Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills

Herman Rubin wrote:
[snip]
Writing all your essays?

If one or two satisfactory essays are written, what
is the purpose of the rest?
[snip]

Having an essay topic in mind provides a focus for reading and other
studies: planning (not neccessarily as a draft) helps the student master
and throughly understand the material.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Raving Beauty wrote (in part):

I PLAYED THE GAME long enough to get straight A's to graduate
HS with honors, and gain admission and graduate with honors
from a first rate University, --then, gain admission to
an exclusive grad school, then, obtain my professional
credentials, etc.

I don't understand how making vague and non-specific claims
about your background is supposed to carry any weight. I can
appreciate you not wanting your personal information archived
in usenet posts for anyone to see, now or several years from
now. However, you should realize that in this situation
all we have to go on is what you post. And frankly, your
posts do not provide very much support for the statements
you made above.

The only reason I'm bothering to say this is because
I was reading this thread and, all of a sudden, you
jumped on nimue's back for no reason at all. To be honest,
I thought you were a teenage troll at first, but your
posting record suggests otherwise (in this regard, at least).

Dave L. Renfro

Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"nimue" wrote:
Dunnoh' , 'cept to point out that the essential concern is on
improving skills and increasing understanding.

Have you heard of a little thing called NCLB that rules our lives?

Why does it rule our lives?

Why don't we vote out all the assholes that created it, and elect new
assholes to eliminate it?

I didn't vote for those assholes nor, I suspect, did any of my colleagues.

lojbab

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Herman Rubin wrote:
In article ,
nimue wrote:
toto wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:42:19 GMT, "nimue"
wrote:

toto wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 13:06:37 -0400, (Herman
Rubin) wrote:

.................

I am a teacher and ime, what you say is not true. I've taught both
HS math and preschool.

I teach high school English. I always failed math. I hate math.

Do you teach the English language or do you teach English
literature? Mathematics is closer to grammar than to any
other subject,

I know and this is what is strange -- I adore grammar. I really enjoy
reading about, learning about, teaching it.

and that is one subject which has almost
vanished.

True. I don't have to teach it, but I do.

Since WWII, the "in" thing in language is to
ignore structure and other things which speed up understanding,
and concentrate on learning to speak the way a child is
assumed to learn. My best language course, a one-year
college course in French, had me reading French without
translating, and I can still follow it with a Norman
accent if spoken slowly.

The mathematical analog to what is required in English
is to be able to use the language of mathematics to
formulate problems, and to understand what constitutes
a valid mathematical argument.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Herman Rubin wrote:
In article ,
nimue wrote:
Raving Beauty wrote:
nimue wrote:
toto wrote:
I am a
teacher and I can tell you that kids who get As usually do so
because they love learning.

Bull****.

Getting straight A's necessitates one PLAY THE GAME

What game? Doing all your homework?

Why? The only legitimate purpose for homework is to
help learn the material. If it is not needed for
that, it should not be assigned.

That's why it is assigned. It's called "spiraling" nowadays. Homework can
also be fun, believe it or not.

Writing all your essays?

If one or two satisfactory essays are written, what
is the purpose of the rest?

What do students need to grow as writers and critical thinkers? Practice.
Lots of practice.

Getting an A
average on tests and quizzes?

Do you not take into account improving during the term?
The first time I taught a class, a student got a good
A on the final, much better than earlier. I learned
then that it is the end result which should count.

Here's a secret -- at times I agree with you. If a kid makes a phenomenal
improvement, I will give that kid the higher grade. If a kid was just
cutting the beginning of the term, or goofing off, I won't.

Completing all your projects?

Unless there is a VERY good reason for projects, they
should be abolished.

God no! They are FUN. This is one of the things the kids enjoy most.
Projects give kids the opportunity to work together and to use all the
multiple intelligences.

Showing up to
class every day?

Who cares? What matters is what they learn, and
even more important, what they understand.

Kids learn from class discussion. I can just tell them what a poem means,
or they can discover what it means for themselves during class. That is
what class is for. That's why we have it. The students learn from one
another and the teacher. I have never had a student who didn't learn new
skills from other students.

That is what you are graded on. That is not a game --
that is school.

You are part of the problem.

What problem? I want kids to learn and to enjoy learning? What solution to
this "problem" do you suggest?
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX:
(765)494-0558

Purdue? Is Dr. Kirby still there? Brilliant man. Brilliant teacher. I
wonder what he thinks of you.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Herman Rubin wrote:
In article ,
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"Linda Gore" wrote:
There is NO chance that persons who had to sacrifice EVERYTHING,
most especially their conscience and morals, just to get their
degrees, then get and keep their teaching license are not going to
make damn sure their students are forced to make the same damn
sacrifices.

Feel free to not play the game. Feel free to starve. Rarely will
someone pay you for doing what you want instead of what they want.

That's life. Live with it.

This is also why most of the academic people I know would
like to abolish the schools of education.

FWIW, I hated every education class I ever took. My bachelor's and master's
are subject area, baby. The only ed classes I ever took were the ones I was
forced to take for my teaching license.

They teach
their students in such a way that they cannot learn to
think later. They correctly claim that they cannot
think "outside the box", not realizing that it is they
who have made the walls of the box thick and high.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...

If one or two satisfactory essays are written, what
is the purpose of the rest?

To improve the writing from satisfactory to excellent.

Thank you, yes. It's a process and it lasts forever, actually.

Unless there is a VERY good reason for projects, they
should be abolished.

Learning is a very good reason.

I agree!


Showing up to
class every day?

Who cares? What matters is what they learn, and
even more important, what they understand.

I have to agree here. I did not always show up to class in college.
As long as I understood the material, I was fine studying at home.
If I was having difficulty, then I would attend class to help clarify
the material.

Well, I am talking about high school, middle school, and grade school.
Those kids should show up every day. I think you should in college, too,
but I can see an argument there.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Herman Rubin wrote:
In article ,
toypup wrote:

"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
Some people have complained that certain courses get
grades above 4.0. This is to get "straight A" students
to take the honors courses instead of the weak stuff;
the honors courses are still lower level than the
regular college preparatory program before WWII.

How do you know that?


One would have to be deaf and dumb not to know that.

Does that mean you can't cite your source? Does that mean you don't have a
source?

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Herman Rubin wrote:
In article ,
toypup wrote:

"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...

If one or two satisfactory essays are written, what
is the purpose of the rest?

To improve the writing from satisfactory to excellent.

This is unlikely to happen, unless the reason for lack
of excellence is technical.

It is. Good lord, do you have any idea how high school students write?
They have very little technical skill. That is one of our biggest
challenges.

Unless there is a VERY good reason for projects, they
should be abolished.

Learning is a very good reason.

Only in rare cases do projects help learning. I would
doubt that this would be the case in English, the subject
under discussion.

Do you know what a project is?

Showing up to
class every day?

Who cares? What matters is what they learn, and
even more important, what they understand.

I have to agree here. I did not always show up to class in college.
As long as I understood the material, I was fine studying at home.
If I was having difficulty, then I would attend class to help
clarify the material.

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
toypup wrote:

"Herman Rubin" wrote in message
...
Some people have complained that certain courses get
grades above 4.0. This is to get "straight A" students
to take the honors courses instead of the weak stuff;
the honors courses are still lower level than the
regular college preparatory program before WWII.

How do you know that?


One would have to be deaf and dumb not to know that.

I have asked you a good question and you owe me an apology.

I second that. You owe toypup an apology for your implication and you also
owe her a source.

You might
possibly be right about the college prep work. However, one would
have to be able to compare college prep work before WWII and now.
How have you done that?

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah