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#391
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Is there an equation ?
Cathy Kearns wrote: As much as Ian may be insular in assuming every place is scary like his neighborhood, I think it is equally insular assuming from countrywide statistics that everyplace is not scary, because where I live in the United States in not scary. Or, just because he can't imagine what your neighborhood is like does not mean you can imagine what his neighborhood is like, despite global statistics. True, but Ian didn't give any details to help explain why he thinks it's so dangerous out there. If he had said, "I can't let my 8-year-old walk to school because he'd have to pass 5 crack houses," or "I can't let my 8-year-old walk to school because he'd have to cross two 4-lane highways," I don't think anybody would have questioned it. I'm not surprised that there are people in situations like that; I *am* surprised that anybody would think that's the only kind of situation out there. Clisby |
#392
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"Jenn" wrote in message ... In article xtySb.59400$U%5.344974@attbi_s03, "P. Tierney" wrote: "Michelle Spina" wrote: I don't know if it's because I'm in a weird mood, or if it's because I started reading this thread after it was huge (and therefore not emotionally invested in any way), but I haven't read Ian's posts in this way at all. In fact, for the most part, I've been surprised at how rudely he's been treated. Is it rude to: -- accuse those who claim to have had easier parenting experiences as you as being liars? -- accuse parents of neglect for not parenting as he does? -- write in a great deal of detail about how his child is raised, but refusing to answer or clarify questions about apparant inconsistencies in his statements? Add in his negative-only comments about his child and parenting experience, his refusal to acknowledge that any parenting experience is different from his, etc., and I'm not surprised at all that he is, at times, being treated as he is. Right or wrong, when one write as he does on the Usenet, especially with the accusations of lying, then the tea party is pretty much over. have you considered that this poster might well be mentally disabled? Something along the lines of depression was brought up awhile back, along with a few other things, including fiction writer. I hope it's the latter. P. Tierney |
#393
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"Banty" wrote: To me, what USENET is so good for is to get other perspectives, which is what Ian's been getting. But it hasn't been particularly kindly presented to him, and I give him kudos for sticking it out anyway. I don't. He wrote things, very early on, like regarding leaving his kid along in a room at all, "It is not a centre of attention thing. It is a safety issue." And, "Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped?" The former was brought up as an issue for discussion, and he never entered it. The latter, he appeared to be doing the same to those with multiple kids, and he never addressed that either. And there was his assertion that those who claimed experiences other than his must be lying. One can't respond to everything, but those are key points that were brought up repeatedly, and he chose lighter diversions to tackle. No kudos from me. P. Tierney |
#394
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:42:53 -0000, "Ian" wrote:
I remember a report in the local paper a few months back. A 9 year old went missing on the way to school. She was safe, just at a friends house, but the parents were hauled up in front of social services for letting a child that age walk to school alone. I wonder why this is true in Scotland.. It doesn't seem that Scotland is that dangerous in terms of children being abducted by strangers. I suspect that your social services have gone way overboard. Children need to be independent. Different time and place, but when I grew up, we walked everywhere all over our town. It was a town of 10,000 and yes there were some incidents of strangers molesting kids. OTOH, this was not usual and it still is not the norm here. I don't think that parents and children should live in fear of things that are relatively rare. Teach your child to be aware of his or her surroundings and to drop everything and run if s/he feels that s/he is being followed or is in any danger. Make sure they know you won't be angry at them for losing books, papers and backpacks. But, don't make them think that danger is lurking around every corner either. How in the world do the kids ever grow up if the world is such a scary place to their parents? -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#395
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Clisby wrote:
I hadn't realized until today that Ian lives in Scotland. Maybe I shouldn't dismiss, out of hand, the possibility that Scotland is inherently far more dangerous than the U.S.? I don't have any reason to think so, but I've never been in Scotland. Any U.K.'ers who aren't thoroughly sick of this discussion by now - can you tell us? Clisby I knew that Ian didn't live in the States, but I assumed (wrongly) that he was in Germany (something to do with his email routing). Anyway, maybe he is overprotective in not letting his 8 year old walk to school, but I don't think that's so unusual these days. Where I live in Maryland (seems like a safe typical suburbs with sidewalks), a very large chunk of the elementary school children are driven by their parents or nanny to school, so much so that many buses arrive at the school with only 3-6 children on them. I also see parents walking to school to pick up their children - it's like a mass migration of neighborhood parents from their homes and then another mass exodus back to their cul-de-sacs. A child couldn't walk alone even if he/she wanted to. |
#396
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Is there an equation ?
Cathy Kearns wrote:
As much as Ian may be insular in assuming every place is scary like his neighborhood, I think it is equally insular assuming from countrywide statistics that everyplace is not scary, because where I live in the United States in not scary. Or, just because he can't imagine what your neighborhood is like does not mean you can imagine what his neighborhood is like, despite global statistics. Ian claimed that the policy of requiring parents to stay with their children on school grounds until school started and of not allowing children to walk alone until the age of 10 was the norm in Scotland as a whole, however. He did not say it applied only to his neighborhood. I agree with you that countrywide statistics do not translate to individual neighborhoods, but Ian has not claimed that his *neighborhood* is the problem. He has claimed that the Scottish government *requires* parents to maintain constant supervision of kids under the age of 10. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#397
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:27:56 -0500, "Sophie"
wrote: but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual! My *dad* did that with baked beans once. My mom went on a cooking strike. He didn't know to heat up baked beans you had to take them out of the can (seriously). Baked beans on the ceiling. He just painted over them so we had a lumpy ceiling - lol. My brother did it with caramel sauce once. He was making it by boiling the tin of condensed milk for 3 hours and let the pan boil dry. The tin exploded! I think he was about 18 Megan -- Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth) To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com |
#398
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Banty wrote in message ...
In article , Nan says... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:18:19 GMT, "toypup" wrote: "Nan" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:46:18 GMT, "toypup" wrote: He's now living in another state. My mom can't understand why he'd want to do that. He called her one night after burning some food on the stove. She was upset that he had a girlfriend that made him cook (he likes to cook), he was up that late (11pm, he's a night owl), he could be home and have her do the cooking for him, why is he living so far away? Why is he living away from home, cooking for himself, when he could be home with her and she could be cooking for him? She doesn't get it. It must be that "after all I've done for you" kind of mindset that people who over-parent tend to have. You've described her perfectly. And I don't even know her :-D But I've met so many women like that, they drive me buggy. Nan Mostly older women? My mom is a *little* like that, but I have seen it mostly in older women. They're self-defined mainly by motherhood and what they can do for dependants. It makes dependancy a precious thing to them. Of course personality aspects come into it also. I'd say personality is a big factor. My mom, 70 yrs old, very much has defined her entire adult life by Motherhood (she became a mom at 21). After 20 years at home, she eventually had an outside job to earn some extra cash, which was basically to be able to give us more things. She really devoted 100% of her life to her family. She's a prime candidate for this sort of person. However, amazingly, she's not the sort to say "after all I've done for you" or to thrive on dependancy. Quite the opposite - she encourages independence. Tho she does like to feel *wanted,* she appears to be ok at not being "needed." I actually DID worry about that at one time, as we'd all reached adulthood and she was making the transition. Maybe it's because she has grandkids to dote on? Point simply, yeah, I think personality has a lot to do with it. Though that probably also has a lot to do with whether or not someone is likely to over-parent. |
#399
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In article keBSb.6517$fD.3649@fed1read02, "Circe"
wrote: Cathy Kearns wrote: As much as Ian may be insular in assuming every place is scary like his neighborhood, I think it is equally insular assuming from countrywide statistics that everyplace is not scary, because where I live in the United States in not scary. Or, just because he can't imagine what your neighborhood is like does not mean you can imagine what his neighborhood is like, despite global statistics. Ian claimed that the policy of requiring parents to stay with their children on school grounds until school started and of not allowing children to walk alone until the age of 10 was the norm in Scotland as a whole, however. He did not say it applied only to his neighborhood. I agree with you that countrywide statistics do not translate to individual neighborhoods, but Ian has not claimed that his *neighborhood* is the problem. He has claimed that the Scottish government *requires* parents to maintain constant supervision of kids under the age of 10. When my kids attended a K-8 school, we WERE asked to not leave our kids alone at school more than about 20 mintues before school started. Apparently, they'd had some problems with large groups of unsupervised kids (don't know what the problems were) who were getting to school as much as an hour before school started, and did not have the staff to supervise outside for that long. (I don't know why all the kids were there that early, but at least some of them were being dropped off that early so their parents could leave for work.) meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#400
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:23:06 -0500, Nan wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual! If Scotland requires parents to be so protective as to have Social services involved for letting a 9 year old walk to school, I'm curious to see if it's over-involvement by the govt, or if it truly is so dangerous. Or Ian is making it up. I can see Social Services taking unaccompanied walking to school as a factor in a wider pattern of neglect, though even then it would be if it meant the kids were hanging around before/after school, or if their route to school was inherently unsafe, rather than parents waving them off at 8.50 and greeting them at 3.40 (or whatever). I can't see it happening for nothing more than letting a kid walk to school on their own at age 8. Most of my recent research has been around children who are in care, so its not something I well read up on. I do know that there is a campaign to increase the number of kids walking to school in the interests of child health and that this includes improving safety for children walking to school on their own. (A colleague is doing some research on Childhood Obesity at teh moment). Annecdotally, when we were up in Scotland at New Year, I noticed that my nephews' school, along with others in the area, have established well signposted safe routes to school, with painted trails on the footpaths diverting kids to the safer routes and towards the attended crossing points. And finally - given that older kids can cross the streets themselves (I was taught this from about age 10) why on earth do we both having crossing wardens here! Megan -- Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth) To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com |
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