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#1
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Where IS that blasted LINE?
The first experience a child has with abuse is when they are hit by
their protector, who up until that moment was believed to be loving, supportive, and value the child. The next experience is when that same adult teaches the child to suppress their natural fear of pain. The LINE, is artificially created, most abusive, to the eyes of the beholder, but never to the child internally, at that point where they child has their denial of fear and justifiable rage at being attacked by their so called protector....their parent or caregiver. The damage is done, and continues to be done, but now is carefully hidden away, festering. And the world as it is now is the proof that this condition of hidden rage and denial of childhood pain exists and comes back to haunt the society of the child. Lingering Effects of Child Abuse and Neglect 12 Jun 2005 It has long been known that childhood abuse, neglect, or the loss of a parent are associated with adult psychiatric disorders. Now, researchers are discovering how early experiences affect a person's psychological and physical health. The June issue of the Harvard Mental Health Letter reports that childhood trauma and loss can cause prolonged hypersensitivity to stress by upsetting the brain's regulation of stress responses. ..................more at the link below: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=26000 |
#2
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Well... maybe, if this is true, CPS should sit up, take notice, and
recognize causing a child to lose their parents is serious business. The article does notice that the kind of stress-parental loss, neglect, or abuse-may also make a difference. Seems to me their are kids who don't recognize neglect and/or abuse in the same light as CPS and being removed by 'authority' creates problems than can later be blamed on the parent. bobb |
#3
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bobb wrote: Well... maybe, if this is true, CPS should sit up, take notice, and recognize causing a child to lose their parents is serious business. They do. Workers learn this at their first training. It's a mantra throughout their professional life, as it is for foster's throughout their volunteering career. The article does notice that the kind of stress-parental loss, neglect, or abuse-may also make a difference. Yes, of course. I've never seen a single training or information on this subject that did NOT do so. None every claimed there was no adverse effects from removing a child from their parents. That's why it's so laughable that you jokers continue to pretend it's the rule, rather than the exceptions you are bound to find in a ng such as this. Seems to me their are kids who don't recognize neglect and/or abuse in the same light as CPS and being removed by 'authority' creates problems than can later be blamed on the parent. No, in fact the opposite is the rule. The child RARELY blames their parent even if the parent did horrendous even life threatening injury to the child. That's the nature of the parent child relationship. In all my years interacting with so very many people I got ONE person ONE, that identified his parents as the source of his problems in life, and his adoptive parents as the source of his healing...and his gratitude for CPS giving him the good life he enjoyed growing up, and his success as an adult. HE WAS LIVID AT THE IDEA ONE WOULD NOT TELL A CHILD HIS PARENTS HAD FAILED HIM, but that's the way it goes. Children are NOT told their parents are bad. I sometimes look at that memory of that man (he made this a very public statement) and think maybe HE'S the healthiest, and society may be doing damage to children to continue the fiction that the abusive parents was "okay" and couldn't help it because of "drugs" or "mental illness" or "domestic violence" etc. Many adults finally come to mourn the pain of childhood with an abusive parent, and darned if they don't have to go through the rage stage to heal. But then I no longer, and havent' for years, worked with the child population, but I can tell you that when I did it was considered professional malpractice to bad mouth parents to the child, not matter WHAT the parent had done to them. bobb Could bobber the swift be learning? We can only hope. 0:- |
#4
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Kane:
You're STILL playing with this LINE obsession? Not very creative are you? You think you are a master propagandist or what? The LAW defines when the LINE is crossed. It is a legal construct only. You had your WALDO on this long ago, but obsessively you start new threads titled Where's Waldo... What YOU think is witty propaganda is not. You start new threads as if you have severe ADD and can't stay on a subject thread, but it seems that you think you gain some sort of Public Relations advantage by pretending you are mentally disconnected from the old thread. (Seems like a CULT type of mental process) If a person looks past that aspect, you appear to be repeating a question that was already effectively and truthfully answered. (Also a CULT type of mental process) You "hash something out" interactively, but then throw out everything you don't want to hear and pretend that it was not hashed out. You even get it hooked up to a web based commercial site looking for content, but conveniently without any context that nails you to a tree. Just keep humming your mantra... |
