"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

In article ,
"just me" wrote:

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
I'd have been glad to keep on expressing milk (I don't say "pump"
because I found hand expressing easier and faster) -- but she wouldn't
nurse at all. She preferred the bottle, and would just cry and turn
away when offered the breast. So at some point (around 5 or 6 months, I
think) I just quit and switched to full time formula, just cutting down
the amount I expressed each day until there was none left. It seemed
simpler than expressing *and* always using a bottle, and I figured I'd
given her the early months of breast milk. I have a great deal of
admiration for those women who have to express milk and still use
bottles who continue for more than a few months! I know how important
it is, especially for premies, it just is very frustrating to do!

I suppose I could have tried to make her nurse by letting her get
extremely hungry -- but that never sounded like a Good Idea. (And with
the other two, they would never take to a bottle; again, I suppose I
could have forced the issue, but since I didn't have anyplace to go
where I wasn't taking them with me anyway, it didn't seem worth the
effort.)


I don't think you should have any second thoughts or guilty feelings. You
did what you found worked for you and your family. They are healthy kidlets
and you have much more to deal with in life than the question of how you
ensured that they received proper nutritional intake prior to introduction
of solids. If that were the hardest part of parenthood, the thing that
everything for that child's future hung on, well, then maybe the argument
should assume the monumental guilt proportions that it often does. But it
isn't The Shaping Event of their lives, just one more aspect of parenting
that we all often feel judged over, whether or not anyone is actually
judging us. You did fine.

-Aula

I don't feel guilty or have second thoughts; I guess that was the point
I was trying to make: the if the article was REALLY about reducing
guilt, they should have said that, instead of making it sound like
breast feeing was a "time waster". For some people, it DOES appear to
be a time sink; for others it appears to be a time saver. Either way
-- do what works, and don't look back!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article ,
dragonlady says...



I always figure that, if it isn't exploring rivers and swimming in seas,
there's
LOTS of quiet relaxing stuff *I* like to do in my nice air-conditioned house
:-)

Banty


Hmmm -- I think I'd like you, but I suspect we'd drive each other
bat-**** crazy if we ever tried to vacation together. It isn't that I
don't enjoy swimming or zooming around -- I just really enjoy just
sitting, too.

Oh, I like relaxing and reading, playing piano, and I like fiber arts, too. And
of course some talking and visiting. It's the - - just - always - SITTING - -
that gets to me. And how a lot of activities for a lot of people is about -
just finding somewhere *else* to - - sit.

A few weeks ago I spent two days with my brother and his
partner. My brother kept asking me what I wanted to do; I didn't want
to DO anything -- I just hadn't seen them for a very long time, and had
the chance to spend some time with them. I think he's more like you,
and I think just "hanging out" with me wasn't fun for him! (His partner
was OK with it; in fact, he may have enjoyed the chance to just hang
out and not "do" anything!)

I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what we
all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual,
actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.)

It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for long.

Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this:

Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday?
Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off!
Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going boating
with us on Sunday!

Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on a
boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT, instead of
the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do!

Cheers,
Banty

Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...


In article ,
Banty wrote:





Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts
like
me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures,
defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend
whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-)



However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting
described as "not really doing anything"!


Hear hear!

Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing??

Banty



Well, if you insist . . .



I shoulda put a smiley :-)



I wonder if this isn't part of the breastfeeding split?



I think maternal temprament is part of it. I don't think it necessarily splits
along introvert-extrovert lines. I can easily envision a sanguine introvert
loving the quiet time with baby(s). It's probably more on an activity
characteristic. Although not necessarily physical activity. Part of *my*
experience of bf'ing as a long sitting-chore was that I had no hands free to
pursue any mental activity. If I were a B-cup, I might have liked it better.



For me -- someone who needs to be around other people to get rejuvinated
-- breastfeeding was something that made ME feel good. I enjoyed it,
and was sad when my oldest gave it up so early. I never understood why
folks who COULD breastfeed without serious problems would prefer to
bottle feed.



WEll, IMO this isn't a deciding factor - after all, getting through Cub Scout
nights was also sometimes something of a chore! One stretches one's boundaries
of tolerance to parent.



If, on the other hand, for folks like you it feels more like a chore --
bottles WOULD be simpler, since it tends to be faster and since other
people can do it, too. (Regardless of a person's reason, I would be
hard pressed to criticize anyone's choice when it comes to this, or most
other parenting issues!)

I'm about to take the Myers-Briggs for the first time (I've actively
avoided it) and am reasonably certain that I'll turn up an "E"; I
wonder if anyone has ever looked at this particular aspect of
personality type and parenting styles? I wonder if E's, for example,
are more likely to breast feed, or use attachment parenting?




I test INTJ. It absolutely fits.

Banty




I test INTJ also.

Clisby

Donna Metler wrote:




We're actually a little bit concerned about that for our children, when we
have them-how do you raise children who have adequate social interaction
when you don't really interact socially much?




That's a good question. I've thought about it, because we don't
socialize much, either.
We don't dislike socializing - it's just that we like peace and quiet
more. (When I was
first dating my husband, one of things I liked so much about him was that
he didn't feel compelled to yammer at me the whole time we were
together.) I think
when you have children, you just have to make the effort to invite their
playmates over,
or invite their friends along to a movie, or get them involved in
activities where they'll be
around other children. Those things don't necessarily come naturally
to parents .

Clisby

just me wrote:

"Clisby Williams" wrote in message
...


I test INTJ. It absolutely fits.

Banty





I test INTJ also.





That's three of us. Scary. I wonder how many other idealistic hermits we
have around here?

-Aula




Not only that - I like knitting and needlepoint, although I haven't done
either in awhile.

Clisby

toto wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:50:16 -0400, Clisby Williams
wrote:



Nan wrote:



On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:56:31 -0500, toto
wrote:






I breastfed both children. I think it not only saved time, but it
was so much easier than preparing bottles and carrying all kinds
of paraphanelia with me when I went out.




I've never understood the "all kinds of paraphanelia" comment, either.
I bf'd as well as bottlefed, and didn't find I had to tote all kinds
of anything when I went out.
2 bottles in my bag, and that was it.
Well, other than all the stuff *all* moms seem to need to tote....
diapers, wipes, etc in a diaper bag.




I don't get it either. I don't what people imagine you have to carry
around with
you. I always kept a couple of clean bottles and a couple of small
cans of
ready-to-feed formula in my backpack (I don't carry a purse or a diaper
bag -
everything I need goes in the backpack.) That was it for "all kinds of
paraphernalia."

Clisby



Difference in the time frame? When my children were young, we did
not have so many ready mixed things.





Maybe - but I still don't see how it could involve much paraphernalia.
If I hadn't had
ready-to-feed formula, I could have filled the bottles of water and
taken along enough
powder to mix. Or if you mean before there was powdered formula - I
could have
taken along a couple of bottles already filled with formula. At worst,
I wouldn't need
it and would throw it out, but that's no big deal. It's not like I had
to carry around
a portable sterilizer or something.

Clisby

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:



I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to what
we
all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual,
actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.)

It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for
long.

Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this:

Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday?
Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off!
Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going
boating
with us on Sunday!

Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on a
boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT, instead
of
the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do!

Cheers,
Banty


See, I'd scrap the quilt and go on the boat -- not because it's on a
boat, but because it's hanging out with people I like (you did say
they're friends?) instead of being home engaged in a solo activity.

I wonder how much of this is really has to do with personality types? I
get recharged, rejuvinated, by just being with other people -- and, the
way my life is right now, I don't have nearly enough of that.

Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts like
me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures,
defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend
whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-)


However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting
described as "not really doing anything"!

Hear hear!

Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing??

Banty

In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article ,
dragonlady says...

In article ,
Banty wrote:



I like a balance. Last visit to my father, I had to slow him down as to
what
we
all were to do. And it's *his* health that's failing. (That's unusual,
actually, almost as if he was trying to make up for something.)

It's just that sitting, per se, and yammering, per se, isn't enough for
long.

Perhaps you can understand my frustration in a conversation like this:

Friends: Sooo, what are you doing Sunday?
Me: I finally have time to get back to that quilt I've been putting off!
Friends: Oh - since you're not reaally doing anything, how about going
boating
with us on Sunday!

Rrrrrr....I'm supposed to want to sit and sip and visit - for hoouurs - on
a
boat, and that's supposed to be soooo speshul 'cause it's on a BOAT,
instead
of
the relaxing and absorbing thing at home I *really* want to do!

Cheers,
Banty


See, I'd scrap the quilt and go on the boat -- not because it's on a
boat, but because it's hanging out with people I like (you did say
they're friends?) instead of being home engaged in a solo activity.

I wonder how much of this is really has to do with personality types? I
get recharged, rejuvinated, by just being with other people -- and, the
way my life is right now, I don't have nearly enough of that.

Yep - that's the extrovert-introvert split. Extroverts all want introverts
like
me to toss aside the books, the hobbies, and the simple solitary pleasures,
defer these things to our dotages, "come out of (our) shells", and spend
whatever moments we can With Other People. Drives Banty batty. :-)


However, I would also be seriously annoyed at having my quilting
described as "not really doing anything"!

Hear hear!

Aren't we supposed to be talking about BF'ing??

Banty


Well, if you insist . . .

I wonder if this isn't part of the breastfeeding split?

For me -- someone who needs to be around other people to get rejuvinated
-- breastfeeding was something that made ME feel good. I enjoyed it,
and was sad when my oldest gave it up so early. I never understood why
folks who COULD breastfeed without serious problems would prefer to
bottle feed.

If, on the other hand, for folks like you it feels more like a chore --
bottles WOULD be simpler, since it tends to be faster and since other
people can do it, too. (Regardless of a person's reason, I would be
hard pressed to criticize anyone's choice when it comes to this, or most
other parenting issues!)

I'm about to take the Myers-Briggs for the first time (I've actively
avoided it) and am reasonably certain that I'll turn up an "E"; I
wonder if anyone has ever looked at this particular aspect of
personality type and parenting styles? I wonder if E's, for example,
are more likely to breast feed, or use attachment parenting?

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article , Clisby Williams
writes


In my experience of reading these newsgroups, people who talk about the
inconvenience
of formula feeding typically are grossly exaggerating the amount of time
and bother it takes.

But that works both ways - I honestly think the truth of the matter is
that whatever you do routinely ends up being well practised and not
seeming to be too much bother. I pumped exclusively for months, and by
the end of the time I was pleased that I could get up, feed DS a bottle,
express and change his bum in 15 mins, now if I'm still awake 10 mins
after starting to feed ds#2 it feels like a long time - I guess it's all
subjective

Here's the kind of thing I read:

1. You have to sterilize bottles. (No, you don't.)
I know in the states it's not always done, but here the 'official'
advice is still to sterilise up to about 6 months, even if you don't
have to sterilise you still have to wash them. Not everyone has a
dishwasher.

2. You have to get up in the middle of the night and fix a bottle.
(Only if your definition
of "fixing a bottle" is: reach in the refrigerator, pull out a
bottle, stick it in the baby's
mouth. If you have a picky baby, maybe you microwave it for 10
seconds first.)

Still have to prep the bottle before going to bed, get up to fetch it,
and that's more than if you're co-sleeping, not so much more though if
baby is in another room.

3. If you go out with the baby, you have to wait until you find
somewhere to warm up
the bottle. (No, you don't.)

True, but you do have to plan how many bottles, and carry them with you.

4. You have to go to the trouble of buying the formula. (Oh, give me
a break.)

Trouble, no, expense? Yes.
5. You might run out of formula. (Never happened. How much
trouble is it to remember
to buy the only food your baby eats?)

Depends how disorganised you are - we occasionally run out of nappies
even though it should be obvious when we're getting low on them.
--
Jenn
UK

In article , The Ranger
writes
E wrote in message
.. .
[snip]
also, expressed bm can be "stored" at room temp. for
quite a few hours before "going bad" whereas mixed
formula can't be...

I am always surprised at how strongly resilient my daughter-units are at my
attempts to do what I think is best or right. Each test often shows they
will survive into adulthood despite my (and many other well-meaning adults)
book-based, doctor-supported, new-age intentions. Go figure.

The Ranger


Meaning what, in the context of this discussion?
--
Jenn
UK