FAO Donna Metler and other music fiends!

Irene wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...

I really think that piano is better to start with.
You get a better grounding in music theory, because the
piano is the best at providing a spatial sense of the music.
It gives an opportunity to learn to read multiple lines of
music and multiple clefs. It's easy to go from multiple lines
and multiple clefs to a single line and single clef, but it's
much more difficult to do the reverse.

Well, as anecdotal evidence, I learned viola beginning in 4th grade.
In college, I tried to learn piano, but never really got the hang of
playing harmony with the left hand and melody with the right. So, you
probably have a good point with that. OTOH, I had no problem going on
to learn guitar in grad school.


Guitar music is more...ummm...what's the word?
linear? than piano music. I had a similar experience
having difficulty learning piano after playing flute for
eight or ten years. That's why my kids are starting with
piano ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Irene wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
...

I really think that piano is better to start with.
You get a better grounding in music theory, because the
piano is the best at providing a spatial sense of the music.
It gives an opportunity to learn to read multiple lines of
music and multiple clefs. It's easy to go from multiple lines
and multiple clefs to a single line and single clef, but it's
much more difficult to do the reverse.

Well, as anecdotal evidence, I learned viola beginning in 4th grade.
In college, I tried to learn piano, but never really got the hang of
playing harmony with the left hand and melody with the right. So, you
probably have a good point with that. OTOH, I had no problem going on
to learn guitar in grad school.


Guitar music is more...ummm...what's the word?
linear? than piano music. I had a similar experience
having difficulty learning piano after playing flute for
eight or ten years. That's why my kids are starting with
piano ;-)

The downside of this is that if a child is not successful at piano, it will
often turn them off music entirely, when another instrument would be
successful. Piano is absolutely NOT the end all and be all of music, and
doesn't necessarily make things easier later-for example, pianists often
don't develop any good sense of whether a note is in tune-because a piano
either is or isn't, and many home pianos are slightly out of tune all the
time. When they start playing an instrument where intonation is the
responsibility of the player, not a professional tuner, they often can't
hear, and have a hard time developing the focus needed to hear that a pitch
is off-because they've heard it off for so long, with no power to change it.
So if you have a piano, get it tuned, regularly, and once a year is NOT
enough.



Best wishes,
Ericka

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
"gale" wrote:


violin. it's lovely to hear how much he enjoys what you enjoy!


Why violin? Even my violinist friend seems to think piano is a better
starting instrument, for some reason, as does my very-talented-friend-who-can
get-a-tune-out-of-anything (though she started on piano).


I think she meant because the OP's son was enjoying violin music!

Personally, having started with the violin at 8, then moving to flute at
10 (and sticking with it), then oboe and finally trombone in the high
school marching band, I agree with you. I couldn't tune my violin and
wasn't talented enough to play in tune, and I could tell. Made me
crazy! At least the flute could be in tune with itself better. Wish I
could play the piano, too. I think there must be something special
about being able to read two different lines of music at once for two
different hands.

Take care,
Lisa

BTW, are (cheaper) electric pianos as good as the Real Thing for music
students these days, or is a Proper Piano still advisable? I am aware that
the very good ones are at least as pricey as a piano.

Donna Metler wrote:


The downside of this is that if a child is not successful at piano, it will
often turn them off music entirely, when another instrument would be
successful. Piano is absolutely NOT the end all and be all of music,


Certainly--as a non-piano player (despite the best efforts
of my class piano teachers) I would have to agree with that ;-)
But it does occupy a rather unique niche in that it provides a
really fabulous platform for exploration of harmony and theory.
If it's not working for a child, obviously do something different,
but I think it's a good first stab most of the time.

and
doesn't necessarily make things easier later-for example, pianists often
don't develop any good sense of whether a note is in tune-because a piano
either is or isn't, and many home pianos are slightly out of tune all the
time. When they start playing an instrument where intonation is the
responsibility of the player, not a professional tuner, they often can't
hear, and have a hard time developing the focus needed to hear that a pitch
is off-because they've heard it off for so long, with no power to change it.
So if you have a piano, get it tuned, regularly, and once a year is NOT
enough.


Agreed 100 percent on the intonation issue, but I had
far more deficits having played only flute for years and years
before I went to music school. I had little sense of harmony,
little knowledge of music theory, read only one clef fluently,
couldn't read multiple lines of music, etc. It wasn't the end
of the earth. I picked up what I needed and moved on. Still,
if I could go back in time and change things it would have
been nice to have had a few years of piano before concentrating
on flute. I'd love to at least be able to pick out
accompaniments! I know it's not a cure-all, but I'd rather
at least start out with that plan in the hopes that it will
work.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...
Irene wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...

I really think that piano is better to start with.
You get a better grounding in music theory, because the
piano is the best at providing a spatial sense of the music.
It gives an opportunity to learn to read multiple lines of
music and multiple clefs. It's easy to go from multiple lines
and multiple clefs to a single line and single clef, but it's
much more difficult to do the reverse.

Well, as anecdotal evidence, I learned viola beginning in 4th grade.
In college, I tried to learn piano, but never really got the hang of
playing harmony with the left hand and melody with the right. So, you
probably have a good point with that. OTOH, I had no problem going on
to learn guitar in grad school.


Guitar music is more...ummm...what's the word?
linear? than piano music. I had a similar experience
having difficulty learning piano after playing flute for
eight or ten years. That's why my kids are starting with
piano ;-)

Well, the big parallel between viola and guitar is that they are both
stringed instruments, where you determine the notes with your left
hand, and the rhythm with your right hand, IYKWIM. I've known a
couple of people who tried to learn guitar after playing trumpet, and
had a hard time going from doing everything all at once, so to speak,
to dividing it up by hand.

I haven't decided yet what to encourage for ds, since it still seems
pretty far away, and I know I'll let him have at least some input,
anyhow.

Irene

Irene wrote:


Well, the big parallel between viola and guitar is that they are both
stringed instruments, where you determine the notes with your left
hand, and the rhythm with your right hand, IYKWIM. I've known a
couple of people who tried to learn guitar after playing trumpet, and
had a hard time going from doing everything all at once, so to speak,
to dividing it up by hand.


True, but oddly enough I know a *lot* of people who've
gone from flute to guitar and had a relatively easy time of
it. I have no idea why.


I haven't decided yet what to encourage for ds, since it still seems
pretty far away, and I know I'll let him have at least some input,
anyhow.


Oh, absolutely. The child absolutely has to have
input and desire. Fortunately, my first really, really
wanted to play piano (begged for years before he got to
start) and the second wants to do anything the first
does (though he won't start for another year or two).

Best wishes,
Ericka

wrote:

The downside of this is that if a child is not successful at piano, it will
often turn them off music entirely, when another instrument would be
successful. Piano is absolutely NOT the end all and be all of music, and
doesn't necessarily make things easier later-for example, pianists often
don't develop any good sense of whether a note is in tune-because a piano
either is or isn't, and many home pianos are slightly out of tune all the
time.

I agree, which is why I'm very glad one of my daughters is having the chance to
take violin lessons at school as well as her private piano lessons. We're
considering either violin or cello lessons next year for our son (he likes the
idea of cello a *lot*, but it is more expensive to rent and more of a pain to
haul around).

I like my daughter's piano teacher a lot, and in many ways it would simplify
life if my son took piano lessons as well, particularly since my husband is a
good pianist, but given that he showed a really strong leaning towards strings
(I think it's unusual for a child to be so taken with an instrument as he was
with the cello, the time he had a chance to try it) I think we should run with
it.

--Helen

Ericka Kammerer wrote in message ...
Irene wrote:


Well, the big parallel between viola and guitar is that they are both
stringed instruments, where you determine the notes with your left
hand, and the rhythm with your right hand, IYKWIM. I've known a
couple of people who tried to learn guitar after playing trumpet, and
had a hard time going from doing everything all at once, so to speak,
to dividing it up by hand.


