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#131
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
"Banty" wroteL Then send it out again with the registration packet. That's done in July or August here. This *can* be worked out. As lots of places have already done. Why not yours? Banty (tired of the excusifying) I've not made a single excuse for anything. The problem is that you seem to think that you have a say in my district, and that you know my parents, from a distance, better than I do. Wrong on both counts. But you do have a say in your district. What is your excuse for not contacting them? I've asked this, in one form or another, probably eight times by now. I only get sarcastic moans about how such a thing should already be done for you. Well, it isn't. So why have you STILL not done anything about it? P. Tierney |
#132
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
In article RNiqb.114667$HS4.995685@attbi_s01, P. Tierney says...
"Banty" wroteL Then send it out again with the registration packet. That's done in July or August here. This *can* be worked out. As lots of places have already done. Why not yours? Banty (tired of the excusifying) I've not made a single excuse for anything. The problem is that you seem to think that you have a say in my district, and that you know my parents, from a distance, better than I do. Wrong on both counts. But you do have a say in your district. What is your excuse for not contacting them? I've asked this, in one form or another, probably eight times by now. I only get sarcastic moans about how such a thing should already be done for you. Well, it isn't. So why have you STILL not done anything about it? P. Tierney This thing about how I'm supposedly saying that, because my district could make the information earlier somehow means I'm dictating to your district, or that discussing this on USENET somehow means we mean you to do something for them, is so weird that I haven't addressed it until now. I think schedules should be made available to parents as early as possible. When they're set - not a few weeks before they must be hewed to. That means naught about what peculiarities in your district may affect your situation. Got it? We've managed to discuss this about school districts across at least two continents and between parents who are and aren't on school staffs without having this odd concept come up anywhere but in your posts. That we discuss things on USENET does not mean we mean one P. Tierney should up and fix it. Or that we're to shut up until we've launched a national effort. Another piece of weirdness that you can drop now. Got it? I did describe what end my efforts came to regarding a similar situation. I got beaurocratic hoo-ha about it. That I am not turning into the Joan of Arc of School Schedule Notification does not mean we shouldn't discuss it here on misc.kids. So calm down. Banty |
#133
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
"Banty" wrote:
This thing about how I'm supposedly saying that, because my district could make the information earlier somehow means I'm dictating to your district, or that discussing this on USENET somehow means we mean you to do something for them, is so weird that I haven't addressed it until now. Since one of the solutions -- calling your district -- is something that you've refused to do despite labeling the piece of paper "vital information" is what is weird. Many did not consider waiting until August a problem. You did. So why *not* do something about it? It's consistent with what I've said all along -- that it's a local issue, as different districts have different needs. I think schedules should be made available to parents as early as possible. And I've stated all along that local districts, with parent input, can handle this. As also stated, also without response (so I guess it must also be "weird") that this is one piece of communication that goes out to parents, and that it can be looked at wholly instead of randomly. When they're set - not a few weeks before they must be hewed to. That means naught about what peculiarities in your district may affect your situation. Got it? We've managed to discuss this about school districts across at least two continents and between parents who are and aren't on school staffs without having this odd concept come up anywhere but in your posts. My posts? You've continually mixed the two issues. That's why the discussion has been completely illogical, since it's back and forth again and again. That we discuss things on USENET does not mean we mean one P. Tierney should up and fix it. You've specifically told me what *I* should be doing in past posts. You've chosen to make it personal, not only references to my actions, but my motivations and my ability to understand and communicate with the parents that I've dealt with for nine years. I did describe what end my efforts came to regarding a similar situation. I got beaurocratic hoo-ha about it. That I am not turning into the Joan of Arc of School Schedule Notification does not mean we shouldn't discuss it here on misc.kids. So calm down. If you want me to be calm, then *discuss* things, preferably with an open mind. Do not berate, talk down to, assume negative motivations, mock, and be sarcastic towards one with a differing point of view than you. You do it in this post. You've done it in nearly every other one too. P. Tierney |
#134
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
toto wrote in :
