Cutting off ties and no communication?

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:RYlHg.10588$395.609@edtnps90...

*snipped*

I guess they do... If Norm calls, then fine. If he stops by unexpectedly
or uninvited, I don't think I'll grab the kids and say we're just walking
out the door (if that isn't the real case) but I won't rearrange existing
plans to his liking. Maybe next time I see him or we talk, I'll let him
know that. Last time we talked, I did tell him that the door is always
open to him, and he said he knows that. Maybe I'll just say if he wants
to drop by, or for us to come over (as he only rides a bike and doesn't
drive) I would appreciate a bit of notice just in case we do have other
plans.

I'm sorry I don't think you get it yet... This is about your children and
their relationship or lack thereof with thier father... Perhaps he doesn't
want the three of you over MAYBE HE JUST WANTS TO SEE THE CHILDREN so
instead of including yourself in the picture take yourself OUT... If he
wants to drop by and see the *KIDS* or if he would like you to drop off the
*KIDS* perhaps he can give *YOU* a bit of notice... Perhaps the reason he
doesn't go to the house is because he knows you are going to be there
lurking in the back ground... Maybe all he wants is a bit of time with the
kids... I don't know I just know that if a man was this persistant about
ridding himself of a family then perhaps I'd rise to the occasion and find
something else to do while he visits with his kid(s)...

"Kim" wrote in message
news:4k%Hg.14572$395.9601@edtnps90...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with Norm?

You can... But you can't cut his ties to his children...

No, you're right. I guess it's his business to cut his own ties with them,
which, lately, he's doing a fine job at.


Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone if
and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next week,
whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and calmly
tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

He may not be calling to talk to you... He may be calling to talk to the
children or about the children... Cut all references of your past
relationship with him by all means... Not those to his children... If/When
he calls simply say "hey I'm so glad you called B has missed you" then
hand the phone to B and go about your own business... No reference to your
past relationship as obviously it's over...

He doesn't call period. Bran is the only one capable of holding the phone.
It's funny about the past relationship. He's the one that always brings up
the past - I did this 2 years ago and he can't get over it. I did this last
year some time, and it's still brought up and rubbed in my face.
I've been trying to have it all over and done with. It's funny that as
recent as earlier today after a major incident he told me he loves me.
Bull****, although I did not say anything like I don't believe you, yeah
right, bull****. I also didn't say anything like, "Yes, I know." or "I
believe you, I see it, I love you too." I stayed silent and nodded once
with my eyes still on the road.

I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do not
care to play these games anymore with him.

Don't play the game... No need to put it in writing actions speak louder
than words - Stop playing...

I haven't said or written or anything like that.

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Good idea... They do know what they are doing

Oooh, but he has a plan! Something about not getting a real job again (as
opposed to working with his brother for cash under the table) and moving out
of here and something about Cuba. I had stopped actually listening when I
knew where it was going.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong?

Yes and yes you are... He could be calling regarding his children... You
may be angry and perhaps have every right to be... But don't hurt your
children and don't put them in the middle...

Well, if he's calling regarding the kids, can he not leave a message? He
already made it clear about Bran earlier this afternoon - and right infront
of him.

I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because I
really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid that
he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I have
no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm tell B
directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and have B
thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come over.

You can always say then next time you are talking to Daddy you should ask
him these questions cause you really don't know... Give him a hug and make
no other references... N at some point will realize that you wont cover
anymore and have to step up or look like an ass in front of B and you
didn't have to do a thing to point it out to the kid...

There really isn't a next time. He doesn't call, he doesn't show up.
Perhaps it's better that way for now, and should he call or come, then what?
Remind the kid to ask about something from weeks or months ago?

There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost
said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any of
us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to do
that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come close...


It's difficult sometimes I admit but I've become very good at this
Practice makes perfect I say... Hell I wont even allow family members to
assault him in front of the children I just simply say "out of respect for
the children please keep your opinion to yourself until they are at least
out of earshot"

That's almost always what happens. If it's a phone conversation (with a
friend, my mom, whatever) I just ask if this can be the topic of discussion
later, once I get the kids down for the night. Usually it's fine to rant
and vent later on, and TBH, I do this but only when I know it's more
appropriate. Never out in public (other than my one kinda rude reply to N's
mom after she made a comment, and my reply just kind of slipped off my
tongue) - when she said Amie is only mommy's girl until daddy is around, and
I, yes, without thinking, said, "That's only because she never sees him and
it's like a treat when she does." Only the baby was with me, and Donna and
a pair of neighbours, but still. I didn't want that conversation to go any
further, and I know I shouldn't have said it, but she pushed my buttons in
just the wrong way.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... I'm sure his children would love him to call at
any time to converse... Stopping by uninvited is unacceptable you may be
otherwise engaged... Ask him to give you at least 24 hours notice before
visiting...

A doesn't give a rat about the phone - she'd much rather press random
buttons and suck on the phone. One thing that bothers me a lot is putting a
baby on the phone to hear them breathe or slobber on the phone. Thanks, but
no thanks. The phone is a costly toy if it gets broken. B enjoys the phone
most of the time, and maybe if he does call, I will just pass the phone to B
and go about whatever I was doing or thinking about doing.
The problem with 24 hours notice before coming is that if that is arranged
or something, it never happens. I'll sit at home thinking he'll be here to
visit and waste the entire afternoon or whatever away waiting for nothing.
No show, no call, nothing.

"You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so from
now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and without
contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you wouldn't have to
worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do. We don't *need*
you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act towards us. Kids
need stability, and what you are giving them is far from that." - That's
basically what I have wanted to say, but would doing something like this
be totally and completely wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... Whether you like it or not he's a big part of
your family and always will be no matter what... He will never go away as
he is and always will be the children's father whether he's dad or not is
another thing and it's HIS option not yours...

No, I have my family with my children, parents, brothers, cousins, aunts and
uncles. I really don't care, he's not part of my family one bit, as how I
was raised, family doesn't act like this, now the kids, that's different, I
suppose. Right now he's nothing more than a missing link in THEIR family.

I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a blocked
phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange number I
don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone. If and
when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and get a
new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any contact
at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for quite some
time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I move, as I
see no point.


When you change the phone number you should give it to him and his mom...
They are still the children's family and should still be able to contact
the children IF they choose to do so...

Well, maybe then I'll get the kids their own phone number lol
Then they can have whichever friends/family they want to contact them on
*their* phone line, not mine? Then it's a dedicated kids' phone line for
the use of the kids LOL j/k

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...

I've been there and done it... My children are now almost 20 and 16...
They have made up their own minds on what there father is and who their
dad is... My daughter is extremely vocal on her opinion on her father and
I've had to several times tell her to stop the bad mouthing when her
brother is around... My son just simply shrugs his shoulders and doesn't
say much... Me I thank the man daily for the 2 beautiful children he gave
me because if he did nothing else in his past he gave me two of the
greatest joys in my life and for that he's earned my thanks...

