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abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)



 
 
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  #81  
Old June 20th 06, 06:32 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Doug wrote:
Yes, why do you suppose I mention it at all?

Meth is a far more serious drug in effects and outcomes, until final
resolution of course, which immediately levels the playing field. "Final,"
of course, being Death.


Hi, Kane,

Fortunately, methamphetamine dependence is as treatable as other addictions,


If more cost, more time, and more risk of psychosis is taken into account.

so something can be done before addicts reach the final resolution.


Yes. And that costs resources. And you have to be able to reach the
addict. That too takes resources.

There
are other resolutions along the way that are far more digestable for addicts
and their families.


Sure there are. And they all take money. And the damage done by the meth
addict my cut them off from much of it.

Emerging brain science is helping to improve those treatment interventions,
as represented in the study I described.


Yes, funny they aren't free.

More rapidly addictive, more debilitating in disabling the user more
quickly.


More that what? Unfortunately, there was a great deal of misinformation
distributed about methamphetamine addiction. Part of that misinformation
was the myth that one becomes addicted to methamphetamine with their first
"hit."


It is not claimed to be so in all cases. You are making that up, or
taking one or two claims repeated and pretending they are common claims.

Not so. I've found ONE source for that claim.

Never any others that are credible as to prime source themselves.

Bull****, just like you post.

The issue should not be the few that like all propagandist bull****ters
such as you, Doug, try to blow up to something it is not.

The fact is that around 5% of all those who have tried methamphetamine at
least once in their lifetimes were still using the last month of the survey.


That's hardly good news.

While 24% of those who tried cocaine in their lifetime were using crack
cocaine the last month of the survey.


Cocaine is out of one's system in a few hours. Meth takes days.

Any chemical while in one's system is doing it's damage for the duration
of its stay.

And 15% of those who tried marijuana
at least once in their life were still using the last month.


Marijuana is not addictive physically.

Those who are
addicted to a chemical are likely, of course, to be using during the last 30
days. The percentage using cocaine in the last thirty days is five times
the percentage of those who continue to use methamphetamine.


Using and continue to use are not exactly the same.

I have included the raw data and its source below.


Yes. And you need to study this issue further without the influence of
the propagandists YOU serve.

"Party" use is similar in effects, though of shorter duration per episode
for booze.

And while alcohol can in certain people produce violent belligerence, in
meth users it can result in more active violence and harm.

Anyone working with these populations knows this. Don't they, Doug?


LIFETIME USE

Marijuana 94,900,000 users 40.4% of total population

Marijuana is not an addictive drug.

Cocaine 33,000,000 users 14.4% of total population
Inhalants 18,000,000 users 8.1% of total population
Methamphetamine 12,000,000 users 5.3% of total population




USE OF DRUG DURING THE LAST MONTH

Percentage of total
Drug Number population Source

Methamphetamine 597,000 0.3% http://tinyurl.com/krf4v


Meth has a longer high.

Crack Cocaine* 8,000,000 3.6% http://tinyurl.com/s8j46


Short high and very expensive.

Marijuana 14,600,000 6.2% http://tinyurl.com/n7mkp


Not and addictive drug. Effects are minimal compared to cocaine and
virtually nonexistent compared to Meth.

And Marijuana does little damage to the brain that I know of. You got
any studies on that, Doug?

There are few toxins in MJ. Just the smoked form, with particulate
damaging the lungs.

No brain and nervous system effects I've ever heard of rather than
temporary.

Know of many potheads doing violent crimes?

Even to get the money to buy?

Your arguments are stupid, as you are stupid to think you can sell your
swill to all but the dysfunctional twits you cater to here.

Meth is a killer like no other. It is spreading. It may be stopped or
seriously slowed if we don't push it aside as we did other substances.

We have become jaded about the others...and that has not stopped them
wrecking families and hurting children.

You want to consign this one to the same dustbin?

See why I say you hate children and families yet?

0:-



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
  #82  
Old June 21st 06, 02:18 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine


Fortunately, methamphetamine dependence is as treatable as other
addictions,


If more cost, more time, and more risk of psychosis is taken into account.


Hi, Kane,

To the contrary, the same treatment, for the same length of time, at the
same cost, is just as effective for methamphetamine addicts as those
chemically dependent on other drugs.
That was the salient point made by the research, many times duplicated.


