Another School Calendar issue

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


Five calendars, different start-end dates (not times), different
vacation/break times (tho all schools share Christmas and Spring break
dates and any official "holidays" such as Presidents' Day). Busses don't
matter so much here as the majority of our elementaries are zoned for
walkers. It's a neighborhood school concept I guess you could call it.
There are two elementary schools near our home. The closer one is across
a busy six-lane street so my son was zoned for the other one which
was slightly further but the route was safer.

Then why all theses different?? It's beggining to sound like a problem
engineered to be a problem.

Why? Because there aren't enough schools to house all the children. Each
elementary runs children through on a rotating basis. Each track
represents a separate group of children going thru the system. There isn't
room for all of them to be there at the same time so attendance must
be staggered. My son's elementary school served about 1100 students
but they were never all there at the same time.


Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks - morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?



In some cases yes as the biggest chunk of savings would come from less
money spent on teacher salaries. My old district lost 10 instructional
days last year, falling well short of what the state "requires."

Don't you lose funding and see some big newspaper headlines for that? Here in
NYS it's 180 days and that's it, although they do count weather-related early
dismissals and delayed openings into that.

Some of the districts received national headlines. To the best of my
knowledge, no funding was lost the first year. I know there were threats
of loss the second year. But my old district operates on a budget equal
to about 55% of what they had 12 years ago... There are virtually no
electives left. Libraries have been closed. Computer labs have been
dismantled. Pe, art, music? No. You'll find an average of 36 per primary
classroom. The numbers go up from there. Three schools in the district
have been closed and the children bussed to neighboring communities.
It's not pretty. Perhaps drastic conditions call for drastic measures.
This decline has been going on for about 13 years straight with no
relief. But it wasn't until last year when a school was closed in spite
of great community protest and the year was shortened that many citizens
actually woke up to the fact that something was wrong.

Frankly, I'd close the schools down completely and tell people
to move elsewhere if they wish to have access to public schools.


In my "vision," however, time wouldn't be lost. It would just be
distributed differently....

Four day weeks would be a major hassle for the community, though.


For some communities certainly. That particular community is tourist-
based. Having Fridays free probably gave some parents more time with
their kids. But in general yes, it would be a problem for many. We've
grown accustomed to using the school system to provide child care.

IIRC, you're is Las Vegas, right? Sounds like community limits are necessary -
you're also running ahead of your water supply, aren't you?

Banty

On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


Five calendars, different start-end dates (not times), different
vacation/break times (tho all schools share Christmas and Spring break
dates and any official "holidays" such as Presidents' Day). Busses don't
matter so much here as the majority of our elementaries are zoned for
walkers. It's a neighborhood school concept I guess you could call it.
There are two elementary schools near our home. The closer one is across
a busy six-lane street so my son was zoned for the other one which
was slightly further but the route was safer.

Then why all theses different?? It's beggining to sound like a problem
engineered to be a problem.

Why? Because there aren't enough schools to house all the children. Each
elementary runs children through on a rotating basis. Each track
represents a separate group of children going thru the system. There isn't
room for all of them to be there at the same time so attendance must
be staggered. My son's elementary school served about 1100 students
but they were never all there at the same time.


Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks - morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that you could only get two
tracks thru the day instead of five (unless you went around the clock
and sent children to school on the swing shift and graveyard shift).
Five sessions vs two.

I'm too lazy today to sit and figure personnel differences and costs.
On the surface, it seems to me you'd need more personnel if you ran
around the clock but maybe not. I might have a better picture if I
had actually worked in one of our year round schools but I've only
been in 10 month schools here (high school doesn't do year round).


In some cases yes as the biggest chunk of savings would come from less
money spent on teacher salaries. My old district lost 10 instructional
days last year, falling well short of what the state "requires."

Don't you lose funding and see some big newspaper headlines for that? Here in
NYS it's 180 days and that's it, although they do count weather-related early
dismissals and delayed openings into that.