#5
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http://katu.com/stories/77633.html
When you, the parent of small children, think you know where The Line is and decide to spank, consider the information in this simple study: June 12, 2005 Study emphasizes that mental illness often begins in childhood TOOLS Email this story to a friend Printer-friendly Version By LINDSEY TANNER AP Medical Writer CHICAGO - Most mental illness hits early in life, with half of all cases starting by age 14, a survey of nearly 10,000 U.S. adults found. Many cases begin with mild, easy-to-dismiss symptoms such as low-level anxiousness or persistent shyness, but left untreated, they can quickly escalate into severe depression, disabling phobias or clinical anxiety, said Ronald Kessler, a Harvard Medical School researcher involved in the study. " [[[ Just think, YOU could be hitting a child (spanking?) that is in fact suffering an undetected mental illness. Doesn't that just make you the proud and wonderful parent though? Surely you can spank the illness out of them, can't you? ]]] |
#6
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Greegor wrote: Kane: You're STILL playing with this LINE obsession? Well, considering that no one has answered it adequately for the safety of the child, yes, I'm still having that particular "obsession" and will until parents stop claiming they are the "best judge" of where that line is. You will see a wonderful little article I posted a link to on this very subject...of how difficult it is to tell what your child's internal state of mind and condition is. http://katu.com/stories/77633.html Not very creative are you? Important matters don't require a great deal of creativity, but I thought I've approached this issue from so many angles now, to bring attention to it, that your accusation is empty and hollow, like your head. You think you are a master propagandist or what? My name, though four letters, is not "Doug." The LAW defines when the LINE is crossed. Notice that even YOU had to use, in YOUR argument, the past tense. It is a legal construct only. Yes, I know that. That is NOT the claim of the parents that have come here, nor Doan who supports them making this choice, but rather that they have some magical or intellectual "parent superiority" to make this choice and NOT injure the child. The legal definition only works AFTER the damage is done. Hardly useful to a new parent, or one trying to decide if their child is up to the hitting today, now is it? Those who claim they LOVE their child, and hit them only out of love and concern, seem to not be thinking about that at all, when they hit....not thinking about whether or not they will "cross the line," and they cannot, of course...because until it's crossed (and sometimes even then...brrrrr) they cannot tell where it is. You had your WALDO on this long ago, I am not sure your reference is accurate. Please explain. but obsessively you start new threads titled Where's Waldo... Ah, I see. Yes, I do. And no, no one has provided a "Waldo" as yet. Your attempt, with the legal definition, is a vapid and empty when attempting to actually address The Question as I asked it, as Doan's empty rattlining and spastic monkey dance responses. No, greegor. The question directly addressed the claim of some parents that they KNOW where that line is and have a right to hit up to that line. I merely asked how they know before they cross it. What YOU think is witty propaganda is not. Sometimes I'm witty and sometimes I'm more deadly serious. YOU get to enjoy either and guess which is my intent this time. You start new threads as if you have severe ADD Please explain. and can't stay on a subject thread, Mmmm...greegor, don't look now, but if one wants to move from the subject thread the standard protocol is to...honest now...really...I'm not kidding, START A NEW FUGGERING THREAD. Unlike YOU that wanders repeatedly away from the thread to try and make the subject about YOU, when it isn't, I know to leave the thread if I wish to discuss something else. but it seems that you think you gain some sort of Public Relations advantage by pretending you are mentally disconnected from the old thread. (Seems like a CULT type of mental process) Well, if we are discussing say ritual abuse, and I wish to discuss The Line in hitting and spanking, I'd hardly be a decent respectful poster if I just took off on it without good reason. So, I, start, a, new, thread. In fact, what seems to be happening here, 0:- is that YOU are going off on a tangent that might