  #83  
Old June 21st 06, 03:27 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Fortunately, methamphetamine dependence is as treatable as other
addictions,


If more cost, more time, and more risk of psychosis is taken into account.


Hi, Kane,

To the contrary, the same treatment, for the same length of time, at the
same cost is just as effective for methamphetamine addicts as those
chemically dependent on other drugs.

That was the salient point made by the research, many times duplicated.


  #84  
Old June 21st 06, 08:16 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default KANE SCREWED UP

Hi Kane!

  #85  
Old June 21st 06, 10:57 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Kane wants to pretend that Meth is so much
worse than other street drugs that it justifies
LOTS MORE NEW AND SPECIAL FUNDING!

The reports on treatability deflate his PR campaign.

Fox News figured out the NACO PR idiot was
just lobbying for dollars. The opposition group
couldn't even show up, just cited statistics and
still won out. Fox News must have figured out
that NACO was just doing a money grab.
The interview was not re-aired in their normal
cycle of repetition.


Doug wrote:
Fortunately, methamphetamine dependence is as treatable as other
addictions,


If more cost, more time, and more risk of psychosis is taken into account.


Hi, Kane,

To the contrary, the same treatment, for the same length of time, at the
same cost is just as effective for methamphetamine addicts as those
chemically dependent on other drugs.

That was the salient point made by the research, many times duplicated.


  #86  
Old June 22nd 06, 05:01 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Greegor wrote:
Kane wants to pretend that Meth is so much
worse than other street drugs that it justifies
LOTS MORE NEW AND SPECIAL FUNDING!


Nope. Equal funding.

And in some aspects it is very much worse. One has to consume a whole
hell of a lot more of other abused substances to get the ruinous effect
of meth.

And spend a whole lot more time at it.

The reports on treatability deflate his PR campaign.


The report was not, if you didn't notice, not accompanied with a
citation as to source.

Read'em and weep, stupid:

http://www.mihivnews.com/features/tina_and_msm.htm
"The UCLA Integrated Substance Abuse Programs Associate Director,
Richard Rawson, Ph.D gave an excellent presentation in Kalamazoo about
the signs, symptoms and effects on the body of methamphetamine. He also
talked about treatment that has been successful at his clinic – which
has been seeing meth addicts for about eight years.
There are special issues for treatment of methamphetamine addicts.
With mental states ranging from paranoid to psychotic, their behavior
can put others at risk. Their brains have been physically altered by the
drug and full recovery takes 6 months to two years, Rawson said. He said
treatment needs to be behavior based, not cognitive based, since memory,
cognition and reasoning are seriously impaired by meth. Rawson also
emphasized the importance of positive reinforcement for treatment. The
most important thing in the beginning of treatment is to keep them
coming back.
The Lancet (4.2.05) reported on a study at Rawson’s UCLA clinic.
One of the researchers, Steve Shoptaw said that the treatment program
specifically for gay men targeting drug use is also showing improvement
at reducing sexual behavior. “It’s important, because by the time gay
men show up at the clinic door, three out of five are HIV positive,” he
said.
Rawson’s real take home message to the audience in Kalamazoo was,
by the time you see treatment admissions for meth addiction, you’ve
already had a methamphetamine problem for seven years.
Curry said he was not able to find a treatment program in Michigan
that could deal with his meth addiction, so this spring he went out of
state, where he graduated from a 28-day program in 16 days and was sent
home with a 20-day relapse prevention plan. "

Yer being lied to, Greg, and loving every minute of it, aren't you, boy?

http://www.laramieboomerang.com/news...StoryID=104194

[[[Why sure the same treatments will work with meth addicts.....R R R R
R R R R R ]]]

"“It became evident that this was a different drug that they weren’t
admitting to,” Johnson said. “They were admitting to all the other
drugs, but they wouldn’t admit to the meth. If that’s their drug of
choice, then they don’t want you messing with their drug of choice.”

Counselors also learned that traditional recovery programs — based on a
28-day inpatient model — wouldn’t work for meth: Addicts would relapse
as soon as they finished the programs.

It’s necessary to keep a meth addict in treatment for up to two years,
allowing the brain to heal and allowing the addict to regain clear
mental functioning, Warren said.