It's been a long time for me on my own... My children have a wonderful
role model now he adores the children and has been my best friend for 3
years...

Life is what you make it... This group helped me so much -- Peter helped
me put things in a different perspective God rest his soul I miss him
dearly but what he said makes sense...

Love your children, be there for them, stop making excuses for N make him
accountable for his own actions, be honest with your children my line over
the years simply became "I don't know... You should ask your dad why"

Don't stoop to his level... Get your own life... Get him out of yours...
Move on... What more can I say?

HTH,
Kim

No, that's about it. It does help. I know what others say is often fairly
good advice, one way or the other.

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:zi5Ig.17544$365.16254@edtnps89...

"Kim" wrote in message
news:4k%Hg.14572$395.9601@edtnps90...

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:F2wGg.14547$tP4.13528@clgrps12...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately (actually,
for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the ties with
Norm?

You can... But you can't cut his ties to his children...

No, you're right. I guess it's his business to cut his own ties with
them, which, lately, he's doing a fine job at.

My point exactly... He'll do the damage all on his own... These are his
choices...



Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.) should
I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next
week, whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and
calmly tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

He may not be calling to talk to you... He may be calling to talk to the
children or about the children... Cut all references of your past
relationship with him by all means... Not those to his children...
If/When he calls simply say "hey I'm so glad you called B has missed you"
then hand the phone to B and go about your own business... No reference
to your past relationship as obviously it's over...

He doesn't call period. Bran is the only one capable of holding the
phone.
It's funny about the past relationship. He's the one that always brings
up the past - I did this 2 years ago and he can't get over it. I did this
last year some time, and it's still brought up and rubbed in my face.
I've been trying to have it all over and done with. It's funny that as
recent as earlier today after a major incident he told me he loves me.
Bull****, although I did not say anything like I don't believe you, yeah
right, bull****. I also didn't say anything like, "Yes, I know." or "I
believe you, I see it, I love you too." I stayed silent and nodded once
with my eyes still on the road.

Don't let him rub... Simply ignore him - walk away... What was the major
incident? Was he over to visit the children or should I say A?


I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do
not care to play these games anymore with him.

Don't play the game... No need to put it in writing actions speak louder
than words - Stop playing...

I haven't said or written or anything like that.

I'm actually very glad to hear that

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Good idea... They do know what they are doing

Oooh, but he has a plan! Something about not getting a real job again (as
opposed to working with his brother for cash under the table) and moving
out of here and something about Cuba. I had stopped actually listening
when I knew where it was going.


Yeah most people say crap like that when they are concerned with child
support payments... Mine even tried to say that he couldn't pay cause of
hardship reasons... I cut that right down to no matter how hard up you are
your children need to eat


If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here, would
that just be downright immature or wrong?

Yes and yes you are... He could be calling regarding his children... You
may be angry and perhaps have every right to be... But don't hurt your
children and don't put them in the middle...

Well, if he's calling regarding the kids, can he not leave a message? He
already made it clear about Bran earlier this afternoon - and right
infront of him.


What did he do to B??? What was said??? Yes he can leave a message that's
a good plan as well... Leave a message and I'll get back to you


I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because
I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid
that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I
have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm
tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and have
B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and come
over.

You can always say then next time you are talking to Daddy you should ask
him these questions cause you really don't know... Give him a hug and
make no other references... N at some point will realize that you wont
cover anymore and have to step up or look like an ass in front of B and
you didn't have to do a thing to point it out to the kid...

There really isn't a next time. He doesn't call, he doesn't show up.
Perhaps it's better that way for now, and should he call or come, then
what? Remind the kid to ask about something from weeks or months ago?


Ok so get a TIME... Alright so 1pm tomorrow? If you are going to be late
please let us know... If he doesn't call and then doesn't show at 130 screw
him and go about your business... No need to remind the kid... After several
times of you saying "ask dad" then at some point he'll remember himself...
Then again if N said something negative to B then perhaps it's time to
gently cut the ties between B and N...

There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost
said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any of
us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to do
that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come close...


It's difficult sometimes I admit but I've become very good at this
Practice makes perfect I say... Hell I wont even allow family members to
assault him in front of the children I just simply say "out of respect
for the children please keep your opinion to yourself until they are at
least out of earshot"

That's almost always what happens. If it's a phone conversation (with a
friend, my mom, whatever) I just ask if this can be the topic of
discussion later, once I get the kids down for the night. Usually it's
fine to rant and vent later on, and TBH, I do this but only when I know
it's more appropriate. Never out in public (other than my one kinda rude
reply to N's mom after she made a comment, and my reply just kind of
slipped off my tongue) - when she said Amie is only mommy's girl until
daddy is around, and I, yes, without thinking, said, "That's only because
she never sees him and it's like a treat when she does." Only the baby
was with me, and Donna and a pair of neighbours, but still. I didn't want
that conversation to go any further, and I know I shouldn't have said it,
but she pushed my buttons in just the wrong way.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... I'm sure his children would love him to call at
any time to converse... Stopping by uninvited is unacceptable you may be
otherwise engaged... Ask him to give you at least 24 hours notice before
visiting...

A doesn't give a rat about the phone - she'd much rather press random
buttons and suck on the phone. One thing that bothers me a lot is putting
a baby on the phone to hear them breathe or slobber on the phone. Thanks,
but no thanks. The phone is a costly toy if it gets broken. B enjoys the
phone most of the time, and maybe if he does call, I will just pass the
phone to B and go about whatever I was doing or thinking about doing.
The problem with 24 hours notice before coming is that if that is arranged
or something, it never happens. I'll sit at home thinking he'll be here
to visit and waste the entire afternoon or whatever away waiting for
nothing. No show, no call, nothing.


No need to waste any time... This isn't an afternoon deal this is a give me
a specific time 1pm etc... And say if you run into trouble let me know --
Courtesy and common sense...


"You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so
from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and
without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you wouldn't
have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always do. We
don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us and act
towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them is far
from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but would
doing something like this be totally and completely wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... Whether you like it or not he's a big part of
your family and always will be no matter what... He will never go away as
he is and always will be the children's father whether he's dad or not is
another thing and it's HIS option not yours...

No, I have my family with my children, parents, brothers, cousins, aunts
and uncles. I really don't care, he's not part of my family one bit, as
how I was raised, family doesn't act like this, now the kids, that's
different, I suppose. Right now he's nothing more than a missing link in
THEIR family.


Good thing


I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange
number I don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone.
If and when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and
get a new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any
contact at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for
quite some time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until I
move, as I see no point.


When you change the phone number you should give it to him and his mom...
They are still the children's family and should still be able to contact
the children IF they choose to do so...

Well, maybe then I'll get the kids their own phone number lol
Then they can have whichever friends/family they want to contact them on
*their* phone line, not mine? Then it's a dedicated kids' phone line for
the use of the kids LOL j/k

No need... Unless he's going to foot the bill...

