A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Friendship problem for my 9 year old



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old June 2nd 07, 10:27 PM posted to misc.kids
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:18:48 GMT, "Stephanie" wrote:

Not all shelters are motivated so much by lack of sympathy for battered men
but by the difficulties of serving both communities. I was positively
*amazed* the lengths to which batterers would go to get access to their
victims when I worked at a women's shelter. It can be a simple measure of
protection.


ITA! I had to spirit one client and her kids away during the night
once her husband attempted to breach our security. Terribly
frightening.

I agree that there is more of a stigma around being a battered man that
prevents them from getting help though.


The thinking seems to be that men have more resources available to
them. That may or may not be true in all cases.

Nan

  #42  
Old June 2nd 07, 10:29 PM posted to misc.kids
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:16:22 -0700, Vickie
wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:55 pm, Chris wrote:


It makes TOTAL sense Vickie. You have certainly went above and beyond
as it is.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Oh, good. That helps immensely. I have a terrible time with guilt
sometimes and it helps to know some would do the same as I, or at
least that it make some sense.

Vickie


I really commend your efforts. Hopefully the mother will receive some
intensive counseling and will make sure her daughter gets the help she
needs, too.

Nan

  #43  
Old June 2nd 07, 11:48 PM posted to misc.kids
Aula
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 112
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old


"Vickie" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think the threat of her husband is in the background now, with his
being incarcerated. She has welfare, food stamps, etc. I am pretty
sure she has called someone on her behalf for help. I remember her
saying something about being on a waiting list and going to a group
therapy session for women. I don't want to sound like I don't care at
all about her or her welfare, but I am not a close friend of hers, but
my daughter at one time was friends with hers, so that is where my
mind goes - how are the girls holding up, are they getting the help
they need.


I forgot to mention this earlier, but it should not get lost in dealing with
the more immediate issues. The husband is incarcerated, true. But he will
get out at some point and unless she has already made and implemented a plan
to keep herself safe from him at that time, he will almost certainly be
right back into her life and house. Now is the time, while he is unable to
observe or prevent her, to pick up and move quite some ways away and start a
new life. Not necessarily easy, but how hard will it be if she cleans up
her life and then he reappears? I've seen it happen more than a few times
and in nearly all those instances the woman was unable to stand firm against
the man, let him back in [where else could he go, she'd say, or he's
changed, he told me he has], and things would devolve from there. People
fleeing domestic violence can obtain new social security numbers, names and
birth dates for themselves and their children. In Vermont [and I would hope
elsewhere] there is a program they can use to have all mail sent to them
through a mail drop, so no one can figure out where they are via snail mail.
DV shelters should know how to hook a victim up with these services. Now is
the time for that woman to become aware of these options and set a plan in
motion. When he is about to be released is pretty much too late. And, if
he is incarcerated for a charge related to something he did to her, guess
who he is blaming for his current location. It is certainly not himself.
Sitting in a small room with little to do for years on end will almost
guarantee the development of a festering hate for her accompanied by many
diverse plans on how revenge will be enacted. Encourage this woman to get
her to a DV shelter, not to live, but to get services.

-Aula


  #44  
Old June 3rd 07, 04:24 PM posted to misc.kids
Sarah Vaughan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 443
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post:

Chris wrote:
On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote:


snip
So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?


Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd
actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues
sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case
(though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want
a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever
to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to
persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of
making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an
obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this
woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open
either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to
do such-and-such.

You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this
friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your
life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye."

If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might
antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being
polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do
something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter
needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but
please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out
your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter
some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts
going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope
you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks
you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do
that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she
asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If
this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the
I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to
why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives
is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her
out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her
requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to
keep asking.

DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a
fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting
it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing
something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her
behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate
sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you
are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this
way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it.
Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend
(preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be
able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to
give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right).

[...]
I would also have a talk with my
child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how
different her friend has it.


I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter
about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like
a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to
be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a
reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home
life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult
situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness
about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*.
Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up
with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and
you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to
voice any concerns she has about the situation.

Then I would invite the girl over and
have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen
eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let
the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being
mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing
toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay
and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a
bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at
my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could
offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting.


