any time soon.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to
his level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I)
because I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells
the kid that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B
asks
and I have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear
Norm tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and
have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and
come
over. There's been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because
I've almost said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a ****
about any of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other
things to do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've
come close...


Rule #1-- Never bash /put down / Say anything negative to ( or in front
of ) your kids about your Ex. A simple "I don't know" should be your
response. They will learn and you won't be making excuses.


I usually do just give the 'I don't know' line... So often that B said the
other day, "I thought you knew everything! What do you mean you don't
know?
That makes no sense." (A line I know I use often enough when it comes to
something like, 'Why on earth did you just do *insert whatever here*?
What
do you mean you don't know? How can you not know? That doesn't make any
sense.')
I have always saved my bitching and complaining for when no one's around.
I've found that I've sat down and wrote things down and then crumple or
rip
it up after reading it over. If I really do feel the urge to **** and
moan
about something (him) and have the urge to say it to someone, it's ALWAYS
been at night, after bed time, when I'm alone and kids are in bed. One
thing I could never understand is bad mouthing the parent within earshot
of
the child... What does that tell them if Mommy or Daddy is a total loser?
I
know it wouldn't make the kid feel much better about themselves, knowing
or
hearing their parent is a total loser or worthless, as that other parent
is
still half of them - like it or not.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do
not
want to be a part of this family, based on your actions which speak
volumes, so from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like
this, and without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as
you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always
do.
We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act
towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them is far
from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but would
doing
something like this be totally and completely wrong?

I can see one of three things happening

1 He'll change his way and become more active in the kid's life
2 He'll just blow you off and ignore you and anything you may say and
still hound you.
3 He may disappear and either show up years in the future or not at all.

Is it wrong to say that??? I don't know. You may feel better immediately
afterwards, then feel like a **** later on.

I believe in keeping it simple. Simply tell him " Look..Your not happy,
I'm not happy, the kids are not happy....What's happening has got to
stop.
It would may be best if you just left and when your really ready then
call
me" Then give him a chance to speak by asking " What do you think??" If
he starts with the "Feel sorry for me routine", then steer the
conversation back on-line.

The way I interpret your thoughts is if you actually said it like that
you
would put him on the defensive and nothing good would get accomplished
from then on. The thought is right, just not its presentation.


He does have a major anger management issue. This is as clear as day. I
do
know his limits and I know I have pushed buttons, but I know when to stop
and when enough is enough.
I do get the guilt trip type lines quite often, but even more often is the
lies. Always lies, and to be honest, I really don't know what I should or
shouldn't believe the second it leaves his mouth. I now just assume
everything is a lie, as when I believe something he says, it turns out to
be so far from the truth.
At this point, I'm really not sure if I care what he thinks. I do like
the "you're not happy, I'm not happy, kids aren't happy" part, although I
don't think I care about what he thinks about it. Might just make it a
bit more fair to offer and ask what he thinks, but really, why should the
fairness only go one way?

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and
when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a
new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact
at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I
see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...


Good luck
Alex


lol Thanks, I know I need it right now. It's kind of nice, though, to
hear a perspective more from the other side, as far as how to go about it
all. I don't want to cut him out of my life, and I definitely do not want
to cut him out of B or A's life. I also don't want them to go through all
this turmoil that has been around for a little while now, and I do think
it would be different if they were older. Yes, I know, they'll eventually
draw their own conclusions and make their own minds up - one way or the
other - but right now, I know that's far, far in the future. I just don't
see why for so long they should have to deal with this or be involved with
this, because it will be a fairly long, long time before they can and will
make their own choices...




If you interfere with the kid and the father, you will have that on your
conscience. If you can live with that, fine. In my situation, I couldn't so
my daughter's father could see her whenever he wanted. No, that wasn't much
but atleast I know in my heart I did nothing to interfere. I sleep at night
knowing he spent as much time with her as he wanted.

You also need to consider that it might be very uncomfortable for him to see
the kids with you around. Maybe that prevents him from coming over. How do
you react when he is there? (No need to answer that, just think about it)

What happen to the father of your other kid?

I feel for your kids, truly. They don't ask to be put in such situations.
But kids rebound from a lot. They have to, don't they?


  #8  
Old August 24th 06, 07:10 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
xkatx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 690
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"Tiffany" wrote in message
news:RclHg.20572$Te.1788@trnddc07...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:eAdHg.18336$tP4.10346@clgrps12...

