Texas Schools Felony Fraud numbers of dropouts

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Why repeal ASFA without repealing CAPTA first?

Here's a link for various and sundry DHHS news items
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/acf_news.html

Your right.. I just mde a rush to judgement.

bobb

Oh. I honestly thought maybe you had some reason
to get rid of one without the other.

I still like the expert idea to scrap it and start
over much smaller, forget the need for hugeness,
stay out of the piddly cases and concentrate
on the more serious stuff. Start over on a lean scale.

My understanding is that ASFA was a partial repair
of failings in CAPTA.

I still haven't had time to study the NEW law signed
by the President June 25, 2003. "Children and Families"
As much as I don't like big government, I can't
say for sure that Federalizing the whole thing
would be a bad idea. Could it really be much worse?

Kane sounds like he's pulling for state budgets,
for the state CPS against the idea of Federalization.
Why would most citizens care if it was Federalized?

Actually, wouldn't it be neat if the Feds could
invade all of the state CPS agencies and run them
for a year to force them into compliance with
everything protecting rights? And then hand them
back to the states after they operate right...

regime change for these agencies?

Could they do something like that as a condition for
any more Federal Money?

bobb Wrote
"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Why repeal ASFA without repealing CAPTA first?

Here's a link for various and sundry DHHS news items
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/acf_news.html

Your right.. I just mde a rush to judgement.

bobb

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
Oh. I honestly thought maybe you had some reason
to get rid of one without the other.

Don't know who you are addressing but I DO have a reason to get rid of
one and not the other: there is a need for child protection.

In addition I am opposed to the intrusion into families and into the
states on the level CAPTA and ASFA has openned the door to.

It works like this: States may be good or bad in different areas of
the body politic but they should answer primarily to their own
citizens, locally, and not be beholden to the feds on certain issues.

Were states and the feds DO need each other would be in area such as
commerce and transportation, but in matters of personal issues NOT a
matter of civil rights (and you all blow hard over this one when it
comes to families) the feds need to butt out.

Citizens of a state have far more influence and power locally than
they do in DC. Get the picture?

I still like the expert idea to scrap it and start
over much smaller, forget the need for hugeness,
stay out of the piddly cases and concentrate
on the more serious stuff. Start over on a lean scale.

But you expect to get that by going to the feds?

You are politically naive.

My understanding is that ASFA was a partial repair
of failings in CAPTA.

No, actually it was much more about the rising incidents of more and
more severe abuse and neglect pegged to the extreme rise in drug and
alcohol use. Contrary to the lies being told in this ng there is an
extremely serious flood of drug and alcohol effected children as well
as more severly abused children dating from the mid 60s to the
present.

I still haven't had time to study the NEW law signed
by the President June 25, 2003. "Children and Families"
As much as I don't like big government, I can't
say for sure that Federalizing the whole thing
would be a bad idea. Could it really be much worse?

Watch your cronies here celebrate, and watch me knash my teeth at
their stupidity. I've read it and I know what it means...and it MORE
of the same. MORE intrusion by the feds, MORE definition of what
family is or isn't and in a very short time MORE constraints on how
families raise their children.

That's always been the goal, whether from the political right or left
they are all invested in control of the citizen from cradle to grave,
and the first 10 year or so are critical.

Kane sounds like he's pulling for state budgets,
for the state CPS against the idea of Federalization.
Why would most citizens care if it was Federalized?

Because we have almost ZERO chance of fighting abuses by the feds.
Shall I offer you a list or will one item alone wake you up.

Noam Chomsky, not my favorite political commentator, but nontheless
correct in his veiw, explains well in the War on Drugs issue.

And I'll add: whenever the fed gets it **** covered nose into any
major issue there are those that will build industries on it.

If you think the War on Drugs was and is a costly fiasco wait until
you better understand the War on Families as conducted by the feds.

http://www.deoxy.org/usdrugs.htm

Actually, wouldn't it be neat if the Feds could
invade all of the state CPS agencies and run them
for a year to force them into compliance with
everything protecting rights? And then hand them
back to the states after they operate right...

RRRRRR, it was effectively accomplished already with ASFA. You really
are dumb.

And it's NOT to the benefit of families that the feds did that...what
makes you think it would change if they laid on a deeper layer of
bureaucracy yet?