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to live
my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from living my
life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this for B and A
either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and definitely not in a
good way as of late...

I've been there and done it... My children are now almost 20 and 16...
They have made up their own minds on what there father is and who their
dad is... My daughter is extremely vocal on her opinion on her father and
I've had to several times tell her to stop the bad mouthing when her
brother is around... My son just simply shrugs his shoulders and doesn't
say much... Me I thank the man daily for the 2 beautiful children he gave
me because if he did nothing else in his past he gave me two of the
greatest joys in my life and for that he's earned my thanks...

It's been a long time for me on my own... My children have a wonderful
role model now he adores the children and has been my best friend for 3
years...

Life is what you make it... This group helped me so much -- Peter helped
me put things in a different perspective God rest his soul I miss him
dearly but what he said makes sense...

Love your children, be there for them, stop making excuses for N make him
accountable for his own actions, be honest with your children my line
over the years simply became "I don't know... You should ask your dad
why"

Don't stoop to his level... Get your own life... Get him out of yours...
Move on... What more can I say?

HTH,
Kim

No, that's about it. It does help. I know what others say is often
fairly good advice, one way or the other.

"Kim" wrote in message ...

"xkatx" wrote in message ...

"Kim" wrote in message ...

"xkatx" wrote in message ...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately
(actually, for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the
ties with Norm?

You can... But you can't cut his ties to his children...

No, you're right. I guess it's his business to cut his own ties with
them, which, lately, he's doing a fine job at.

My point exactly... He'll do the damage all on his own... These are his
choices...

Then would this be his problem or the problem of the kids? In the long run,
it does seem that it tends to be (in the case of a negligent parent -
whatever you may want to call them) that the kid grows up a bit and in time
has a fairly negative attitude towards that other parent. Is this normal?
Healthy?

Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.)
should I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next
week, whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply and
calmly tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

He may not be calling to talk to you... He may be calling to talk to the
children or about the children... Cut all references of your past
relationship with him by all means... Not those to his children...
If/When he calls simply say "hey I'm so glad you called B has missed
you" then hand the phone to B and go about your own business... No
reference to your past relationship as obviously it's over...

He doesn't call period. Bran is the only one capable of holding the
phone.
It's funny about the past relationship. He's the one that always brings
up the past - I did this 2 years ago and he can't get over it. I did
this last year some time, and it's still brought up and rubbed in my
face.
I've been trying to have it all over and done with. It's funny that as
recent as earlier today after a major incident he told me he loves me.
Bull****, although I did not say anything like I don't believe you, yeah
right, bull****. I also didn't say anything like, "Yes, I know." or "I
believe you, I see it, I love you too." I stayed silent and nodded once
with my eyes still on the road.

Don't let him rub... Simply ignore him - walk away... What was the major
incident? Was he over to visit the children or should I say A?

I had to practically beg him last night to stay over here ONLY because I had
nowhere else to turn. I ended up spending the evening in the hospital -
yes, with both the kids - due to some MAJOR stomach pains that had happened
the night before, yet, and as well as last night. It didn't go away last
night after trying to rest and sleep it off, so I gave up and went down to
the hospital to get it checked out. After a few hours there, I ended up
telling the nurses that I really did have to go - what difference did it
make if I was sitting in a hospital bed or at home doing nothing - at least
at home, as it was nearly 10pm, I could put the kids to bed, as both had
already missed regular bed time and were cranky and bored with 'sitting
nice'. They let me leave with a perscription for a bladder infection, I
believe, and said that they were waiting for some other results (doc was
unavailable due to an emergency C-section, understandable) and they said if
the other results came in and something was wrong, they would call me. I
swung by N's place, hoping he might be home, and hoping he'd be willing to
just crash on my couch just in case. I was thinking, with my luck, the
hospital would call back and tell me I needed to get back there ASAP, and
with my horrible luck, it would be at 1 or 2am, meaning I'd have to pack up
sleeping kids to go spend more time in the hospital. I figured if he was
there, at least if it came down to it, he'd be able to stay with the kids
sleeping, sleep himself, and I could leave if need be.
No call, so in the morning, I was driving him back home. The kids and I had
a wedding to go to, and he started bitching about something from a few years
back. He then threw in my face that if I wanted my computer back so badly
(the one that he has) then to take my ring and pawn it off because it's
worth more money than the computer by far. I, of course, got upset, and I
took the ring off and told him that is just low and mean, and that he knew
damn well that I would never ever pawn that ring, or even think about it. I
went to hand it to him and told him that I'd rather he keep it than me keep
it, as if he thought this ring meant so little to me, then he could hold on
to it. He grabbed it out of my hand and threw it out the car window right
then and there.
I obviously got upset about it, and my reaction was to slam on the brakes.
He freaked out (and I do think he then realized as soon as he did it that it
was very inappropriate and that he was wrong to do that) and as I was
stopping he said (somewhat still hyped up) that he'd get out and find it,
opened the door while the car was still moving and jumped out and walked to
the area that it *could* have been. I turned around, got out of the car,
and in a couple minutes (after he took a quick look then stood there just
staring out into the road on the edge of the curb, then ripped up the letter
from family maintenance about his appointment and meeting with them) lit a
smoke and I asked if he wouldn't mind waiting for a minute so I could just
take a look around for it since he was having a smoke anyways. He basically
demanded me to just drive him home, so I got in, was tempted to tell him to
get the hell out and walk, but wasn't in the mood to act like that and cause
more of a scene, so I took him home. I did go back down that way on my way
home, hoping the needle in a haystack isn't as rough as it seems to be, but
had no luck. Went back again later in the evening to look again, but again,
no luck... Maybe this was a good thing...

I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come to
the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I do
not care to play these games anymore with him.

Don't play the game... No need to put it in writing actions speak louder
than words - Stop playing...

I haven't said or written or anything like that.

I'm actually very glad to hear that

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I am
going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do not
want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Good idea... They do know what they are doing

Oooh, but he has a plan! Something about not getting a real job again
(as opposed to working with his brother for cash under the table) and
moving out of here and something about Cuba. I had stopped actually
listening when I knew where it was going.


Yeah most people say crap like that when they are concerned with child
support payments... Mine even tried to say that he couldn't pay cause of
hardship reasons... I cut that right down to no matter how hard up you are
your children need to eat

I don't even bother saying something like that. He had, a little while ago,
said he'd give me X amount of money. I told him fine, that sounds fair, and
IMO, it was a fair amount, but I had told him that this is something we
should sit down, like adults AND parents, and discuss as human beings, not
be standing in a hallway, both fairly upset for whatever reason. I also
told him that if and when he comes up with that money, then good, but since
I hadn't seen much from him in now almost 2 months, I wasn't just going to
agree and take his word for it. He knows that the baby needs diapers, milk,
whatever. Figuring that one out doesn't take years and years worth of
extensive research.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here,
would that just be downright immature or wrong?

