milk supply, night weaning, pumping, and menstruation questions

My daughter, who is 22.5 months old, is an enthusiastic nurser, and I
look forward to continuing our nursing relationship as long as she and
I both want to continue it.

But, as the mother of an older nursling I now have some questions that
aren't addressed specifically in the books.

1. I'm still not menstruating. I felt menstrual last week, and
spotted a slight amount (there was some blood when I wiped, but
nothing more). I don't have questions about this specifically, but
it's related to further questions that I do have.

2. Kivi has started sleeping more at night. Ever since she started
teething at 6 months, she quit sleeping so well at night. On bad
nights she'd wake many many times, but most nights only twice. I
resisted the doctor's not-so-subtle hints about night weaning to get
her to sleep all night. I figure as long as it's only once or twice a
night, I don't have a problem with it, and she'll sleep all night in
her own time. I'm just lazy really, and night weaning seemed more
trouble - and possibly traumatic-- than just nursing her a couple
times a night. But two nights in the row she skipped her middle of
the night feeding. I put her down around 9pm, and she didn't wake up
until 4:30am and 5:00am two nights in a row. She did insist on nursing
on both sides those mornings (her usual is to nurse just one side).
Last night she woke up her usual twice. But if this becomes the norm,
will this cause supply issues? And will my periods be more likely to
return?

3. Kivi goes to daycare 3 days per week. At first I still pumped once
about 1:00 in the afternoon, and gave her the expressed milk in the
evenings when she came home (I don't bother to store it - she hates
the taste after just a few days, and only takes it if it's fresh).
But frankly, pumping is a lot of trouble! I'd rather skip, and she
LOVES how milky I am when she gets home. But if I do this 3 days in a
row every week, is this going to cause me supply problems? Between
night weaning and this, is there likely to be a problem? I've never
had milk supply problems - always seemed to have plenty. I want Kivi
to wean on her own time, not because I no longer have milk in
abundance, and if continuing to pump once a day on the days she's not
with me, is something I'm willing to do, even though it's a hassle.

4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.

Thanks,

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
om...
My daughter, who is 22.5 months old, is an enthusiastic nurser, and I
look forward to continuing our nursing relationship as long as she and
I both want to continue it.

But, as the mother of an older nursling I now have some questions that
aren't addressed specifically in the books.

1. I'm still not menstruating. I felt menstrual last week, and
spotted a slight amount (there was some blood when I wiped, but
nothing more). I don't have questions about this specifically, but
it's related to further questions that I do have.

2. Kivi has started sleeping more at night. Ever since she started
teething at 6 months, she quit sleeping so well at night. On bad
nights she'd wake many many times, but most nights only twice. I
resisted the doctor's not-so-subtle hints about night weaning to get
her to sleep all night. I figure as long as it's only once or twice a
night, I don't have a problem with it, and she'll sleep all night in
her own time. I'm just lazy really, and night weaning seemed more
trouble - and possibly traumatic-- than just nursing her a couple
times a night. But two nights in the row she skipped her middle of
the night feeding. I put her down around 9pm, and she didn't wake up
until 4:30am and 5:00am two nights in a row. She did insist on nursing
on both sides those mornings (her usual is to nurse just one side).
Last night she woke up her usual twice. But if this becomes the norm,
will this cause supply issues? And will my periods be more likely to
return?

3. Kivi goes to daycare 3 days per week. At first I still pumped once
about 1:00 in the afternoon, and gave her the expressed milk in the
evenings when she came home (I don't bother to store it - she hates
the taste after just a few days, and only takes it if it's fresh).
But frankly, pumping is a lot of trouble! I'd rather skip, and she
LOVES how milky I am when she gets home. But if I do this 3 days in a
row every week, is this going to cause me supply problems? Between
night weaning and this, is there likely to be a problem? I've never
had milk supply problems - always seemed to have plenty. I want Kivi
to wean on her own time, not because I no longer have milk in
abundance, and if continuing to pump once a day on the days she's not
with me, is something I'm willing to do, even though it's a hassle.

4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.

Thanks,

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01


I can't help with much of this, only to say that in my recent experience if
you have been b/f for a long time your body seems to cope with changes quite
easily.

The other week when DS was ill, he fed every hour and when he wanted it, it
was there. He hasn't fed at all in the night (Last feed 7pm , morning one
after 6am) for 6 months but we had no problems with supply.