Some of the districts received national headlines. To the best of my
knowledge, no funding was lost the first year. I know there were threats
of loss the second year. But my old district operates on a budget equal
to about 55% of what they had 12 years ago... There are virtually no
electives left. Libraries have been closed. Computer labs have been
dismantled. Pe, art, music? No. You'll find an average of 36 per primary
classroom. The numbers go up from there. Three schools in the district
have been closed and the children bussed to neighboring communities.
It's not pretty. Perhaps drastic conditions call for drastic measures.
This decline has been going on for about 13 years straight with no
relief. But it wasn't until last year when a school was closed in spite
of great community protest and the year was shortened that many citizens
actually woke up to the fact that something was wrong.

Frankly, I'd close the schools down completely and tell people
to move elsewhere if they wish to have access to public schools.


In my "vision," however, time wouldn't be lost. It would just be
distributed differently....

Four day weeks would be a major hassle for the community, though.


For some communities certainly. That particular community is tourist-
based. Having Fridays free probably gave some parents more time with
their kids. But in general yes, it would be a problem for many. We've
grown accustomed to using the school system to provide child care.

IIRC, you're is Las Vegas, right? Sounds like community limits are necessary -
you're also running ahead of your water supply, aren't you?

I'm in LV now (with the year round elementaries). But the district on the
4-day schedule is in Oregon. Schools could probably go 24/7 here and make
a lot of people happy Many daycare centers keep those hours. And if we
ran buffets and slots in the lobbies, I bet we could increase parental
involvement! (Think of the school-to-work possibilities for some of the
students!)

And yes, there is a water shortage. But I haven't heard of any plans to
limit growth.

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks - morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that you could only get two
tracks thru the day instead of five (unless you went around the clock
and sent children to school on the swing shift and graveyard shift).
Five sessions vs two.

But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


I'm too lazy today to sit and figure personnel differences and costs.

WhhhhhAAAAT!?? ;-)

On the surface, it seems to me you'd need more personnel if you ran
around the clock but maybe not. I might have a better picture if I
had actually worked in one of our year round schools but I've only
been in 10 month schools here (high school doesn't do year round).


Four day weeks would be a major hassle for the community, though.


For some communities certainly. That particular community is tourist-
based. Having Fridays free probably gave some parents more time with
their kids. But in general yes, it would be a problem for many. We've
grown accustomed to using the school system to provide child care.

IIRC, you're is Las Vegas, right? Sounds like community limits are necessary -
you're also running ahead of your water supply, aren't you?

I'm in LV now (with the year round elementaries). But the district on the
4-day schedule is in Oregon. Schools could probably go 24/7 here and make
a lot of people happy Many daycare centers keep those hours. And if we
ran buffets and slots in the lobbies, I bet we could increase parental
involvement! (Think of the school-to-work possibilities for some of the
students!)

Really? I thought locals weren't so much in for that stuff, but what do I know.

Last time I was in LV, I was attending a meeting of the American Phsycial
Society (it was in the '80s). Hear-tell revenues dropped significantly that
week - stuffing the MGM grand full of physicists did the tables no good (that's
a bunch who pretty much stay away).


And yes, there is a water shortage. But I haven't heard of any plans to
limit growth.



That's nuts.

Banty

On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks - morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that you could only get two
tracks thru the day instead of five (unless you went around the clock
and sent children to school on the swing shift and graveyard shift).
Five sessions vs two.

But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


Gotta think about this one

I'm not sure how to get two sessions for elementary in one day. How long
is each session? 7-1, 1:30-7:30?



I'm too lazy today to sit and figure personnel differences and costs.

WhhhhhAAAAT!?? ;-)

On the surface, it seems to me you'd need more personnel if you ran
around the clock but maybe not. I might have a better picture if I
had actually worked in one of our year round schools but I've only
been in 10 month schools here (high school doesn't do year round).


Four day weeks would be a major hassle for the community, though.


For some communities certainly. That particular community is tourist-
based. Having Fridays free probably gave some parents more time with
their kids. But in general yes, it would be a problem for many. We've
grown accustomed to using the school system to provide child care.

IIRC, you're is Las Vegas, right? Sounds like community limits are necessary -
you're also running ahead of your water supply, aren't you?

I'm in LV now (with the year round elementaries). But the district on the
4-day schedule is in Oregon. Schools could probably go 24/7 here and make
a lot of people happy Many daycare centers keep those hours. And if we
ran buffets and slots in the lobbies, I bet we could increase parental
involvement! (Think of the school-to-work possibilities for some of the
students!)

Really? I thought locals weren't so much in for that stuff, but what do I know.

Oh, neighborhood casinos are big business and just about every grocery
store and mini mart has slots. They're everywhere. Every time we go
to the movies, we have to navigate a couple miles of slots (unless
we go to the drive-in). Same if we want to go bowling. Someone out
here in the suburbs is using these things! It's not me tho. I've
spent about $1.75 so far and am $50 up. Ever since those lunch ladies
won the lottery tho... I told my assistant we should invest 50 cents
every pay check and see if we can't retire a bit early! I would never
be so lucky tho


Last time I was in LV, I was attending a meeting of the American Phsycial
Society (it was in the '80s). Hear-tell revenues dropped significantly that
week - stuffing the MGM grand full of physicists did the tables no good (that's
a bunch who pretty much stay away).

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


Gotta think about this one

I'm not sure how to get two sessions for elementary in one day. How long
is each session? 7-1, 1:30-7:30?

Well, especially since you're saying there's no music, PE, etc., it would be
like 7 - 12:00, 12:30 - 5:30

Banty

In article ,
Banty wrote:
In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We
used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks -
morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors
and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a
day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that you could only get two
tracks thru the day instead of five (unless you went around the clock
and sent children to school on the swing shift and graveyard shift).
Five sessions vs two.

But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.

I'm not personally familiar with year-round-school schedules, but my
understanding is that probably 4 of the 5 tracks are in school at any
given time. They differ in the months they get off. So, instead of
everyone being off for July and August, they go through the year,
giving everyone several shorter breaks instead. So, there are 52 weeks
in the year. Give 2 weeks of in December/January and you have left 50
weeks. Each of 5 tracks has 10 weeks off, no track has the same weeks
off as any other (and generally they;'re not all in a row -- supposedly
one of the other advantages -- not as much catch-up after 2 full months
off). If they guarantee to place all children in a family
in the same track, then they must have at least one class at each grade
level in each track.

So, yes, to answer your question, the tracks must be much smaller than
split-session tracks. (Assuming 1000 kids total, the school must be
able to hold 800 at once -- with split-session you could educate 1600
in the same school.) But what kind of hours do split-session students
attend? Assuming you still want the kids to get as many instructional
hours in each day, the hours for split-session must be pretty ugly. So
I think *that* is the benefit of year-round over split-session, assuming
you can *almost* accomodate the number of kids you have.

--Robyn

On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


Gotta think about this one

I'm not sure how to get two sessions for elementary in one day. How long
is each session? 7-1, 1:30-7:30?

Well, especially since you're saying there's no music, PE, etc., it would be
like 7 - 12:00, 12:30 - 5:30

No, the poor district without classes and days is in another state.

This district, the one that serves LV, is the one with year round schools.
We have art, music, pe, drama, libraries, computer labs, and in some
schools, more.

Sorry. I'm sure it's hard to keep track of my two district examples.

On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Robyn Kozierok wrote:

In article ,
Banty wrote:
In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

Oh! OK, this scenario is very familliar to this mid-boomer. We
used to call
that 'split sessions'. But there would basically be two tracks -
morning and
afternoon. To coordinate transportation resources and counsellors
and nurses,
etc. too. How'd you get so many tracks?