Yes and yes you are... He could be calling regarding his children... You
may be angry and perhaps have every right to be... But don't hurt your
children and don't put them in the middle...

Well, if he's calling regarding the kids, can he not leave a message? He
already made it clear about Bran earlier this afternoon - and right
infront of him.


What did he do to B??? What was said??? Yes he can leave a message
that's a good plan as well... Leave a message and I'll get back to you

In the car, both kids in the back seat, him beside me, he said that B is the
reason for all my problems, he causes all MY problems.
Alright, my kid is no angel. He's not perfect by any stretch of the
imagination, BUT, he is also *definitely* no better or worse behaved than
any other 5 year old. He's definitely not perfect, but he's definitely not
a horribly behaved child. He listens and behaves appropriately for the most
part, and then again, HE'S 5 YEARS OLD. Tell me your 5 year old was
absolutely perfect and I'll call you a liar. I'd, by no means, say he was a
horrible child. I sometimes think N believes that he's the worst behaved
child for miles. I think Norm compares Bran to himself - or better yet, how
he saw himself at that age - and because his mom had taught him, "Listen or
lickin'" type idea, Norm *thinks* he was the best behaved 5 year old around.
His own mother will tell you herself that he was by no means perfect, but by
no means horrible. Again, your average 5 year old boy.
I think I'll change my answering machine to be more appropriate... It's
currently (and has been for over a year) You've reached the *my last name* -
*his last name* residence (due to me and B having my last name, him having
his last name and A having my last name hyphenated with his) - maybe I
should just change it to something like, "We're all busy, leave a message!"
and make it as bubbly and happy as possible lol

I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I) because
I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells the kid
that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B asks and I
have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to hear Norm
tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after work and
have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off work and
come over.

You can always say then next time you are talking to Daddy you should
ask him these questions cause you really don't know... Give him a hug
and make no other references... N at some point will realize that you
wont cover anymore and have to step up or look like an ass in front of B
and you didn't have to do a thing to point it out to the kid...

There really isn't a next time. He doesn't call, he doesn't show up.
Perhaps it's better that way for now, and should he call or come, then
what? Remind the kid to ask about something from weeks or months ago?


Ok so get a TIME... Alright so 1pm tomorrow? If you are going to be late
please let us know... If he doesn't call and then doesn't show at 130
screw him and go about your business... No need to remind the kid... After
several times of you saying "ask dad" then at some point he'll remember
himself... Then again if N said something negative to B then perhaps it's
time to gently cut the ties between B and N...

BTDT for setting times. I've said what time, he says I don't know. I've
said I need to know an approximate time to work with, like, approx. 6pm.
He'll say, fine, 6pm. I've often said, "Sounds good. Talk to you/see you
then! If you don't call by 6:30 or so, did you want me to try giving you a
call?" and he says that sounds good (as I do know that sometimes we just get
busy) Yup, every single time I go about doing something else. When I
dropped him off today and headed off to this stupid wedding for my cousin,
he said he'd call me some time around or after supper time. I waited until
about 6:30 or so, then we went out. No calls on the cell while we were out,
nor was there any calls on the phone when we came back. I'm going to bed
fairly soon, after I return a few calls from earlier this afternoon. I'm
not waiting up, as usual, and tomorrow I promised Bran we'd go to Grandma
and Grandpa's (my parents) house, since I really was not in the mood to go
to my grandma's (Baba's) house after the church part of this wedding... He
was a bit upset, but I bribed him with McDonald's A $5 Happy Meal was
less time, gas and effort than driving all the way across the city to my
grandma's house for an hour of visiting before everyone went for the wedding
supper part and we'd have to go home anyways (I was told no children
allowed, but this, I guess, was just for our side - my cousin's side - of
the family, so I couldn't go even if I had wanted to as I had no babysitter
or anything)

There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost
said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any
of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other things to
do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come
close...


It's difficult sometimes I admit but I've become very good at this
Practice makes perfect I say... Hell I wont even allow family members to
assault him in front of the children I just simply say "out of respect
for the children please keep your opinion to yourself until they are at
least out of earshot"

That's almost always what happens. If it's a phone conversation (with a
friend, my mom, whatever) I just ask if this can be the topic of
discussion later, once I get the kids down for the night. Usually it's
fine to rant and vent later on, and TBH, I do this but only when I know
it's more appropriate. Never out in public (other than my one kinda rude
reply to N's mom after she made a comment, and my reply just kind of
slipped off my tongue) - when she said Amie is only mommy's girl until
daddy is around, and I, yes, without thinking, said, "That's only because
she never sees him and it's like a treat when she does." Only the baby
was with me, and Donna and a pair of neighbours, but still. I didn't
want that conversation to go any further, and I know I shouldn't have
said it, but she pushed my buttons in just the wrong way.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... I'm sure his children would love him to call at
any time to converse... Stopping by uninvited is unacceptable you may be
otherwise engaged... Ask him to give you at least 24 hours notice before
visiting...

A doesn't give a rat about the phone - she'd much rather press random
buttons and suck on the phone. One thing that bothers me a lot is
putting a baby on the phone to hear them breathe or slobber on the phone.
Thanks, but no thanks. The phone is a costly toy if it gets broken. B
enjoys the phone most of the time, and maybe if he does call, I will just
pass the phone to B and go about whatever I was doing or thinking about
doing.
The problem with 24 hours notice before coming is that if that is
arranged or something, it never happens. I'll sit at home thinking he'll
be here to visit and waste the entire afternoon or whatever away waiting
for nothing. No show, no call, nothing.


No need to waste any time... This isn't an afternoon deal this is a give
me a specific time 1pm etc... And say if you run into trouble let me
know -- Courtesy and common sense...

Those last few words he lacks... He does not show an iota of courtesy and I
think he often lacks common sense...

"You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so
from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and
without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always
do. We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us
and act towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them
is far from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but
would doing something like this be totally and completely wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... Whether you like it or not he's a big part of
your family and always will be no matter what... He will never go away
as he is and always will be the children's father whether he's dad or
not is another thing and it's HIS option not yours...

No, I have my family with my children, parents, brothers, cousins, aunts
and uncles. I really don't care, he's not part of my family one bit, as
how I was raised, family doesn't act like this, now the kids, that's
different, I suppose. Right now he's nothing more than a missing link in
THEIR family.


Good thing


I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange
number I don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone.
If and when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies and
get a new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have any
contact at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility for
quite some time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number until
I move, as I see no point.


When you change the phone number you should give it to him and his
mom... They are still the children's family and should still be able to
contact the children IF they choose to do so...

Well, maybe then I'll get the kids their own phone number lol
Then they can have whichever friends/family they want to contact them on
*their* phone line, not mine? Then it's a dedicated kids' phone line for
the use of the kids LOL j/k

No need... Unless he's going to foot the bill...

