THE ROD...the petition....

You and your various cronies, and
it seems you are down to about two

The WYSIWYG theory on politics?
Come on, Kane, even I think you know better.
If you went to a Socialist convention and
see Socialists all around you, would you
REALLY think that was the dominant view?

I have actually asked several people NOT
to back me up, Kane. Can you guess why?

and one of those seems to avoid you,

Point the finger. You know you want to!

have a habit of assuming, I guess because
you have the problem, that everyone thinks
and believes in absolutes.

You're the one proposing removing parental perogative to spank.

I've made it plain before that I am not happy
with any persons that use their religion
(often misinterpeting it badly) as a rationale
for abuse of children.

So what? Who does that statement serve?
Are you trying to conceal your atheist bias and zeal?
When you say "not happy" you severely understate.
Tell the truth about what your atheism means, Kane.

The others, they and I live in peace with each other.

Playing violins?

And we might just lend each other a hand
to remove the millenniums of evil child
rearing practices.

Megalomania and imposition from a minority.
You actually shame your own cause by
being such a rabid extremist.

Imagine...all of use working together regardless of
our ethnicity, religion, class or status...

You're a better liberal than the other liberals.
Ultraliberal. Tokenizing and patronizing.
Some of those minorities you tokenize don't
want to be patronized.

just to make YOU a victim.

Funny! Your delusion is just to intimidate??

Didn't that just get yah in the cajones? R R R R R

Yes, can't you tell by my involuntary laughter?

I doubt that it proposes banning just
use of implements, because that's already
banned in most states.

No, I found nothing on the website in question,
that "banned" anything or advocated banning
except this lovely "train up a child" instrument.

Why do I care what's on some nutty web site?
Is it YOUR web site?
Whose web site, exactly, is it?
By that I mean what individual or organization
runs it? Who is behind the "front"?

I did see a gentle plea for an end to
abuse of children though.

So it IS a web site run by a no-spank zealot
for propaganda purposes isn't it?

Actually the use of implements is NOT banned
in most states. It's about 50 50 last I heard.
Check out the states that allow paddling in
schools.

Please cite statistics.
Biased, authoritative or both.

My bet is The Rod already is included
in the array of scholarly
instructional tools at some schools.

Like the one you have?
Or to be used on kids in an elementary school?

My old school had a paddle on display,
long after it was not legal to use.

Owning it and using are not the same thing,
wouldn't you agree, Kane?



Are you going to find a way to enforce
"Honor thy Father and Mother"?

Greg expands:
I'm asking about what CPS can do to reverse the
undermining of parental authority with their children?
What can CPS do to end children who reject authority?
What can CPS do to put parents back in charge
after CPS undercuts parental authority?

How is undercutting parental authority and
giving kids this idea that "the state" is the
boss over how the parents raise kids, how is
THAT good for making future Democratic citizens?



I value religion in many ways.

The opiate of the masses, right, Kane?

Or do you just USE religion when it's
convenient to your fanatacism?

I value religion in many ways.

Like you'd value a bug in a jar, eh?


I do not beat my wife and never have.

How is he doing?

Greg Hanson wrote:

How is undercutting parental authority and
giving kids this idea that "the state" is the
boss over how the parents raise kids, how is
THAT good for making future Democratic citizens?
------------------------------------
It shows children that they are valued and have rights
that are protected by the Majority, even if they are
unlucky enough to be born to complete criminally abusive
assholes as their parents.

It prevents children from imagining that the People's
State tacitly supports all the vicious abusive crap
their asshole parents pull, so that they don't confuse
the rest of us with their parents when they grow up
dominated by hate and fantasies of vegeance against
their parents.

It also gives them a knowledge of where to go if they are
being abused, they can call a ****ing cop, like any of
the rest of us!

The Democratic Majority and its Rule of Law is more important
than the stupid imaginary "Family" of your sick Fundy religious
fables.

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!
Steve

sick Fundy religious fables.

I'm a deliberate agnostic.

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Democratic People's State?

Sorta like The People's Republic of China?

What you described is not Democratic Freedom,
but something even MORE intrusive than
Stalinist/Leninist Communism.

And you sound like that's a good thing.

Except that even the USSR at it's best/worst
never tried to do what you propose.

Are you a Marxist, Steve? Or a Socialist?

You actually wrote like the mother state
is SUPERIOR to parents.

I can't WAIT to see what the moderate
non-spankers think about this!

Maybe the moderates WILL revolt against
your extremism?

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!


