One undesirable side effect.

Or for some of you compulsives, possibly the most wanted effect.

http://nospank.net/sdsc3.pdf


We are going to be adding our country to this list. Count on it.

Countries where children are protected by law
from all corporal punishment:

Sweden (1979)
Finland (1983)
Norway (1987)
Austria (1989)
Cyprus (1994)
Italy (1996)
Denmark (1997)
Latvia (1998)
Croatia (1999)
Bulgaria (2000)
Germany (2000)
Israel (2000)
Iceland (2003)
Ukraine (2004)
Romania (2004)
Hungary (2005)
Portugal (2004)
Last updated July 2005

In addition, in Belgium in 2000 a new clause was added to the
Constitution confirming children's right to moral, physical,
psychological and sexual integrity; its legal effect is unclear and an
explicit ban on all corporal punishment is under consideration.

SOURCE: http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

Kane,

There was a time when I thought our country (US) would not be added to
this list in my lifetime. I no longer this this to be the case.
Pro-spankers are becoming more extreme as spanking is falling out of
favor. While the majority of parents nationwide still spank, the
percentage continues to decrease. And many parents who still spank no
longer speak about their disciplinary practices with pride.

Things are changing.

LaVonne

wrote:

Or for some of you compulsives, possibly the most wanted effect.

http://nospank.net/sdsc3.pdf


We are going to be adding our country to this list. Count on it.

Countries where children are protected by law
from all corporal punishment:

Sweden (1979)
Finland (1983)
Norway (1987)
Austria (1989)
Cyprus (1994)
Italy (1996)
Denmark (1997)
Latvia (1998)
Croatia (1999)
Bulgaria (2000)
Germany (2000)
Israel (2000)
Iceland (2003)
Ukraine (2004)
Romania (2004)
Hungary (2005)
Portugal (2004)
Last updated July 2005

In addition, in Belgium in 2000 a new clause was added to the
Constitution confirming children's right to moral, physical,
psychological and sexual integrity; its legal effect is unclear and an
explicit ban on all corporal punishment is under consideration.

SOURCE: http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Kane,

There was a time when I thought our country (US) would not be added to
this list in my lifetime. I no longer this this to be the case.
Pro-spankers are becoming more extreme as spanking is falling out of
favor. While the majority of parents nationwide still spank, the
percentage continues to decrease. And many parents who still spank no
longer speak about their disciplinary practices with pride.

Things are changing.

It's possible, but I'm not as confident as you. Or hopeful.

There is a backlash among spankers going on right now in states or
school districts that have banned paddling. Parents there are agitating
for it back, despite either NO change in children's anti social
behaviors, or a lessening of unwanted behavior accompanied with better
academic scores.

Who was it that said the madness is doing the same thing over and over
again when it continues to fail. Spanking has never really worked.
Nowhere.

As for us joining the list?

We, as a people, and more especially our leaders are, as demonstrated
in the wake of Katrina, are infected with the sickness of hubris. We
just think we know better, even when the world around us proves
conclusively and on a large scale that spanking is wrong, ineffective,
and closely correlated to criminal behaviors of the adults who were
victims of it as a child.

LaVonne

Sanity and reality for children's safety and rights may prevail, but as
I said, I'm not as hopeful as you given the resistence at this point.

Kane




wrote:

Or for some of you compulsives, possibly the most wanted effect.

http://nospank.net/sdsc3.pdf


We are going to be adding our country to this list. Count on it.

Countries where children are protected by law
from all corporal punishment:

Sweden (1979)
Finland (1983)
Norway (1987)
Austria (1989)
Cyprus (1994)
Italy (1996)
Denmark (1997)
Latvia (1998)
Croatia (1999)
Bulgaria (2000)
Germany (2000)
Israel (2000)
Iceland (2003)
Ukraine (2004)
Romania (2004)
Hungary (2005)
Portugal (2004)
Last updated July 2005

In addition, in Belgium in 2000 a new clause was added to the
Constitution confirming children's right to moral, physical,
psychological and sexual integrity; its legal effect is unclear and an
explicit ban on all corporal punishment is under consideration.

SOURCE: http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

wrote:
Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Kane,

There was a time when I thought our country (US) would not be added to
this list in my lifetime. I no longer this this to be the case.
Pro-spankers are becoming more extreme as spanking is falling out of
favor. While the majority of parents nationwide still spank, the
percentage continues to decrease. And many parents who still spank no
longer speak about their disciplinary practices with pride.

Things are changing.


It's possible, but I'm not as confident as you. Or hopeful.

Perhaps I need to believe this, after so many years that felt futile.

There is a backlash among spankers going on right now in states or
school districts that have banned paddling. Parents there are agitating
for it back, despite either NO change in children's anti social
behaviors, or a lessening of unwanted behavior accompanied with better
academic scores.

I know this as well. Don't dash my hopes, Kane (grin)! I continue to
more and more countries banning the practice, I see fewer people brag
about the practice, and I see slightly declining numbers, I need to hope
that our country will become more enlightened about the rights of children.

Who was it that said the madness is doing the same thing over and over
again when it continues to fail. Spanking has never really worked.
Nowhere.

I don't know who said it, but I've heard the statement. Spanking has
never worked long-term for anyone, and only sort term for individuals
who are shortsighted enough to believe that a child who changes his/her
behavior in the presence of the spanker, or immediately after a
spanking, indicates short and long term success.

As for us joining the list?

We, as a people, and more especially our leaders are, as demonstrated
in the wake of Katrina, are infected with the sickness of hubris. We
just think we know better, even when the world around us proves
conclusively and on a large scale that spanking is wrong, ineffective,
and closely correlated to criminal behaviors of the adults who were
victims of it as a child.

I agree.



Sanity and reality for children's safety and rights may prevail, but as
I said, I'm not as hopeful as you given the resistence at this point.

Have you ever been in a place where you need to believe something
positive? I think this is where I am right now. Katrina once again
demonstrated the lack of priority this administration places on certain
members of society. It also demonstrated the ineptitude of this
administration, along with the tremendous ego and classism involved. For
my survival, I have to believe that somewhere, on some front, things
will change. Perhaps the majority of the American people will wake up
to what is happening in this country.

LaVonne

Kane




wrote:


Or for some of you compulsives, possibly the most wanted effect.

http://nospank.net/sdsc3.pdf


We are going to be adding our country to this list. Count on it.

Countries where children are protected by law
from all corporal punishment:

Sweden (1979)
Finland (1983)
Norway (1987)
Austria (1989)
Cyprus (1994)
Italy (1996)
Denmark (1997)
Latvia (1998)
Croatia (1999)
Bulgaria (2000)
Germany (2000)
Israel (2000)
Iceland (2003)
Ukraine (2004)
Romania (2004)
Hungary (2005)
Portugal (2004)
Last updated July 2005

In addition, in Belgium in 2000 a new clause was added to the
Constitution confirming children's right to moral, physical,
psychological and sexual integrity; its legal effect is unclear and an
explicit ban on all corporal punishment is under consideration.

SOURCE: http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
wrote:
Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Kane,

There was a time when I thought our country (US) would not be added to
this list in my lifetime. I no longer this this to be the case.
Pro-spankers are becoming more extreme as spanking is falling out of
favor. While the majority of parents nationwide still spank, the
percentage continues to decrease. And many parents who still spank no
longer speak about their disciplinary practices with pride.

Things are changing.


It's possible, but I'm not as confident as you. Or hopeful.

Perhaps I need to believe this, after so many years that felt futile.

I find it hard, at this early remove, to abandon my hope for a moral
resoluation based on the ethical treatment of children, trusting
parent's professed love to bridge the gap between what they know, and
what they wish to learn.