LOL Then I guess I'll work on him helping out with diapers first before
trying to get greedy haha

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to
live my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from
living my life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this
for B and A either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and
definitely not in a good way as of late...

I've been there and done it... My children are now almost 20 and 16...
They have made up their own minds on what there father is and who their
dad is... My daughter is extremely vocal on her opinion on her father
and I've had to several times tell her to stop the bad mouthing when her
brother is around... My son just simply shrugs his shoulders and doesn't
say much... Me I thank the man daily for the 2 beautiful children he
gave me because if he did nothing else in his past he gave me two of the
greatest joys in my life and for that he's earned my thanks...

It's been a long time for me on my own... My children have a wonderful
role model now he adores the children and has been my best friend for 3
years...

Life is what you make it... This group helped me so much -- Peter helped
me put things in a different perspective God rest his soul I miss him
dearly but what he said makes sense...

Love your children, be there for them, stop making excuses for N make
him accountable for his own actions, be honest with your children my
line over the years simply became "I don't know... You should ask your
dad why"

Don't stoop to his level... Get your own life... Get him out of yours...
Move on... What more can I say?

HTH,
Kim

No, that's about it. It does help. I know what others say is often
fairly good advice, one way or the other.

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:Wg9Ig.17930$Ch.10848@clgrps13...

"Kim" wrote in message ...

"xkatx" wrote in message ...

"Kim" wrote in message ...

"xkatx" wrote in message ...
Would *I* be wrong to do this?

I'm sure I've posted the basic idea of what's going on lately
(actually, for some time now) and would I be in the wrong to cut the
ties with Norm?

You can... But you can't cut his ties to his children...

No, you're right. I guess it's his business to cut his own ties with
them, which, lately, he's doing a fine job at.

My point exactly... He'll do the damage all on his own... These are his
choices...

Then would this be his problem or the problem of the kids? In the long
run, it does seem that it tends to be (in the case of a negligent parent -
whatever you may want to call them) that the kid grows up a bit and in
time has a fairly negative attitude towards that other parent. Is this
normal? Healthy?

It's his CHOICE... Define normal? "normal" doesn't exist! Would it be
normal for a person who has had nothing but a negative impact from a
specific person to back off and have a negative attitude? I'd say YES -- Is
it healthy? Once more I'd say YES it's normal to have negative feelings for
someone who treats you in a negative manner... That's common sense...



Since he doesn't return messages (phone calls, emails, IMs, etc.)
should I just from now on cut all the ties with him? I'm just sick of
everything being on *his* terms. I'm thinking to not answer the phone
if and when he should happen to call - either tonight, tomorrow, next
week, whenever. If he comes to the door, not let him in and simply
and calmly tell him to please leave, he's not welcome in the house.

He may not be calling to talk to you... He may be calling to talk to
the children or about the children... Cut all references of your past
relationship with him by all means... Not those to his children...
If/When he calls simply say "hey I'm so glad you called B has missed
you" then hand the phone to B and go about your own business... No
reference to your past relationship as obviously it's over...

He doesn't call period. Bran is the only one capable of holding the
phone.
It's funny about the past relationship. He's the one that always brings
up the past - I did this 2 years ago and he can't get over it. I did
this last year some time, and it's still brought up and rubbed in my
face.
I've been trying to have it all over and done with. It's funny that as
recent as earlier today after a major incident he told me he loves me.
Bull****, although I did not say anything like I don't believe you, yeah
right, bull****. I also didn't say anything like, "Yes, I know." or "I
believe you, I see it, I love you too." I stayed silent and nodded once
with my eyes still on the road.

Don't let him rub... Simply ignore him - walk away... What was the major
incident? Was he over to visit the children or should I say A?

I had to practically beg him last night to stay over here ONLY because I
had nowhere else to turn. I ended up spending the evening in the
hospital - yes, with both the kids - due to some MAJOR stomach pains that
had happened the night before, yet, and as well as last night.

What happened to the family that would help you? Nowhere else to turn?
Hmmmmmmm find somewhere else... Why didn't you just leave him home with the
kids? I'm sorry but you need to stand on your own 2 feet... Pretend he's
dead -- Live for yourself...

The messages you guys sent those kids are conflicting... I mean sheesh what
a disaster...

It didn't go away last
night after trying to rest and sleep it off, so I gave up and went down to
the hospital to get it checked out. After a few hours there, I ended up
telling the nurses that I really did have to go - what difference did it
make if I was sitting in a hospital bed or at home doing nothing - at
least at home, as it was nearly 10pm, I could put the kids to bed, as both
had already missed regular bed time and were cranky and bored with
'sitting nice'. They let me leave with a perscription for a bladder
infection, I believe, and said that they were waiting for some other
results (doc was unavailable due to an emergency C-section,
understandable) and they said if the other results came in and something
was wrong, they would call me. I swung by N's place, hoping he might be
home, and hoping he'd be willing to just crash on my couch just in case.
I was thinking, with my luck, the hospital would call back and tell me I
needed to get back there ASAP, and with my horrible luck, it would be at 1
or 2am, meaning I'd have to pack up sleeping kids to go spend more time in
the hospital. I figured if he was there, at least if it came down to it,
he'd be able to stay with the kids sleeping, sleep himself, and I could
leave if need be.
No call, so in the morning, I was driving him back home. The kids and I
had a wedding to go to, and he started bitching about something from a few
years back. He then threw in my face that if I wanted my computer back so
badly (the one that he has) then to take my ring and pawn it off because
it's worth more money than the computer by far. I, of course, got upset,
and I took the ring off and told him that is just low and mean, and that
he knew damn well that I would never ever pawn that ring, or even think
about it. I went to hand it to him and told him that I'd rather he keep
it than me keep it, as if he thought this ring meant so little to me, then
he could hold on to it. He grabbed it out of my hand and threw it out the
car window right then and there.

So with the kids in the car you guys are having, obviously, a heated
discussion about your past... Slamming on breaks and so on -- Downright
foolish...

I obviously got upset about it, and my reaction was to slam on the brakes.
He freaked out (and I do think he then realized as soon as he did it that
it was very inappropriate and that he was wrong to do that) and as I was
stopping he said (somewhat still hyped up) that he'd get out and find it,
opened the door while the car was still moving and jumped out and walked
to the area that it *could* have been. I turned around, got out of the
car, and in a couple minutes (after he took a quick look then stood there
just staring out into the road on the edge of the curb, then ripped up the
letter from family maintenance about his appointment and meeting with
them) lit a smoke and I asked if he wouldn't mind waiting for a minute so
I could just take a look around for it since he was having a smoke
anyways. He basically demanded me to just drive him home, so I got in,
was tempted to tell him to get the hell out and walk, but wasn't in the
mood to act like that and cause more of a scene, so I took him home.