True, but oddly enough I know a *lot* of people who've
gone from flute to guitar and had a relatively easy time of
it. I have no idea why.

I don't suppose you know whether or not any of these people also
played piano, before or after any of those others? g The flute
player I know best (my sister) never tried to learn guitar...hmmm...an
experiment to try? It may also have been that the trumpet players I
knew were just not as musically inclined, or something like that. I'm
definitely working off a small sample size! FWIW, a large percentage
of the guitarists I know played piano first, now that I think about
it. Another never played an instrument until recently, but was in
concert choir for years.


I haven't decided yet what to encourage for ds, since it still seems
pretty far away, and I know I'll let him have at least some input,
anyhow.


Oh, absolutely. The child absolutely has to have
input and desire. Fortunately, my first really, really
wanted to play piano (begged for years before he got to
start) and the second wants to do anything the first
does (though he won't start for another year or two).

Well, then it's very convenient that you think that's the best
instrument to start with! ;-)

Irene

(H Schinske) wrote in message ...

I agree, which is why I'm very glad one of my daughters is having the chance to
take violin lessons at school as well as her private piano lessons. We're
considering either violin or cello lessons next year for our son (he likes the
idea of cello a *lot*, but it is more expensive to rent and more of a pain to
haul around).

I like my daughter's piano teacher a lot, and in many ways it would simplify
life if my son took piano lessons as well, particularly since my husband is a
good pianist, but given that he showed a really strong leaning towards strings
(I think it's unusual for a child to be so taken with an instrument as he was
with the cello, the time he had a chance to try it) I think we should run with
it.

--Helen

Look at it this way - there's a lot of music out there for violin
and/or cello with piano! And that way, different children can
practice at the same time, without the excuse, "But I can't practice
now, x is playing the piano!"

Irene

"Irene" wrote in message
om...
Ericka Kammerer wrote in message
...
Irene wrote:


Well, the big parallel between viola and guitar is that they are both
stringed instruments, where you determine the notes with your left
hand, and the rhythm with your right hand, IYKWIM. I've known a
couple of people who tried to learn guitar after playing trumpet, and
had a hard time going from doing everything all at once, so to speak,
to dividing it up by hand.


True, but oddly enough I know a *lot* of people who've
gone from flute to guitar and had a relatively easy time of
it. I have no idea why.

I don't suppose you know whether or not any of these people also
played piano, before or after any of those others? g The flute
player I know best (my sister) never tried to learn guitar...hmmm...an
experiment to try? It may also have been that the trumpet players I
knew were just not as musically inclined, or something like that. I'm
definitely working off a small sample size! FWIW, a large percentage
of the guitarists I know played piano first, now that I think about
it. Another never played an instrument until recently, but was in
concert choir for years.

In my case, I first tried to learn guitar in college, and was not at all
successful. A few years later, when I was starting to teach music, and
wanted something more portable than a piano, I tried again, with no problems
at all, and I am currently teaching (among other things) a beginning guitar
course for kids in grade 3 and up.

I almost never use piano in teaching music, although it was required for the
degree, because you either have a big piece of furniture between you and the
kids (and probably can't see them), or your back to them! Neither is good.

Guitar is odd, in that reading music is very secondary-chords and tab are
much more important. And one advantage a pianist has is that they've
probably done at least some playing with chord notation (unless they're VERY
classically trained, and NEVER tried to play outside that style) so it is
familiar. Wind players don't have to read chords until and unless they
decide to play Jazz.




I haven't decided yet what to encourage for ds, since it still seems
pretty far away, and I know I'll let him have at least some input,
anyhow.


Oh, absolutely. The child absolutely has to have
input and desire. Fortunately, my first really, really
wanted to play piano (begged for years before he got to
start) and the second wants to do anything the first
does (though he won't start for another year or two).

Well, then it's very convenient that you think that's the best
instrument to start with! ;-)

Irene