"Alex" wrote in message
...
xkatx wrote:
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

You sound frustrated! 1st thing I'd recommend is send the kids to the
folks for the night and then go and take a nice hot bubble bath. Soak
for
a couple of hours if you feel like it. The main point is to relax. Then
re-read this post and the others.


I'm pretty sure I am frustrated... When I was pregnant with A, I had
worked
sooooo hard to cut down on my smoking. Did VERY well for cutting down -
went from *almost* a pack a day down to about 8-10 a day... Big
difference
from about 20-25 in a single day! Now it's back to how it was, possibly
even worse... It's easily a pack a day, which is disgusting, EXPENSIVE,
and
gross. I really do think it's my frustration, as the increase has been
over
the last 2ish months.
A bubble bath of sorts sounds, actually, REALLY nice right now. Getting
rid
of the kids, though, might be a bit of a challenge... My parents are
working
during the week, which makes sleepovers wait until the weekends.
My mom also doesn't really enjoy doing diapers Poor A is still in
diapers lol
Maybe I'll see about Friday or Saturday night and just relax... Get
everything done the rest of this week, or maybe hop in the bath before
bed... Might sleep a bit better, at the least.

21 years ago I was Norm. Doing the exact ( well pretty close to anyway )
things he's doing. So I may be able to give you some insights to what
may
happen in the Future.


Big jerk! lol Just buggin'

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately
(actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?


Yes, by all means YOU should cut the ties with Norm. That means No
Overnight visits, no Sex, No meeting for drinks. Coffee/Soda would be
ok
if the conversation is about the kids & held is some semi public place (
ie The park, Coffee Shop etc..) Not in your house. If your still so
much
in love with him, meeting in your home could ignite those feelings
again,
and if he's like I was, He'll try his damdest to manipulate you into
doing
just that. Keeping the house off limits to him, hopefully, will give
you
a place ( physically & Mentally ) to escape to.


I do love him, I do care about him. When it comes down to making a
choice
between the kids and him, though, the kids are my first priority.
They're
not able to make their own decisions, nevermind lives. He is.
I do also know he's fairly miserable lately. I know he is. We have
mutual
friends, and every now and then I have short conversations with his
sister
or mom. He does talk to his mom on occasion, and the fact that he does
not
talk to friends and keeps to himself about things is fairly out of
character
for him, except when he's upset or something. Him and his brother went
out
one night to walk down the Ave (popular place to just kind of walk and
hang
out with all the different, interesting people) and his brother had told
me
that he had joked to Norm about picking up girls and all that, and he
said
Norm was dead serious when he told his brother that he is not at all
interested in that - he has me and the children.
His brother, I know, is also mutual ground for both of us. His brother,
I
know for a fact, is a real dink at times, but his brother has also been
in
this same position of being a knob and all that in the past. It's only
been
recently that his brother and I have actually communicated, though.

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.)
should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if
and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next
week,
whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and
calmly
tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

You should keep some avenue of communication open with him. I'm not sure
what would work best for you. Pick one, and stick to it. E-mail with a
Phone follow up maybe?? Remember he may be ill-responsible, but he is
still the father of the kids. Pretty soon he will either change and
become more active in the kids life, or he will disappear.

Also do not block any type of communication from Norm to the kids. At
least Holiday & birthday cards. Phone calls...??? Well Use your best
judgement at the time. Kids will remember that kind of stuff and the
tables may turn on you later in life, which you don't want.


I really don't know what type of communication would be best... TBH,
phone
doesn't work at all, nor does email. It does seem, though, that the best
is
in person - there tends to be less anger face to face than over the
phone,
and, mind you, the very few, odd times I've called, he just outwardly
refuses to return a call or call if he says he is going to. I've had the
cell phone turned off most of the time, though, which I think would be
his
first choice to call as he can block the phone number if calling the
cell.
He can't block the call if he calls the house number.
The fact that he doesn't call ever doesn't really bring up phone calls to
the kids. They're kind of not at the age to really care about the phone
anyways... B's 5 and a half, A's 1. B's only interested in calling
Grandpa
every time Mythbusters is on


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do
not
care to play these games anymore with him.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Let them do the work, That's what they get paid for. Besides They will
go
after the most they can get.


