Allowance tracking on Palm?

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

I think there are at least two different kinds of learning to be done with
allowances. One is budgeting and one is keeping track of money. If you do
the keeping track for them on the Palm, then they are not learning the
skill of keeping track because you are doing it for them, and you are also
not making them budget.

I am indeed making them budget. My kids have several budget
categories, and I track them all separately for them. At first, I set
the portions of the allowance that go into the different budget
categories (so I get them used to the concept of a budget, but they
don't set the budget) but after they have some idea of how the
different categories work, they are free to change their budget amounts
around.

THat's only something that has come out recently - I'm pretty sure I didn't
know about that when I wrote my original post or I wouldn't have said that
they weren't learning to budget.

I will say that when I had my allowance 'budgeted' for me by my mom, it
wasn't *really* mine. I had my church money, Girl Scout dues, savings and
some other required categories, and that money wasn't really discretionary.
So I didn't ever save up FOR anything, because I didn't have but about 10
cents a week (which was more then than it is now, but still wasn't much)
extra. I remember getting a nickel candy bar (turkish taffy) sometimes on
the way home from school, but I can't remember ever doing anything else
with my allowance.

I'm not sure what separate skill you are referring to as "keeping track
of money" -- are you talking about physically knowing where they put
it? Or just knowing how much they have at any time.

Just knowing how much they have more than where they put it.

They can request
a balance from the Bank of Mom anytime, and we also go through their
totals each week at allowance time, so they have a pretty good handle
on that aspect of "keeping track".

Well requesting a balance means to me that they don't know what it is
without asking.

I'm surprised by the level of resistance to this idea, frankly. I don't

I was too actually. And I'm not absolutely against it, but I saw some
pitfalls when I read the initial posts.

carry all my cash with me, but I keep track of how much we have and
when I want to make a purchase use a credit card (we get cash back and
other benefits on the credit cards and pay them off fully every months,
so I use it for convenience and the benefits they provide, not to go
into debt to buy things). So, why would I expect my kids to carry all

I don't carry much cash with me either. When I was working, I used to keep
$100 on hand mostly in case my vehicle got towed so I could get it out of
the impound lot (which never happened) because they wouldn' t take a check
or a credit card.

I use my credit cards the same way you do, and keep track of my bank
balance in my checkbook. I wasn't suggesting that the kids carry all their
cash with them, although if they are responsible I think the skill of
carrying a bit of cash without losing it is one that needs to be gained.

their cash with them so they'll have it to buy things they want. We usually
do our shopping/errands after school, and they don't need money for anything
at school, so it seems silly for them to carry it with them. Instead of
carrying a debit or credit card, which seems inappropriate at 7 and 10yo,
they use a virtual debit card against their palm bank balances. Why is
that so odd and upsetting to so many people?

Mostly I think because it seems like an abdication of responsibility.


So how did your parents handle this? Why are you so bad about remembering
to pay them?

They were bad about remembering to pay too. When we remembered, we'd try
to figure out how many weeks they'd missed and how much they owed us. That
is what I used to do too. But why not take advantage of the technology that
exists to help us keep track of things.

I would want them to remind you that it was time for their allowance or you
to have reminded your parents. What do you do about getting paid for
work? If it wasn't forthcoming wouldn't you know and be upset? Why should
it be any different for them?

I do see though that the technology could be kind of the same as automatic
bank deposit.

What possibility would there be of having them do their own allowances on
your Palm? I think that would help them learn to keep track, so that they
would KNOW whether they had money and wouldn't have to ask you if they had
any.

They'd have to ask to use my palm to do it anyhow, so I don't see the
benefit. They do have their balances memorized anyhow; I'm the one who

Well you didn't say that before.

confirms whether they have enough when they decide to make a withdrawal.
And if they lose track, they can just ask me to show them, just as they
could have in prior generations gone to count the cash.


grandma Rosalie

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

I will say that when I had my allowance 'budgeted' for me by my mom, it
wasn't *really* mine. I had my church money, Girl Scout dues, savings and
some other required categories, and that money wasn't really discretionary.
So I didn't ever save up FOR anything, because I didn't have but about 10
cents a week (which was more then than it is now, but still wasn't much)
extra. I remember getting a nickel candy bar (turkish taffy) sometimes on
the way home from school, but I can't remember ever doing anything else
with my allowance.

This was how my allowance was set up initially (when I was 6yo). At that
time, it made sense to get me used to the idea of a budget in general. As
I got older, I set my budget categories and amounts myself. This is my
general plan with my kids as well. My 6yo allowance included 15 cents a
week for me, which I mostly also used to buy candy or sugarless gum.
I didn't have "savings" at that point but developed that skill as I got
older and started getting more money.

So how did your parents handle this? Why are you so bad about remembering
to pay them?