No, it would get worse. When the taking of our tax dollars by the
feds, and the feeding OUR own money back to us with spending
performance criteria ends we will end the abuses, and not until.

regime change for these agencies?

Bull****. Just break the financial ties and the bureacracies will
change without a single person being replaced. All agencies of all
kinds, not just human service ones, jump to the funding tune. Always
have. Alway will, and it's nothing I would change....I HATE bloody ego
driven reformers. They are the most dangerous people on the planet.

Could they do something like that as a condition for
any more Federal Money?

Now you are talking......out your ass as usual. It's already done.
Been in the works since ASFA.

bobb Wrote
"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Why repeal ASFA without repealing CAPTA first?

Here's a link for various and sundry DHHS news items
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/acf_news.html

Your right.. I just mde a rush to judgement.

bobb

Who knows. Maybe people will start to think about this one day with
some intelligence and leave off their emotional rantings.

Kane

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Oh. I honestly thought maybe you had some reason
to get rid of one without the other.

I still like the expert idea to scrap it and start
over much smaller, forget the need for hugeness,
stay out of the piddly cases and concentrate
on the more serious stuff. Start over on a lean scale.

My understanding is that ASFA was a partial repair
of failings in CAPTA.

I still haven't had time to study the NEW law signed
by the President June 25, 2003. "Children and Families"
As much as I don't like big government, I can't
say for sure that Federalizing the whole thing
would be a bad idea. Could it really be much worse?

Yes.. it can get much worse.. CAPTA should be gone as well as ASFA. We
really need to get the federal government out of family life and state law.


Kane sounds like he's pulling for state budgets,
for the state CPS against the idea of Federalization.
Why would most citizens care if it was Federalized?

Actually, wouldn't it be neat if the Feds could
invade all of the state CPS agencies and run them
for a year to force them into compliance with
everything protecting rights? And then hand them
back to the states after they operate right...

regime change for these agencies?

You forget that is exactly what is happening now. The feds have invaded all
of the state CPS agencies and created much of the mess we are in. Each
state should be able to create and fund programs to meet their own needs.
The one shoe-fits-all mentality doesn't work.

Additionally, it's far easier to fight, or correct, the system at the local
(state) level than trying to take on the federal government. By the way,
have you ever seen the federal goverment, or any governement, give up
control of anything?

bobb


Could they do something like that as a condition for
any more Federal Money?

bobb Wrote
"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Why repeal ASFA without repealing CAPTA first?

Here's a link for various and sundry DHHS news items
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/acf_news.html

Your right.. I just mde a rush to judgement.

bobb

Greg wrote
Could they do something like that as a condition for
any more Federal Money?

Kane wrote
It's already done. Been in the works since ASFA.

Yes, as you say "in the works" but never REALLY done.

For example, TEN YEARS AGO Every state was told to
have at least one, and in most cases 3 or more,
Citizens Review Boards over CPS case problems.

Not just over Foster Care, over CPS malfunction.

Iowa DID have a CRB two years ago which was all
loaded with Child Protection workers and
contractors, which by the way was against regulations.

Now there is NO CRB except over Foster Care.
( CRB combined with FC Review Board, now ICFCRB )

So, with something as cut and dried as the CRB
requirement not properly implemented, the money
has never been cut off.

You forget that is exactly what is happening now.
The feds have invaded all of the state CPS
agencies and created much of the mess we are in.
Each state should be able to create and fund
programs to meet their own needs.
The one shoe-fits-all mentality doesn't work.

I agree that the Feds would probably only make it worse.
And I hate the way the Feds imposed this crappy
system onto the states by BUYING states rights
with the grant money. I vaguely recall hearing
something about one state actually deciding
to completely FOREGO all Federal Grant money for this.

I basically don't think ANY government, Fed or State
should be getting involved unless there is some
VERY serious reason to override CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

For the Federal OR State government to invoke
Parens Patriae, they need to:

1. Prove at least a reasonable ability to parent.
So far they have failed MISERABLY, generally
doing WORSE than many of their supposedly
failing parents. It's like the Hog calling
the Horse dirty.

2. Stop calling every little nit-picky thing
"Imminent Danger" to trick around that requirement.
(Hint: State Care presents imminent danger also!)

3. True Judicial oversight. Stop allowing Juvenile
Courts to be complete Rubber Stamps for caseworkers.
This defeats the entire purpose of Juvenile Court.
Juvenile Court exists to keep caseworkers from
violating the rights of families and kids.
This one-sided rubber stamping and even polarized
bias has to stop. They ignore motions from parents
for reasonable, basic and required fairness and
protection of rights.

4. Citizens Review Board,

ACYF-CB-PIQ-83-04(10/26/83) regarding 45 CFR 205.10
Grievance process on Services problems and

Administrative Appeal on Registry
are all broken or dead ended here.

If ANY government fails to provide these required protections, they
are guilty of emotional and psychological abuse of children and
parents, and failure to protect citizens rights to due process.
Parens Patriae is NOT just about kids. Our governments make LOUSY
parents to citizens in general, and kids.

My family has been betrayed for almost 3 years by corrupt State
officials.
The remedy for this bad treatment of citizens probably won't come from
the State, and citizens have to beg the Federal Courts to protect them
from bad State Government officials.

This overriding by the Feds should not be necessary.
The States fail to protect their own citizens and
The Feds fail to protect citizens from bad state actors.

The HYSTERIA has to stop and RIGHTS need
to be put back on a pedestal.

I charge them both with "failure to protect" in this regard.

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Oh. I honestly thought maybe you had some reason
to get rid of one without the other.

I still like the expert idea to scrap it and start
over much smaller, forget the need for hugeness,
stay out of the piddly cases and concentrate
on the more serious stuff. Start over on a lean scale.

What's in place now as far as the system goes isn't bad.

The problem is the people at CPS who choose to go after families who should
be left
alone or referred to a different agency.

Dan

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
Greg wrote
Could they do something like that as a condition for
any more Federal Money?

Kane wrote
It's already done. Been in the works since ASFA.

Yes, as you say "in the works" but never REALLY done.

The "already done" referred to the money connection, but then you knew
that.

For example, TEN YEARS AGO Every state was told to
have at least one, and in most cases 3 or more,
Citizens Review Boards over CPS case problems.

I have a little surprize for you. It was NOT a mandate. It was a
suggestion. You see, the problem is that CRBs are NOT funded. They are
staffed by volunteers. I and I believe others have in these very ngs
asked people with a supurating outgrowth of CPS hatred to actually do
something about it and go and volunteer.

Nope, just a lot of bull**** that they wouldn't be a part of it.

So, not willing to be part of the very oversight you assholes scream
for?

Oh goody.

Not just over Foster Care, over CPS malfunction.

And if there are no volunteers? And if the volunteers are ignorant and
stupid as you and your Plant friend are?

Iowa DID have a CRB two years ago which was all
loaded with Child Protection workers and
contractors, which by the way was against regulations.

Yes. But they are REQUIRED TO ATTEND, dummy, if it's their agency and
them being examined by the CRB. How stupid are you anyway?

Who SHOULD be there, dummy?

Who would they ask questions of?

Now there is NO CRB except over Foster Care.
( CRB combined with FC Review Board, now ICFCRB )

Oh, you finally have something right. I'm shocked.

So, with something as cut and dried as the CRB
requirement not properly implemented, the money
has never been cut off.

You cannot force someone to recruit volunteers. You can tell them to
do it but you cannot force...or it wouldn't be volunteer.

You forget that is exactly what is happening now.
The feds have invaded all of the state CPS
agencies and created much of the mess we are in.
Each state should be able to create and fund
programs to meet their own needs.
The one shoe-fits-all mentality doesn't work.

I agree that the Feds would probably only make it worse.

Then why do you not come out and bray a little when your cronies here
stump so vigorously for just that?

And I hate the way the Feds imposed this crappy
system onto the states by BUYING states rights
with the grant money.

Ah. Now tell me. Where is the money going to come from...and I'll save
you the trouble and answer.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP THE FEDS FROM GETTING OUR TAX DOLLARS. So
they got us by the short hairs. Now when you and other assholes like
you learn to read, to understand, and to vote with political will and
knowledge such things will start to slow, and in time the assholes
that run for office with get the message.

Break the tax hold and you break the federal hold over the states and
its citizens.

Too complex for you?

I vaguely recall hearing
something about one state actually deciding
to completely FOREGO all Federal Grant money for this.

Probably have less of a problem to deal with, or don't give a ****. I
know of such states.

I basically don't think ANY government, Fed or State
should be getting involved unless there is some
VERY serious reason to override CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

It used to be the counties, universally, that rode herd on child
welfare. If you want to see corruption go back to the county system.
Many services were contracted out, as the states are going back to
(much to the delight of some of your cronies here). Now there was a
sick system.

California still works on a county system for the most part, and you
know the story there, don't you?

County commissioners don't have enough exposure to control very well.
They are ripe for cronieism. State legislators, on the other hand, are
of great interest to the media and the lobbiests who can afford to be
there.

It's the place to bring the most pressure the most effectively.


For the Federal OR State government to invoke
Parens Patriae, they need to:

1. Prove at least a reasonable ability to parent.

They have no such need or requirement, nor is it logical. They are not
in the business of parenting. They are in the business of either
helping families parent safely or barring that finding families that
will.

So far they have failed MISERABLY, generally
doing WORSE than many of their supposedly
failing parents. It's like the Hog calling
the Horse dirty.

No government agency is designed for parenting. It would be stupid to
try. One can't hire, train, and pay someone to parent effectively over
the long run. Foster parenting is temporary by design. It stops
becoming strictly speaking, "foster" parenting when it becomes long
term. Ask any foster parent. Most know the difference and that
fostering a child long term is "foster" only in the spoken sense, not
in real life.

2. Stop calling every little nit-picky thing
"Imminent Danger" to trick around that requirement.
(Hint: State Care presents imminent danger also!)

That was one of the points of ASFA and CAPTA. Limit the time a child
was in care.

3. True Judicial oversight. Stop allowing Juvenile
Courts to be complete Rubber Stamps for caseworkers.
This defeats the entire purpose of Juvenile Court.
Juvenile Court exists to keep caseworkers from
violating the rights of families and kids.
This one-sided rubber stamping and even polarized
bias has to stop. They ignore motions from parents
for reasonable, basic and required fairness and
protection of rights.

You have a perception problem brought on by propaganda and your desire
to cover-up your treatment of the mother and child you have betrayed.

They ignore stupid little assholes like you and parents that have
stepped over the line (and even then they actually read the
motions...thus not actually ignoring them, other than to fall over
laughing).


4. Citizens Review Board,

ACYF-CB-PIQ-83-04(10/26/83) regarding 45 CFR 205.10
Grievance process on Services problems and

Administrative Appeal on Registry
are all broken or dead ended here.

So what have you to say, ignorantly as usual, about CRBs?

Why don't you do some actual research and stop snipping out just what
you want to believe and posting it over your ignorant claims?

If ANY government fails to provide these required protections, they
are guilty of emotional and psychological abuse of children and
parents,

Which protections?

and failure to protect citizens rights to due process.

Rarely happens. When it does it's the very best of events for those
that know how to use it to get their children back. It is wonderful
also for those that don't really want the children back and wish to
abuse and exploit the family themselves for their own ends.

In your case it was the careful attention to due process, and the
child's rights, that nailed your ass and that of your increasingly
stupid looking fiance. I can't imagine anyone would prefer you to a
dog let alone their own child.

Parens Patriae is NOT just about kids. Our governments make LOUSY
parents to citizens in general, and kids.

You are really hung up on your latin, aren't you?

It's you that have a Parens Patrieae situation with your fiance. She
is taking care of you like a child instead of her child.

My family has been betrayed for almost 3 years by corrupt State
officials.

No it hasn't. You don't have a family. You didn't marry the mother and
you still haven't. That shows clearly you won't even do that,
something you claim to want, that would help convince the court you
are sincere.

The remedy for this bad treatment of citizens probably won't come from
the State, and citizens have to beg the Federal Courts to protect them
from bad State Government officials.

Waaa, waaaa, waaaa, waaaa. Crocodile tears. You love what has happened
to your fiance and her daughter. You wouldn't have the soft spot
you've got without it.

This overriding by the Feds should not be necessary.
The States fail to protect their own citizens and
The Feds fail to protect citizens from bad state actors.

You are babbling again. Your weak submerged conscience must have tried
to surge upward again.

We get these posts from you quite often and it's becoming pretty
apparent that you can't hide from the truth of your brutality to the
child and her mother.


The HYSTERIA has to stop and RIGHTS need
to be put back on a pedestal.

