FAO Donna Metler and other music fiends!

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Vicki wrote:


Yeah, I wasn't thinking formal training for the three year old. Just
someone to show him how to make different notes, and he could play and
try
it as he wanted. But if he's not physically able to play, it wouldn't
make
sense to have him try. He's asking for a guitar (I'd been thinking
bongo
drums at his age.)


I'd probably stick with rhythm instruments, and maybe
a nice glockenspiel or some such thing. They can get a lot out
of those, and you can buy good quality instruments at a
reasonable price. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that
a nice guitar that was small enough for such little
fingers would be more money than I'd want to spend on
something that would be outgrown so soon. Plus, I don't
think guitar is all that easy on little fingers! They do
teach Suzuki violin that young (or at least some teachers
do). I've never been a fan, but some love it.

If you're going to buy percussion instruments for home use, I recommend the
Sonor Kinderglockenspiel. This is made specifically for kindermusik classes,
and is a very nice instrument for about $30. Only thing is that the bars ARE
a choking hazard for the below age 3 set. It doesn't have the full resonator
box the sonor classroom Orff instruments have, so is quieter, but has the
same quality of bars and a very nice sound.

Remo percussion (including their Kids' percussion line-the only difference
is that the instruments are smaller and in brighter colors), Boomwhackers
percussion tubes, LP and CP percussion, Basic Beat, and Nino are all
reliable brands which stand up even to classroom use well-and sound good.

The First Act line sold at some toy stores is actually not bad, either.


Our 5yo is asking for a horn. Sounds like he has to wait til 10 to be
able
to play a real one. I don't know if 5yo's can play toy horns (I've seen
toy
saxophones & trumpets) or if they sound good.


I haven't heard them, but my hunch is that they sound bad ;-)

I don't think even the 5yo is
ready for formal ongoing instruction. But if he has a real instrument
(other than a piano) I'd have to get someone else to teach him (us) the
basics b/c I know nothing.


My kids have asked to play various instruments.
I just told them that piano was the first stepping stone,
and they were fine with that. Fortunately, the first
really, really wants to be a percussionist, and piano
really *is* important for that. The second isn't quite
sure what he wants to play, but since his big brother
is playing piano, that's what he wants to do now ;-)


Some posters said start with a violin and the piano would be difficult,
or
with the piano and the violin would be difficult.


I don't think it messes anyone up in terms of being
able to play either. It's just how you learn to read and
process music. I started on flute and played that for years
before panicking and taking a little piano in high school in
the hopes of avoiding class piano requirements in music school
in college (didn't work). I found it somewhat torturous to
learn piano at that stage, just because I was so accustomed
to reading a single line of music in treble clef. If I hadn't
been a music major, I probably never would have touched a
piano and would have been fine, but as a music major I was
required to take piano, so I suffered ;-) Now, I wish I'd
started on piano partly to have gotten out of class piano in
college and partly just because it's a neat instrument to
be able to play (I frequently need an accompanist to fully
realize the pieces I play--piano music more often stands on
its own!)

Since I've never played
the violin I just wondered if playing that would mess up her progress on
the
piano. I frankly don't understand how a violin works. And I guess I
thought the music for all instruments was written the same--I'd never
thought about how it would have to be written differently from how its
written for piano.


It's mostly the same--just maybe in different clefs
(say, tenor or alto clef for a few instruments--most are in
treble or bass clef, though) and a single line instead of
multiple lines. Pretty much piano is as hard as it gets,
which is why it can be hard to go back and pick up piano
from a music reading standpoint ;-)

Its also often the hardest from a coordinational point of view, because you
have two hands and 10 fingers, all of which are moving independently. If a
child has real coordination problems and eye-hand problems, piano is NOT a
good choice to start on. Not at all forgiving. Which is one reason why I
don't subscribe to the "Everyone starts on piano" philosophy. I've seen too
many kids who start piano at age 6 and are turned off to music entirely by
age 7. Similarly, I have real problems with starting a child on any
instrument before they're physiologically ready for it-too easy to learn bad
habits. One of my friends, who is a Suzuki teacher, has commented that if
she gets a child at the age of 4, and one at the age of 6, they'll be at the
same point by age 7, because at age 6 the child is more developmentally
ready for violin than at age 4, so progress comes faster and is less
frustrating. I've noticed the same thing between starting wind players at
4th, 5th, or 6th grade-by the end of 6th, you really can't tell who is on
their third year, and who is on their first.