“It’s like dealing with somebody who has severe head trauma,” she said.

Because of the length of treatment — and because it takes so long for
them to feel normal again — people often drop out and go back to using.
As such, therapy is often complemented with anti-depressants and
anti-anxiety medications.

Even after treatment, recovering meth addicts are in danger of relapsing
for seven or eight years, Johnson said. "

http://web.kitsapsun.com/meth/treatmentworks.html

[[[ Money boys, it takes MONEY to get the kind of treatment that works
.... even partially with Meth addicts. ]]]

""Without such treatment upon release, it is likely that many offenders
will relapse and re-offend, adding still further to the methamphetamine
problem," a state policy paper said last July.

Two-thirds of meth addicts at Kitsap Recovery Center relapse treatment.

The relapse rate goes down significantly in programs specifically
designed to deal with problems unique to meth. Such programs are not
common in Washington, although they were recommended by the
methamphetamine work group of the Governor's Council on Substance Abuse.

"Twelve step doesn't work for meth addicts because their brain doesn't
work for 30 to 60 days. ... Nobody wants a meth addict because they're a
pain in the butt," said Roger Lake, a retired Washington State Patrol
sergeant and official with the Washington State Narcotics Investigators
Association.

County jails, where offenders with sentences under a year serve their
time, rarely offer drug treatment, and Kitsap's jail is no exception.

They simply don't have the money, nor the resources to find outside funding.

The model program at the Thurston County jail gets 25 percent of its
money from the county and the rest from a grant. It costs $268,000 a
year for about 50 prisoners and has been able to prove that the improved
recidivism rate makes it worth the cost."


http://www.ag.state.il.us/methnet/fi...ent.html#known
[[[ This is not a treatment center. It has NO investment in meth
treatment, and I have no investment in non-profits, or any other
organizations that treat for meth addiction...but I've certainly been
there professionally and know what goes on. You are being lied to Greg.
We were just told by your mentor that it's the same for meth addicts as
other substance abuser addicts. Kind of disagrees with a lot of
professionals, no? ]]]

"hat is the best treatment for meth addicts? Back to top


Because traditional treatment models are not effective for meth
addiction, meth-specific treatment programs have been developed.

Successful meth treatment requires the use of cognitive-behavioral
therapy. The cognitive-behavioral therapy approach, which focuses on how
the way we think affects our feelings and actions, helps patients
identify and plan for the triggers associated with the substance abuse.
This approach prepares the addict for life-long recovery.

A critical consideration in meth treatment is something known as the
“wall.” Around 45 to 120 days into treatment, recovering addicts
experience physiological changes that often lead to a return to meth
use. This period of increased depression and need for the drug is the
single significant factor today to the false perception that meth
addiction is “untreatable.”

Although recovering from meth addiction is challenging, it is not
impossible. For meth treatment to be successful, it simply must meet the
demands of meth addiction. Research shows that recovering meth addicts
require a longer and more intense outpatient program than is the case
for many other drugs. These outpatient services should be very
structured and include frequent contact between the treatment provider
and the recovering addict. "








Fox News figured out the NACO PR idiot was
just lobbying for dollars. The opposition group
couldn't even show up, just cited statistics and
still won out. Fox News must have figured out
that NACO was just doing a money grab.
The interview was not re-aired in their normal
cycle of repetition.


Fox News? R R R R R ...Oh no, they wouldn't have a slanted view of the
issue. R R R R R






Doug wrote:
Fortunately, methamphetamine dependence is as treatable as other
addictions,
If more cost, more time, and more risk of psychosis is taken into account.

Hi, Kane,

To the contrary, the same treatment, for the same length of time, at the
same cost is just as effective for methamphetamine addicts as those
chemically dependent on other drugs.

That was the salient point made by the research, many times duplicated.




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
  #87  
Old June 24th 06, 04:37 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
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Posts: n/a
Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Rawson’s real take home message to the audience in Kalamazoo was, by
the time you see treatment admissions for meth addiction, you’ve already
had a methamphetamine problem for seven years.


Hi, Kane,

Dr. Rawson, who is at the forefront of researchers proving that
methamphetamine dependency is treated just as effectively as addiction to
other drugs, points out the reason why treatment center admissions are
increasing now as use of the drug has been decreasing.

http://www.laramieboomerang.com/news...StoryID=104194

It’s necessary to keep a meth addict in treatment for up to two years,
allowing the brain to heal and allowing the addict to regain clear mental
functioning, Warren said.