Franz Kafka/George Orwell/Creche Babies/STATE as parent/
Socialism/Socialist/rabid/kooky/Berkleyesque/PARENS PATRIAE

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
You and your various cronies, and
it seems you are down to about two

The WYSIWYG theory on politics?

What has that to do with the only portion of my post you left
attributed?

Come on, Kane, even I think you know better.
If you went to a Socialist convention and
see Socialists all around you, would you
REALLY think that was the dominant view?

No, but I have a hunch you would.

I have actually asked several people NOT
to back me up, Kane. Can you guess why?

No, child, why?

and one of those seems to avoid you,

Point the finger. You know you want to!

No. No I don't.

have a habit of assuming, I guess because
you have the problem, that everyone thinks
and believes in absolutes.

You're the one proposing removing parental perogative to spank.

Dimwit. In fact I'm sometimes just a little guilty feeling because I
don't lobby for such laws...but then I don't want them. And I said so.

Where have I proposed removing the parental perogative to spank?

Point to the request for laws made by me.

I've made it plain before that I am not happy
with any persons that use their religion
(often misinterpeting it badly) as a rationale
for abuse of children.

So what?

To point out your are lying again?

Who does that statement serve?

You just tried to suggest I was abandoning athiesm. It serves to set
you straight on both that and my actually stand on religion and
spanking.

Are you trying to conceal your atheist bias and zeal?

No. What an odd thing to say to someone that has announced my atheism
in this ng more than once.

When you say "not happy" you severely understate.

You can read. I'm delighted, but you cannot read minds. What I would
like to do, and what I actually do, as is so in normal human beings,
are often far apart.

I have the knowledge and experience to think that laws might do harm
on this issue. Since I believe that it is congruent for me to urge
people strongly to consider a voluntary solution. I use more than one
way to do that.

Tell the truth about what your atheism means, Kane.

Okay...yah got me. I'll fess'up.

My atheism means that I don't believe in fairies, goblins, or old
white men with beards, running the universe. I believe that those that
do simply cannot cope with two things...the unknown, and their own
mortality.

And just to give you something to chew on, since I think this is the
whole thing, I would like to treat children with dignity, respect, and
gentleness so they may grow up to see a benevolent universe where they
are not victims.

And of course will kill the first son of a bitch like you that tries
to manipulation and exploit them.

The others, they and I live in peace with each other.

Playing violins?

That clearly reflects the difference you and I have about the nature
of the universe. You looooove to wallow, along with your cronies that
helped you write this, R R R R, in a nasty brutish universe. I don't.
I believe it's what we make it, hence I am the natural enemy of you
assholes.

And it's Classical Guitar for me thanks.

And we might just lend each other a hand
to remove the millenniums of evil child
rearing practices.

Megalomania and imposition from a minority.

That is exactly what you and your kind have been up to regarding
children for millenia. You have imposed your will on them without
reason, much to the deteriment of humankind.

You actually shame your own cause by
being such a rabid extremist.

Stealin' my stuff again?

And Greegor, tell him to move his hand higher up your ass, you are one
sorry sock puppet.

Imagine...all of use working together regardless of
our ethnicity, religion, class or status...

You're a better liberal than the other liberals.

Since I'm not one that counts as yet another attempt to hide your
bigotry.

Ultraliberal.

Nice try...no cigar.

Tokenizing

Who do I tokenize? Point out the words I used.

and patronizing.

Of you? Of course. You're a dangerous psychologically arrested child.

Some of those minorities you tokenize don't
want to be patronized.

Which minorities am I tokenizing and how did you manage to go off
topic in this particular direction?

Are you sure it's not you idiots that do NOT understand children and
force your own sick bias on them hate to be caught at your games?

just to make YOU a victim.

Funny! Your delusion is just to intimidate??

It pleases me that you are amused. You need to lighten up.

What is my delusion and how am I attempting to intimidate?

And why do you use two question marks? And if the moon isn't green
cheese why isn't it Riccota?

Didn't that just get yah in the cajones? R R R R R

Yes, can't you tell by my involuntary laughter?

You laugh when you get a woody? Okay, if you say so.

I doubt that it proposes banning just
use of implements, because that's already
banned in most states.

No, I found nothing on the website in question,
that "banned" anything or advocated banning
except this lovely "train up a child" instrument.

Why do I care what's on some nutty web site?

Why would you make claims about it if you do not care?

Is it YOUR web site?

No. It would be inconsistent in it's other parts with my beliefs for
it to be mine.

Whose web site, exactly, is it?

The people that put it up I think identify themselves.

Why are you suddenly so interested in a website you don't care about?

By that I mean what individual or organization
runs it? Who is behind the "front"?

