Low Income Fathers, Child Support and Economic Oppression

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall behind
in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of their
company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's not
necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued nearly as
vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation, try seeing
the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the percentage of
deadbeat dads.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's not
necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued nearly as
vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation, try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's not
necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued nearly as
vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation, try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing
of their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats."
It's not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not
pursued nearly as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket
condemnation, try seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake
out compared to the percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?


* This data is from "Advance Report of Final Divorce Statistics, 1989
and
1990," National Center for Health Statistics, Sally C. Clarke In 1990,
from
19 reporting states, percent of custody:
Awarded to husbands: 8.7
Awarded to wives: 72
Awarded to joint custody 15.7
Awarded to other persons: 1.3
Awarded to combination: 2.4

* As we know "joint custody" often means maternal custody in practice.
So a
safe estimate on the basis of these figures is that mothers get custody
between 80 to 85 percent of the time. Note that fathers get custody only
8.7
percent of the time.
* Even in cases where both parents agree to joint custody, 33% are
awarded
to the custody of the mother anyway, and even in cases where both
parents
agree to father custody, 13% are awarded to the custody of the mother.

* The Associated Press cited the fact that 97% of the persons to be
prosecuted by Maine under this child support collection law are fathers.
That statistic was provided by officials of Maine. Do they explain why
these
statistics are so out of balance between genders? Most studies of
fathers
pre-divorce show that about 66% or two thirds of them want custody of
their
children. Read Richard Warshak's book, The Custody Revolution, for a
description of some of the mistaken beliefs about the parenting
abilities of
men that result in sex discrimination in child custody decisions.
Contrary
to the equal abilities of either parent to nurture a child, the custody
decisions after divorce give women sole custody in 90 percent of
divorces.
Parents retain joint custody in 5 to 7 percent of divorce custody cases.
Only in 10 percent of all divorce custody cases are fathers able to
retain
their parental status. This loss of parental rights is not related to
any
crime or innate inability to nurture children. The loss of NCF parental
rights is due strictly to the gender bias of the Family Court system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Child Support"

* "90.2% of fathers with joint custody pay the child support due."

U.S. Bureau of the Census: 1988

* "79.1 % of fathers with visitation privileges pay the child support
due."

U.S. Bureau of the Census: 1988

* A study by the Institute for Research on Poverty at the University of
Wisconsin-Madison found that "dead-beat dads" were really impoverished
dads.
In their comprehensive study, they found that "... 52% of the nonpaying
fathers had incomes of less than $6,155 per year ... ." [18 Dallas
Morning
News, pg. 5. April 26, 1993.]
Phil #3

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued nearly
as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation, try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.


Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued
nearly
as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation,
try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.


Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

Check the U.S. Census report on Child Support. The tables show the details.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/child...ldsupport.html

"SaPeIsMa" ) writes:
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued nearly
as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation, try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.

Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.

Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

Thank you for showing which bias you are predisposed to enable.

Yet, your " conclusion " would be, well, ignorant. Sice you
appear to be too LAZY to do some research of your own, I'll
give you one, that uses US Census data that you will not be
able to ignore.

Article 1557139 of soc.men:
From: "MCP"
Subject: Deadbeat Single Mothers
Lines: 71
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:37:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:37:46 BST
Xref: ncf.ca soc.men:1557139

http://childcustody.org/childcustody...ic.php?t=1225&
start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=ee 5855a460c3505dc160
cfaad72bc7d8

D. Juan Hernandez rebuked the most highly publicized misconglomeration of
divorce data that exists--the "deadbeat dad" child support statistics. After
hearing a what seemed to be a misrepresentation of available figures quoted
by President Clinton during a speech in 1994, that thirty-four BILLION
dollars of unpaid child support was owed to custodial parents, Hernandez
began gathering reports and figures in order to validate the claim. Not
surprisingly, he could not. Instead, he uncovered a gross overstatement of
the amount quoted by Clinton, which was discounted by everyone including
government agencies in charge of compiling such data. The U.S. Census Bureau
corrected Mr. Clinton, informing him that the correct figure was 3 point 7
seven billion, and also advised him that 66% of the non-payers did not have
the ability to pay, leaving 1 point 2 billion, a thirty-three billion dollar
error that helped perpetuate a national misconception. As a matter of fact,
the U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
report a very different image of the estranged father in the following data.
First, the U.S. Census Bureau reports:

1) 90.2 % of fathers with joint custody pay all child support ordered.