The only sign of hysteria I see is your posting this drivel.

I charge them both with "failure to protect" in this regard.

How might they protect you, Greegor the Whore? You think they should
pay for you to live there? That state monies should be used to store
your trashy belongings?

Kane

Dan wrote
What's in place now as far as the system goes isn't bad.
The problem is the people at CPS who choose to
go after families who should be left alone or
referred to a different agency.

Do you mean what IS in place or what is SUPPOSED
to be in place? Ten year old required processes
designed to protect family rights are either
not in force, broken, or twisted and rigged to be
a complete dead end.

What's in place now as far as the system goes isn't bad.

Not bad for who?
Whose bread is getting buttered by this broken mess?

Certainly the kids and families are not
benefitting from this "AMERICAN GULAG".

Some people once sent folks to camps that were
stated to be "HEALTH AND WORK PROGRAMS". A slogan
about that remained over the gate to the camp
until liberated near the end of World War II.

Ireland's ""POTATO FAMINE"" was a complete myth
that is still perpetuated to this day. In truth,
Great Britain's warships drained the country of
foodstuffs and resources at gunpoint and hauled
it away to feed the rest of the U.K. There is a
map online of where the garrisons were, naming the
ships and some inventory information is known.
In recent history, inventory and lading info for
the ships was made to disappear from archives
because of the embarassing truth. Nonetheless,
some records do survive, and one in particular
reveals that Ireland was intentionally starved
to reduce population. In a move that ties back
to CPS activities, Great Britain received large
quantities of foreign aid from around the world
intended to help Ireland.

Greg wrote
For example, TEN YEARS AGO Every state was told to
have at least one, and in most cases 3 or more,
Citizens Review Boards over CPS case problems.

Not just over Foster Care, over CPS malfunction.

Iowa DID have a CRB two years ago which was all
loaded with Child Protection workers and
contractors, which by the way was against regulations.

Now there is NO CRB except over Foster Care.
( CRB combined with FC Review Board, now ICFCRB )

So, with something as cut and dried as the CRB
requirement not properly implemented, the money
has never been cut off.

[...]

I basically don't think ANY government, Fed or State
should be getting involved unless there is some
VERY serious reason to override CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

For the Federal OR State government to invoke
Parens Patriae, they need to:

1. Prove at least a reasonable ability to parent.
So far they have failed MISERABLY, generally
doing WORSE than many of their supposedly
failing parents. It's like the Hog calling
the Horse dirty.

2. Stop calling every little nit-picky thing
"Imminent Danger" to trick around that requirement.
(Hint: State Care presents imminent danger also!)

3. True Judicial oversight. Stop allowing Juvenile
Courts to be complete Rubber Stamps for caseworkers.
This defeats the entire purpose of Juvenile Court.
Juvenile Court exists to keep caseworkers from
violating the rights of families and kids.
This one-sided rubber stamping and even polarized
bias has to stop. They ignore motions from parents
for reasonable, basic and required fairness and
protection of rights.

4. Citizens Review Board,

ACYF-CB-PIQ-83-04(10/26/83) regarding 45 CFR 205.10
Grievance process on Services problems and

Administrative Appeal on Registry
are all broken or dead ended here.

If ANY government fails to provide these required protections, they
are guilty of emotional and psychological abuse of children and
parents, and failure to protect citizens rights to due process.
Parens Patriae is NOT just about kids. Our governments make LOUSY
parents to citizens in general, and kids.

My family has been betrayed for almost 3 years by corrupt State
officials.
The remedy for this bad treatment of citizens probably won't come from
the State, and citizens have to beg the Federal Courts to protect them
from bad State Government officials.

This overriding by the Feds should not be necessary.
The States fail to protect their own citizens and
The Feds fail to protect citizens from bad state actors.

The HYSTERIA has to stop and RIGHTS need
to be put back on a pedestal.

I charge them both with "failure to protect" in this regard.

"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message
t...
What's in place now as far as the system goes isn't bad.

The problem is the people at CPS who choose to go after families who
should
be left
alone or referred to a different agency.

Dan

Boy, you just making more of your Hoo-haw noise, apologizing for the cps.
Why you make apologies for cps for? If you work for the cps you just come
out and say it boy. Elsen, it's just more Hoo-haw STOP IT.

Doo-Wah