I've no idea. The owner of the website has communicated with me but of
course this being a virtual world I can't be sure of anything. Let's
just say I had to go on "faith."

I did see a gentle plea for an end to
abuse of children though.

So it IS a web site run by a no-spank zealot
for propaganda purposes isn't it?

Have you asked the owners of the web site? I find it very much in
keeping with kind and loving parents thinking.

What is it about spanked people that when they are adults they hate
and fear those that do no with to spanking and try to influence others
not to?

We just terrify you. And we are zero threat to you, except in the
maintenance of your facade of madness.

Actually the use of implements is NOT banned
in most states. It's about 50 50 last I heard.
Check out the states that allow paddling in
schools.

Please cite statistics.

You made the original claim, then cut it from this post. YOU site the
stats to support YOUR poitions.

Biased, authoritative or both.

As I said. ...

My bet is The Rod already is included
in the array of scholarly
instructional tools at some schools.

Like the one you have?

The very same one I'd suppose. I hadn't heard there were other models.

Or to be used on kids in an elementary school?

Why are you going on and on with such babble?

My old school had a paddle on display,
long after it was not legal to use.

We keep other medieval instruments of torture in museums and in the
tours of old castles in Europe in their doungeon keeps.

Owning it and using are not the same thing,
wouldn't you agree, Kane?

Yep. Do you agree that those that own it can use it if they choose?


Are you going to find a way to enforce
"Honor thy Father and Mother"?

Greg expands:

The sockpuppet exands with it's hand up Greegor's ass:

I'm asking about what CPS can do to reverse the
undermining of parental authority with their children?

No you aren't. You were babbling about me finding a way to enforce one
of the Ten Commandments...hardly something I'd even be interested
in...and it's total nonsense. Children who are honored learn to honor
their parents quiet easily.

Normal humans are like that. It becomes much harder after a generation
or so of brute force parenting.

What can CPS do to end children who reject authority?

Nothing. That's not their mandate. If you want it to be lobby your
state lawmakers for the money and staff.

What can CPS do to put parents back in charge
after CPS undercuts parental authority?

Have them first attend some training so they understand the truth
about child development instead of the stupid brutal
misinterpretations of far too many parents. We watched you crow about
disrupting such a class because you ran into concepts that terrified
your sick little overcontrolling narcissistic mind.

How is undercutting parental authority and
giving kids this idea that "the state" is the
boss over how the parents raise kids, how is
THAT good for making future Democratic citizens?

It's the only choice left to stop the erosion of the basis for
democracy. If you have citizens that are brutes, that themselves have
been taught volent control of others is the way to go politically, you
will grow an authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy.

If we have a 90% rate of spanking in this country I can understand
some of the trouble we get ourselves into. And the complaints of the
blind about "government taking over etc. blah blah blah."

Of course it is. Spanked children grow up to become Enron and Ultra
conservative right wing fundies.

Gently raised children grow up to be classic conservatives.

I value religion in many ways.

The opiate of the masses, right, Kane?

Could you get a bit stupider?

Or do you just USE religion when it's
convenient to your fanatacism?

I value religion in many ways.

Like you'd value a bug in a jar, eh?

Why yes, you can? Excellent.

I do not beat my wife and never have.

How is he doing?

Naw, Greeg's not that good.

Kane

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
sick Fundy religious fables.

I'm a deliberate agnostic.

Get used to it. He blames missionaries for the fact that Indians
like myself don't have sex with our children. (And then he cites
missionaries as evidence that we once did!)

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Democratic People's State?

Sorta like The People's Republic of China?

What you described is not Democratic Freedom,
but something even MORE intrusive than
Stalinist/Leninist Communism.

And you sound like that's a good thing.

Except that even the USSR at it's best/worst
never tried to do what you propose.

The US did it to Indians for a while, until the ICWA (Indian Child
Welfare Act).

Are you a Marxist, Steve? Or a Socialist?

He's an admitted Marxist. From what I've read of him, his favorite
Marx is Groucho.

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
sick Fundy religious fables.

I'm a deliberate agnostic.

Naw, it's obvious you were an accident.

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Democratic People's State?

Sorta like The People's Republic of China?

No...Nothing like that at all.

What you described is not Democratic Freedom,
but something even MORE intrusive than
Stalinist/Leninist Communism.

Now you are miles away. Why not google on his addy and find out what
he IS talking about before you further embarrass yourself.

And you sound like that's a good thing.

Because you don't know what you are talking about.

I think that's because you are caught up in the alternative to
Marxism, the Gigolo Politic Republic of One Greegor The Whore.

Except that even the USSR at it's best/worst
never tried to do what you propose.