Good point. The 7yo is taking piano now. She practices about 15
minutes a
day. After your child plays the assigned pieces (takes about 10
minutes),
how do you have them practice? I've had her play the song and count out
the
measure (?) and play the song and say the notes she's playing, play the
song
and sing the words. But I'm not sure how productive that is. Do you
have
your child play the song over again til the time is up? Is there a
standard
way to approach practice? Does violin take more practice time than
piano?


Hmmm...my 8yo practices piano about 30-45 minutes a day
(though sometimes it's hard to find the time), but we never
have trouble filling up the time. He does probably 10 minutes
on scales and warmups (we can barely fit all his scales in that
amount of time--he does five-fingered scales parallel, contrary,
triad, arpeggio parallel, triad, arpeggio contrarty for each of
the major and minor scales he's learned so far, which is about
half of the majors and a quarter of the minors). Then he'll spend
another 10-20 minutes working on his technique book pieces,
then 10-15 minutes on whatever performance piece he's working
on, then a little time on theory. So it's really easy for us
to fill up the time! He started playing piano in September,
but he's ramped up fairly quickly. He's thriving on it,
though, and doesn't find the amount of work stressful. Our
only trouble has been carving out the practice time because
he's been such a stinker dragging his feet over his schoool
homework.


That is what I'd like to do! But I don't know much about playing
instruments or teaching music or even about how it is taught. I can see
my
kids have different learning styles and apply that to academic subjects,
but
have no idea how that applies to learning to play music, or which
instrument
might be best for each. Ironic, I'm not into sports, but I can kind of
see
how one child would be better suited to play baseball or golf, another's
personality seems more suited for football or hockey, and the third,
well,
maybe swimming or running. But I am not able to see what instrument
might
best suit them. Can you who are musically inclined see this in your
children? Have a sense of what instrument best suits them? And how
they'd
best be taught?

There is a Timbre preference test (published by Gia) which some music
teachers will use. I really like it-it uses different music and sound
samples, both real and synthesized instruments, to try to pick a sound range
and family which really appeals to the child. Then, coupled with the child's
physical body type, it is possible to pick an instrument on which the child
will probably be successful. I've definitely seen good results from this
sort of screening. It also helps to avoid the "everyone wants to play drums
and saxophone" problem. In my case, I'm definitely an alto instrument
person-low clarinets, saxophone, French horn, trombone, bassoon, English
horn, Viola, Cello. And, since I had the mouth for a reed player, Saxophone
and clarinet ended up being good choices for me.


Well, that's a really weird thing, I think. I guess
I *DO* have a notion about which instruments will suit my
kids, but I try really hard not to let on about that because
I suspect it's prejudiced based on years of playing in bands ;-)
*I* think my eldest is a percussionist and my second is a
trumpet player (third's still too young to know). I freely
admit that this is based on nothing concrete, and probably
as much on their personalities as anything else ;-) Oddly,
the first really *wants* to play percussion, so I find that
a little scary. I have no idea what the second wants yet
(neither does he, and it's not a thing I push). I just try
to expose them to many different kinds of music and instruments
and talk about what the various instruments are like and
what they sound like. I think if you do that, you'll find
out that they start to have preferences after a while, and
in plenty of time to make decisions about band or orchestra
instruments.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Donna Metler wrote:


Remo percussion (including their Kids' percussion line-the only difference
is that the instruments are smaller and in brighter colors), Boomwhackers
percussion tubes, LP and CP percussion, Basic Beat, and Nino are all
reliable brands which stand up even to classroom use well-and sound good.


Speaking of, what do you think about the Boomwhackers?
Do kids really like them? Is there an age range you find they're
particularly good with? I was toying with the idea of getting
them for Christmas gifts, but I'm wondering whether the concept
is better than the reality (or if I'd be sentencing myself, my
home, and all the inhabitants to getting Boomwhacked all the
time...). Are the whoosiwhatsits you put on the end to get the
octave something that kids would really use?