Yes, it's what they enjoy doing, I'm fairly sure. Really, it has nothing
to
do with the money - although money is obviously needed to survive and
live.
As far as how much, whatever. Obviously, I'd much rather have this
'family'
back as a family again where this isn't a concern, but that ain't going
to
be happening any time soon.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here,
would
that just be downright immature or wrong? I'm not looking to stoop to
his level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I)
because I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells
the kid that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B
asks
and I have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear
Norm tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work
and
have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and
come
over. There's been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue
because
I've almost said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a ****
about any of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other
things to do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've
come close...


Rule #1-- Never bash /put down / Say anything negative to ( or in front
of ) your kids about your Ex. A simple "I don't know" should be your
response. They will learn and you won't be making excuses.


I usually do just give the 'I don't know' line... So often that B said
the
other day, "I thought you knew everything! What do you mean you don't
know?
That makes no sense." (A line I know I use often enough when it comes to
something like, 'Why on earth did you just do *insert whatever here*?
What
do you mean you don't know? How can you not know? That doesn't make any
sense.')
I have always saved my bitching and complaining for when no one's around.
I've found that I've sat down and wrote things down and then crumple or
rip
it up after reading it over. If I really do feel the urge to **** and
moan
about something (him) and have the urge to say it to someone, it's ALWAYS
been at night, after bed time, when I'm alone and kids are in bed. One
thing I could never understand is bad mouthing the parent within earshot
of
the child... What does that tell them if Mommy or Daddy is a total loser?
I
know it wouldn't make the kid feel much better about themselves, knowing
or
hearing their parent is a total loser or worthless, as that other parent
is
still half of them - like it or not.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong? "You clearly do
not
want to be a part of this family, based on your actions which speak
volumes, so from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like
this, and without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as
you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always
do.
We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act
towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them is far
from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but would
doing
something like this be totally and completely wrong?

I can see one of three things happening

1 He'll change his way and become more active in the kid's life
2 He'll just blow you off and ignore you and anything you may say and
still hound you.
3 He may disappear and either show up years in the future or not at
all.

Is it wrong to say that??? I don't know. You may feel better immediately
afterwards, then feel like a **** later on.

I believe in keeping it simple. Simply tell him " Look..Your not happy,
I'm not happy, the kids are not happy....What's happening has got to
stop.
It would may be best if you just left and when your really ready then
call
me" Then give him a chance to speak by asking " What do you think??"
If
he starts with the "Feel sorry for me routine", then steer the
conversation back on-line.

The way I interpret your thoughts is if you actually said it like that
you
would put him on the defensive and nothing good would get accomplished
from then on. The thought is right, just not its presentation.


He does have a major anger management issue. This is as clear as day. I
do
know his limits and I know I have pushed buttons, but I know when to stop
and when enough is enough.
I do get the guilt trip type lines quite often, but even more often is
the lies. Always lies, and to be honest, I really don't know what I
should or shouldn't believe the second it leaves his mouth. I now just
assume everything is a lie, as when I believe something he says, it turns
out to be so far from the truth.
At this point, I'm really not sure if I care what he thinks. I do like
the "you're not happy, I'm not happy, kids aren't happy" part, although I
don't think I care about what he thinks about it. Might just make it a
bit more fair to offer and ask what he thinks, but really, why should the
fairness only go one way?

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and
when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a
new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any
contact
at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite
some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as
I
see no point.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to
live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...

Good luck
Alex


lol Thanks, I know I need it right now. It's kind of nice, though, to
hear a perspective more from the other side, as far as how to go about it
all. I don't want to cut him out of my life, and I definitely do not
want to cut him out of B or A's life. I also don't want them to go
through all this turmoil that has been around for a little while now, and
I do think it would be different if they were older. Yes, I know,
they'll eventually draw their own conclusions and make their own minds
up - one way or the other - but right now, I know that's far, far in the
future. I just don't see why for so long they should have to deal with
this or be involved with this, because it will be a fairly long, long
time before they can and will make their own choices...




If you interfere with the kid and the father, you will have that on your
conscience. If you can live with that, fine. In my situation, I couldn't
so my daughter's father could see her whenever he wanted. No, that wasn't
much but atleast I know in my heart I did nothing to interfere. I sleep at
night knowing he spent as much time with her as he wanted.



