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#81
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teenager breaking curfew
Stephanie wrote:
It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that. I think that's one of those fundamental dichotomies in the world: those who are happy to learn from others' mistakes, versus those who just plain have to find out for themselves ;-) Best wishes, Ericka |
#82
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teenager breaking curfew
"enigma" wrote in message
are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all night to get there & back. most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the library until it closed at 1am. is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party types get more press? Yes, most of them are. You seem to be a rare bird in that you didn't stay up late. When I was growing up on college campus, it was rare that anyone wasn't out partying. Also, I have read that the brain of a teenager doesn't mature until they are in their 20's. There are exceptions to every rule of course, I was pretty mature for my age, but still got into a lot of trouble and did things that I am surprised I am still alive these days. -- Sue (mom to three girls) |
#83
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teenager breaking curfew
Banty wrote:
At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew? Marriage? (Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it? Where's that transition time? I think it's a really individual choice, depending on the individuals involved and the circumstances. I think for a lot of kids, they never need a curfew and all that's appropriate is a rule that they keep you informed of where they are and when they'll be back, and they update you promptly if there are any changes. Other kids may need a very strict curfew for some period of time, followed by a gradual transfer of responsibility as they mature and demonstrate appropriate behavior. For some, a curfew might show up only as a consequence for inappropriate behavior. I'm not sure there is even a one-size-fits-most point in time at which curfews go from appropriate to inappropriate. Best wishes, Ericka |
#84
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teenager breaking curfew
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Banty wrote: At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew? Marriage? (Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it? Where's that transition time? I think it's a really individual choice, depending on the individuals involved and the circumstances. I think for a lot of kids, they never need a curfew and all that's appropriate is a rule that they keep you informed of where they are and when they'll be back, and they update you promptly if there are any changes. Other kids may need a very strict curfew for some period of time, followed by a gradual transfer of responsibility as they mature and demonstrate appropriate behavior. For some, a curfew might show up only as a consequence for inappropriate behavior. I'm not sure there is even a one-size-fits-most point in time at which curfews go from appropriate to inappropriate. There isn't a one-size fits all approach in a particular community. Parents and kids have different needs and personalities. In addition, considering the many different types of communities in which people live with differences in religious influence, area (south vs. midwest) and density (rural vs. urban), schools, socioeconomic status and ethnic variations, there can't be a one-size fits all approach. Jeff Best wishes, Ericka |
#85
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teenager breaking curfew
On Mar 11, 1:47*pm, Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says.... Ericka Kammerer wrote: Banty wrote: In article , Ericka Kammerer says... enigma wrote: *are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all night to get there & back. *most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the library until it closed at 1am. *is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party types get more press? I think both sorts occur in abundance. The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-) They do? *I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. *Not by a long shot. That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up. Actually, I'd disagree with that. *There are plenty of folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno, a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) *There are also plenty who do. *Takes all sorts, and all that. Best wishes, Ericka It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that. Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still could fall back on their parents if need be. I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm still around (meaning my kid is still around home). *It makes zero sense to me to have it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the household. There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at that age (being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-). But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had one and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild enough to need it but won't be cooperating. At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew? Marriage? *(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daughters.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it? *Where's that transition time? I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20. I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents. Its also a strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out* I expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited to restricting access to cash and vehicles. Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews? Barbara |
#86
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teenager breaking curfew
On Mar 10, 8:28�pm, toto wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:25:17 GMT, Nan wrote: I don't get the whole "at 18 they shouldn't have a curfew" thought process as a generalization. I think curfew depends on the situation. �An 18 or 19 year old who is still in high school might need one at least on school nights, but I also think that a senior in high school ought to be mature enough to realize his or her own sleep needs. Oh, man. I was an absolutely *middle-aged* teenager (the only time I can even remember being out after midnight was accompanying my dad to the opera, of all things), and even *I* had no judgment about sleep needs. --Helen |
#87
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teenager breaking curfew
In article ,
Barbara says... On Mar 11, 1:47=A0pm, Banty wrote: In article , Stephanie says.= .. Ericka Kammerer wrote: Banty wrote: In article , Ericka Kammerer says... enigma wrote: =A0are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all night to get there & back. =A0most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the library until it closed at 1am. =A0is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party types get more press? I think both sorts occur in abundance. The quieter sorts do try to be party types ;-) They do? =A0I'm sure some do, but certainly not all. =A0Not by a long shot. That's part of the *point* of getting out and growing up. Actually, I'd disagree with that. =A0There are plenty of folks who never feel the urge to sow their wild oats, and it's not like those who don't are incomplete and doomed to, I dunno, a particularly wild mid-life crisis or something ;-) =A0There are also plenty who do. =A0Takes all sorts, and all that. Best wishes, Ericka It seems to me that folks who DONT go sow their wild oats learned their lessons the easy way. And they should be thankful for that. Often the easy way being, that they had some latitude while they still cou= ld fall back on their parents if need be. I'd rather see some of the early-adulthood exploration happen when I'm sti= ll around (meaning my kid is still around home). =A0It makes zero sense to me= to have it happen after I've kicked him out over questions of control in the house= hold. There may be some kids who both need and would brook to curfew rules at th= at age (being careful not to be so blackandwhite ;-). But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had = one