Ime, there are a lot more people who are so disorganized that if they got the info 18 months in advance, it would be lost by the time they needed it than there are people who actually need the information 18 months in advance. You are talking here about sending out a calendar for September, in March of the previous year and it is not something I've seen done anywhere I have worked or gone to school. In order to send it out in March, the approval would have to occur in January or February of that previous school year and there are simply too many other things on the agenda at that time of year, I suspect. This is one of those things that are different in different places. I've got a list of the main term dates up to July 2005: it was sent out before October 2003. It also warns us that the school will be closed on "two other days during the year for Staff Training, he dates of which have not yet been decided". So over here, the closures are considered sufficiently important that we know of their existance a year in advance. I can see getting the information out at the end (June) of the previous school year if the calendar is decided at that time. In some places, the final calendar is not decided until the July or August board meetings where it is approved. Are you really saying that in January 2003 no-one knew when your school would start back in August/September 2003? That seems such short notice to me! I could understand if it was for August/September 2004, so maybe I have got it wrong. I think there needs to be some compromise with those who really do need the information so early taking some iniative in terms of getting it. The information was on the back of another newsletter, and I expect we will get sent the 2004/5 dates again sometime towards the end of the academic year. So the people who need it have got it *now*, and the disorganised people will be reminded again. The information on the term dates takes 11 lines (including blank lines). *Everyone* will need it eventually, so it is one of those things that it is so obvious to send out as soon as it is available. If it took pages and pages (and maybe it does where you are) then I could see the point in waiting to send it out. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#135
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
"Penny Gaines" wrote: I can see getting the information out at the end (June) of the previous school year if the calendar is decided at that time. In some places, the final calendar is not decided until the July or August board meetings where it is approved. Are you really saying that in January 2003 no-one knew when your school would start back in August/September 2003? That seems such short notice to me! Well, that's how it is here. I'm sure that "unofficial" dates are created well in advance, and those dates might end up not changing 99.9% of the time. But it isn't made official, here, until several months later. I can't presume that there aren't reasons for this. P. Tierney |
#136
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
P. Tierney wrote in T1mqb.118904$HS4.1012644@attbi_s01:
"Banty" wrote: This thing about how I'm supposedly saying that, because my district could make the information earlier somehow means I'm dictating to your district, or that discussing this on USENET somehow means we mean you to do something for them, is so weird that I haven't addressed it until now. Well, the value of discussing things like thie on usenet is that you can sometimes get to hear another side of the argument, and come across a viewpoint you haven't heard of before. I don't go around the school playground discussing how much notice we get about school holidays, and hence it would never have occured to me that some people consider a couple of months notice to be adequete. Since one of the solutions -- calling your district -- is something that you've refused to do despite labeling the piece of paper "vital information" is what is weird. Many did not consider waiting until August a problem. You did. So why *not* do something about it? It's consistent with what I've said all along -- that it's a local issue, as different districts have different needs. This might be due to our different backgrounds. I have always worked in the kind of place where long-range schedules are important and hence are made available early on. *If* the long-range schedule is not made available, that is because it *does not existant* yet. As I am used to that sort of working enviroment, it would not occur to me that a long-range schedule was available to people who asked, but not given out in general. I think it is relevant that people who don't have a problem with the schedule being giving out at short notice are working in (an) educational system. You don't have the experience where you and you alone set your schedule, but are unable to change it at short notice (where short notice may be three months in advance.) The other problem (and this is common across many industries) is that people within the system may not realise the limited knowledge that people outside the system have. As an example, someone said it did not matter to them which day in the second week of August they went back: the teachers might know that the schools go back then, but the parents might not realise. For example, if the schools go back on Wednesday 13th August this year, on Wednesday 11th 2004, and Wednesday 10th in 2005. If you work on the assumption that they go back on the second Wednesday in August, you would immediately be able to tell they go back on Wednesday 9th in 2006. However, I can also envisage a system where you go back on the Wednesday of the second full week in August, and hence the actual starting date would be Wednesday 16th. Now, over the years there have been many changes between the way the education system was set up when I was at school, and now my kids are at school. If you work in the education system, those incremental changes are probably very slight from year to year: if you are not in the education system, the changes from you being at school to your kids being at school are pretty big. So even though you have been through the system twenty plus years ago, does not mean you are familiar with the system as it stands now, especially if you came from a different area. I think schedules should be made available to parents as early as possible. And I've stated all along that local districts, with parent input, can handle this. As also stated, also without response (so I guess it must also be "weird") that this is one piece of communication that goes out to parents, and that it can be looked at wholly instead of randomly. Well, as I don't know your district, maybe you are right. Maybe you do know all the parents of all the children at school, and what all their concerns and preferences are. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#137