well deserve a new thread. We are NOT discussing the subject line at this time: "Where IS that blasted LINE?" Now are we? If a person looks past that aspect, you appear to be repeating a question that was already effectively and truthfully answered. No, it's never been effectively and truthfully answered. It's been continually lied about, the actual question as asked carefully avoided. All kinds of unrelated answers have been sloppily tarted up and thrown is as they they meant something. They have been, all of them, classic dodges, except those that come closer, even by a bit, to the truth.....there is NO SUCH LINE, until it's been crossed. The physics alone define it as unanswerable before the fact. Here are just some of the issues a parent must face, or be lying in his or her claim that they "know best where the line is for their child:" 1 - how hard to hit ( you got a spankometer to determine speed, mass, impact?) 2 - what to hit with (switch, board, shoe, rope, hand -- front or back --) 3 - how many swats per session 4 - how often (intervals) 5 - the child's state of mind at the time 6 - the child's physical condition at the time 7 - if they are immobile or might move and get themselves hit in a more vulnerable even dangerous spot 8 - where to hit 9 - in alternative CP, like "hot saucing" the questions mount even higher. In other words, dummy, I'm quite aware the answer is "There IS no Line" but on the exceedingly rare chance I'm wrong, it's only fair that I ask this question so that spankers have the opportunity to prove me wrong, and defend their practice of hitting children and calling it loving. (Also a CULT type of mental process) No, in fact the insistence, in the fact of simple facts, such as my list above that spanking can be so controlled as to not cross that line and the parent has that knowledge and skill is what is cult line mental processing. The idea that children learn to do anything but obey out of fear by being hit is what is CULT mental processing. And this is one cult that needs destroying. Either by those practicing the horrific betrayal that spanking is do so voluntarily, or by the force of law. You "hash something out" interactively, but then throw out everything you don't want to hear and pretend that it was not hashed out. Please provide some examples of Douggie behavior of that kind to me, if you don't mind. I'd like to see what I've thrown out on this question of The Line. You even get it hooked up to a web based commercial site looking for content, Which commercial site are you referring to? And what indicates to you they are looking for content? but conveniently without any context that nails you to a tree. And I have no Christ complex. I think you, with your claim the state of Iowa is out to get you might have some problem in that area though. That, by the way, was classically bobber the swift in obtuseness. "but conveniently without any context that nails you to a tree?" Want to explain? I'm sure it's witty and clever as hell. I'm just unable to fathom it. Just keep humming your mantra... You can count on me. As long as this ng is here, and I am able, and the question is unresolved, you will see me here, asking this and similar questions: "Where IS that blasted LINE?" When parents can answer it, and the answer is to the question as I asked it, which you can find by googling, and it shows that parents do indeed have this knowledge and powerful intellect and self control, I'll leave here in shame. I have a funny feeling you'll be seeing me here for a very long time. Lemme put it this way, little coward. You ****s just want to hit kids. 0:- |
#7
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Where is the rest of the story?
The APA also put one out that 1/4 of all Americans are mentally ill. The BEEF COUNCIL says their meat is free of BST and mad cow. The Blueberry Association preaches the health benefits of chemicals found in blueberries. Why WOULDN'T the psychologists like to promote the urgent NEED for their own profession? Duh? CPS agencies are constantly seeking money to expand. Big deal. Defense Contractors always have "cost overruns" beyond what they won the bid for. Is this news? Kane: Even the mentally ill need to conform. If 1/4 of all US adults are undiagnosed mentally ill, then maybe spanking is what made them CONFORM to civilized society so they could pass? If so, then spanking has worked WONDERS compared to the ineffectual mental health INDUSTRY! That's a better success rate than they have! |
#8