It is necessary to keep an addict of most chemicals in outpatient treatment
for up to two years after leaving residential treatment. There is nothing
new in this. And certainly nothing unique for those in recovery from
methamphetamine addiction.

"Even after treatment, recovering meth addicts are in danger of relapsing
for seven or eight years, Johnson said. "


Even after treatment, recovering addicts with any drug of choice are in
danger of relapsing for seven, eight, nine, or ten years. I think everyone
knows that. The danger of relapse after treatment is not unique to
methamphetamine users.

The success rate -- the numbers of recovering methamphetamine addicts that
do NOT relapse -- is the same as it is for those recovering from other
drugs, like cocaine. Dr. Rawson has pointed this out many times and proved
it through his clinical trials at UCLA.


"Twelve step doesn't work for meth addicts because their brain doesn't
work for 30 to 60 days. ... Nobody wants a meth addict because they're a
pain in the butt," said Roger Lake, a retired Washington State Patrol
sergeant and official with the Washington State Narcotics Investigators
Association.


You may want to ask members of Narcotics Anonymous, whose membership is made
up of many recovering methamphetamine addicts. They work the steps. The NA
members probably know a little more about 12-step programs than a retired
cop, who is quoted above.

The cop has it wrong. In reality, methamphetamine addicts respond very well
to Minnesota Model approaches which heavily involve 12-step work. The
standard, evidence-based treatment for methamphetamine addiction, like
addictions to cocaine and other drugs, is cognitive behavioral approaches
combined with a 12-step program.

http://www.ag.state.il.us/methnet/fi...ent.html#known


Because traditional treatment models are not effective for meth addiction,
meth-specific treatment programs have been developed.

Successful meth treatment requires the use of cognitive-behavioral
therapy. The cognitive-behavioral therapy approach, which focuses on how
the way we think affects our feelings and actions, helps patients identify
and plan for the triggers associated with the substance abuse. This
approach prepares the addict for life-long recovery.


Cognitive-behavioral therapy is the standard, evidence-based approach for
drug addiction. It is preferred over rational-emotive or cognitive
approaches. Beck probably didn't understand this population -- people
dependent on all drugs.

You may want to check with someone involved with treatment. That your source
mentions cognitive-behavioral therapy as the preferred approach supports my
contention that meth addiction is treated the same as addictions to other
drugs.

“wall.” Around 45 to 120 days into treatment, recovering addicts
experience physiological changes that often lead to a return to meth use.
This period of increased depression and need for the drug is the single
significant factor today to the false perception that meth addiction is
“untreatable.”


It is called "Post-Acute-Withdrawal" and these symptoms appear in people in
recovery from many different drugs, including alcohol, during this time
frame. The information is not wrong, it is just not unique in any way to
those recoverying from methamphetamine. Depression, problems with short
term memory and concentration, sleep disruption, hypersensitivity to stress
and mood swings are experienced by people recovering from many different
drugs, including methamphetamine.



  #88  
Old June 24th 06, 07:59 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.support.child-protective-services,misc.kids
external usenet poster
 
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Default Observer's stupidity revisited 2006 was outlawing pseudoephedrine

Doug wrote:
Rawson’s real take home message to the audience in Kalamazoo was, by
the time you see treatment admissions for meth addiction, you’ve already
had a methamphetamine problem for seven years.


Hi, Kane,

Dr. Rawson, who is at the forefront of researchers proving that
methamphetamine dependency is treated just as effectively as addiction to
other drugs, points out the reason why treatment center admissions are
increasing now as use of the drug has been decreasing.


Circular reasoning at its finest. Just your style.

Of course if people are IN TREATMENT THEY ARE NOT USING, hence the drop
in "users."

They'll be replaced. Give it a little time.

Unless, of course, the efforts SOME of us are making has effect. We've
reason to think that education and strict law enforcement is having some
impact.

http://www.laramieboomerang.com/news...StoryID=104194

It’s necessary to keep a meth addict in treatment for up to two years,
allowing the brain to heal and allowing the addict to regain clear mental
functioning, Warren said.


It is necessary to keep an addict of most chemicals in outpatient treatment
for up to two years after leaving residential treatment. There is nothing
new in this. And certainly nothing unique for those in recovery from
methamphetamine addiction.


R R R R ...... count the rate of falling of the wagon, dummy.

"Even after treatment, recovering meth addicts are in danger of relapsing
for seven or eight years, Johnson said. "


Even after treatment, recovering addicts with any drug of choice are in
danger of relapsing for seven, eight, nine, or ten years. I think everyone
knows that. The danger of relapse after treatment is not unique to
methamphetamine users.


It simply happens More often to meth addicts, stupid.

The success rate -- the numbers of recovering methamphetamine addicts that
do NOT relapse -- is the same as it is for those recovering from other
drugs, like cocaine. Dr. Rawson has pointed this out many times and proved
it through his clinical trials at UCLA.


Then he's dealing in nonsense. Show his work here, with links to it at
least.

"Twelve step doesn't work for meth addicts because their brain doesn't
work for 30 to 60 days. ... Nobody wants a meth addict because they're a
pain in the butt," said Roger Lake, a retired Washington State Patrol
sergeant and official with the Washington State Narcotics Investigators
Association.


You may want to ask members of Narcotics Anonymous, whose membership is made
up of many recovering methamphetamine addicts. They work the steps. The NA
members probably know a little more about 12-step programs than a retired
cop, who is quoted above.


Gee, the person on the observing end, NOT a bleeding heart liberal and
addiction apologist disagrees and you think he's not qualified. R R R R

Of ALL the people that might come into contact with a meth addict THIS
would be the one most likely to see the bad results. He and the addicts
children, of course.

The cop has it wrong.


No he doesn't. He's where the rubber hits the road, dummy. No clinical
soft-peddling for him. He has to deal with the nitty gritty of what meth
addicts actually DO.

In reality, methamphetamine addicts respond very well
to Minnesota Model approaches which heavily involve 12-step work. The
standard, evidence-based treatment for methamphetamine addiction, like
addictions to cocaine and other drugs, is cognitive behavioral approaches
combined with a 12-step program.


Mmmm..hhhmmmmm...emphasis on the "heavily involved," Doug.

http://www.ag.state.il.us/methnet/fi...ent.html#known

Because traditional treatment models are not effective for meth addiction,
meth-specific treatment programs have been developed.

Successful meth treatment requires the use of cognitive-behavioral
therapy. The cognitive-behavioral therapy approach, which focuses on how
the way we think affects our feelings and actions, helps patients identify
and plan for the triggers associated with the substance abuse. This
approach prepares the addict for life-long recovery.


Cognitive-behavioral therapy is the standard, evidence-based approach for
drug addiction. It is preferred over rational-emotive or cognitive
approaches.


Witch doctors and laying on of hands would be preferred to either one.

Beck probably didn't understand this population -- people
dependent on all drugs.


You'd be amazed what cops understand.

You may want to check with someone involved with treatment.


R R R R...only on a monthly basis now. Far less than I used to. You are
full of ****.

That your source
mentions cognitive-behavioral therapy as the preferred approach supports my
contention that meth addiction is treated the same as addictions to other
drugs.


Time, numbers of times the addict uses again, and the smaller number of
meth addicts in treatment ALL contribute to your being wrong, Doug.

“wall.” Around 45 to 120 days into treatment, recovering addicts
experience physiological changes that often lead to a return to meth use.
This period of increased depression and need for the drug is the single
significant factor today to the false perception that meth addiction is
“untreatable.”


It is called "Post-Acute-Withdrawal" and these symptoms appear in people in
recovery from many different drugs, including alcohol, during this time
frame. The information is not wrong, it is just not unique in any way to
those recoverying from methamphetamine.


It is in intensity and duration, Liar.

Depression, problems with short
term memory and concentration, sleep disruption, hypersensitivity to stress
and mood swings are experienced by people recovering from many different
drugs, including methamphetamine.


Yes, so?

Now let me see. You managed to leave out paranoia, and dangerous violent
rages. Why is that I wonder?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/publica...ethintf/3.html
"Also, research shows that protracted brain dysfunction persists for
months after methamphetamine use stops. Other clinical issues include
continuing paranoia, hypersexuality, irritability, drug craving in
response to conditioned cues, and violence."

