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#11
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10 ways to be a better father
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:53:45 -0700, Bob wrote:
toto wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:22:26 -0500, Kathy Cole wrote: I hope there's a middle ground for most people, where non-custodial parents (or joint-custodial parents in a disagreement over parenting time, which was the root of my example above) can get to some resolution other than fighting or walking away, but repetetive appearances in family court to ask for aid in enforcing orders is neither an easy nor a cheap process, and it's very wearing. Why isn't there an arbitration process that can be used instead of court appearances? Dorothy They ought to just give up violating the child's rights by forcing custody to either parent. Bob The thing is that the system *is* changing. I am sorry that individual men were harmed, but both men and women of good will have worked to change the custody laws. It is a slow process and that is never easy for those in the middle of it, but. http://members.tripod.com/~mdcrc/spgrowth.html Equal shared parenting now accounts for more than 20% of post-divorce living arrangements for children. Almost unheard of in 1970, shared parenting has grown at an extraordinary rate. Nationwide, equal shared parenting is selected by divorced families in increasing numbers each year. In some states, it has become the predominant form of child custody after divorce, accounting for nearly half of child custody awards. The rapid growth of shared parenting means that more and more children are being raised by two parents. The active involvement of both parents has been shown to benefit children regardless of their parents' marital situation. In addition, new research has shown that higher levels of shared parenting are linked with lower levels of divorce. In other words, states that have more shared parenting tend to have lower divorce rates. It is still too low, but it is growing and at a relatively high rate and with much success. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#12
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10 ways to be a better father
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:53:45 -0700, Bob wrote:
They ought to just give up violating the child's rights by forcing custody to either parent. Well, I agree with that and the research on joint custody and shared parenting supports that it is best for the children. But note the caveat. http://members.tripod.com/~mdcrc/jcbib.html Research on Shared Parenting and Joint Custody Joint custody and shared parenting (i.e., joint physical and legal custody) have been studied for more than a quarter-century, with the majority of studies indicating significant benefits for children. About a third of existing studies show no difference between joint and sole custody for children's adjustment to divorce. ************************************************** *********** The critical factor appears to be conflict between parents. ************************************************** ************ When parents cooperate and minimize conflict, children do better with shared parenting/joint physical custody. If there is significant conflict between parents, however, shared parenting provides no benefits and children do no better (and no worse) than they do in sole custody. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#13
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10 ways to be a better father
toto wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:53:45 -0700, Bob wrote: toto wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:22:26 -0500, Kathy Cole wrote: I hope there's a middle ground for most people, where non-custodial parents (or joint-custodial parents in a disagreement over parenting time, which was the root of my example above) can get to some resolution other than fighting or walking away, but repetetive appearances in family court to ask for aid in enforcing orders is neither an easy nor a cheap process, and it's very wearing. Why isn't there an arbitration process that can be used instead of court appearances? Dorothy They ought to just give up violating the child's rights by forcing custody to either parent. The thing is that the system *is* changing. I am sorry that individual men were harmed, but both men and women of good will have worked to change the custody laws. It is a slow process and that is never easy for those in the middle of it, but. There is no justification for illegal discrimination to continue. The excuse that it is a "slow" process is all too often used to justify ruining a man's family. There is no excuse for that. There is no excuse for those who accept misandry and anti-men injustice as reasonable. In California over the past few years NOW California spent $500,000 of the VAWA act money lobbying against changes that allow men joint custody in 15% of cases. There is no excuse for that level of misandry or for the tax supported funding of hate. Bob http://members.tripod.com/~mdcrc/spgrowth.html Equal shared parenting now accounts for more than 20% of post-divorce living arrangements for children. Almost unheard of in 1970, shared parenting has grown at an extraordinary rate. Nationwide, equal shared parenting is selected by divorced families in increasing numbers each year. In some states, it has become the predominant form of child custody after divorce, accounting for nearly half of child custody awards. The rapid growth of shared parenting means that more and more children are being raised by two parents. The active involvement of both parents has been shown to benefit children regardless of their parents' marital situation. In addition, new research has shown that higher levels of shared parenting are linked with lower levels of divorce. In other words, states that have more shared parenting tend to have lower divorce rates. It is still too low, but it is growing and at a relatively high rate and with much success. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#14
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10 ways to be a better father
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:29:59 -0600, toto wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:22:26 -0500, Kathy Cole wrote: I hope there's a middle ground for most people, where non-custodial parents (or joint-custodial parents in a disagreement over parenting time, which was the root of my example above) can get to some resolution other than fighting or walking away, but repetetive appearances in family court to ask for aid in enforcing orders is neither an easy nor a cheap process, and it's very wearing. Why isn't there an arbitration process that can be used instead of court appearances? Depends on the country, and province/state and their laws. I believe mediation is available but not mandatory here; it may be mandatory prior to seeing a judge in other states. |
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10 ways to be a better father
dragonlady ) writes:
In article , (Andre Lieven) wrote: dragonlady ) writes: In article , How do you know what I have and have not gotten involved in supporting and protesting? Call it a judicious use of " house odds ". In other words, your own bigotry about women. LOL ! So, reading Consumers Report on new car buying, when one is about to buy, is " bigotry against car makers " ? You *are* funny. Read " Lip Service; The Turth About Women's Darker Side In LOve Sex And Friendship ", by Kate Fillion. You assume you know what I have and have not done based on no information whatsoever, other than that I am a woman and say I support equality. LOL. You just contradicted yourself, there, little lady. Try again. How did I contradict myself, little man? " no information, *other than... " The former is directly contradicted by the latter. Take another ESL course, and... pass it this time. Your *posted words* were what led me to my conclusion. It appears... I was quite right. laughs Some of those things I've protested, some I have not. I don't agree with you 100% -- that does not make me a man hater, it means I think you are sometimes wrong. LOL. Yet, you CAN'T show how. Why should I have to? You haven't gone into details about how you have supported or opposed various causes. Isn't it enough that I tell you I have? Nope. Or are you saying that I can't show how I think you are wrong about some things? Again, I'm not particularly interested in doing that. Your laziness is your own problem... Got it. Some women are jerks, some men are jerks, and MY experience is that they come in about equal numbers -- " The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "... Exactly why I said "in MY experience" -- Since the TOPIC *wansn't* about *you*, then this was merly narcissistic irrelevence on your part. More proof that... I was right about you. You frequently are speaking from your own experience. What do you call that? My experience greatly includes DATA.... Look it up. " House odds "... it isn't evidence or statistical or anything else, only speaking from my own experience. I can do that, can't I? Sure. And, others can bring attention to the narcissism that it is. No, speaking from your own experience is called "authenticity". Wrong. Or, is free speech only for *you* ? Have I ever suggested that you -- or anyone else -- should not speak? You implied it, yes. By ASSuming that replies to your narcissism are not to be expected. Certainly, I am always interested in hearing what other people's experiences have been. Can't prove it so far... laughs but I find most people to be rather likeable. I haven't commented upon divorce or child custody -- I've seen some great, healthy divorces where both parents are fully involved in their kids lives and continue to treat their ex's with respect, and some where one parent or the other (or both!) ought to be flogged for what they do to their kids and their ex's. I've seen court cases that leave me, at best, puzzled -- I can't imagine WHAT the judge was thinking, and I have not expressed any opinion one way or the other about the individuals who have posted here, nor do I intend to. How on earth can you call this hostile or hateful to men? You can have equality of opportunity or equality of *result*. The demand by women and women's groups for the latter IS anti men hatred. But, let some Festering Femmeroids say it in their own words... And you assume I agree with everything you've cited (again, I might add -- you already put all this stuff on this thread once)? Why? Based on what evidence? " House odds ". Plus, your *false claims* that men and women destroy marriages at comparable rates, when... thats proven not true. IOW, you were either *ignorant* or a *liar*. Which was it ? Actually, *I* never said that. I've never said anything about the percentages of marriages destroyed by men vs. women. No, you *weren't that honest*. You merely attempted to equate 70-91% with 9-30%. People who passed grade two wouldn't be that... arithmetically ignorant. Neither "ignorant" nor "lie", just silent on this topic and listening to others, since it is not something that I have looked into much. I think divorce is too common -- whoever initiates it, for whatever reason. There you go again, equating the unequatable... Perhaps you can't tell women apart? Less likely then your inability to distinguish between 70-91% and 9-30%... Some of the women you quote are, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many other women of my acquaintance, idiots. So what? The point is that many women believe what those women said. And, if thats women saying insane thinigs, then it's your job, as another woman, to publically speak out against them, rather than try to hand wave them away. As... you just did. Busted... No, I frequently speak out against some of those things. I don't try to hand wave them away. I object -- loudly. As I said, can't prove it by what you posted... Do you treat ALL women like this, assuming you know what we think based on nothing more than your own prejudice? Why, do you claim to BE " all women " ? No, just wondering if there are any women who you are capable of hearing when they talk. Plenty. The common point with them: None are misandristic *sexists*. Look up Jayne K, over here. We get along just fine, even though we hold different theological views. Your anger and bitterness seem to have clogged your ears. yawn Projection. Maybe a theatre can hire you... I am not the person you think I am -- but you don't seem capable of seeing who and what I really am. Just reading your *posted words*, toots. If you wrrote poorly, thats also not my problem... You tell me what I believe, I tell you you are wrong, that I don't believe those things at all -- and you call me insulting names and laugh at me. Definition: " Insult: to accurately describe a Feminist's stated views... " And... " MIsogynist: A man who is *winning* an argument with a Feminist. " So I ask again -- have you any interest at all in who or what I really am? Or is your mind so made up that you are unwilling to be confused by facts? Show any sign that you are happy to not penalise men for *women's frauds*, and we might have somehting to talk about... But, as long as you play the direct Festering Femmeroid card of " Always blame the nearest *man* ", well, then that will accurately label you as a misandrist. By your own words. Deal with it. " You're a liberated woman. Learn to *lose*. " Danny Devito, " Otther People's Money. " Andre -- " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green. |
#17
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10 ways to be a better father
Bob wrote in :
[snip] What system would you like to see in place of child support? Maybe there could be an account held by a third party. No Toots, its not about the money. Get that "an account" out of your head. Forcing men to pay women is WRONG. Forcing men to pay women is NOT supporting a child. You support a child by putting out a plate at dinner, providing shelter and clothing, etc. NOT by paying women. [snip] I've sussed it! What Bob thinks ought to happen is that the non-custodial parent supports the child by turning up at the house where they lived, with the food for their supper. That way they a) support the child and b) don't pay the other parent anything. PS Note lack of crosspost. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#18
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10 ways to be a better father
In article , Nan says...
On 20 Nov 2003 09:58:46 -0800, Banty wrote: In article , Nan says... On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:31:52 -0700, Bob wrote: Nan wrote: Every child as a right to *a* father. The bio father isn't necessarily the best one for the job, just because he's the bio-dad. How hard is it for you to understand that having a consistent, loving parent in the child's life is the important issue?? No babe. Continued insults do nothing to endear anyone to your cause. Men are not interchangeable toys like your hair curlers. Again, continued insults do nothing to endear anyone to your cause. He doesn't think he has to endear anyone to his cause. He has stated that his cause can be brought about by violence. Banty *crossposting snipped due to Bob-inspired headache* Typical response from a man that is so filled with hatred. Nan I'd lay odds that he's one of the (few!) men who lost both physical and legal custody due to violent behavior. Which would be why he's speaking in terms of absolute fathers' rights - that is, no matter what. Just a guess... Banty |
#19
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10 ways to be a better father
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:49:22 +0000, Penny Gaines
wrote: Bob wrote in : [snip] What system would you like to see in place of child support? Maybe there could be an account held by a third party. No Toots, its not about the money. Get that "an account" out of your head. Forcing men to pay women is WRONG. Forcing men to pay women is NOT supporting a child. You support a child by putting out a plate at dinner, providing shelter and clothing, etc. NOT by paying women. [snip] I've sussed it! What Bob thinks ought to happen is that the non-custodial parent supports the child by turning up at the house where they lived, with the food for their supper. That way they a) support the child and b) don't pay the other parent anything. PS Note lack of crosspost. Note, Bob's *only* solution is that the parent who has physical custody and that should be the man only, is the one who supports the child by buying clothing, sheltering the child and giving the child food. He would then, I expect, not allow the mother any contact with her child either because that is what his ex did to him and he needs to revenge himself on her by taking his revenge on all women who divorce other men. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#20
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10 ways to be a better father
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:19:01 GMT, dragonlady
wrote: --My genuine hope that you do NOT represent most of the men working on behalf of men's rights in child custody and support cases; it is a worthy cause, and I fear that if folks like you are the primary torch carriers, it will lose. Oh, Bob's not half bad. You should meet John Knight. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
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