No, because it wasn't communist. That was a name, not a system.

Are you a Marxist, Steve? Or a Socialist?

You just ask questions instead of find out for yourself. Does that
give your narcissistic balls a twinge?

You actually wrote like the mother state
is SUPERIOR to parents.

He did no such thing. He wrote that the parents are NOT allowed to
abuse the children or the state steps in. Which is exactly what we
have now. Are you calling the US a communist state?

I can't WAIT to see what the moderate
non-spankers think about this!

Gosh, that leaves me out then.

But I think you over estimate the number of "moderate" non-spankers
there are. We tend, the lot of us, to be rather adamant that there is
no such thing as a little bit spanked.

Maybe the moderates WILL revolt against
your extremism?

Stop slavering. We can disagree on some things and not on others. We
aren't caught up in your single track mind nonsense.

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!


Franz Kafka/George Orwell/Creche Babies/STATE as parent/
Socialism/Socialist/rabid/kooky/Berkleyesque/PARENS PATRIAE

Wow! Such an erudite outpooring. He said no such thing. What he said
is basically the intent of the US and the States.

Hell, it saved that little girl from you, didn't it?

bingo bango bongo

R R R R

Stoneman

Greg Hanson wrote:

sick Fundy religious fables.

I'm a deliberate agnostic.
--------------------
Won't work, Rightists who pretend atheism/agnosticism still rattle
on with religious dogma disguised as secular politic. Transparent.


The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Democratic People's State?
-------------
Yes.


Sorta like The People's Republic of China?
--------------
In a fun-house mirror only. It's not Democratic.
It's not Communist, it's not even a Republic,
must be the Liars Govt of China.


What you described is not Democratic Freedom,
------------------
Of course it is, you Ass.


but something even MORE intrusive than
Stalinist/Leninist Communism.
---------------------
God, I hope so.


And you sound like that's a good thing.
-------------------------
I want to live in what I describe.


Except that even the USSR at it's best/worst
never tried to do what you propose.
--------------------------
They were another Liar's Govt of Russia.
They did precisely NONE of what I promote,
and a bunch of things that OPPOSED what I promote!


Are you a Marxist, Steve? Or a Socialist?
-------------------------
Neither, I'm a Communist.


You actually wrote like the mother state
is SUPERIOR to parents.
-------------------------
****, that's true HERE!


I can't WAIT to see what the moderate
non-spankers think about this!
---------------------------
Won't matter.


Maybe the moderates WILL revolt against
your extremism?
------------------------------
Moderates don't revolt, that's WHY they're "moderate", you
forgot that!


The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Franz Kafka/
-------------
Unrelated.


George Orwell/Creche Babies/STATE as parent/
------------------------------
Adults should raise the Society's children collectively.


Socialism/Socialist/rabid/kooky/Berkleyesque/PARENS PATRIAE
------------------------------------
Verbal nonsense.
Steve

MIB529 wrote:

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
sick Fundy religious fables.

I'm a deliberate agnostic.

Get used to it. He blames missionaries for the fact that Indians
like myself don't have sex with our children. (And then he cites
missionaries as evidence that we once did!)

The "Family" can fall apart, get divorced, abuse you, but the
Democratic People's State can and will protect you from the
random bad luck of being subjected to the idiots in your "Family"!

Democratic People's State?

Sorta like The People's Republic of China?

What you described is not Democratic Freedom,
but something even MORE intrusive than
Stalinist/Leninist Communism.

And you sound like that's a good thing.

Except that even the USSR at it's best/worst
never tried to do what you propose.

The US did it to Indians for a while, until the ICWA (Indian Child
Welfare Act).

Are you a Marxist, Steve? Or a Socialist?

He's an admitted Marxist. From what I've read of him, his favorite
Marx is Groucho.
--------------------
No, I'm a Communist.
Marx was one writer, and his was not the only kind of Communism.

For future reference, I believe in "Universal rightful home possession,
and from each according to his labor hours, to each according to his
labor hours, adjusted democratically by equally distributed collective
social costs required for a decent society."
Steve

MIB529 wrote:

Get used to it. He blames missionaries for the fact that Indians
like myself don't have sex with our children. (And then he cites
missionaries as evidence that we once did!)
------------------------
They saw it, so did others.
Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message ...
MIB529 wrote:

Get used to it. He blames missionaries for the fact that Indians
like myself don't have sex with our children. (And then he cites
missionaries as evidence that we once did!)
------------------------
They saw it, so did others.

But you can't cite a source you yourself don't respect, Steve.

What 'others'? These anonymous 'anthropologists' you love citing?