You should never have had him with you in the first place... You brought all
this on -- What a shame you drug the kids into the middle of this Poor
darlings

I did go back down that way on my way
home, hoping the needle in a haystack isn't as rough as it seems to be,
but had no luck. Went back again later in the evening to look again, but
again, no luck... Maybe this was a good thing...



I was thinking of maybe typing out an email for if he ever checks his
email (which I know he does rarely) and basically say that I've come
to the decision based on the circumstances and what's going on that I
do not care to play these games anymore with him.

Don't play the game... No need to put it in writing actions speak
louder than words - Stop playing...

I haven't said or written or anything like that.

I'm actually very glad to hear that

I am also not going to be dealing at all with family maintenance - I
am going to let that ride out and let them do their own work and I do
not want to agree (with him directly) on anything.

Good idea... They do know what they are doing

Oooh, but he has a plan! Something about not getting a real job again
(as opposed to working with his brother for cash under the table) and
moving out of here and something about Cuba. I had stopped actually
listening when I knew where it was going.


Yeah most people say crap like that when they are concerned with child
support payments... Mine even tried to say that he couldn't pay cause of
hardship reasons... I cut that right down to no matter how hard up you
are your children need to eat

I don't even bother saying something like that. He had, a little while
ago, said he'd give me X amount of money. I told him fine, that sounds
fair, and IMO, it was a fair amount, but I had told him that this is
something we should sit down, like adults AND parents, and discuss as
human beings, not be standing in a hallway, both fairly upset for whatever
reason. I also told him that if and when he comes up with that money,
then good, but since I hadn't seen much from him in now almost 2 months, I
wasn't just going to agree and take his word for it. He knows that the
baby needs diapers, milk, whatever. Figuring that one out doesn't take
years and years worth of extensive research.

If I don't answer the phone/return any calls if he makes any here,
would that just be downright immature or wrong?

Yes and yes you are... He could be calling regarding his children...
You may be angry and perhaps have every right to be... But don't hurt
your children and don't put them in the middle...

Well, if he's calling regarding the kids, can he not leave a message?
He already made it clear about Bran earlier this afternoon - and right
infront of him.


What did he do to B??? What was said??? Yes he can leave a message
that's a good plan as well... Leave a message and I'll get back to you

In the car, both kids in the back seat, him beside me, he said that B is
the reason for all my problems, he causes all MY problems.
Alright, my kid is no angel. He's not perfect by any stretch of the
imagination, BUT, he is also *definitely* no better or worse behaved than
any other 5 year old. He's definitely not perfect, but he's definitely
not a horribly behaved child. He listens and behaves appropriately for
the most part, and then again, HE'S 5 YEARS OLD. Tell me your 5 year old
was absolutely perfect and I'll call you a liar. I'd, by no means, say he
was a horrible child. I sometimes think N believes that he's the worst
behaved child for miles. I think Norm compares Bran to himself - or
better yet, how he saw himself at that age - and because his mom had
taught him, "Listen or lickin'" type idea, Norm *thinks* he was the best
behaved 5 year old around. His own mother will tell you herself that he
was by no means perfect, but by no means horrible. Again, your average 5
year old boy.
I think I'll change my answering machine to be more appropriate... It's
currently (and has been for over a year) You've reached the *my last
name* - *his last name* residence (due to me and B having my last name,
him having his last name and A having my last name hyphenated with his) -
maybe I should just change it to something like, "We're all busy, leave a
message!" and make it as bubbly and happy as possible lol

I'm not looking to stoop to his
level. Just let him go his own way without us (the kids and I)
because I really can't stand to see the look on B's face when he tells
the kid that he'll be back tomorrow (or whenever he says) and then B
asks and I have no explanation... It's just basically heartbreaking to
hear Norm tell B directly that he'll be over to visit tomorrow after
work and have B thinking about tomorrow and asking when he'll be off
work and come over.

You can always say then next time you are talking to Daddy you should
ask him these questions cause you really don't know... Give him a hug
and make no other references... N at some point will realize that you
wont cover anymore and have to step up or look like an ass in front of
B and you didn't have to do a thing to point it out to the kid...

There really isn't a next time. He doesn't call, he doesn't show up.
Perhaps it's better that way for now, and should he call or come, then
what? Remind the kid to ask about something from weeks or months ago?


Ok so get a TIME... Alright so 1pm tomorrow? If you are going to be late
please let us know... If he doesn't call and then doesn't show at 130
screw him and go about your business... No need to remind the kid...
After several times of you saying "ask dad" then at some point he'll
remember himself... Then again if N said something negative to B then
perhaps it's time to gently cut the ties between B and N...

BTDT for setting times. I've said what time, he says I don't know. I've
said I need to know an approximate time to work with, like, approx. 6pm.
He'll say, fine, 6pm. I've often said, "Sounds good. Talk to you/see you
then! If you don't call by 6:30 or so, did you want me to try giving you
a call?" and he says that sounds good (as I do know that sometimes we just
get busy) Yup, every single time I go about doing something else. When I
dropped him off today and headed off to this stupid wedding for my cousin,
he said he'd call me some time around or after supper time. I waited
until about 6:30 or so, then we went out. No calls on the cell while we
were out, nor was there any calls on the phone when we came back. I'm
going to bed fairly soon, after I return a few calls from earlier this
afternoon. I'm not waiting up, as usual, and tomorrow I promised Bran
we'd go to Grandma and Grandpa's (my parents) house, since I really was
not in the mood to go to my grandma's (Baba's) house after the church part
of this wedding... He was a bit upset, but I bribed him with McDonald's
A $5 Happy Meal was less time, gas and effort than driving all the way
across the city to my grandma's house for an hour of visiting before
everyone went for the wedding supper part and we'd have to go home anyways
(I was told no children allowed, but this, I guess, was just for our
side - my cousin's side - of the family, so I couldn't go even if I had
wanted to as I had no babysitter or anything)

There's
been a few times where I've had to bite my tongue because I've almost
said something like he's not coming, he doesn't give a **** about any
of us, he's always lying, he does his own thing and has other things
to do that are more important... I've NEVER said that, but I've come
close...


It's difficult sometimes I admit but I've become very good at this
Practice makes perfect I say... Hell I wont even allow family members
to assault him in front of the children I just simply say "out of
respect for the children please keep your opinion to yourself until
they are at least out of earshot"

That's almost always what happens. If it's a phone conversation (with a
friend, my mom, whatever) I just ask if this can be the topic of
discussion later, once I get the kids down for the night. Usually it's
fine to rant and vent later on, and TBH, I do this but only when I know
it's more appropriate. Never out in public (other than my one kinda
rude reply to N's mom after she made a comment, and my reply just kind
of slipped off my tongue) - when she said Amie is only mommy's girl
until daddy is around, and I, yes, without thinking, said, "That's only
because she never sees him and it's like a treat when she does." Only
the baby was with me, and Donna and a pair of neighbours, but still. I
didn't want that conversation to go any further, and I know I shouldn't
have said it, but she pushed my buttons in just the wrong way.