and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild eno= ugh to need it but won't be cooperating. At what point do some folks here think it's time not to have a curfew? Marriage? =A0(Beliavsky - that's your cultural answer, and only for daught= ers.) College when there's just nothing you can do about it? =A0Where's that tra= nsition time? I'm not sure when I would stop giving my child a curfew. I suppose when I deemed him ready. Maybe that will be 15; maybe it will be 20. I don't know in advance. I think its absurd to draw a bright line that all teens are ready to function without a curfew at age 18, and to suggest that those who disagree are bad parents. The bright line is drawn by many areas of the law, first of all. In recognition of where development is at that point for most. Its also a strawman to argue that the choices are *obey* or *kick the kid out* I don't think everyone thinks so, or that anyone necessarily thinks so, and didn't pose it as a strawman. Some here *have* said so, and I think that that, when it's said, is contradictory. But I'm not arguing "those who support a curfew at 18 also think x and I'll shoot that down." Because I don't think that's what some others are saying. I expect that I will have an entire arsenal of consequences for disobeying rules when my son is a teenager, including but not limited to restricting access to cash and vehicles. Why are you drawing the line at 18? Why not 17? Why not 16, when most kids get dirvers licenses and are no longer reliant upon parents for transportation? Why not when they start high school? Many people deem their kids old enough to go to overnight camp at age 8. If they can be away for the summer, why should they have curfews? Overnight camp under close adult supervision is quite a different thing from a curfew. (Now, that *would* be a strawman - "you said curfews at 18 are bad because that means kids can't go on overnight camp at age 8.") Banty |
#88
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teenager breaking curfew
On Mar 11, 10:47�am, Banty wrote:
But I think for the most part, they either don't *need* the curfew (I had one and totally didn't need it; should have defied it *more*), or are wild enough to need it but won't be cooperating. See, I think of the curfew as a *privilege*, that comes after a long time of not being allowed to go out at night on one's own at all. It seems quite a natural progression to me that you allow behaviors of various levels of risk to occur at different ages. At first kids are too young to keep out of traffic or keep from getting lost -- they shouldn't be out of an adult's sight. Later, they can venture further and further, and at more and more varied times of day. Eventually they can be out quite late at night, but not terrifically late. I don't see anything odd about that. Plenty of quite trustworthy kids can be airheads about time, especially when overtired. And yes, the idea that you should suddenly not have a curfew at age 18, regardless of whether anything else at all has changed about your circumstances, that *does* seem odd. Much more reasonable to make the change when you go away to school and take on all sorts of new responsibilities anyway. (In my kids' cases, that will be only just after they turn 18 anyway, so a distinction without a difference.) --Helen |
#89
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teenager breaking curfew
enigma wrote:
Nan wrote in [snip] Realizing their own sleep needs is fine. I'm not talking about setting a bedtime... I'm talking about when I think they should be home and not out running around late. are most teenagers really stupid or something? i was 17 when i went away to college. i did not stay up all night, well, except for one time a couple friends & i decided that walking to Newmarket was an interesting idea... that did take all night to get there & back. most nights i was in my room before 11pm, & in bed before midnight (& i'm a night person). a few nights i stayed at the library until it closed at 1am. is that *really* so unusual, or is it just that the party types get more press? I think possibly by the time you get to school leaving age - whether that means going to college or to a job - the hours you and your friends need to be up by vary a lot. When you're at school, you and your friends have to be school at roughly the same time, so you would expect to finish socialising at roughly the same time. But once you start jobs: well I had jobs where I had to be there at 8am, and I had jobs where I had to be there at 9.30am. Big difference in the time I needed to go to bed. Also at college: some people were scheduled for several hours a day of lectures and lab work, whereas others were scheduled for about six hours a week. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#90
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teenager breaking curfew
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote: Basically I think that by the time they are 18, all these issues should have been worked out, or else the parents and young adult should be talking about it. It is no longer the kind of thing where you say 'no, you can't go out and play with your friends until you've done your homework', or 'you have to be in bed by 10 because you have school tomorrow'. That kind of thing should be ingrained already. A parent should be working toward this from the day the kid was born. And if there is still a problem, then it's probably too late. The kid will have to find out for himself. Or not. We all hope that our children will be the sort who, having been brought up with proper values and parenting, will be making good decisions by the time they're 18 years old. On the other hand, there are obviously plenty of cases where it doesn't work out that way, through failures of parenting or any number of other issues. When that happens, I'm not sure it is always the case that the only solution is to declare it "too late" and let the kid learn from the school of hard knocks, whatever the cost. Sometimes you don't have much choice, but sometimes it's worth it to go all in and try to get the kid through school or whatever other short term goal that may at least make things more salvageable in the long run. There's Oh absolutely. I'm not in favor of kicking the kid to the curb if they don't make good decisions. What I meant and what I did with my own children and what they have done with the ones of my grandchildren that are older than HS is --- you want them to be in the house and be available to them to help out if they need it. And you HOPE that they will ASK if they need help. But you don't help them get these insights by making rules and punishing or restricting them if they don't obey. Mostly you are restricted to mentioning pros and cons of certain actions. no perfect answer at that point, but I don't think the best option is necessarily to wash one's hands of the whole affair. Eighteen is still a very young adult, and there's often still a whole lot of room for parents to make an impact if needed. I know too many kids whose parents washed their hands of them in early adulthood who never got it all together, and too many who made it through by virtue of parents who wouldn't give up even after they had duly discharged their responsibilities to get the kid to the age of majority for me to discount the potential value of a firm hand when a young adult needs it. (Which is not to say it's always the right strategy, of course.) The problem comes when the parent won't let go at all, and keeps pulling the chestnuts out of the fire so that the kid never has to take responsibility. Either the child or the parent has to be an ADULT. And smart enough to think through what the consequence will be or what they WANT them to be for whatever it is that the kid is setting up to do. It does take quite some time for some children to grow up. My oldest grandson decided college was too much work and came home and was living at home. He had a job, but he had no driver's license and had to be driven to where he could get public transportation. His mom required that he pay some money towards room and board, but he really wasn't getting it very well. It wasn't until she moved to another country that he decided that he really did need to go to college and then of course he had to pay for it himself. |
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