None of your arguments address the cost issue, Doug. Notice that?

The fact that meth addicts are taking beds away from OTHERS that need
treatment?

All because YOU and those that think as you do, believe it can all be
done without money, or on the cheap.

Bull**** artists, the lot of you.

0:-

REF:
http://itsnt166.iowa.uiowa.edu/uns-a..._comments.html

[[[ Recent enough for you, dummy? Considerably more recent than yours.]]]

"The report issued Jan. 17 by the State of Iowa Office of Drug Control
Policy credits the state's pseudoephedrine control law (Senate File
169), enacted in May 2005, with a decrease in meth lab incidents from an
average of 119 per month before the law to 20 per month since the law
was passed. Pseudoephedrine, a main ingredient in some cold and flu
medications, is also a main ingredient in meth production. The law put
the medications behind lock-and-key at pharmacies.

However, the report also states that the law has not reduced the supply
of imported meth or demand for the drug. "

"However, the law hasn't done anything about addiction, use or some of
the other negative consequences."

For one, because imported meth is more pure, it increases people's
chances of dependence and any associated medical problems. In addition,
child endangerment and abuse problems overall have not been reduced
because they are related to people's use of the drug, not its
manufacture, Arndt said.

The Iowa Consortium for Substance Abuse Research and Evaluation has been
evaluating meth and other substance abuse prevention and treatment
programs that are publicly funded. Meth treatment programs have a 65
percent success rate while alcohol treatment programs have a 47 percent
success rate, the consortium reported in a September 2005 client
treatment outcomes report.

"Contrary to some national news reports, meth treatment programs make a
notable difference. Paradoxically, meth's downside is one of its
benefits toward treatment -- it's highly addictive so the speed at which
people bottom out and need help is greatly accelerated," Arndt said.

In just one year, people on meth can lose their jobs and families, be
arrested and receive prison sentences. Yet people with alcohol or
marijuana abuse can go decades without any obvious adverse affects or
legal problems.

From the sample of 1,039 Iowans in publicly funded treatment programs,
45 percent were being treated for alcohol, 25 percent for marijuana and
20 percent for meth. "

That means that there has to be a 20% budget INCREASE, to not overload
the system, Doug. Simple math, not your numbers trickery.

Pretending that to fund one program another must be defunded is YOUR
bull****, not those that make the decisions.

http://www.jointogether.org/news/fea...ucus-puts.html
[[[ Here's an interesting claim. Fits your model but for ONE little
point, MINE....scarcity of resources. ]]]

""There's a false but widespread belief that methamphetamine treatment
is ineffective," said Carol Falkowski, research communications director
for the Hazelden Foundation, who will testify at the Capitol Hill
briefing. "It's the same thing that happened when the crack-cocaine
epidemic exploded. There are effective treatments, but they're not
generally as available as they should be.""

[[[ And I do not consider the treatment ineffective, as you've tried to
portray my argument by your sly shifting from what I DID IN FACT SAY. I
consider it more DIFFICULT. And more difficult to come by. And meth
addicts to be less forthcoming for treatment. ]]]


http://alcoholism.about.com/gi/dynam...a-se061206.php
http://tinyurl.com/k9zdl

""Meth has such a rapid effect that you see parenting just break down
literally," Ostler said. "Families change rapidly in that time and I
think that's very terrifying for children," she said.

Yet despite those conditions, the researchers found that when the
children were asked about "sad or scary times," they talked first or
most often about the experience of losing their parents, even months
later, Haight said. "Most want desperately to be with their families and
feel a great deal of pain and grief over being separated from their
parents."

Another complication is that some of these children had taken on the
role of caring for their parents, as well as younger siblings, when
their parents were under the influence. One child asked who would watch
over her mother when she was "sick," Haight said. They also experience
emotional harm from the stigma of being the children of methamphetamine
users, many of whom face years in prison.

The children often also carry a strong distrust of authority figures,
passed on from their parents as a result of the criminal activity
involved, sometimes reinforced by a meth-induced paranoia. Some have
been actively socialized into a rural drug culture. "It becomes a huge
blockage" to intervention in some cases, Ostler said.

For children raised from an early age with their parents using
methamphetamine, even routine aspects of family life, like regular meal
and bed times, may represent "culture shock," the authors say. "






--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
 




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