Would leaving a message for him saying something along the lines of,
"Please do not call or stop by uninvited." be wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... I'm sure his children would love him to call
at any time to converse... Stopping by uninvited is unacceptable you
may be otherwise engaged... Ask him to give you at least 24 hours
notice before visiting...

A doesn't give a rat about the phone - she'd much rather press random
buttons and suck on the phone. One thing that bothers me a lot is
putting a baby on the phone to hear them breathe or slobber on the
phone. Thanks, but no thanks. The phone is a costly toy if it gets
broken. B enjoys the phone most of the time, and maybe if he does call,
I will just pass the phone to B and go about whatever I was doing or
thinking about doing.
The problem with 24 hours notice before coming is that if that is
arranged or something, it never happens. I'll sit at home thinking
he'll be here to visit and waste the entire afternoon or whatever away
waiting for nothing. No show, no call, nothing.


No need to waste any time... This isn't an afternoon deal this is a give
me a specific time 1pm etc... And say if you run into trouble let me
know -- Courtesy and common sense...

Those last few words he lacks... He does not show an iota of courtesy and
I think he often lacks common sense...

"You clearly do not want to be
a part of this family, based on your actions which speak volumes, so
from now on, live your life. You clearly are happier like this, and
without contact from me, I'm sure you'd be even happier, as you
wouldn't have to worry about avoiding me or hiding out, as you always
do. We don't *need* you to survive with the way you treat all of us
and act towards us. Kids need stability, and what you are giving them
is far from that." - That's basically what I have wanted to say, but
would doing something like this be totally and completely wrong?

Yes it would be wrong... Whether you like it or not he's a big part of
your family and always will be no matter what... He will never go away
as he is and always will be the children's father whether he's dad or
not is another thing and it's HIS option not yours...

No, I have my family with my children, parents, brothers, cousins, aunts
and uncles. I really don't care, he's not part of my family one bit, as
how I was raised, family doesn't act like this, now the kids, that's
different, I suppose. Right now he's nothing more than a missing link
in THEIR family.


Good thing


I can easily turn the cell phone off or not answer it (if I see a
blocked phone number, a number I know he's calling from or a strange
number I don't recognize) - and I can do the same with the home phone.
If and when we're able to move, I do plan to change phone companies
and get a new phone number, which would make it all easier to not have
any contact at all, but I really can't see moving being a possibility
for quite some time. I'm not going to up and change my phone number
until I move, as I see no point.


When you change the phone number you should give it to him and his
mom... They are still the children's family and should still be able to
contact the children IF they choose to do so...

Well, maybe then I'll get the kids their own phone number lol
Then they can have whichever friends/family they want to contact them on
*their* phone line, not mine? Then it's a dedicated kids' phone line
for the use of the kids LOL j/k

No need... Unless he's going to foot the bill...

LOL Then I guess I'll work on him helping out with diapers first before
trying to get greedy haha

Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle this? All I want is to
live my life and be happy, and how it is right now, I am far from
living my life the way I want to and being happy. I don't want this
for B and A either, as I know for a fact it impacts them, and
definitely not in a good way as of late...

I've been there and done it... My children are now almost 20 and 16...
They have made up their own minds on what there father is and who their
dad is... My daughter is extremely vocal on her opinion on her father
and I've had to several times tell her to stop the bad mouthing when
her brother is around... My son just simply shrugs his shoulders and
doesn't say much... Me I thank the man daily for the 2 beautiful
children he gave me because if he did nothing else in his past he gave
me two of the greatest joys in my life and for that he's earned my
thanks...

It's been a long time for me on my own... My children have a wonderful
role model now he adores the children and has been my best friend for 3
years...

Life is what you make it... This group helped me so much -- Peter
helped me put things in a different perspective God rest his soul I
miss him dearly but what he said makes sense...

Love your children, be there for them, stop making excuses for N make
him accountable for his own actions, be honest with your children my
line over the years simply became "I don't know... You should ask your
dad why"

Don't stoop to his level... Get your own life... Get him out of
yours... Move on... What more can I say?

HTH,
Kim

No, that's about it. It does help. I know what others say is often
fairly good advice, one way or the other.


K... I'm done with this one... You are allowing yourself and your children
to become victims.

"'Kate" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 04:33:58 GMT, "xkatx" the following

So... here in the US we learned that if you put your last name on an
answering machine, people can look it up in the phone book and come on
over and help themselves to everything you have 'cause they know you're
not home. We say, "You've reached phone number, we can't come to the
phone right now because we're outside training the rottweillers, please
leave a message."




Ok I'm using that that's funny! Can I please use that? LOL

So, I had a nice long, hot shower and re-read as much as my brain could
handle, and think I've read differently from the first time I read things.

When he calls, don't avoid the calls. Answer and pass the phone to B to
chat a bit, or if he wants to talk to me, and decides to talk about the kids
(how they're doing, what they're doing, do they need anything, can they
visit, bla bla bla, whatever along those lines) then go for it, if the
conversation goes elsewhere (wanna hang out, what have you been up to, I
miss you, I love you, can we talk about the weather, whatever) steer the
convo back on track to the one thing we have to talk about (the kids) or end
the conversation and say goodbye.

If he shows up unexpectedly, don't cancel any plans I may have had, but if
nothing's on the agenda for that day/time, and it's all good, grab my purse
and head out the door for a couple hours. If we're busy and had previous
plans, let him know that, carry on with my plans and ask for a bit of notice
(a day's notice?).

If he calls or says he'll be here, basically ask for a time, let him know
that I'll wait for about half an hour or so then carry on with the day, or
ask him to let me know if he's going to be late, unable to make it, changed
his mind, whatever.

Don't go out of my way to make life easier or more difficult for him. Keep
the door and lines of communication open and him welcome to come or call.

Don't cover or lie for him, say straight up I really don't know (as is the
case when asked why about something regarding him)

Ensure badmouthing (by myself, friends, family, others in general) is kept
in private, away from the kids and out of earshot from them, or any other
big-mouthed, open-eared children they know or come across

Don't be rude, don't be nasty, don't worry about it, let the kids think what
they want about the situation. Basically, have fun, do what I'd normally do
during the day or night or whatever, concentrate and put all my time and
energy into my kids during the day and have the evenings after bed time for
me time...

I think I really don't know anymore.

