Define the "Terrible Twos" for me?

toto wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:13:45 GMT, "Jim Beaver"
wrote:

I'm the original poster who asked the question. First, thanks to all of you
(even the perfect parent) for answering. I asked the question in the form I
did, seeking observational and generic responses because I didn't want to
start off by describing my situation and thus generating answers that
unconsciously remodeled my situation into the situational experience of the
respondent. At any rate, here's what I've got going on:

My two-year-old (+ 3 mos.) has been an incredible child, mellow, outgoing,
extremely compliant yet lively and assertive. Suddenly last week, she began
having periods of near- or total hysteria--wanting to be picked up but
immediately wanting to be put down if we picked her up, asking for all kinds
of things and activities yet instantly reversing course the moment we made
any attempt to act on her request, saying "no" to everything offered or
suggested, yet also saying "no" to the withdrawal of those offers and
suggestions, asking for a bottle then pushing it away the moment it was
handed to her, all at a rising level of hysteria. None of it seemed to be
deliberately oppositional behavior. Rather it just seemed that she suddenly
had no idea whatsoever what she wanted and was asking for everything she
thought of and then rejecting it if she got it. Trying to hold her and calm
her escalated the situation immensely until she was screaming and crying
uncontrollably. Yet leaving her to her own devices or even completely
ignoring her led to similar escalation.

This certainly doesn't sound age related..

Has her caregiver changed? Could something have happened that
frightened her when you were not around?

The worst part was that she began waking up once or twice a night,
going instantly from a dead sleep to this same hysteria, and keeping
it up sometimes for a couple of hours.

Two is a common age for the beginning of nightmares. Night
Terrors is also a possibility if you think she is not really waking
up fully when you try to comfort her.


She always used to wake up at least once a night and have a bottle,
but always went quickly back to sleep, calmly. This sudden new turn
of events is not calm, nor does it include a bottle, which she now
rejects and asks for in rapid succession, but never takes. She
eventually conks out after a couple of hours, but sometimes starts
the same routine over again an hour or two later. In the past six days,
I've averaged 3.5-to 4.5 hours sleep a night, NONE of it consecutive.
I'm at my physical and mental rope's end.

((((((((((((((((((Jim)))))))))))))))))))))))

I can see why.

She is taking carbatrol, a medication to prevent seizure activity, to which
she has shown some propensity. But this medication has been part of her
normal life for a long time. When I first described the hysterics and the
"no's", a lot of people told me, "Oh, it's the terrible twos." But after
reading your many responses describing, without knowing the details of MY
situation, what YOUR idea of the TT's is, it seems to me this is something
different. Particularly the part about the sudden hysterics upon waking in
the middle of the night.

Has the dosage of the medication changed? Has anything in her diet
changed? Is her routine the same?

Have you spoken to your pediatrician about this? Perhaps there has
been a change in her body chemistry that causes a reaction to the
medication. I wouldn't presume to know if this is even possible, but
your doctor might be able to help.


Anyone have any ideas? I'm a 53 year old man with no one to help
me during the night, and in less than a week, I've been driven nearly
insane from exhaustion and worry about myself and my daughter.
I cannot possibly continue in the current state of affairs until she's
three or four! I'm not sure I can make Saturday.

This is a tough situation all around.

How verbal is she? Can you sit down with her when she is not
hysterical and see if you can talk to her about her feelings?

Can you ask her to draw a picture of what is making her scared?
or angry? It's awfully hard to know what to do.

Jim Beaver

Jim,

Did you ever respond to Peggy? I thought that she was very
informative and nice in her responses. She has more to offer than me.
My 10 year old also takes a preventive seizure medication. I have
noted some changes in his behavior also, but opposite of what your
seeing. He was more high strung and since his seizure seems somewhat
less high strung. We may both have to see a physican about our
children's behavior or discuss it once again with our neurologist.

wrote:

My middle child was a bit of a nightmare at 2, and I did
hold the line with her. I remember carrying her, kicking and
screaming, out of a mall once.

Once? Wow.

--Helen, who is completely unable to count the times she has carried squalling
toddlers out of places

Bev Brandt wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...