Its also often the hardest from a coordinational point of view, because you
have two hands and 10 fingers, all of which are moving independently. If a
child has real coordination problems and eye-hand problems, piano is NOT a
good choice to start on. Not at all forgiving. Which is one reason why I
don't subscribe to the "Everyone starts on piano" philosophy. I've seen too
many kids who start piano at age 6 and are turned off to music entirely by
age 7.


I do think you have to adjust to the kid, and that some
kids aren't ready to start on piano. On the other hand, a lot
of kids *do* seem very successful at it, particularly with a
teacher who is very good with younger children. I think six
is a little youngish for many kids to start, too.

Similarly, I have real problems with starting a child on any
instrument before they're physiologically ready for it-too easy to learn bad
habits. One of my friends, who is a Suzuki teacher, has commented that if
she gets a child at the age of 4, and one at the age of 6, they'll be at the
same point by age 7, because at age 6 the child is more developmentally
ready for violin than at age 4, so progress comes faster and is less
frustrating. I've noticed the same thing between starting wind players at
4th, 5th, or 6th grade-by the end of 6th, you really can't tell who is on
their third year, and who is on their first.


I certainly agree with this. I think people are often in
a huge hurry to get kids started with music. I don't see the
rush. My oldest just started piano at 8yo, and he's been
begging since he was four years old. He's much more ready for
it now than he would have been then, and he just loves it. He
can pick up reading music better, he has better coordination,
his hands are bigger, he has better concentration, and he has
better discipline. On the other hand, his piano teacher
just (reluctantly) took on two sisters who are five and six
years old, and they're doing beautifully (they've already
been playing harp, of all things, for a while). I think they're
unusually musical and unusually disciplined, though.


Best wishes,

Ericka

wrote:

I certainly agree with this. I think people are often in
a huge hurry to get kids started with music. I don't see the
rush.

I know why ;-) I was in a violin store the other day. Those 1/16 (or whatever
that really tiny size is) violins are just SO CUTE!

--Helen, not really serious

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Donna Metler wrote:


Remo percussion (including their Kids' percussion line-the only
difference
is that the instruments are smaller and in brighter colors),
Boomwhackers
percussion tubes, LP and CP percussion, Basic Beat, and Nino are all
reliable brands which stand up even to classroom use well-and sound
good.


Speaking of, what do you think about the Boomwhackers?
Do kids really like them? Is there an age range you find they're
particularly good with? I was toying with the idea of getting
them for Christmas gifts, but I'm wondering whether the concept
is better than the reality (or if I'd be sentencing myself, my
home, and all the inhabitants to getting Boomwhacked all the
time...). Are the whoosiwhatsits you put on the end to get the
octave something that kids would really use?

Boomwhackers are nice, but work best in a group (think handbells). You do
need to set ground rules on them-because otherwise, they become weapons
quite easily. There are several nice books of 8 note songs to do with them,
as well as a lot of classroom activities. But for only one or two children,
I don't know if they'd be as good. I have 6 sets in my classroom-enough that
on most songs, every child can have one.

The octavator caps work well-in fact, I'd recommend them over the bass
boomwhackers-the bass ones are so long that they're a pain to store and bend
QUITE easily. My kids really like the lower sounds, and one of the things we
use them for in a class setting is to replace the bass bars part (since I
don't have bass bars, and given that a single contrabass bar costs
equivalent to a whole soprano or alto xylophone, probably won't get them) .




Its also often the hardest from a coordinational point of view, because
you
have two hands and 10 fingers, all of which are moving independently. If
a
child has real coordination problems and eye-hand problems, piano is NOT
a
good choice to start on. Not at all forgiving. Which is one reason why I
don't subscribe to the "Everyone starts on piano" philosophy. I've seen
too
many kids who start piano at age 6 and are turned off to music entirely
by
age 7.


I do think you have to adjust to the kid, and that some
kids aren't ready to start on piano. On the other hand, a lot
of kids *do* seem very successful at it, particularly with a
teacher who is very good with younger children. I think six
is a little youngish for many kids to start, too.