I do know, however, I did (surprisingly) have a great time this afternoon
when we took off to my cousin's house for their gift opening thing at their
place... It was kind of a far ways to go, but whatever... Just to get out of
the house, visit with other adults, let the kids watch eachother and play
with the toys with less worries... It wasn't so bad. I think I am going to
get started on this one aquarium right away. It's starting to smell... B
put in one of those grow dinosaurs in my fish tank, and almost all my fish
died from that tank (I counted 10 or 11, and there's about 6 or so still
alive, crammed in to a tiny fish tank that was over crowded before I added
the saved fish)
I have to do a total, complete water change... I might even make an attempt
at completely gutting the tank - gravel and rocks and everything - and
trying to move it over a few feet to make more room for the real computer
desk to come upstairs... Since I have to take out ALL the water anyways, 82
gallons is a fair amount Might take a little while, but we found out
that the yard hose fits on the kitchen sink tap, so that might make adding
water a lot easier... Getting the water out is a total, different story
:'( I don't know what came over that kid to do something like that,
considering he knows better than to play in the fish tanks (a few years back
he put Fruit Loops in the fish tank, killed almost all the fish in there and
I gave away whatever fish survived, which didn't make him very happy at
all!) He eventually learned his lesson, or so I thought, until this stunt
Thinking I might just give up on the fish tanks all together... Thinking
that A will go through the fish tank playing stage, and right around the
same time as A, this next one will as well...
For some reason, I'm in the mood to do some big cleaning and organizing (as
much as I can, anyways) since the baby's napping (had a loooong afternoon
outside, so she's wiped) and B is off to the park with his little friend and
the mom for a little. Have a bit of free time... I'll wake the baby up in
about 20 mins or so, unless she wakes up on her own sooner. *knocks on
wood*

Just looking for something - anything - to do to occupy my mind and keep
myself busy. I'm at the point, still, and have been for the last month or
so, where I don't really want to be out and about and make plans with
friends. I've kind of been declining invites from others and not answering
the phone when certain friends call, as I find that I just really don't want
to hang out with a lot of people. I find I would rather hang out with those
in a similar situation as me - I mean, the friends who have kids - and avoid
those who aren't in the same boat - meaning the friends who are not
married/not dating/have no kids at all. My best friend told me this is
totally normal and expected. She went through the same thing, basically,
breaking up with the father of her son, wanting to be alone and not really
do much with friends, and it's taken her about 3ish months or so before she
felt like she wanted to start going out with friends (NOT dating or
anything) and doing stuff away from home. I just assume this is normal?
Maybe I'll go back into the dating game when the kids are old enough to kick
out of the house and send them off on their own! LOL

"xkatx" wrote in message
news:WyrIg.18212$Ch.17202@clgrps13...
So, I had a nice long, hot shower and re-read as much as my brain could
handle, and think I've read differently from the first time I read things.

When he calls, don't avoid the calls. Answer and pass the phone to B to
chat a bit, or if he wants to talk to me, and decides to talk about the
kids (how they're doing, what they're doing, do they need anything, can
they visit, bla bla bla, whatever along those lines) then go for it, if
the conversation goes elsewhere (wanna hang out, what have you been up to,
I miss you, I love you, can we talk about the weather, whatever) steer the
convo back on track to the one thing we have to talk about (the kids) or
end the conversation and say goodbye.

I think you've got it! LOL

If he shows up unexpectedly, don't cancel any plans I may have had, but if
nothing's on the agenda for that day/time, and it's all good, grab my
purse and head out the door for a couple hours. If we're busy and had
previous plans, let him know that, carry on with my plans and ask for a
bit of notice (a day's notice?).

Yes... yes I think you do...

If he calls or says he'll be here, basically ask for a time, let him know
that I'll wait for about half an hour or so then carry on with the day, or
ask him to let me know if he's going to be late, unable to make it,
changed his mind, whatever.

Woohoo...


Don't go out of my way to make life easier or more difficult for him.
Keep the door and lines of communication open and him welcome to come or
call.

yup!


Don't cover or lie for him, say straight up I really don't know (as is the
case when asked why about something regarding him)

Dead on the money!


Ensure badmouthing (by myself, friends, family, others in general) is kept
in private, away from the kids and out of earshot from them, or any other
big-mouthed, open-eared children they know or come across

Oh yeah she's got it!


Don't be rude, don't be nasty, don't worry about it, let the kids think
what they want about the situation. Basically, have fun, do what I'd
normally do during the day or night or whatever, concentrate and put all
my time and energy into my kids during the day and have the evenings after
bed time for me time...

Well done...

I think I really don't know anymore.

Yes you do - and you are well on the way to ensuring a good healthy bond
between your kids and you AND better yet growing time for yourself!


I do know, however, I did (surprisingly) have a great time this afternoon
when we took off to my cousin's house for their gift opening thing at
their place... It was kind of a far ways to go, but whatever... Just to
get out of the house, visit with other adults, let the kids watch
eachother and play with the toys with less worries... It wasn't so bad. I
think I am going to get started on this one aquarium right away. It's
starting to smell... B put in one of those grow dinosaurs in my fish tank,
and almost all my fish died from that tank (I counted 10 or 11, and
there's about 6 or so still alive, crammed in to a tiny fish tank that was
over crowded before I added the saved fish)
I have to do a total, complete water change... I might even make an
attempt at completely gutting the tank - gravel and rocks and everything -
and trying to move it over a few feet to make more room for the real
computer desk to come upstairs... Since I have to take out ALL the water
anyways, 82 gallons is a fair amount Might take a little while, but we
found out that the yard hose fits on the kitchen sink tap, so that might
make adding water a lot easier... Getting the water out is a total,
different story :'( I don't know what came over that kid to do something
like that, considering he knows better than to play in the fish tanks (a
few years back he put Fruit Loops in the fish tank, killed almost all the
fish in there and I gave away whatever fish survived, which didn't make
him very happy at all!) He eventually learned his lesson, or so I
thought, until this stunt Thinking I might just give up on the fish
tanks all together... Thinking that A will go through the fish tank
playing stage, and right around the same time as A, this next one will as
well...
For some reason, I'm in the mood to do some big cleaning and organizing
(as much as I can, anyways) since the baby's napping (had a loooong
afternoon outside, so she's wiped) and B is off to the park with his
little friend and the mom for a little. Have a bit of free time... I'll
wake the baby up in about 20 mins or so, unless she wakes up on her own
sooner. *knocks on wood*

Just looking for something - anything - to do to occupy my mind and keep
myself busy. I'm at the point, still, and have been for the last month or
so, where I don't really want to be out and about and make plans with
friends. I've kind of been declining invites from others and not
answering the phone when certain friends call, as I find that I just
really don't want to hang out with a lot of people. I find I would rather
hang out with those in a similar situation as me - I mean, the friends who
have kids - and avoid those who aren't in the same boat - meaning the
friends who are not married/not dating/have no kids at all. My best
friend told me this is totally normal and expected. She went through the
same thing, basically, breaking up with the father of her son, wanting to
be alone and not really do much with friends, and it's taken her about
3ish months or so before she felt like she wanted to start going out with
friends (NOT dating or anything) and doing stuff away from home. I just
assume this is normal?
Maybe I'll go back into the dating game when the kids are old enough to
kick out of the house and send them off on their own! LOL

That's what I did LOL and it seems to have worked somewhat LOL I think I'm
finally mature enough... Ok no I'm not but yaknow LOL I don't wanna grow
up... you are well on the way! keep going!