What gets me about fives is that they're *so*
rule bound--but it's *their* rules ;-)


And when does this stop, exactly? Right now I'm going through the "Terrible Eights."


Yeah, I've got a six year old who's still in the
rule-bound phase and an eight year old who's having a
bit of a "terrible" phase himself (everything's "impossible"
but by God we're not going to believe anyone who tries
to help us find the right answer).

Best wishes,
Ericka

(Bev Brandt) wrote in message . com...
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...
Joanie wrote:

I love two's and ever threes... It's 4's and 5's that drive me batty! They
know it ALL by 5 years old and they drive me nutts!


What gets me about fives is that they're *so*
rule bound--but it's *their* rules ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka


And when does this stop, exactly? Right now I'm going through the "Terrible Eights."

Having just had my parents to our house for the Thanksgiving
holiday, I think my mom thinks I'm going through the Terrible
Thirties. "No, Mom, I know you want to help, but I want to
do this MY WAY!" :-)

Beth

Penny Gaines wrote in message ...

I've got three children: they acted noticeably differently at the
ages 1.5 to 4 yo. One kid was incredibly easy, one was incredibly hard,
and the other was in the middle. So many of the differences are down to
the kid's temperament, rather then parenting skills.

As for not being able to express what he wants, I am sure it could be
real frustrating for some children, but my son is pretty good at
talking so that has not been an issue.

I don't think that covered the whole difference. The child who was
best at speaking early also had the worse tantrums. Conversely, the
kid who had very few words had the fewest tantrums.

I have the same experience. Three children, all different one from
another now and during their 2s and 3s (youngest is 3 and 3 mos.) and
the one who was the most verbal the earliest was the most difficult.
The current 3 y.o. is very verbal now, but he talked late and had
fewer tantrums than anyone.

The 2s and 3s seem to be a time when children start realizing that
they have wants that aren't going to be filled automatically (versus
needs that are filled sooner rather than later) and that they only
have a little control over how the world works. And different little
personalities handle this transition in, well...different ways!

My boys - my oldest child and youngest child - hate, hate, HATE
change! My oldest would cry and have a tantrum and generally freak out
if I were to do something like... park the car in the driveway on a
consistent basis rather than the garage.

Youngest hates that, too. But he only *comments* on it, he doesn't cry
about it. ("Nooooo! You park in garage!" "I can't today..." "Mphf...")
And if he does cry about something, he pulls himself together very
quickly, where my oldest could carry on for some time. And oldest was
the one who could have made better commentary since he talked well and
early! But no...

My girl had her share of issues when she was 2 and 3, but they only
seemed to come in spurts. Plus, if she was upset about something, she
tended to go off by herself for comfort, rather than pitch a fit in
public. (She still does that at 5.5)

Different kids, different "terribleness" of the 2s.

- Bev

wrote:

I only carried my ds out of public once. My dd, otoh.... she tried me
well enough for several kids ;-)
Talk about different temperaments!

Did you ever have to leave a full cart of groceries behind? That happened at
least once to my husband and once to me.

--Helen

I don't think it stops until they are over 18.... I have neices and nephews
who still have their moments! lol

--
Joanie

"You're stronger than you seem, smarter than you think, and braver than you
believe."
~Christopher Robin to Winnie the Pooh



"Bev Brandt" wrote in message
om...
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
...
Joanie wrote:

I love two's and ever threes... It's 4's and 5's that drive me batty!
They
know it ALL by 5 years old and they drive me nutts!


What gets me about fives is that they're *so*
rule bound--but it's *their* rules ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka


And when does this stop, exactly? Right now I'm going through the
"Terrible Eights."

- Bev

"Joanie" wrote in message
...
I don't think it stops until they are over 18.... I have neices and
nephews
who still have their moments! lol

The *only* cure is parenthood.

I don't know... I'm not a parents and I think I'm out of all of that LOL

--
Joanie

"You're stronger than you seem, smarter than you think, and braver than you
believe."
~Christopher Robin to Winnie the Pooh



"Markiosos2 Probertiosos2" wrote in message
et...

"Joanie" wrote in message
...
I don't think it stops until they are over 18.... I have neices and
nephews
who still have their moments! lol

The *only* cure is parenthood.