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
"Penny Gaines" wrote:
Well, the value of discussing things like thie on usenet is that you can sometimes get to hear another side of the argument, and come across a viewpoint you haven't heard of before. I don't go around the school playground discussing how much notice we get about school holidays, and hence it would never have occured to me that some people consider a couple of months notice to be adequete. I agree. Since one of the solutions -- calling your district -- is something that you've refused to do despite labeling the piece of paper "vital information" is what is weird. Many did not consider waiting until August a problem. You did. So why *not* do something about it? It's consistent with what I've said all along -- that it's a local issue, as different districts have different needs. This might be due to our different backgrounds. I have always worked in the kind of place where long-range schedules are important and hence are made available early on. It has has something to do with the different systems that we live in, made more different by being in different countries, and the expectations that arise from those differences. If many here required long-range schedules, then the schools would have to likely find some way to accomodate those parents by doing it farther in advance. Or it could be reversed, as the workforce could have to relax their expectations if the schools are not able, for whatever reason, to do things that far in advance. One of the two. But schools are a part of society, not a part from, or adversaries of. The two can find ways to meet fairly easily. I think it is relevant that people who don't have a problem with the schedule being giving out at short notice are working in (an) educational system. This isn't the case. I've worked with many who are not teachers who do not have a problem with things as they are here. Furthermore, only a few people on this largely non-teacher forum have expressed any problem with getting things when they do. And I've stated all along that local districts, with parent input, can handle this. As also stated, also without response (so I guess it must also be "weird") that this is one piece of communication that goes out to parents, and that it can be looked at wholly instead of randomly. Well, as I don't know your district, maybe you are right. Maybe you do know all the parents of all the children at school, and what all their concerns and preferences are. I've never claimed to know all of them. But you don't know any of them, just as I don't know any where you live. Note that I've not disputed a single point about your claims about the needs of your community, as you see it. I've not used sarcasm or exaggeration to make light of your claims, or your experience. I'd appreciate the same respect. P. Tierney |
#138
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, P. Tierney wrote: "Penny Gaines" wrote: Well, the value of discussing things like thie on usenet is that you can sometimes get to hear another side of the argument, and come across a viewpoint you haven't heard of before. I don't go around the school playground discussing how much notice we get about school holidays, and hence it would never have occured to me that some people consider a couple of months notice to be adequete. I agree. Since one of the solutions -- calling your district -- is something that you've refused to do despite labeling the piece of paper "vital information" is what is weird. Many did not consider waiting until August a problem. You did. So why *not* do something about it? It's consistent with what I've said all along -- that it's a local issue, as different districts have different needs. This might be due to our different backgrounds. I have always worked in the kind of place where long-range schedules are important and hence are made available early on. It has has something to do with the different systems that we live in, made more different by being in different countries, and the expectations that arise from those differences. If many here required long-range schedules, then the schools would have to likely find some way to accomodate those parents by doing it farther in advance. Or it could be reversed, as the workforce could have to relax their expectations if the schools are not able, for whatever reason, to do things that far in advance. One of the two. But schools are a part of society, not a part from, or adversaries of. The two can find ways to meet fairly easily. I think it is relevant that people who don't have a problem with the schedule being giving out at short notice are working in (an) educational system. This isn't the case. I've worked with many who are not teachers who do not have a problem with things as they are here. Furthermore, only a few people on this largely non-teacher forum have expressed any problem with getting things when they do. Who else is teaching? You (before baby)? Me? And? Who are all these people in education advocating short notices? And what is short notice? Some have suggested calendars should be out a year or two ahead of time. I think spring is more reasonable for the districts where I've been employed. But I don't consider spring to be "short notice." I only said I didn't pay any attention recently - this year being an example in that I didn't even know when the first day of school was. Had nothing to do with availability. I access our calendars online. It has to do with the fact that I don't have any money to buy into timeshares, etc., and can't afford a vacation or get away these days so I'm home, two miles from school, and life goes on. I started working onsite two weeks before the official first day so I wasn't too worried about it. FOR ME. I think it is important that people be informed in a timely manner. But I also know some things about our calendar cannot be planned years in advance. Our calendar is subject to a variety of influences. |