Not much help, but a little I hope.

Clare

Regarding pumping for a toddler:

I quit pumping for each of my children at around 12.5 to 13 months. They all
went to daycare--my sons were going four days a week, about five to six hours a
day; my daughter goes five days a week, five to six hours a day. They drink
whatever they drink at daycare--whole milk and juice. They nurse(d) at home.
It never seemed to affect my supply at all, but then all three were frequent
nursers (my daughter still is) at home.

My daughter is two and she frequently will nurse once in the wee hours of the
morning (we cosleep).

Mary Ellen
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (2)

Cathy Weeks wrote:

1. I'm still not menstruating. I felt menstrual last week, and
spotted a slight amount (there was some blood when I wiped, but
nothing more). I don't have questions about this specifically, but
it's related to further questions that I do have.

Color me jealous :-).

But if this becomes the norm,
will this cause supply issues? And will my periods be more likely to
return?

P is down to one night nurse, with occasional sleep-throughs (last night
was one). I haven't had any supply issues...he's been sick lately and
nursing more and as far as I can tell, I'm keeping up with it. As for
your periods...I'm not sure. But ISTR that people talk about night
weaning as when periods come back. But don't quote me.

4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.

Like I said above, P still isn't regularly. We did have one month, but
then we went to the US and he hasn't slept through more than twice since
then (August?). I know another 2 year old up the road who doesn't as
well...and a 3 yo who is iffy :-).

When's Kivi's b-day? P is Dec 23.
--
'Tis Herself

(Herself) wrote in message ...
Cathy Weeks wrote:

When's Kivi's b-day? P is Dec 23.

December 12th - and it was her due date. I can't believe she's almost
two. It seems like only a few weeks ago she was being laid on my
belly!

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

(Cathy Weeks) wrote in message . com...
My daughter, who is 22.5 months old, is an enthusiastic nurser, and I
look forward to continuing our nursing relationship as long as she and
I both want to continue it.

But, as the mother of an older nursling I now have some questions that
aren't addressed specifically in the books.

1. I'm still not menstruating. I felt menstrual last week, and
spotted a slight amount (there was some blood when I wiped, but
nothing more). I don't have questions about this specifically, but
it's related to further questions that I do have.


I'm so jealous! My period came back when Solana (now 29 months) was
two months old (and exclusively nursing). This may relate to my
answers!

2. Kivi has started sleeping more at night. Ever since she started
teething at 6 months, she quit sleeping so well at night. snip
Last night she woke up her usual twice. But if this becomes the norm,
will this cause supply issues? And will my periods be more likely to
return?

I don't think it will cause supply issues, I think it's still supply
and demand, even though it may not seem like it anymore.

I've heard that this could make your period more likely to return, but
you're getting into the territory beyond which few women go without a
period, regardless of reason, from what I've heard. I don't know if
this is because most kids sleep more by age 2, fewer mothers still
nurse by then, or many 2 year olds nurse seldom, but my friend who
went the longest I've heard (In real life, without starting
menopause!) only went just under 2 years without a period, and her
daughter was sleeping through since four or five months.


3. Kivi goes to daycare 3 days per week. At first I still pumped once
about 1:00 in the afternoon, and gave her the expressed milk in the
evenings when she came home (I don't bother to store it - she hates
the taste after just a few days, and only takes it if it's fresh).
But frankly, pumping is a lot of trouble! I'd rather skip, and she
LOVES how milky I am when she gets home. But if I do this 3 days in a
row every week, is this going to cause me supply problems? Between
night weaning and this, is there likely to be a problem? I've never
had milk supply problems - always seemed to have plenty. I want Kivi
to wean on her own time, not because I no longer have milk in
abundance, and if continuing to pump once a day on the days she's not
with me, is something I'm willing to do, even though it's a hassle.

I'd skip it. Both of my girls have been allowed to wean on their own
schedule, and both have been very casual about it (Lana's still
nursing sometimes), but both have told me that there's still plenty of
milk, even when they skip several days in a row, and I've never had an
abundant supply, either. Lana's been skipping a lot of days lately
because of her nighttime medicines and her scheldule, and last week
she skipped 5 days and then nursed, and definitely told me there was
enough milk.



4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.