There is a backlash among spankers going on right now in states or
school districts that have banned paddling. Parents there are agitating
for it back, despite either NO change in children's anti social
behaviors, or a lessening of unwanted behavior accompanied with better
academic scores.

I know this as well. Don't dash my hopes, Kane (grin)! I continue to
more and more countries banning the practice, I see fewer people brag
about the practice, and I see slightly declining numbers, I need to hope
that our country will become more enlightened about the rights of children.

Well, the schools got the picture, based both on facts, and questioning
the morality of paddling. And what the schools got the parents can get.
Hopefully in sufficient numbers to hold off the law...but I have little
hope of that, given the current climate in the US. I believe there is
still a huge population of battered children (in denial of course) that
will defend spanking until their own parents, the batterers, deaths,
and beyond.

Not for factual reasons, but for emotional comfort.

Who was it that said the madness is doing the same thing over and over
again when it continues to fail. Spanking has never really worked.
Nowhere.

I don't know who said it, but I've heard the statement. Spanking has
never worked long-term for anyone, and only sort term for individuals
who are shortsighted enough to believe that a child who changes his/her
behavior in the presence of the spanker, or immediately after a
spanking, indicates short and long term success.

I've seen dangerous behavior in children that were trained thus to
sneak. Usually very obvious by the teen years. Not trusting their
parents, but being afraid to be open and confrontive in a healthy
assertive manner, they sneak and do very very dangerous things, taking
risks with their and other's lives, sometimes running out the odds to
injury or death.

As for us joining the list?

We, as a people, and more especially our leaders are, as demonstrated
in the wake of Katrina, are infected with the sickness of hubris. We
just think we know better, even when the world around us proves
conclusively and on a large scale that spanking is wrong, ineffective,
and closely correlated to criminal behaviors of the adults who were
victims of it as a child.

I agree.



Sanity and reality for children's safety and rights may prevail, but as
I said, I'm not as hopeful as you given the resistence at this point.

Have you ever been in a place where you need to believe something
positive? I think this is where I am right now. Katrina once again
demonstrated the lack of priority this administration places on certain
members of society. It also demonstrated the ineptitude of this
administration, along with the tremendous ego and classism involved. For
my survival, I have to believe that somewhere, on some front, things
will change. Perhaps the majority of the American people will wake up
to what is happening in this country.

George was after all, along with his siblings, spanked. Mother is proud
of it and has been quoted as saying so.

LaVonne

In fact I venture that most people that are strongly drawn to positions
of greater power come from powerlessness. In health communities you
have to MAKE people take their turn at social decision making
positions. As it should be.

No one should want it as a career.

Time...which I see running out for me, even if I stay very healthy and
active, as I am. No time to see the end of this age old savagry, but my
children might see it. That's worth it.

Let's keep posting this list, and sending it to our decision makers.

With YOUR sentiments stated in a way they are more likely to take to
heart.

"How long will the United States not be represented on this list by the
voice of your constituency speaking."

Nothing quite wakes them up more quickly than the word, "constituents."
0:-






Kane




wrote:


Or for some of you compulsives, possibly the most wanted effect.

http://nospank.net/sdsc3.pdf


We are going to be adding our country to this list. Count on it.

Countries where children are protected by law
from all corporal punishment:

Sweden (1979)
Finland (1983)
Norway (1987)
Austria (1989)
Cyprus (1994)
Italy (1996)
Denmark (1997)
Latvia (1998)
Croatia (1999)
Bulgaria (2000)
Germany (2000)
Israel (2000)
Iceland (2003)
Ukraine (2004)
Romania (2004)
Hungary (2005)
Portugal (2004)
Last updated July 2005

In addition, in Belgium in 2000 a new clause was added to the
Constitution confirming children's right to moral, physical,
psychological and sexual integrity; its legal effect is unclear and an
explicit ban on all corporal punishment is under consideration.

SOURCE: http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html