Then maybe if there's nothing much to discuss, I'll let it ride. I'll let
him either do his own good or bad - either cause his own positive
relationship or negative one. It appears from what others have said that it
wouldn't be asking or demanding too much for him to give notice - call
before he comes, set a day/time of when abouts he could make it (and
actually show up) or something like that.

You also need to consider that it might be very uncomfortable for him to
see the kids with you around. Maybe that prevents him from coming over.
How do you react when he is there? (No need to answer that, just think
about it)


I did think about that. To be honest, and give him credit, I do think it is
partly because of me, and partly him. I *feel* (I could be wrong, though,
but this is what I feel anyways) that he does see what he is or isn't doing.
Normally A goes running to him - whenever he'd walk in the door from work,
for example, she would run to him and grab him, reach for him if he was
beside me and I was carrying her, and I don't know how many times I felt
like I had to pry her head away from Norm - or B - while we're trying to eat
supper and I'm feeding her. That's not so much anymore, and while visiting
with Grandma and Auntie at their place, B was off playing with the other
kids, I was sitting around visiting with them and the neighbours, with A in
her stroller, and one of the neighbours made a comment about 'Mommy's
Girl' - and Donna said something like, "She's only mommy's girl until daddy
is around" - without thinking I said that's only because she never ever sees
him and it's like a treat when he's around. Convo was dropped immediately,
and yea, I do regret that, but I couldn't handle her choice of words when
she thinks *everything* is fine.
I do think, though, that he is embarrassed of his own actions and doings a
lot of the time. He's kind of more like a follower. If someone says
something, he just goes along with it regardless. If I'm there or not, I
think he feels that he has or will disappoint me, which is why he
disappears. (example: Taking off with the boss to go out drinking in the
afternoon, getting drunk the whole afternoon and then not coming home
because he knows I'd be disappointed.) But for this type of case, yes, I
have expressed being disappointed - going to the bar when you should be at
work? Not coming home? I've told him that I'm alright with him going out
for a few drinks or just hanging out with the guys from work. I've only
asked that he call if he's planning on being home a bit later and bringing
it up maybe the night before (hey, these are the plans, go for a few rounds
of pool and a couple drinks after work.) - OR even calling at the time,
before it's long past when he'd be home. I've even told him that I'd be
less upset/disappointed/angry/whatever if it even came down to him going
after work and calling when he realized he was standing in the pub. I've
tried to make it clear I'd rather know he was somewhere, rather than
wondering. I've even told him that if he calls at let's say 11pm (and he
was supposed to be done work and home at 5) and is drunk and stranded at the
bar, I'd much rather call him a cab, ask a friend to pick him up or come
over to stay with the kids, or if need be, even pack the kids up.
I really do believe it's the disappointing part that he runs from. If he
knows damn well he's messed up, he finds it easier to run and hide than
admit he screwed up. I've tried so hard to be calm and not let it bother
me, and have tried to make it clear that it's alright to mess up - he does
it, I do it, every human makes mistakes or dumb choices - it's not the end
of the world.
I really don't know if I handled that wrong in the past, but I probably did
at first, which didn't help for later times.

What happen to the father of your other kid?


B's father? Not even sure... We don't really talk. I did email him a while
back around when school was out for the summer mainly because I was going to
see if he could spare a bit of extra cash after the summer for when school
starts. I realized the hard way just how expensive school can be, and the
kid doesn't even really need much for school supplies... He does live in the
city, but other than that, I've drifted away from the mutual friends and
places we'd often run into eachother at. We really don't talk much at all.

I feel for your kids, truly. They don't ask to be put in such situations.
But kids rebound from a lot. They have to, don't they?


I guess they do... If Norm calls, then fine. If he stops by unexpectedly or
uninvited, I don't think I'll grab the kids and say we're just walking out
the door (if that isn't the real case) but I won't rearrange existing plans
to his liking. Maybe next time I see him or we talk, I'll let him know
that. Last time we talked, I did tell him that the door is always open to
him, and he said he knows that. Maybe I'll just say if he wants to drop by,
or for us to come over (as he only rides a bike and doesn't drive) I would
appreciate a bit of notice just in case we do have other plans.


  #9  
Old August 26th 06, 06:14 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Kim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?


"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?


You can... But you can't cut his ties to his children...

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should I
just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of everything
being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone if and when he
should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever. If
he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly tell him to
please leave, he's not welcome in the house.