2) 79.1 % of fathers with visitation rights pay all child support ordered.

3) Even 44.5% of those without any visitation rights financially support
their children.

THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES STATES:

1) 79.6 % of custodial mothers receive court-ordered child support.

2) 29.9 % of custodial fathers receive court-ordered child support.

3) 46.9 % of non-custodial mothers totally default on child support.

4) 26.9 % of non-custodial fathers totally default on child support.

DATA OBTAINED BY ASKING CUSTODIAL PARENTS:

The following figures are for custodial parents:

1) 66.2 % of single mothers work less than full time.

2) 10.2 % of single fathers work less than full time.

3) 7.0 % of single mothers work more than 44 hours per week.

4) 24.5 % of single fathers work more than 44 hours per week.

5) 46.2 % of single mothers receive public assistance.

6) 20.8 % of single fathers receive public assistance.

Bill Clinton continually used the "deadbeat dad" plank to rouse public
sentiment for his election campaigns in order to portray a concerned
parental image. Unfortunately, media coverage of statements like these and
prevailing attitudes have created a poor image for the divorced dad, when in
reality, most are doing their best to do the right thing for their children.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go. If you try to handwave those FACTS away, well, it'll
just display ingrained misandry...

Andre

"Andre Lieven" wrote in message
...
"SaPeIsMa" ) writes:
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued
nearly
as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation,
try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.

Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.

Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

Thank you for showing which bias you are predisposed to enable.

Yet, your " conclusion " would be, well, ignorant. Sice you
appear to be too LAZY to do some research of your own, I'll
give you one, that uses US Census data that you will not be
able to ignore.

Article 1557139 of soc.men:
From: "MCP"
Subject: Deadbeat Single Mothers
Lines: 71
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:37:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:37:46 BST
Xref: ncf.ca soc.men:1557139

http://childcustody.org/childcustody...ic.php?t=1225&
start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=ee 5855a460c3505dc160
cfaad72bc7d8

D. Juan Hernandez rebuked the most highly publicized misconglomeration of
divorce data that exists--the "deadbeat dad" child support statistics.
After
hearing a what seemed to be a misrepresentation of available figures
quoted
by President Clinton during a speech in 1994, that thirty-four BILLION
dollars of unpaid child support was owed to custodial parents, Hernandez
began gathering reports and figures in order to validate the claim. Not
surprisingly, he could not. Instead, he uncovered a gross overstatement of
the amount quoted by Clinton, which was discounted by everyone including
government agencies in charge of compiling such data. The U.S. Census
Bureau
corrected Mr. Clinton, informing him that the correct figure was 3 point 7
seven billion, and also advised him that 66% of the non-payers did not
have
the ability to pay, leaving 1 point 2 billion, a thirty-three billion
dollar
error that helped perpetuate a national misconception. As a matter of
fact,
the U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services
report a very different image of the estranged father in the following
data.
First, the U.S. Census Bureau reports:

1) 90.2 % of fathers with joint custody pay all child support ordered.

2) 79.1 % of fathers with visitation rights pay all child support ordered.

3) Even 44.5% of those without any visitation rights financially support
their children.

THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES STATES:

1) 79.6 % of custodial mothers receive court-ordered child support.

2) 29.9 % of custodial fathers receive court-ordered child support.

3) 46.9 % of non-custodial mothers totally default on child support.

4) 26.9 % of non-custodial fathers totally default on child support.

DATA OBTAINED BY ASKING CUSTODIAL PARENTS:

The following figures are for custodial parents:

1) 66.2 % of single mothers work less than full time.

2) 10.2 % of single fathers work less than full time.

3) 7.0 % of single mothers work more than 44 hours per week.

4) 24.5 % of single fathers work more than 44 hours per week.

5) 46.2 % of single mothers receive public assistance.

6) 20.8 % of single fathers receive public assistance.

Bill Clinton continually used the "deadbeat dad" plank to rouse public
sentiment for his election campaigns in order to portray a concerned
parental image. Unfortunately, media coverage of statements like these and
prevailing attitudes have created a poor image for the divorced dad, when
in
reality, most are doing their best to do the right thing for their
children.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go. If you try to handwave those FACTS away, well, it'll
just display ingrained misandry...

chuckle Thanks, Andre. You saved me some time looking this up and
posting it.

Thanks, Bob. You're great.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their
children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then
try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing
of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued
nearly
as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket condemnation,
try
seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake out compared to the
percentage of deadbeat dads.



Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.


Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

Check the U.S. Census report on Child Support. The tables show the
details.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/child...ldsupport.html

"teachrmama" ) writes:
"Andre Lieven" wrote in message
...
"SaPeIsMa" ) writes:
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"SaPeIsMa" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Karen Gordon" wrote in message
...
Negligent fathers are hardly worthy of having relationships with
their children whether or not they cause any other dangers.

teachrmama wrote:
Neither are negligent mothers, right?

"Hyerdahl" ) writes:
Indeed.

(K): Just that there are so many more fathers than mothers that are
deadbeats and perverts .... Count the male names in these sites and
then try to find the female ones. You'll get the picture.

The vast majority of custodial parents are mothers. Fathers who fall
behind in child support due to illnessm hospitalization, downsizing of
their company and loss of job are considered to be "deadbeats." It's
not necessarily so. Besides which, deadbeat moms are not pursued
nearly as vigorously as deadbeat dads. Instead of a blanket
condemnation, try seeing the percentage of deadbeat moms that flake
out compared to the percentage of deadbeat dads.

Do you have some data on this ?

It's been posted here many times.

Really ?
I've not seen it.
Why don't you give me a clue what to look for..
Or should I just conclude that it's bull**** ?

Thank you for showing which bias you are predisposed to enable.

Yet, your " conclusion " would be, well, ignorant. Sice you
appear to be too LAZY to do some research of your own, I'll
give you one, that uses US Census data that you will not be
able to ignore.

Article 1557139 of soc.men:
From: "MCP"
Subject: Deadbeat Single Mothers
Lines: 71
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:37:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:37:46 BST
Xref: ncf.ca soc.men:1557139

http://childcustody.org/childcustody...ic.php?t=1225&
start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=ee 5855a460c3505dc160
cfaad72bc7d8

D. Juan Hernandez rebuked the most highly publicized misconglomeration of
divorce data that exists--the "deadbeat dad" child support statistics.
After
hearing a what seemed to be a misrepresentation of available figures
quoted
by President Clinton during a speech in 1994, that thirty-four BILLION
dollars of unpaid child support was owed to custodial parents, Hernandez
began gathering reports and figures in order to validate the claim. Not
surprisingly, he could not. Instead, he uncovered a gross overstatement of
the amount quoted by Clinton, which was discounted by everyone including
government agencies in charge of compiling such data. The U.S. Census
Bureau
corrected Mr. Clinton, informing him that the correct figure was 3 point 7
seven billion, and also advised him that 66% of the non-payers did not
have
the ability to pay, leaving 1 point 2 billion, a thirty-three billion
dollar
error that helped perpetuate a national misconception. As a matter of
fact,
the U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services
report a very different image of the estranged father in the following
data.
First, the U.S. Census Bureau reports:

1) 90.2 % of fathers with joint custody pay all child support ordered.

2) 79.1 % of fathers with visitation rights pay all child support ordered.

3) Even 44.5% of those without any visitation rights financially support
their children.

THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES STATES:

1) 79.6 % of custodial mothers receive court-ordered child support.

2) 29.9 % of custodial fathers receive court-ordered child support.

3) 46.9 % of non-custodial mothers totally default on child support.

4) 26.9 % of non-custodial fathers totally default on child support.

DATA OBTAINED BY ASKING CUSTODIAL PARENTS:

The following figures are for custodial parents:

1) 66.2 % of single mothers work less than full time.

2) 10.2 % of single fathers work less than full time.

3) 7.0 % of single mothers work more than 44 hours per week.

4) 24.5 % of single fathers work more than 44 hours per week.

5) 46.2 % of single mothers receive public assistance.

6) 20.8 % of single fathers receive public assistance.

Bill Clinton continually used the "deadbeat dad" plank to rouse public
sentiment for his election campaigns in order to portray a concerned
parental image. Unfortunately, media coverage of statements like these and
prevailing attitudes have created a poor image for the divorced dad, when
in
reality, most are doing their best to do the right thing for their
children.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go. If you try to handwave those FACTS away, well, it'll
just display ingrained misandry...

chuckle Thanks, Andre. You saved me some time looking this up and
posting it.

No problem. I am but a force for good in my times. :-)

Well, not according to the man haters, but who listens to those loons ?

Andre