Similarly, I have real problems with starting a child on any
instrument before they're physiologically ready for it-too easy to learn
bad
habits. One of my friends, who is a Suzuki teacher, has commented that
if
she gets a child at the age of 4, and one at the age of 6, they'll be at
the
same point by age 7, because at age 6 the child is more developmentally
ready for violin than at age 4, so progress comes faster and is less
frustrating. I've noticed the same thing between starting wind players
at
4th, 5th, or 6th grade-by the end of 6th, you really can't tell who is
on
their third year, and who is on their first.


I certainly agree with this. I think people are often in
a huge hurry to get kids started with music. I don't see the
rush. My oldest just started piano at 8yo, and he's been
begging since he was four years old. He's much more ready for
it now than he would have been then, and he just loves it. He
can pick up reading music better, he has better coordination,
his hands are bigger, he has better concentration, and he has
better discipline. On the other hand, his piano teacher
just (reluctantly) took on two sisters who are five and six
years old, and they're doing beautifully (they've already
been playing harp, of all things, for a while). I think they're
unusually musical and unusually disciplined, though.


Best wishes,

Ericka

H Schinske wrote:

wrote:


I certainly agree with this. I think people are often in
a huge hurry to get kids started with music. I don't see the
rush.


I know why ;-) I was in a violin store the other day. Those 1/16 (or whatever
that really tiny size is) violins are just SO CUTE!

--Helen, not really serious


Do you have Tiny Things Disease too? I find I'm
always attracted to miniatures. For instance, I *adore*
child-sized furniture, but really, how much of that do
you need anyway?!

Take care,
Ericka

Donna Metler wrote:


Boomwhackers are nice, but work best in a group (think handbells). You do
need to set ground rules on them-because otherwise, they become weapons
quite easily. There are several nice books of 8 note songs to do with them,
as well as a lot of classroom activities. But for only one or two children,
I don't know if they'd be as good. I have 6 sets in my classroom-enough that
on most songs, every child can have one.


Hmmm...that's sort of what I was afraid of. They
looked like great fun, but maybe I should just take a pass.

Best wishes,
Ericka

x-no-archive:yes



Vicki wrote:


At what age can a child be taught different musical instruments? Can a 5yo
learn to play a brass instrument? A reeded instrument?? Can a 3yo learn to
play guitar? When are they able to do that?

My mom begged for lessons but her parents wouldn't let her take them
until they had the money to pay the best teacher. She had violin
lessons - she does not play at all now - any instrument.

She wanted us to do better so she started us with group piano lessons
- I'm not sure exactly when but we were elementary age. My sister
started orchestra when she was in 5th grade with a clarinet. The
program did not exist when I was in 5th grade, so I taught myself to
play (wrong). I was 2.5 years older, so I was about 11 then. I
played clarinet up to 10th grade when my self teaching caught up to me
and I'd have had to go back and relearn everything all over again. I
took piano right up to senior year in college. (I went to Oberlin but
I was a college and not a conservatory student.)

I started my two older girls on piano when they were about 4 and 6
teaching them myself under the long distance instruction from my
sister who was a piano teacher. DD#1 continues to play to this day.
DD#2 stopped playing piano when she was about in the 6th grade because
the teacher refused to put up with her attitude, and DD#3 stopped due
to lack of interest in getting another teacher when her teacher got
cancer and died - also she had other after school activities and I was
working full time by then which made it difficult.

The older one started clarinet in Maryland in school in 4th grade and
then we moved to RI and the school didn't do band instruments until
7th grade. Her younger sister (back in Maryland) in 5th grade was
told that she could not start a year late, and taught herself to play.
(She would get up a 5 to practice which caused her dad to forbid her
to do that. She would go downstairs into the bathroom and shut the
door and practice there where he couldn't hear her.)

DD#1 played in the band all the way through high school including in
the state clarinet ensemble. She had a school alto clarinet. DD#2
played in the band for the first two years. She had a school bass
clarinet and played the bass drum in marching band. DD#3 also played
the school bass clarinet but opted out of band in HS as she didn't
think she was good enough. I could not get DS to do piano or clarinet
although he did take voice lessons for awhile.


grandma Rosalie