He may not be calling to talk to you... He may be calling to talk to the
children or about the children... Cut all references of your past
relationship with him by all means... Not those to his children... If/When
he calls simply say "hey I'm so glad you called B has missed you" then hand
the phone to B and go about your own business... No reference to your past
relationship as obviously it's over...

I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do not
care to play these games anymore with him.


Don't play the game... No need to put it in writing actions speak louder
than words - Stop playing...


I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.


Good idea... They do know what they are doing

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong?


Yes and yes you are... He could be calling regarding his children... You may
be angry and perhaps have every right to be... But don't hurt your children
and don't put them in the middle...

I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because I
really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid that
he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I have no
explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm tell B
directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and have B
thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come over.


You can always say then next time you are talking to Daddy you should ask
him these questions cause you really don't know... Give him a hug and make
no other references... N at some point will realize that you wont cover
anymore and have to step up or look like an ass in front of B and you didn't
have to do a thing to point it out to the kid...

There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost said
something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any of us,
he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to do that
are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come close...


It's difficult sometimes I admit but I've become very good at this
Practice makes perfect I say... Hell I wont even allow family members to
assault him in front of the children I just simply say "out of respect for
the children please keep your opinion to yourself until they are at least
out of earshot"


Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong?


Yes it would be wrong... I'm sure his children would love him to call at any
time to converse... Stopping by uninvited is unacceptable you may be
otherwise engaged... Ask him to give you at least 24 hours notice before
visiting...


"You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so from
now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and without
contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you wouldn't have to
worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do. We don't *need*
you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act towards us. Kids
need stability, and what you are giving them is far from that." - That's
basically what I have wanted to say, but would doing something like this
be totally and completely wrong?


Yes it would be wrong... Whether you like it or not he's a big part of your
family and always will be no matter what... He will never go away as he is
and always will be the children's father whether he's dad or not is another
thing and it's HIS option not yours...


I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and when
we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a new
phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact at
all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I
see no point.



When you change the phone number you should give it to him and his mom...
They are still the children's family and should still be able to contact the
children IF they choose to do so...

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a good
way as of late...


I've been there and done it... My children are now almost 20 and 16... They
have made up their own minds on what there father is and who their dad is...
My daughter is extremely vocal on her opinion on her father and I've had to
several times tell her to stop the bad mouthing when her brother is
around... My son just simply shrugs his shoulders and doesn't say much... Me
I thank the man daily for the 2 beautiful children he gave me because if he
did nothing else in his past he gave me two of the greatest joys in my life
and for that he's earned my thanks...

It's been a long time for me on my own... My children have a wonderful role
model now he adores the children and has been my best friend for 3 years...

Life is what you make it... This group helped me so much -- Peter helped me
put things in a different perspective God rest his soul I miss him dearly
but what he said makes sense...

Love your children, be there for them, stop making excuses for N make him
accountable for his own actions, be honest with your children my line over
the years simply became "I don't know... You should ask your dad why"

Don't stoop to his level... Get your own life... Get him out of yours...
Move on... What more can I say?

HTH,
Kim


  #10  
Old August 26th 06, 06:34 PM posted to alt.support.single-parents
Kim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cutting off ties and no communication?

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:TIJGg.14583$365.7602@edtnps89...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?


Yes. You don't have the right to bar a person from their child's life.
Kat, you have spent an inordinate amount of time posting of the trials
and tribulations of life with Norm - despite that he was your choice, you
chose to have a child with him, and you chose to have a second child with
him.

You may want to consider simply living your own life, concentrating your
energies on making a better life for you and your children, and spending
far less energy on someone or something that you will have no control
over, anyway.

He doesn't need an email, phone message, or letter from you stating that
he shouldn't come around - he isn't coming around anyway. So the only
thing contacting him, yet again, would accomplish is that you would
continue to deny to yourself that you are still trying to make things
work out, and he will continue to ignore your efforts, and around and
around you go.

Let him live his own life. Let him live with his own decisions. Let him
make things right, or screw them up, all on his own. He's going to,
anyway.

And you might want to do the same.

Not trying to slam you, Kat - but I've read your posts from the vantage
point of someone old enough to be your mother...... so for the moment,
I'm sounding it, too.