They were bad about remembering to pay too. When we remembered, we'd try
to figure out how many weeks they'd missed and how much they owed us. That
is what I used to do too. But why not take advantage of the technology that
exists to help us keep track of things.

I would want them to remind you that it was time for their allowance or you
to have reminded your parents. What do you do about getting paid for
work? If it wasn't forthcoming wouldn't you know and be upset? Why should
it be any different for them?

Often, my kids would remind me but I wouldn't have correct change at hand,
or I'd be busy cooking dinner or something at the time. So even with
reminders, they somehow ended up not getting paid on time most of the time.

My employer direct deposits my salary into my bank account, just as I'd
like my kids' allowance to be automatically added into their "Mom's
Palm Pilot" account. I'd notice if it didn't happen (as would my
kids), but I do pretty much trust them to just do it automatically. I
only see my pay stubs on an irregular basis.

--Robyn

In article , Robyn Kozierok wrote:
In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

I will say that when I had my allowance 'budgeted' for me by my mom, it
wasn't *really* mine. I had my church money, Girl Scout dues, savings and
some other required categories, and that money wasn't really discretionary.
So I didn't ever save up FOR anything, because I didn't have but about 10
cents a week (which was more then than it is now, but still wasn't much)
extra. I remember getting a nickel candy bar (turkish taffy) sometimes on
the way home from school, but I can't remember ever doing anything else
with my allowance.

This was how my allowance was set up initially (when I was 6yo). At that
time, it made sense to get me used to the idea of a budget in general. As
I got older, I set my budget categories and amounts myself. This is my
general plan with my kids as well. My 6yo allowance included 15 cents a
week for me, which I mostly also used to buy candy or sugarless gum.
I didn't have "savings" at that point but developed that skill as I got
older and started getting more money.

I don't quite understand the point of giving kids an allowance and
then telling them how to spend it. If they are too young to spend it
wisely, then just give them the amount you are willing to have them
waste. If they are old enough to make their own decisions, then give
them a responsibility (like school lunches or clothes) along with the
money needed for that expense, but let them decide how to spend it.
If you insist that they must buy a school lunch, then the school lunch
money is not part of their allowance.

Our 7-year-old son gets a $7 monthly allowance from his grandmother,
so we don't have to remember it. He saves most of the money, except
for an occasional splurge on Harry Potter trading cards, and a weekly
popsicle from the ice cream truck. Sometimes when he's in Marini's
(the local candy store) he'll spend $2 on a 1/4-lb of candy. He only
eats one pice of cnady a day, so it lasts him a while. He says he's
saving up for something, but he doesn't know what yet.

We also allow our son to have the school lunch once a week. The $2
for the lunch is not part of his allowance---it is lunch money that he
has no control over (other than choosing which day of the week he'll
have the school lunch).


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

In article ,
Kevin Karplus wrote:

This was how my allowance was set up initially (when I was 6yo). At that
time, it made sense to get me used to the idea of a budget in general. As
I got older, I set my budget categories and amounts myself. This is my
general plan with my kids as well. My 6yo allowance included 15 cents a
week for me, which I mostly also used to buy candy or sugarless gum.
I didn't have "savings" at that point but developed that skill as I got
older and started getting more money.

I don't quite understand the point of giving kids an allowance and
then telling them how to spend it. If they are too young to spend it
wisely, then just give them the amount you are willing to have them
waste. If they are old enough to make their own decisions, then give
them a responsibility (like school lunches or clothes) along with the
money needed for that expense, but let them decide how to spend it.
If you insist that they must buy a school lunch, then the school lunch
money is not part of their allowance.

I wanted my kids to learn, right from the start, to set aside some of
their money for charitable giving and some for purchasing gifts for
others. I wanted them to experience the power of saving. So, when I
started giving them allowance at 5yo, I originally conditioned it on
them setting aside a certain portion for charitable giving, a certain
portion for gifts, a certain portion for savings (to be saved up for
any item of their choice worth $5 or more) and the rest was theirs to
spend without restrictions. By your definition, on the free money was
really their allowance, but they got to decide what charities to give
their money to and had the fun of choosing and buying their own gifts for
their grandparents and others for Chanukah and sometimes other
occasions. They also had fun choosing what to save for, and seeing how
their small weekly amount could grow quickly when saved.

Now they get a larger amount (currently $4/week for each of them) which
they apportion as they see fit. They could choose to blow it all on
candy or Harry Potter cards, but they don't. They continue to contribute
a sizeable chunk of their allowance ($1 each, currently) to charity.
One continues to budget for gifts, while the other chooses to make gifts
and have more free money. They both also set aside some money each week
for medium-term savings.

Yes, I could have originally just given them $20 to spend at Chanukah
time, instead of forcing them to save part of their allowance each
week, and they would have had the same fun, but not the pride of being
able to say that they bought the gifts "with their own money" because
they did see it as *their* money even though it was given with
strings.

So, for us, it works to help encourage the money values we want them
to learn by first giving them an allowance with strings to "practice"
those values, and then when they have gained sufficient experience,
giving them full control. They also learn to use a budget with multiple
categories, a skill that I hope will serve them later in life.

--Robyn

You could track the allowances in Quicken, and run "Pocket Quicken" on
your Palm. I haven't used this, but it supposedly lets you synchronize
back and forth between the Palm and the desktop, entering transactions
on either. An advantage of this could be that your children could be
able to monitor their "account balances", get printouts of their
transactions, and generally manage their money, without needing to get
the information from you every time. (Assuming that they have access to
the desktop computer. Even if you don't want to give your children
access to the computer with the accounts, you could still periodically
give them printed "account statements".)

Actually, this sounds pretty good to me. I might well try this, when my
children are old enough.

David desJardins

Kevin Karplus writes:
I don't quite understand the point of giving kids an allowance and
then telling them how to spend it.

I sure do. Children learn mostly by habit, and experience. I don't see
how giving them money and telling them how to spend it is any different
from giving them food and telling them how to eat it, or giving them
clothes and telling them how to wear them, or giving them videos and
telling them when they can watch them. Etc., etc.

A common example is giving children money which is designated for them
to give to charity. Now, I can imagine the principled point of view
that says that children should have total independence in spending their
own money, and if they don't discover any virtue in giving to charity,
that's up to them. Nevertheless, I think it's also perfectly reasonable
for someone who has a belief in charitable giving to think that it's not
necessarily something that children will discover and value all by
themselves, and that teaching them to do it by having them do it is a
perfectly reasonable approach, too.

We also allow our son to have the school lunch once a week. The $2
for the lunch is not part of his allowance---it is lunch money that he
has no control over (other than choosing which day of the week he'll
have the school lunch).

This seems exactly the same as "giving [him] an allowance and telling
[him] how to spend it", except that you decide not to call it an
"allowance". Isn't that a purely semantic distinction?

David desJardins

In article ,
David desJardins wrote:

Kevin Karplus writes:
I don't quite understand the point of giving kids an allowance and
then telling them how to s


We also allow our son to have the school lunch once a week. The $2
for the lunch is not part of his allowance---it is lunch money that he
has no control over (other than choosing which day of the week he'll
have the school lunch).

This seems exactly the same as "giving [him] an allowance and telling
[him] how to spend it", except that you decide not to call it an
"allowance". Isn't that a purely semantic distinction?



I have a different question about this: if he were to decide to pack a
lunch or just not eat lunch, could he keep the $2?

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:06:12 EDT, David desJardins
wrote:

You could track the allowances in Quicken, and run "Pocket Quicken" on
your Palm. I haven't used this, but it supposedly lets you synchronize
back and forth between the Palm and the desktop, entering transactions
on either. An advantage of this could be that your children could be
able to monitor their "account balances", get printouts of their
transactions, and generally manage their money, without needing to get
the information from you every time. (Assuming that they have access to
the desktop computer. Even if you don't want to give your children
access to the computer with the accounts, you could still periodically
give them printed "account statements".)

Actually, this sounds pretty good to me. I might well try this, when my
children are old enough.

David desJardins
This is actually a really good thing to consider. It will teach them
basic accounting skills and Quicken can run various reports that will
help them see their progress toward goals and things. If you haven't
used quicken, the screens look just like a checkbook register. You can
set up a specific account for them and give them their own categories to
organize their expenditures. Quicken is a good tool as they get older
to foster financial independence.

Hmm, I think I'm sold on doing it this way. It will also provide a
springboard for family finance discussions.

Karen

In article , David desJardins wrote:
We also allow our son to have the school lunch once a week. The $2
for the lunch is not part of his allowance---it is lunch money that he
has no control over (other than choosing which day of the week he'll
have the school lunch).

This seems exactly the same as "giving [him] an allowance and telling
[him] how to spend it", except that you decide not to call it an
"allowance". Isn't that a purely semantic distinction?

Yes, it is a purely semantic distinction. To our way of thinking, his
allowance consists solely of his discretionary funds, not expenses
that we have that he has some say in.

The examples people have given of encouraging the habit of charitable
giving are good. Currently the only charitable giving my son
participates in is giving some of my change to street musicians,
though I give a substantial proportion of my salary to charities.
I'll have to think about ways to teach him charitable donation.



--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

Carol Hulls wrote in :

We use a variation of this in our household. The bank of Mom and Dad
has issued each child a virtual credit card. The limit is their
weekly allowance and the card must be paid off each week. So if a

I'm a bit behind on reading mkm, but this is a really good idea. I'll
have to see if I can adapt it for use in our family.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three