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Greegor wrote: Where is the rest of the story? The APA also put one out that 1/4 of all Americans are mentally ill. I think they underestimate a bit...but then I could be biased by the company I keep. 0:- The BEEF COUNCIL says their meat is free of BST and mad cow. That is not what they say. The Blueberry Association preaches the health benefits of chemicals found in blueberries. Yes, I think they are accurate. I have a great many blueberry bushes in fact. Gourmet varieties, not he common commercial kinds. Ever see a blueberry the size of a cherry, and tangy and sweet? Why WOULDN'T the psychologists like to promote the urgent NEED for their own profession? Duh? Because they have more business than they can handle, but they are professionally obligated to point out the truth about mental health from studies. Do you really think psychologists are short of clients? R R R R R .... CPS agencies are constantly seeking money to expand. Big deal. It's natural given the horrendous shortfall they have operated under. CPS is the stepchild of state government. I've been in all kinds of state offices, and I can see the extreme disparity between say a liquor commission, or department of transportation office, and a CPS office. It's criminal. The latter gets old run down buildings under lease that owners will not honor without threat of suit. Tattered carpets, indifferent contracted janitorial services. Low rated computer systems compared to the state parks system or others I've mentioned above. It's a joke. The public is adamant they get their booze, and their roads, and they'll pay for the privelege (gas taxes, and liqour taxes often go directly to those agencies to fund them) while they will scream "do something about the children" but will NOT allocate adequate funding to actually do much at all. Defense Contractors always have "cost overruns" beyond what they won the bid for. Is this news? Not at all. CPS does not bid. They do though, have the equivalent of cost overruns. A dip in the economy, child abuse goes up quickly. In a few weeks in fact. While budgets are figured usually on a two year cycle. Legilators will tend to look at the lowest cost times and use them to calculate budgets, ignoring that the population is growing, and that their state may be having a down turn economically that will get worse. At least ignoring when it comes to child protection. Kane: Even the mentally ill need to conform. I didn't say that. If 1/4 of all US adults are undiagnosed mentally ill, then I didn't say this either. maybe spanking is what made them CONFORM to civilized society so they could pass? I don't recall saying that. If so, then spanking has worked WONDERS compared to the ineffectual mental health INDUSTRY! Adn I certainly didn't say that! That's a better success rate than they have! Why did you lead that paragraph with "Kane:" my signature? That was YOUR babbling. And no, you haven't proven any such claim; that "spanking is what made them CONFORM to civilized society so they could pass." What kind of sick **** is that? Much of the mental illness I saw in children were tracable to their treatment at the hands of their parents. We had them all examined neurologically, and we KNEW if any kids had psychiatri, as opposed to psychological disorders, and we referred them on to proper treatment facilities for psychiatric cases. Which of those two do you intend spanking into "sane" behavior, and conforming to society, greegor? 0:-| |
#10
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bobb wrote: "Pop" wrote in message ... wrote: http://katu.com/stories/77633.html When you, the parent of small children, think you know where The Line is and decide to spank, consider the information in this simple study: June 12, 2005 Study emphasizes that mental illness often begins in childhood TOOLS Email this story to a friend Printer-friendly Version By LINDSEY TANNER AP Medical Writer CHICAGO - Most mental illness hits early in life, with half of all cases starting by age 14, a survey of nearly 10,000 U.S. adults found. Many cases begin with mild, easy-to-dismiss symptoms such as low-level anxiousness or persistent shyness, but left untreated, they can quickly escalate into severe depression, disabling phobias or clinical anxiety, said Ronald Kessler, a Harvard Medical School researcher involved in the study. " [[[ Just think, YOU could be hitting a child (spanking?) that is in fact suffering an undetected mental illness. Doesn't that just make you the proud and wonderful parent though? Surely you can spank the illness out of them, can't you? ]]] Hmmm... I've not known of many 14 year olds getting spanked. 14 was the average onset age...in other words, when it was detected. There was no difference in the psychology of the child, from birth up, bobber. All the potential and vulnerabilities was already present, and you want to start spanking them how early? As I think of it, I do know a number of 14 years that probably didn't get spanked enough. Oh, you mean spanking didn't work, so beatings were in order, eh? I've known thousands of kids that were not spanked and not ONE, bobber, that turned out bad. NOT ONE. bobb Many now are raising their children without spanking....it's like they never heard of it....and of course they haven't by personal experience. So it's totally foreign to them and it's perfectly natural for them to raise their children as they were.....in trust, and support for the child's learning. Sad about the rest of you. 0:- |
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