#139
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
Joni Rathbun wrote in
: Some have suggested calendars should be out a year or two ahead of time. I think spring is more reasonable for the districts where I've been employed. But I don't consider spring to be "short notice." Well, our calender is availbale nearly two years ahead of time, although when I think about it, I haven't known needed to know more then a year ahead. I did once try to booking in January to stay in a specific hotel in August: the main August weeks were all booked up, but because our school broke up early compared to many (only by a few days, less then a week), I could get in at the end of July. Had it been the other way round - that we went back late - I would have wanted the information then. I only said I didn't pay any attention recently - this year being an example in that I didn't even know when the first day of school was. Had nothing to do with availability. I access our calendars online. It has to do with the fact that I don't have any money to buy into timeshares, etc., and can't afford a vacation or get away these days so I'm home, two miles from school, and life goes on. I started working onsite two weeks before the official first day so I wasn't too worried about it. FOR ME. I suspect it mainly affects the Very Important People and the Very Unimportant People: the ones who have lots of choice, but lots of people affected by their timings, and the people with almost no choice about their timings. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#140
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Those dreaded Early Release Days--VENT
In article , Banty wrote:
Note, re-wrapping is my own. No, it isn't being discussed as an alternative. What's being contended is that any parents who need to know the upcoming schedule should call the school and/or check the website. So basically: 1. Parents should all know that there these 'alternate' days, 'supervisor' days, 'teacher-parent conference' half-days, 'conference' days. Yes, parents (and everyone else in my opinion) should be aware that schools aren't open every week from monday to friday. There's winter break, spring break, sometimes fall break and this lovely thing called summer vacation. 2. Parents should know when the schools know. I don't think that knowing when the school knows is neccessary. I think that you know when you'd like to know by, and you ask if it will be available by then. I'd wager pretty a lot that the school doesn't take the attitude that their *employees* needn't be notified, that their employees can just call sometime if they want to know their own schedule. I've worked for two colleges and a vo-tech. I never got a schedule in the mail. I never got a schedule in an e-mail. I went to the website and looked or I called and asked. Now I work for yet another university. I usually forget to check the website. If a closed day affects payroll, it's on my payroll notice (comes out biannually) - otherwise the secretaries (who check the website) usually remind us the day/week before. As an adult, I'm generally considered perfectly capable of such tasks. As a new parent (oldest kid going into 1st), I had no idea there were all these extra odd-assundry days. A couple of years later, I was pretty surprised to find out that it's set as early as April the year before, although parents aren't notified until the following September (and some here do not see the reason to send home flyers even then!) This is *really* school district dependant. I've lived in districts where the schedule has to be approved by a vote of everyone who lives in the district. Usually it's discussed at school board meetings and has to pass a vote there. That's always been mentioned in the newspaper. Surely you were aware of the possibility that school might be closed on federal or other holidays. I don't see that other days of closure are significantly different than figuring out what subset of federal holidays is observed. In my experience, which is probably 10 years old by now, the schedule was usually included in the packet of start-of-school things like rules and dress code. Most parents (mine included) didn't read them, or keep them. I think I stopped showing them to my parents at some point. It's a stupid beaurocratic attitude - 'everyone should know *our* procedure and schedules because, after all, don't *we* know them'. Either than, or they think the only difference to the parent is whether or not the kiddies are home when they polish the silver and bake the cookies :-\ So what is it. I suspect it's much like when you move to a new town. There are trash pickup schedules, recycling schedules, hours for city hall, etc. The information you want is available, but you mgiht have to ask. If enough people request one, there might be a new resident information packet available. Have you tried asking the PTA if they could do that? Elaine |
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