No, I think, deep down, this is almost what I wanted and needed to hear
from someone else on the complete outside who doesn't have a reason to
side one way or the other.
I'm not trying to be rude, testy, whatever, but if I don't have the right
to bar him from the kids, why is it that he can do that for himself? I
just get so tired of seeing the look, mainly on B's face, when HE tells
the kid that he'll be here and then, as usual, I get stuck trying to come
up with a reason as to why. A 5 year old just doesn't understand why he
is told one thing and then the complete opposite happens.


N is going to do what he wants... Once more YOU don't have to be accountable
for N's behaviour... Why on earth would you come up with a reason 'why'???
Don't bother... Simply say "Next time you are talking to dad you'll have to
ask him why... I don't know." Give him the hug and find him something else
to occupy his time...

Do I not have the right to limit who comes in and out the house door? Is
keeping the people that should mean the most to the kids away when all
they see is his back turning on them and walking out on them more often
than not, complete with lies right to their faces wrong? I ask because I
honestly don't know.


At some point B himself will know that N is outright lying... Do you really
want to ram it down his little throat? Would it make you feel better
knowing that you are crushing your own child with what *you* think or *you*
see? I'm sure B is a smart cookie... I'm sure after a few no shows and no
calls that he'll catch on... He'll not thank you for allowing him to
*believe* a story that you made up as to 'why' as a matter of fact he will
need one person who WILL be honest and say "I really don't know why dad
didn't show honey and I'm sorry you were hurt - Next time you see dad you
should ask him... Lets go/do/try/watch..." whatever you have at hand to
occupy him... It's so much easier...


I'm torn between what I think and what I hear. Our friends - mutual
friends we have - have told me to just shut him out, if he calls, don't
answer, if he shows up, don't answer the door. In ways I do see where this
is coming from, but other ways I don't think this is the right way to deal
with it.


It's not right for anyone to cut off the children...

I
also don't think that him coming and going when he feels like it is fair
to the kids on any level. It's also extremely hard for me to find a way
to move on with my own life with these kinds of actions. He'll come over
whenever it's convenient for him - not sure why. It makes it extremely
difficult as just when *we* (the kids and I) get into the swing of things,
he shows up which then - I know - causes confusion for them.


It only causes confusion because you allow it to become confusing... LOL I
always welcomed dad's visit... Oh wonderful! How long are you staying?
Great -- I'm going to run to the store, mall, mom's wherever... Give me a
call when your visit's done and I'll be right home Pat the littles on the
head... If you had something planned simply say "we'll do this
tomorrow/later" whatever I'm glad your dad came to visit you! and out the
door goes you... On return I would normally get something like "but I really
wanted to talk to you..." etc... I always said oh ok what's up? did you want
to take the kids for a weekend etc? and I ALWAYS kept my conversation geared
to the children never in the past or in the hopes of regaining a present...
when the convo went that way I outright said "I'm sorry I thought I made it
clear that I'm done with you - I guess not well let me reiterate - I'm not
interested in a relationship with you I'm only interested in your
relationship with your children - Possibly to avoid conflict could you give
us 24 hours notice before your next visit"




My family seems to be more willing and able to offer help and support -
any type - when I do not constantly open the door to him when he's good
and ready for a day or two or whatever. Right now, he is of no help or
support to me, or us, and my family is. It's also hard to take what
friends and family say because I feel like they're obviously fairly
directly involved in some ways and I know it's hard for me to make a fair
judgement with people who, I feel, side with me and against him. It just
seems to make it so hard, as even with one of my girl friends, who's
boyfriend is Norm's friend (on occasion, it seems) both of them (friend +
her bf) say the same thing. Even Norm's sister and brother have said that
they wouldn't put up with this, tell him to get lost and slam him with
support payments. I don't really see this as being the answer to any
problem at all.

What problem? Get on with your life... Get some child support and away you
go...

Ok... I might get a smack for this but here it is... I've read alot of your
posts and what I read into them is that you actually want to be attached to
this guy for whatever reason... From his response he no longer wants to deal
with you or be with you... It sounds like the children are becoming pawns or
tools... You may not even realize how much fuss you are creating in ther
little minds... If you are going to cut ties to him on a personal level
between you and he then do it... Setup a mental scenario where he's a co
worker... One you aren't fond of... Deal with him only when you HAVE to and
be polite... The children are your bosses and they happen to think he's a
wonderful worker so you can't badmouth or bitch about him when they are
around cause then that will earn you bad marks with the boss...



 




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