Because we have so many children and so few schools. Our district gets
about 1000 new students each month.

But are you actually dividing up, using each school several times a
day? Sounds
more like you're staggering them. So what's the advantage of that over split
sessions?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that you could only get two
tracks thru the day instead of five (unless you went around the clock
and sent children to school on the swing shift and graveyard shift).
Five sessions vs two.

But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.

I'm not personally familiar with year-round-school schedules, but my
understanding is that probably 4 of the 5 tracks are in school at any
given time. They differ in the months they get off. So, instead of
everyone being off for July and August, they go through the year,
giving everyone several shorter breaks instead. So, there are 52 weeks
in the year. Give 2 weeks of in December/January and you have left 50
weeks. Each of 5 tracks has 10 weeks off, no track has the same weeks
off as any other (and generally they;'re not all in a row -- supposedly
one of the other advantages -- not as much catch-up after 2 full months
off). If they guarantee to place all children in a family
in the same track, then they must have at least one class at each grade
level in each track.

So, yes, to answer your question, the tracks must be much smaller than
split-session tracks. (Assuming 1000 kids total, the school must be
able to hold 800 at once -- with split-session you could educate 1600
in the same school.) But what kind of hours do split-session students
attend? Assuming you still want the kids to get as many instructional
hours in each day, the hours for split-session must be pretty ugly. So
I think *that* is the benefit of year-round over split-session, assuming
you can *almost* accomodate the number of kids you have.


If you want to see the actual schedules, you can do so at

http://ccsd.net/news/calendar/calendars.html

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to say
about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one. With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


Gotta think about this one

I'm not sure how to get two sessions for elementary in one day. How long
is each session? 7-1, 1:30-7:30?

Well, especially since you're saying there's no music, PE, etc., it would be
like 7 - 12:00, 12:30 - 5:30

No, the poor district without classes and days is in another state.

This district, the one that serves LV, is the one with year round schools.
We have art, music, pe, drama, libraries, computer labs, and in some
schools, more.

Sorry. I'm sure it's hard to keep track of my two district examples.





Sorry :-)

So LV keeps up the art, music, PE, etc., even with all the students pouring in?
I guess they just pile them on just like the are the main stuff.

Banty

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...

On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:

In article ,
Joni
Rathbun says...


On 8 Nov 2003, Banty wrote:


But you have to be ultimately limited by school capacity (probably a
rather
stuffed-full capacity, but the fire department must have something to
say about
it). With split sessions, each session can be a full capacity one.
With
staggering, you must have smaller tracks.


Gotta think about this one

I'm not sure how to get two sessions for elementary in one day. How
long
is each session? 7-1, 1:30-7:30?

Well, especially since you're saying there's no music, PE, etc., it
would be
like 7 - 12:00, 12:30 - 5:30

No, the poor district without classes and days is in another state.

This district, the one that serves LV, is the one with year round schools.
We have art, music, pe, drama, libraries, computer labs, and in some
schools, more.

Actually, Clark County (the Las Vegas school district) has one of the best
elementary music programs in the country-they're the largest district which
requires Orff training for their teachers, and UNLV has one of the best
training programs anywhere for said teachers. When Memphis revised our
curriculum two years ago, we borrowed heavily from CC. And I'm not the only
Orff teacher here who ended up with a choice between CC and MCS after
recruiting was over. (In my case, my husband's job was out here).

You'd probably have to have two separate sets of teachers-otherwise you'd
either be over the number of hours allowed to be scheduled, or short on
planning time, or both. I expect in order to get multiple shifts in you'd
probably have to cut to a minimal schedule, since most parents don't really
like their young children getting on and off a bus (or worse, walking to
school) in the dark. And if you go to a minimal schedule, you've cut all
planning for teachers.

Sorry. I'm sure it's hard to keep track of my two district examples.