I don't think either of mine did at that age. Solana slept through
for several months in the crib (I let her cry once she'd turned a year
and was still nursing every hour), but after I moved her to a bed when
she was getting hurt climbing around (about 18 months -- and she was
cosleeping prior to the crib, but was getting into danger sneaking out
of bed, hence the crib -- she's a handful) she started waking again.
I won't nurse her at night because it encourages her getting up [I
know, it sounds terrible, but this child really needs limits, some of
it medically indicated, some of it temperamentally indicated ; )], but
she still gets up at least one time a night now, but goes back to
sleep very easily. Sage started sleeping through consistently at
about 2, when she weaned.

Best of Luck!

Tina.


Thanks,

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
om...
My daughter, who is 22.5 months old, is an enthusiastic nurser, and I
look forward to continuing our nursing relationship as long as she and
I both want to continue it.

But, as the mother of an older nursling I now have some questions that
aren't addressed specifically in the books.

1. I'm still not menstruating. I felt menstrual last week, and
spotted a slight amount (there was some blood when I wiped, but
nothing more). I don't have questions about this specifically, but
it's related to further questions that I do have.

You are so lucky!!! I got mine back at 4 months even when I was nursing
around the clock! Sounds to me that as you're pumping when you aren't with
her etc that your body is still thinking that you have a younger baby who
feed so regularly. They may come back once you change your routine, some
women don't get them back until they stop nursing though.

2. Kivi has started sleeping more at night. Ever since she started
teething at 6 months, she quit sleeping so well at night. On bad
nights she'd wake many many times, but most nights only twice. I
resisted the doctor's not-so-subtle hints about night weaning to get
her to sleep all night. I figure as long as it's only once or twice a
night, I don't have a problem with it, and she'll sleep all night in
her own time. I'm just lazy really, and night weaning seemed more
trouble - and possibly traumatic-- than just nursing her a couple
times a night. But two nights in the row she skipped her middle of
the night feeding. I put her down around 9pm, and she didn't wake up
until 4:30am and 5:00am two nights in a row. She did insist on nursing
on both sides those mornings (her usual is to nurse just one side).
Last night she woke up her usual twice. But if this becomes the norm,
will this cause supply issues? And will my periods be more likely to
return?

Hey if she's showing signs of sleeping through I'd say encourage her, if
only to get more sleep yourself. (And by encourage I mean follow her cue, no
cry it out suggestions from me). Your milk supply is so established now that
you mustn't worry about it. If this becomes the norm that she has that big
feed in the morning, then your milk supply will adjust from having that milk
at night to in the morning. It's a marvellous system.

I do think your periods may well return as you'll be having longer gaps
between feeds. I think the general rule of thumb (which is always broken by
someone, myself included) is that feeding around the clock every 2-3 hours
will prevent periods returning, so larger gaps will encourage their return.


3. Kivi goes to daycare 3 days per week. At first I still pumped once
about 1:00 in the afternoon, and gave her the expressed milk in the
evenings when she came home (I don't bother to store it - she hates
the taste after just a few days, and only takes it if it's fresh).
But frankly, pumping is a lot of trouble! I'd rather skip, and she
LOVES how milky I am when she gets home. But if I do this 3 days in a
row every week, is this going to cause me supply problems? Between
night weaning and this, is there likely to be a problem? I've never
had milk supply problems - always seemed to have plenty. I want Kivi
to wean on her own time, not because I no longer have milk in
abundance, and if continuing to pump once a day on the days she's not
with me, is something I'm willing to do, even though it's a hassle.

You will continue to have milk in abundance at the times when Kivi nurses.
Yes, if you stop pumping at 1pm then your body won't make that milk for that
expressing session anymore. But your body will adjust around your routine.
Some women only feed twice a day during the week and then BF all around the
clock at weekends - and their supply adjusts. Yours will too around your
routine. You do not need to pump now to keep up your supply. Frankly you
could probably leave Kivi for a few days and still come home full of milk.


4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.

I don't know. Mine never slept and then finally did 10 till 6 when she was
20 months, following it up by sleeping through for 10 hours (she never did
12, still doesn't at 3!!) pretty shortly afterwards. i think that lots of
babies, especially formula fed ones start of sleeping early and then by 2
are being little monkeys and causing sleep trouble.

Nikki


Thanks,

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

I'm just lazy really, and night weaning seemed more
trouble - and possibly traumatic-- than just nursing her a couple
times a night.