The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation
where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been
draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to
continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship
then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so
without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the
friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so.

Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl
has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship.
The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and
putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of
getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable
reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house
would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very
dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate
to put on a nine-year-old.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

  #45  
Old June 3rd 07, 04:41 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...


What Sarah said.

Every word of it.
Pay particular attention to the position that a "friendship" put upon a nine
year old girl means for her.

::no snip, keeping it all!::

Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post:

Chris wrote:
On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote:


snip
So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?


Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd
actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues
sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case
(though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want
a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever
to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to
persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of
making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an
obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this
woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open
either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to
do such-and-such.

You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this
friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your
life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye."

If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might
antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being
polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do
something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter
needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but
please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out
your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter
some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts
going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope
you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks
you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do
that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she
asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If
this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the
I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to
why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives
is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her
out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her
requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to
keep asking.

DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a
fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting
it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing
something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her
behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate
sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you
are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this
way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it.
Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend
(preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be
able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to
give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right).

[...]
I would also have a talk with my
child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how
different her friend has it.


I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter
about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like
a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to
be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a
reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home
life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult
situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness
about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*.
Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up
with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and
you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to
voice any concerns she has about the situation.

Then I would invite the girl over and
have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen
eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let
the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being
mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing
toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay
and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a
bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at
my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could
offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting.


The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation
where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been
draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to
continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship
then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so
without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the
friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so.

Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl
has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship.
The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and
putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of
getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable
reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house
would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very
dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate
to put on a nine-year-old.


All the best,

Sarah


  #46  
Old June 3rd 07, 06:04 PM posted to misc.kids
Jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,321
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

Banty wrote:
In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

What Sarah said.

Every word of it.
Pay particular attention to the position that a "friendship" put upon a nine
year old girl means for her.


I would add that this person cannot take advantage of you without your
permission. Dear Abby or Ann Landers used to say that.

Jeff
  #47  
Old June 3rd 07, 09:33 PM posted to misc.kids
Vickie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Friendship problem for my 9 year old

On Jun 3, 8:24 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Piggybacking to answer two lots of points in one post:

Chris wrote:
On Jun 1, 12:26?pm, Vickie wrote:


snip

So, here I am. I really, really don't want to get involved anymore in
this. My heart goes out to her and her children, but I really don't
want to deal with this. When the calls come this summer for play
dates, etc. should I keep up with the excuses or get a back-bone and
just tell her when she gets her life back on track and help for her
girls to then give me a call?


Neither. Well, not unless you feel that this woman is someone you'd
actually want to be friends with in the event that she gets her issues
sorted out, and I'm not getting the impression that that was the case
(though by all means stop me if I'm wrong). If you do not actively want
a friendship with this woman then you are under no obligation whatsoever
to have one, and should not hold the promise of one out as a carrot to
persuade her to get her life sorted out. That's just another way of
making her problems your problems and putting yourself under an
obligation. So, if you don't want anything further to do with this
woman - which is totally reasonable - then do not leave that door open
either with excuses or with promises that she can call if she manages to
do such-and-such.


I really don't want anything to do with this family. Just worried
about the girl (part of my personality, I guess). I feel very much
that when the ***** hits the fan* that is when I am called upon.

You can try being upfront about this: "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid this
friendship isn't working out and I do not feel I can be involved in your
life or your daughter's life any more. Goodbye."


Don't feel up to that.

If you don't feel up to doing that, or if you're worried that this might
antagonise her to a degree that makes her dangerous, then try just being
polite but brick-wall unhelpful every time she tries to ask you to do
something. If she starts the emotional blackmail about how her daughter
needs your daughter's friendship, just say "I'm sorry to hear that, but
please be realistic; my daughter is nine years old and cannot sort out
your daughter's problems for her. Maybe you should get your daughter
some counselling to help her to deal with the situation." If she starts
going on about her own problems, say "I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope
you find the help you need. I have to go now. Goodbye." If she asks
you for favours, say politely and firmly that you won't be able to do
that, and DO NOT get into any further discussion on the matter. If she
asks you why not, just repeat "I'm afraid it won't be possible." If
this seems to be going round in circles, then go back to the
I-have-to-go-goodbye line. DO NOT give her any excuses or reasons as to
why you can't help out, because the inevitable message that that gives
is that if only you didn't have to do X then you would have helped her
out, and that only encourages her to call and ask again. If all her
requests are met by a very polite brick wall, then it's hard for her to
keep asking.

DO NOT get angry or aggressive at any point. That'll only start a
fight. And DO NOT get apologetic at any point, no matter how tempting
it is. Getting apologetic gives her the message that you're doing
something wrong by refusing to help her, and thus legitimises her
behaviour. (The "I'm sorry" in the above examples is meant to indicate
sympathy, not apology.) You need to speak in a tone that suggests you
are calmly confident that you are within your rights in acting in this
way. Since you're not currently that confident, you'll need to fake it.
Try rehearsing possible speeches with your husband or a friend
(preferably with someone who you know *is* very confident and would be
able to deal with this sort of situation, because they'll be able to
give you the best feedback on whether you're doing it right).


I would have to rehearse. I am apologetic by nature and it probably
would end up sounding like I was doing something wrong. I think I
need an assertive training course. (You could earn a fortune if you
taught it.)

[...]

I would also have a talk with my
child about the reality of the situation to help her understand how
different her friend has it.


I do agree that it's worth having some kind of a talk with your daughter
about this (which you may very well have done already). It sounds like
a very difficult experience for her, and it would probably help her to
be aware, if she isn't already, that this girl's behaviour is not a
reflection on her but on the girl's own insecurities and difficult home
life. She also needs to understand that she has handled a difficult
situation extremely well and that, given the situation, her wariness
about getting involved with this girl again is *totally reasonable*.
Rather than giving her a list of things to do, I would just open this up
with a comment about how this must all have been difficult for her and
you've been impressed with how she's handled it, and encourage her to
voice any concerns she has about the situation.


Most definitely I have done that with my daughter.

Then I would invite the girl over and

have a talk with the both of them about how I know they haven't seen
eye to eye and have had relationship problems, etc. I would try to let
the friend know that while I know that she has hardships that being
mean and passing along the frustration and anger she is experiencing
toward her friend(s) is the surest way to lose a friend and it is okay
and nothing to be embarrassed about to share that she is just having a
bad day, week, etc. I would let her know that she would be welcome at
my house anytime for a break from her reality as long as she could
offer the same respect that she deserves and is not getting.


The problem with this is that it puts the OP's daughter in a situation
where there is pressure on her to continue a friendship that has been
draining on her and that she is very understandably reluctant to
continue. Obviously, if she actively wants to continue the friendship
then it may be reasonable to give her support and help in doing so
without further damage. However, if she does not want to continue the
friendship then she deserves support and help in *not* doing so.

Look at it from the OP's daughter's perspective for a moment. This girl
has bullied her and sapped her confidence under the guise of friendship.
The OP's daughter has done a sterling job of dealing with this and
putting it behind her. However, this has left her 'very wary' of
getting involved in this friendship again - an extremely reasonable
reaction. Issuing the other girl with an open invitation to the house
would put a degree of pressure on the daughter to maintain this very
dubious 'friendship' that I simply do not think it fair or appropriate
to put on a nine-year-old.


My daughter has told me she just doesn't want to be friends with her
anymore. She says she does a good job ignoring the taunts and looks
the girl gives her. But when she actually comes around my daughter
wanting her to play, my daughter tells me she gets nervous knots and
waits for the inevitable *put downs* that comes her way.

All the best,

Sarah
--http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell



I am going to email this quote to a few people.

Thanks for the response.
Vickie


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
19 year old boy having eye problem [email protected] General 0 March 21st 07 12:01 PM
Sleep problem in 3-4 year old [email protected] General 4 June 1st 05 04:01 AM
a problem with my 13-year old daughter jane_mom General 3 March 12th 05 07:35 PM
a problem with my 13-year-old daughter jane_mom General 2 March 10th 05 12:20 PM
3 year old with nap problem Hillary Israeli General 11 December 1st 03 09:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.