Heh. I'm with you on that. With DS it was rarely more than once a night, and
basically as soon as we put him in a bed rather than a crib, even that
disappeared. If you don't co-sleep all the time, consider ditching the crib.
Now instead of waking fully and standing up in his crib wailing for me to come
get him, after which the only way to get him back to sleep was to nurse him
down, DS just gets up and trots into our bedroom on his own, climbs into bed
next to me, and goes right back to sleep without nursing. I don't even wake
up.

Plus, at bedtime I (or DH) can lie down with him and then get up after he's
asleep, which is easier than nursing him down on the couch or elsewhere and
then lifting him into the crib.

But frankly, pumping is a lot of trouble! I'd rather skip, and she
LOVES how milky I am when she gets home. But if I do this 3 days in a
row every week, is this going to cause me supply problems?

No, it's not. I stopped pumping altogether when DS was 13 months. I work full
time. He still sometimes nursed during the day on weekends, and he never
complained about the supply! (Like you, I never had a touchy supply to begin
with.)

He's now almost 33 months and still nursing quite regularly once, and sometimes
2-3x, a day. I'm sure I could wean him if I thought it worth the effort, but I
don't, and I don't foresee him weaning completely any time real soon.

4. I'm curious how many 22 month olds don't sleep through the night
like Kivi does? The No Cry Sleep Solution said that 40% of two-year
olds doesn't, but that seems high from what I hear from other parents.

That statistic sounds about right to me, actually. Maybe my friends are more
honest about their toddlers' sleep habits than yours. ;-)

DS sometimes sleeps through the night, but more often not. It's just that, as
I said above, he usually no longer wakes *me* up when he gets up. I can live
with that. :-)

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

(HollyLewis) wrote in message ...
I'm just lazy really, and night weaning seemed more
trouble - and possibly traumatic-- than just nursing her a couple
times a night.

Heh. I'm with you on that. With DS it was rarely more than once a night, and
basically as soon as we put him in a bed rather than a crib, even that
disappeared. If you don't co-sleep all the time, consider ditching the crib.

Never had a crib. She slept between us in a Snuggle Nest until she
was 7 months old, then we built a sidecar for her (rails are only 8
inches above the surface of the mattress). The only problem? She
sometimes flops off her bed onto me! I can't sleep through that!

Now instead of waking fully and standing up in his crib wailing for me to come
get him, after which the only way to get him back to sleep was to nurse him
down, DS just gets up and trots into our bedroom on his own, climbs into bed
next to me, and goes right back to sleep without nursing. I don't even wake
up.

Plus, at bedtime I (or DH) can lie down with him and then get up after he's
asleep, which is easier than nursing him down on the couch or elsewhere and
then lifting him into the crib.

He's now almost 33 months and still nursing quite regularly once, and sometimes
2-3x, a day. I'm sure I could wean him if I thought it worth the effort, but I
don't, and I don't foresee him weaning completely any time real soon.

Wow. How often was he nursing a year ago? (When he was Kivi's age? 22
months) Kivi nurses pretty frequently. She nurses when we wake up in
the morning, before nap, after nap, and at bedtime. Those are the
major nurses, but she of course likes to snack and comfort nurse. And
if she's sick - I think her preferred thing to do would be to stay
latched on and not come off! (Alas - I don't have *that* kind of
patience).

DS sometimes sleeps through the night, but more often not. It's just that, as
I said above, he usually no longer wakes *me* up when he gets up. I can live
with that.

I wish I weren't such a light sleeper!

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

Wow. How often was he nursing a year ago? (When he was Kivi's age? 22
months) Kivi nurses pretty frequently. She nurses when we wake up in
the morning, before nap, after nap, and at bedtime. Those are the
major nurses, but she of course likes to snack and comfort nurse.

Mine never was a snacker. Good thing, because that would really annoy me!

Also, I WOH, so most days he simply didn't have the opportunity to nurse before
napping, for example.

So, at 22 months, he was nursing twice a day -- bedtime, and first thing in the
morning. Sometimes once during the night, and sometimes in the afternoon on a
weekend, but usually just those 2x. He's been pretty much on that same
schedule since 18 months, when we dropped the after-work session, until now,
except that in the last few months he sometimes gets up without nursing in the
morning.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs